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What psychedelics are most likely to give HPPD

S

sushiburger

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Nov 24, 2012
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What psychedelics, if you can list them from most to least, are more likely to give HPPD?
 
Pretty much any sense-distorting drug can cause HPPD. Those that induce strong anxiety are more likely to cause it than others.

I've heard of HPPD caused by MDMA, DMT abuse, LSD, mushrooms, synthetic psilocin analogues, cannabis, synthetic cannabinoids, 2C-x series, 25X series, AMT, etc. Really I think it depends on the person's integration of bad trips; those that can more readily handle a scary drug experience without it disrupting their life are probably less likely to experience persistent bad effects.
 
2C-I seems to have a track record of causing HPPD more often than most. A hunch of mine says the NBOMes do too but take that with a few grains of salt because I'm speculating. Pretty much any really intense experience could do it though really. I believe the tryptamines in general seem less likely to cause it than phenethylamines and lysergamides. LSD has a lot of stories of people getting HPPD, though like that's partly just because so many more people have tried LSD than any of the research chemicals.
 
I think HPPD is a term bandied about far too often these days....sure, it may exist, but cripes....
 
Xorkoth said:
2C-I seems to have a track record of causing HPPD more often than most. A hunch of mine says the NBOMes do too but take that with a few grains of salt because I'm speculating. Pretty much any really intense experience could do it though really. I believe the tryptamines in general seem less likely to cause it than phenethylamines and lysergamides. LSD has a lot of stories of people getting HPPD, though like that's partly just because so many more people have tried LSD than any of the research chemicals.
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^ this in my experience is extremelt accurate. But yes all mind altering substances including cannabanoids seem to have the potential to cause long lasting or permanent perceptual changes.

I just started a very similar thread a few days ago to get answers. I want to know the same thing, as I DO have hppd, I don't want it to get worse but I do want to experience psychedelics throughout my life. I feel they are medicinal for me.

Now to get answers we must first acknowledge that this phenomena is real and is quite common. I believe it to be a side effect and the nature of psychedelics. I feel that people or naturally neurotic , worry a lot, have ocd, etc , or people who are sensitive to sensory shifts (like me) are more likely to notcice hppd sooner.

I have all kinds of friends who use psychedelics. I had a few over the other night who indulge in high dose tripping all the time (I recently dropped acid with them and I needed one tab to lose my shit, they were taking 4/5) These hits were rated around 90-100 mics each. So basically they need more to really get out there. Anyway these guys stopped by to hang out the other night and the subject of permanent visual effects from indulgence came up. One said , "no I don't know what you mean *waves hand in front of face*....oh yeah I gotcha..i do kinda have that, ya what about it". In other words ...hes non neurotic risk-taking type and he doesn't notice shit like that. Hes outgoing and social and never in his own head with worries or problms. The other guy said "yeah , I thought it was normal...its from trippin a lot, man".

So other friends whom Ive brought this up to, are more worried about the permanent visual effects. It seems that ALL my friends who trip a lot seem to have this.

Now I have one other friend who had a bad case of HPPd and still trips heavily...he sais his hppd does not worsen from tryptamines but it does from phenethylamines and LSD. I seem to have noticed my hppd does not exacerbate from mushrooms but has from lucy and 25c....not sure if I noticed after a few cacti voyages
 
I'd count on that if only for their high 5-HT2a affinities. Some are near full agonists I think, though not entirely.

IMO stay away from full agonists, for example those beasts among cannabinoids (JWH-018 is I think a prime example).
Now don't take this the wrong way, repeated / frequent use of partial agonists may cause lots more problems than occasional use of a full agonist... but frequent use of full agonists is really asking for it. It is also really asking for tolerance.
 
What about DXM? although this is not a 'psychedelic', im still curious to know.

i think I noticed it in the beggining a few years back, but now it takes a lot for me to stop and think "something isn't right here", and usually at that point its gone.
Except when smoking, ive slipped into some decently intense tripping episodes when smoking, and they are great fun indeed. Wish they happened more to be honest.
 
This question is a good one & a bit dependent on definitions. Unfortunately there isn't really any hard data on it at the moment, hopefully that will change in the not too distant future though.

Depending on what you read HPPD is defined as either a strictly visual processing disorder or alternately the visual distortions & the not terribly infrequently comorbid depersonalization/derealization/dissociation. With regards to the former, the anecdotal evidence I've come across over the years seems to point to synthetic phenethylamines (including MDMA) as being somewhat more likely to cause this, granted it's still extremely rare. I added the synthetic qualifier because surveys of peyote using Native American populations haven't found any evidence of the disorder. So it *may* be because people who use 2c-x, MDMA, etc may be more frequent users, but again, this is total speculation on my part. I've seen a couple reports where it seems lsd may be to blame, but these are exceedingly rare. Don't recall any related solely to shrooms.

With regards to persistent visual alterations+derealization etc it appears to usually be the result of an overwhelming, & usually unpleasant, experience as opposed to being related to a specific drug or class of drugs. & a substantial number seem to result from attempting to abort the experience or attenuate psychotic symptoms with antipsychotic drugs. Typically thorazine, but I doubt it really matters which antipsychotic. However this symptom cluster seems more like PTSD IMHO. I doubt a clinical distinction is truly necessary as the PTSD symptoms seem to be the more disruptive as well as elicit the visual symptoms. Again, almost all speculative on my part but I feel it's a pretty well educated guess.
 
The general consensus is that LSD is a big one? What about its pharmacology is it that causes HPPD that is different than say mushrooms or mescaline? Or is it that LSD is the most commonly used psychedelic so we have a higher ratio of HPPD vs other drugs?
 
Usually with HPPD, or any form of residual effects, I've only noticed them after binging on and psych. really. After taking acid and mushrooms almost everyday for 8mo back when I was 16, I'd say I had an intense 3 months following of visual distortions. Not like I was tripping, but I was seeing tracers, pattern shifts, things move out of the corner of my eye, ect. I really dont think it's the drug that will cause HPPD, but frequency and to what extent the use was.

Get to the point where you're eating a quarter sheet to trip as hard as you would off of 5 hit to get off then stop taking them and tell me how your next few week are.
AND PLEAE! I am by no mean directing you to do so, just saying, that's where I was at and what I experienced.
 
PEA's, at least the nbome/nboh versions.of 25-I, seem to be prime candidates for developing hppd according to my crude research. I personally began to develop symptoms after the first hit, tho I needed to be on something to notice the weirdness, like weed, at first. Now I experience these symptoms much of the time sober or not. You can clearly tell when you are experiencing these symptoms when they happen.

I'm doing a number of tests with 25-I nboh. In the subject selection process for a later test that I'm doing, 25 blotters of 25i nboh have been distributed too 25 test subjects, and 18 of the 25 report hppd symptoms, with 8 people experiencing symptoms of hppd over 3 weeks later. Overall, this group of.people, including me, have been taking psychedelic drugs.for years, primarily mushrooms or lsd, and have never experienced this phenomenon.

The more I use the 25i nboh the more noticeable the hppd like effects are and the longer they seem to persist. I don't know if I can correctly label it hppd though, as that disorder is for an ongoing and unending "problem", and the "hppd" certainly goes away when I stay away from drugs for a while, but perhaps that's my subjective experience. My wife has only taken this stuff one time and still gets little tripped out moments.

I'm currently running a test with a small group based around the effects of thus drug used daily at low doses to evaluate its worth in a number of areas, primarily to study the effects it has on neuropathic pain and depression/anxiety. The test runs 3 months and requires a hardly active dose of the 25i nboh of about 100ug to be taken every day. Ever since discovering the hppd like effects of this stuff I intend to collect data about that as well, as well as data about the after effects for a period of time after the end of the experiment in terms of both the hppd and any possible dependence that low dose repeated use may create, as my own tests seem to indicate a potential for physical dependance, tho it seems to be offset by that irritating tolerance.

I'll also report mescaline gives me similar temporary hppd like symptoms, so it's likely a trait shared by all the PEA based psychedelics. The nboh class gives far and away more of this effect.

I.kinda like it btw, tripped out forever pretty much describes my idea of utopia lol.
 
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I've read quite a number of cases of people using a lot of 25-series compounds and developing some sort of HPPD. They are all very potent 5ht2a agonists, which might have something to do with. Definitely not something I'd feel comfortable experiment too much with! I had visual disturbances, not sure if I'd call it HPPD, for a few months after taking acid every week for several months. I'd see things wiggle and squirm on the periphery of my vision, get colour blobs from looking at lights more easily and rays coming from lights at night would still have psychedelic patterns in them. Smoking weed definitely brought it out more...

I think smoking cannabis during tripping may increase the likelihood of experiencing prolonged visual disturbances afterwards...
 
All of them, pretty much.
If you take enough to them to damage your brain in a certain way.
I mean i guess there are your certain unique cases where a person will do LSD like a half dozen times and then they might be blessed with permenant visuals.
I know for a fact i've done milliliters of LSD in my life time and GRAMS of DMT, and i do not suffer from HPPD.
 
Xorkoth said:
2C-I seems to have a track record of causing HPPD more often than most.
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Snipped the most important bit, I totally agree with Xorkoth. I've personally known 4 people who have acquired some type of permanent visual distortion after the use of 2C-I (not including myself). This was almost a decade ago, we were all in our teens during our heavy use of the drug.

Degree's of severity are all over the place, one friend had to go on a lot of benzo's due to the anxiety issues. Another didn't even know what she was experiencing was abnormal until I mentioned it, just thought it was part of the lasting psychological "benefit" from the trips.

And that leads me to a further point, unless it disrupts your daily life or causes distress, why does it matter if you have "HPPD" or not? Just a few hours ago, I was admiring the afterimages of trees, and the static in the air against the backdrop of beautiful clouds and a pretty sunset. My "HPPD" has improved my life by increasing my appreciation of nature, arts and beauty in general.

I almost find it hard sometimes to go out with others (to the wilderness or museums), because my perception is wholly different. The experience is subjectively altered, for the better. Now quit your worrying and go take some drugs.
 
I don't think it matters which drug is it - what matters is whether or not you're the one in a million, or 10 million etc who is susceptible to HPPD. Most of us arn't so we can take psychedelics till they're coming out of our arseholes and feel fine.
 
Yeah I do think that some of us are not susceptible to HPPD, for example I have tripped way more times than probably 99.9% of people on the planet, many times a week for years, yet I don't have a touch of it. But given the sheer number of reports of it, I think the percentage of people susceptible is FAR higher than 1 in a million.
 
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