What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[oldskoolroller]

I know what LeJunk is saying because I remember having that quality at one time . No one is saying todays x in its on right ( most not all ) isn't a good drug , but the mdma he describes doesn't need a setting . When it hits you become the setting.

If you smoke weed think of it like this . You have been smoking some good shit for years then one day you get ahold of some cannabis cup winner strain , or you take your first dab . You hit that and sit back for a second . Next thing you know your higher than you ever thought you could get . Stoned to your bone , stuck in the couch , and to high to drive to the store high . You realize that there is a far better high to be had and the dank you have smoking is good but not grow dear antlers good ( grandma's boy reference ) .

I hope to find that quality again one day . If I do , I will buy every last dose I can get no matter the price tag .

 

[Itsgoneundertheboa]

The evidence of change in synthesis routes and manufacture is very clear for anyone who wants to look. Check out the European drug report. Seizures of safferole compared to piperanol, PMK glycidate etc. Then consider the price for a gram compared to 10 years ago.

MDMA is being made using different methods with more readily available precursors. So their is no argument that there is difference.

 

[Brenner]

The + & - MDMA Isomer theory seems to stand up well. If you do a bit of research into Ketamine its widely accepted and proven that the two different Isomers have a different effect.

 

[Mazzab]

Anyone point me in the direction where I can see non subjective evidence of how the MDP2P from safrole is structurally different then the MDP2P from PMK-glycidate?

 

[Le Junk]

Has OP done a double-blind test on this yet? (Preferably with several participants)

If not, I don't see why this discussion is even continuing

I addressed this question earlier terarc. I've tried the double blind test 3 different times now with multiple other friends. And the results were exactly as I predicted. Not a single person guessed wrong on what they took. My man, the comparison is undeniable. I'm just pissed that I received the new MDMA twice during the testing. There's a reason the mg.s are so high on this new MDMA and it's not for the reason of the manufacturers doing you a favor. It's to try and make up for something gone wrong.

My friends and I were talking and there's a simple test that anyone can take to tell whether the MDMA they're getting is correctly produced or whether it's the new crap being made nowadays.

Correctly produced MDMA has absolutely no harsh comedown. Whether you take 100 mg.s or 500 mg.s, the comedown is as soft as a feather. You feel warm and lovey dovey the entire time, right up to the point you fall asleep like a little baby. You will sleep for roughly 4-6 hours and will wake up feeling the most anti-depressed you've ever felt in your life. The following day will be filled with conversation and wanting to get out and hang with friends or just drive around, listen to music and enjoy the beautiful day. You feel fantastic the entire day.

With this new type of MDMA being produced nowadays, you will feel like crap on the comedown. You may feel confused or geeked out, almost like a crack or meth comedown. Sleep will be difficult if at all. The next day you will still feel fucked up from the night before and not in a good way. You won't want to go anywhere or talk to anyone. Again, you'll still feel like a crackhead on the comedown the entire next day. You'll spend most of the day in full recovery. Good times.

That's it. And that should sum it up for those that have never tried properly produced MDMA. Does that help?

Le Junk

 

[Bearlove]

I addressed this question earlier terarc. I've tried the double blind test 3 different times now with multiple other friends. And the results were exactly as I predicted. Not a single person guessed wrong on what they took. My man, the comparison is undeniable. I'm just pissed that I received the new MDMA twice during the testing. There's a reason the mg.s are so high on this new MDMA and it's not for the reason of the manufacturers doing you a favor. It's to try and make up for something gone wrong.

My friends and I were talking and there's a simple test that anyone can take to tell whether the MDMA they're getting is correctly produced or whether it's the new crap being made nowadays.

Correctly produced MDMA has absolutely no harsh comedown. Whether you take 100 mg.s or 500 mg.s, the comedown is as soft as a feather. You feel warm and lovey dovey the entire time, right up to the point you fall asleep like a little baby. You will sleep for roughly 4-6 hours and will wake up feeling the most anti-depressed you've ever felt in your life. The following day will be filled with conversation and wanting to get out and hang with friends or just drive around, listen to music and enjoy the beautiful day. You feel fantastic the entire day.

With this new type of MDMA being produced nowadays, you will feel like crap on the comedown. You may feel confused or geeked out, almost like a crack or meth comedown. Sleep will be difficult if at all. The next day you will still feel fucked up from the night before and not in a good way. You won't want to go anywhere or talk to anyone. Again, you'll still feel like a crackhead on the comedown the entire next day. You'll spend most of the day in full recovery. Good times.

That's it. And that should sum it up for those that have never tried properly produced MDMA. Does that help?

Le Junk

Great post and much respect - I have always asked a few things for the reports on PR - Empathy, duration, come down and next day feeling. Yes you can be taking the latest 'lab tested' 200+mg MDMA but if its shit MDMA then your wasting your time.

 

[Itsgoneundertheboa]

Anyone point me in the direction where I can see non subjective evidence of how the MDP2P from safrole is structurally different then the MDP2P from PMK-glycidate?

Perhaps stop thinking like an industrial chemist and start thinking like what it really is. Fastest route to make money, shortest and most efficient conversion. Yeh we all know that the route is to MDP2P but if the process is not refined and clean it's gonna have impurity and as keeps getting suggested their could well be some imbalance in the racemic. Shulgin did it for science. He did it properly and his process followed for many years. Now we already know changes of precursor so makes perfect sense they ain't being as careful as Shulgin.

 

[Le Junk]

Great post and much respect - I have always asked a few things for the reports on PR - Empathy, duration, come down and next day feeling. Yes you can be taking the latest 'lab tested' 200+mg MDMA but if its shit MDMA then your wasting your time.

Exactly. It's frustrating for some to assume it's just me. It's like trying to say that it's just me with regards to todays cocaine vs. 80's cocaine. But I think my MDMA comedown differences outlined above should bring some clarity to those with reservations about my comparisons. Thanks Bearlove.

Le Junk

 

[terarc]

I'm definitely open to the idea that there could be an objective difference in effects of MDMA produced via one route or another, due to isomer ratio being affected. If isomer ratio is the same though there is just no way there could be a difference, unless caused by some impurity present in the sample and not MDMA itself. I just can't buy it until I've seen some actual evidence as to what is causing the difference. MDMA is MDMA, it's as simple as that, impurities or isomer ratio differences are the only thing that could cause any difference, and if it was impurities then really it's just a source problem. Highly, highly pure (I'm talking almost 99% ) MDMA is available.

 

[Bearlove]

Exactly. It's frustrating for some to assume it's just me. It's like trying to say that it's just me with regards to todays cocaine vs. 80's cocaine. But I think my MDMA comedown differences outlined above should bring some clarity to those with reservations about my comparisons. Thanks Bearlove.

Le Junk

You may have read the posts around the site on MDMA /Loss of magic etc - I really annoys me when people assume that because I have been taking MDMA for 20+ years I have simply lost the magic. I haven't - I know the magic and I get it consistently on good MDMA (pretty much regardless of tolerance :D).

I get so frustrated with the comedown stories in this section - took 100mg of MDMA 5 months later still suffering 8(. Pretty much everything going wrong is blamed on that one use of 'Molly' 8(.

Safe my friend

Bear

 

[oldskoolroller]

You may have read the posts around the site on MDMA /Loss of magic etc - I really annoys me when people assume that because I have been taking MDMA for 20+ years I have simply lost the magic. I haven't - I know the magic and I get it consistently on good MDMA (pretty much regardless of tolerance :D).

I get so frustrated with the comedown stories in this section - took 100mg of MDMA 5 months later still suffering 8(. Pretty much everything going wrong is blamed on that one use of 'Molly' 8(.

Safe my friend

Bear

Exactly how feel as well. I keep coming back hoping that the thread titles will tell me things have changed . But I keep seeing the ones you mention . One day it will swing back and I will be happy for that generation .

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Yes you can be taking the latest 'lab tested' 200+mg MDMA but if its shit MDMA then your wasting your time.

I still don't know whether to have a quiet chuckle to myself or be outraged. Ten years ago I was arguing this point, which has now become the accepted fact, only for the 'scientists' to slag me off and tell me MDMA is MDMA is MDMA.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Anyone point me in the direction where I can see non subjective evidence of how the MDP2P from safrole is structurally different then the MDP2P from PMK-glycidate?

The argument is that in the PMK-gly syn , during the reductive aminuation of MDp2p to mdma.....some glycidic impurity affects the ee of the reductive amination (one enantiomer is produced in preference).

So there is no difference between mdp2p produced in either route...its when the mdma is produced in the next step that there is a non 50 50 isomeric ratio established

 

[Jabberwocky]

Whether you take 100 mg.s or 500 mg.s, the comedown is as soft as a feather.

Scientifically unfounded.

500mg of MDMA WILL cause a comedown nothing like a feather

Even a person with tolerance will be hit by the amphetamine effects.

500 mg will convert to significant amounts of HMA HMMA and MDA -- all extremely stimulating.

The reason the mg are so high and it seems that there is no comedown is because it is not MDMA -- it is most likely a substituted cathinone, that has dosages in the 250-400mg range to achieve an effect close to what you get from 125mg MDMA.

These substances have almost no comedown, and no day after.

Please stop spreading dis-information. GCMS tested MDMA will cause a comedown at 150 mg -- at 500 mg you are pretty much going to be cracked out for a day, unless you medicate with benzos, ambien, weed or a combo

 

[oldskoolroller]

Scientifically unfounded.

500mg of MDMA WILL cause a comedown nothpreferred like a feather

Even a person with tolerance will be hit by the amphetamine effects.

500 mg will convert to significant amounts of HMA HMMA and MDA -- all extremely stimulating.

The reason the mg are so high and it seems that there is no comedown is because it is not MDMA -- it is most likely a substituted cathinone, that has dosages in the 250-400mg range to achieve an effect close to what you get from 125mg MDMA.

These substances have almost no comedown, and no day after.

Please stop spreading dis-information. GCMS tested MDMA will cause a comedown at 150 mg -- at 500 mg you are pretty much going to be cracked out for a day, unless you medicate with benzos, ambien, weed or a combo

He said soft as a feather . While I can not confirm that I have taken anywhere near 500 mg of the " preferred mdma " , I know that I have taken atleast half that much through the night . If you find my first post in this thread you will see that I actually love the next day off of true quality mdma . I haven't felt that way since the wave of dutch super pills have surfaced . I feel very cracked out for days on that stuff .

 

[Dresden]

The ratio of isomers is 50:50 either route. The new MDMA feels like fairly weak meth with just a hint of rolling. And the new pills are crunchy and not as bitter as they should be. Using safrole as the precursor is by far preferable to the glycidate synthesis.

 

[Biscuit]

Have a read of this thread for further discussion about possible ways in which the new precursor could effect the isometric ratio of the two MDMA enantiomers produced: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/793993-MDMA-Chemistry-Pharmacology-Thread

There is no question that perfectly good and very high purity MD-P2P could be manufactured from the glycidate, but unless the manufacturers actually take the time to purify the MD-P2P properly there is every chance that by beginning with the glycidate (a substance which does exist in different enantiomeric forms), that the isometric ratio of MDMA ultimately produced could be skewed away from the usual racemic mixture produced from near pure MD-P2P.

I have recently seen government papers in which the glycidate is mentioned and it is clear that there are in fact multiple different PMK-glycidate precursors available (not just one type), all of which might produce slightly different outcomes, and depending on the chemical company supplying it, may come as a mix of different enantiomers or in other cases just one of them. These are some very significant variables we are talking about here which never before existed with MDMA made from MD-P2P, which in turn was created via safrole/isosafrole/piperonal.

Unfortunately, I think the PMK-glycidate route has just made it all too easy for lazy large scale manufacturers to pump out this "MDMA", in circumstances where their bottom line is the only concern.

 

[jredcity]

i so agree with this explanation. back when was 15 ('89) a few friends got these pills from a very strange, gay, cabdriver, who wanted my friend VERY badly and was his cabbie every night (my homie worked at a subway sandwich store so he got off at 230-300 every night). anyway he &his whole family was from nyc and his brother used to send FULL Geritol bottles of the most clean, strong, innocent looking (they looked like little viverin; no imprint, nothing. so one night he gives him like 20 or so (prolly would got 100 or more for a sniff of his undies). so that night/morning we dosed at 4:30-5 and we was siting on my other friends couch waiting ferit to com on, 45 min:nada, 60 min:nada. about at the 62 min. mark; IT COMES. on the television was one of these $ for starving Ethiopians was on and my friend















whoops, i hit the return button instead of shift. so real quick, the Ethiopian's faces got like long like a banana and my friend, J looked at the ground and pucked up three completely whole, undigested meatballs one after the other&from then on it was BLISS. so many details. but not enough time to go into. anyway I've seen nothing even close since then. yup
,

 

[Jabberwocky]

It is a common complaint in EADD. The theory is the precursor being used by the dutch labs creates a different racemic mix of mdma which while being the same chemical is producing mongy non euphoric mdma.

If you read PHIKAL, you will note that with the r-isomer that even at 200 mg there was not even a +1.

It is much more likely that the content of the pills, while testing to be MDMA by GCMS is very low dose (60-80 mg or less); and or is actually a substituted cathinone

-- after all unless the e-data results were from a sample you sent in, you can't be sure

Rest assured 6-9 hours of plur waves from 125 mg plus a bump is still available (not pills though)

Furthermore, the overwhelming majority of MDMA in North America comes from British Columbia, Canada.

 

[Jabberwocky]

whoops, i hit the return button instead of shift. so real quick, the Ethiopian's faces got like long like a banana and my friend, J looked at the ground and pucked up three completely whole, undigested meatballs one after the other&from then on it was BLISS. so many details. but not enough time to go into. anyway I've seen nothing even close since then. yup
,

Sounds like a mix of MDA & MDMA