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What is the 4th-Dimension?

psychoblast-
That's really interesting, comparing 3-D to base 10, I'll have to think more about that.
-TD
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Trance and Dance: the enlightened path to Trancendence.
 
ok...ok.......maybe the dog analogy was a shitty one and when i said "dogs see 2-d" i meant they "perceive", meaning using all senses.
I also understand having to define the word "dimension" cuz your right it does have too many connotations. I could also say plane or world but you basically know what im saying.
But instead of picking out every little detail of my theory just try to think of the idea im suggesting. Yes it was a personal experience and who was to say it was or wasnt the 4th, 5th or 6th dimesnsion. My point was that there is something out there that us humans dont PERCEIVE or sense, because our minds havent reached that state of consciousness. Yet i think we have it in ourselves to open our minds to the same state of conciousness.
I think that the sense of time is also very primitive and it is apart of our 3-d world.
Why do they calculate age diffrently for dogs, cats , insects or any other species.
Ex. Dogs; 1 human year = 7 doggie years,
Housefly; 1 human day = 10 buggy years
( housefly info not exact but you get
the point.)
Life is all about perception. I think that time is a primitive sense.
But thanx guys for all the comments
 
ok...ok.......maybe the dog analogy was a shitty one and when i said "dogs see 2-d" i meant they "perceive", meaning using all senses.
I also understand having to define the word "dimension" cuz your right it does have too many connotations. I could also say plane or world but you basically know what im saying.
But instead of picking out every little detail of my theory just try to think of the idea im suggesting. Yes it was a personal experience and who was to say it was or wasnt the 4th, 5th or 6th dimesnsion. My point was that there is something out there that us humans dont PERCEIVE or sense, because our minds havent reached that state of consciousness. Yet i think we have it in ourselves to open our minds to the same state of conciousness.
I think that the sense of time is also very primitive and it is apart of our 3-d world.
Why do they calculate age diffrently for dogs, cats , insects or any other species.
Ex. Dogs; 1 human year = 7 doggie years,
Housefly; 1 human day = 10 buggy years
( housefly info not exact but you get
the point.)
Life is all about perception. I think that time is a primitive sense.
But thanx guys for all the comments
 
ok...ok.......maybe the dog analogy was a shitty one and when i said "dogs see 2-d" i meant they "perceive", meaning using all senses.
I also understand having to define the word "dimension" cuz your right it does have too many connotations. I could also say plane or world but you basically know what im saying.
But instead of picking out every little detail of my theory just try to think of the idea im suggesting. Yes it was a personal experience and who was to say it was or wasnt the 4th, 5th or 6th dimesnsion. My point was that there is something out there that us humans dont PERCEIVE or sense, because our minds havent reached that state of consciousness. Yet i think we have it in ourselves to open our minds to the same state of conciousness.
I think that the sense of time is also very primitive and it is apart of our 3-d world.
Why do they calculate age diffrently for dogs, cats , insects or any other species.
Ex. Dogs; 1 human year = 7 doggie years,
Housefly; 1 human day = 10 buggy years
( housefly info not exact but you get
the point.)
Life is all about perception. I think that time is a primitive sense.
But thanx guys for all the comments
 
ok...ok.......maybe the dog analogy was a shitty one and when i said "dogs see 2-d" i meant they "perceive", meaning using all senses.
I also understand having to define the word "dimension" cuz your right it does have too many connotations. I could also say plane or world but you basically know what im saying.
But instead of picking out every little detail of my theory just try to think of the idea im suggesting. Yes it was a personal experience and who was to say it was or wasnt the 4th, 5th or 6th dimesnsion. My point was that there is something out there that us humans dont PERCEIVE or sense, because our minds havent reached that state of consciousness. Yet i think we have it in ourselves to open our minds to the same state of conciousness.
I think that the sense of time is also very primitive and it is apart of our 3-d world.
Why do they calculate age diffrently for dogs, cats , insects or any other species.
Ex. Dogs; 1 human year = 7 doggie years,
Housefly; 1 human day = 10 buggy years
( housefly info not exact but you get
the point.)
Life is all about perception. I think that time is a primitive sense.
But thanx guys for all the comments
 
kewl: I think you said the same thing I did, only simpler (maybe better?).
hypnotix: Humans translate animal years into human years as a way of expressing the shorter life of certain animals. This does not mean that a dog, for example, actually feels like it has lived seven years in the span of one year.
~psychoblast~
 
Funny, the recent string theories supposed to describe our universe call for a minimum of 6-dimensions. As Einstein would say, the 4th dimension is time. As Julian Barbour would say, there is no such thing as time.
How do we understand 4+ dimensions? I'm not sure we can. An ant living on the surface of a balloon lives in a two dimensional world. There is no way he would be able to perceive three dimensions--it is far beyond his limitations, but that of course doesn't mean that there exists only two dimensions. I feel we are in a similiar position.
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"...you'll get the chance to take the world apart and figure out how it works. Don't let me know what you find out."--BTS
[This message has been edited by bornThird (edited 06 April 2001).]
 
According to quantum physics calculations the other dimensions are right here we just can't see them. Although I think some of us may have like plague bearer said. I think I may have also.
 
ugghh its no that time doesn't pass on the higher dimensional levels its that time doesn't exist there at all. At least not how we percieve it here.
 
Hey Void i sent you an email about it already,but I also went into one of those vortex things. Only I came back out of extreme sheer terror. I would like to talk about these OOBE experiences with you over one of the instant messanger services.
I have been searching all over the damn place trying to locate someone else who experienced these bizarre visual disturbances,and the psyche dissociation that automatically accompanies them. I know they are called OOBEs by the metaphysically oriented,but I don't know what they are i think I'm just glad to know I'm not he only one who has percieved these things.
 
Dimension may be a mathematical construct but despite being abstract maths is deeply linked to the outside world. For example Leibniz (or Newton) invented imaginary numbers, then a couple of hundred years later they turned out to be highly important for describing the behaviour of oscillating circuits. In the early 18th century they were an interesting anomaly, now the maths is of the utmost importance in modern technology. This is by no means an isolated example, either, just the only one I can remember off the top of my head at work.
So I'm not convinced that if aliens used curves instead of straight lines they'd come up with a deeply different view of reality. In surface terms, yes, their equations would be put together differently but they'd be describing the same thing.
There is a mystery in consciousness here. Perhaps a consciousness exists that can 'see' more dimensions, and perhaps we could draw indirect inferences from the way their maths deviated from what we would expect, somewhat like the blind men with the elephant...
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If you get a tin that says "does what it says on the tin", what does it do?
 
I think one of the reasons the "10% myth" developed has to do with the idea of the conscious/subconscious/unconscious awareness. I believe it was Freud who said that the conscious mind is only the tip of the iceberg, approximately 10% of our brain capacity, while the other 90% is pretty much inaccessible under normal circumstances. That doesn't mean that people don't use 90% of their brain capacity, it just implies that the part that we "think about using" (i.e., consciously) is small compared to the amount that is running in the background, regulating bodily processes, storing long-forgotten memories, et cetera. I believe in this theory at least partially, and as a result I believe that psychedelic drugs can aid in bringing the unconscious to the surface, but I don't think that's the same thing as comparing our brains to a computer hard drive for which only 10% is being used and the rest is space that never gets filled up. If that were true, I think evolution would have made our skulls smaller than our ancestors (ridding ourselves of the excess brain mass), not larger.
And I believe the fact is that dogs only *see* in 2 dimensions (no depth perception), because they have no cones in their eyes, only rods. It's also the reason they don't see color. Whether their other senses can actually interpret their surroundings to the brain into three dimensions, I couldn't tell you.
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Harlequin
~Esta arte me encanta, eu non posso mais sair.~
[This message has been edited by Harlequin (edited 10 July 2001).]
 
Dogs do have some degree of 3-D visual capability--just look at their eyes. Their eyes, like ours, are placed so that the visual field from both eyes overlap, allowing for stereo vision. Cats' eyes are the same way. This is a good sense for any predator to have.
 
Of course you can picture 4-D space. Just picture n-dimensional space and then let n go to four.
wink.gif

Seriously, though, relativity tells us there's at least 4 dimensions, and quantum field theory tells us there's either 12 or 28. It's extremely common to consider physical problems in infinite dimensional spaces.
Recall that, by defintion, a dimension is just the least number of linerally independent coordinates required to specify uniquely the points in a space. For everyday life we usually only need to describe a position by it's spatial coordinate, which is why we're used to 3 dimensions. If you want to compare times, you treat time a fourth. You continue the process until you have the number of dimensions required to assign every possible "point" in the universe to an independent coordinate. When you determine this number, you know the dimension of the universe.
<math> OK, what I said above isn't really true, since spacetime is curved. Hence, physicists say that spacetime is a "manifold." This means that while we can describe everything in terms of orthogonal dimensions, what we really do is describe things in terms of locally euclidean manifolds which are homeomorphic to R^n where n is the lowest number of orthogonal dimensions required to describe all elements of the universe discretely.</math>
It's also possible to create more "artificial" spaces. For example, you can consider velocity as a dimension. Thus, a particle moving in 3d space will exist as a point in our new 6d space. (3 position coords, 3 velocity coords). As it turns out, this can make analyzing certain physics problems (like pendulums for example) much easier.
<math> Likewise, consider an n-degree polynomial, where n is a natural number or 0. It will the form a+bx+cx^2+dx^4+...+px^n. We can represent this as a curve in 2d space [ie x vs. f(x)] or we can represent it as a point in n-dimensional space. [with x^k being a unit vector in the k-dimension]. Proving orthogonality is left as an exercise to the reader.
wink.gif
</math>
Pretty much what people have been saying in this thread is true: Don't assume that because you can only immediately observe 3 (or 4) dimensions that that's all there is in existence. Dimensions aren't really "things"; they're really just measures.
If you find two particles that are distinct but superimposed on one another in some number of dimensions, you need to introduce a new dimension to describe the new coordinate. This is why time is a dimension. Suppose you have a ping-pong ball located at some point in space. Someone then moves the red ball and places a blue in the same spatial coordinates where the red ball once was. Both the red and blue balls can be described as occupying the same point in 3d, so you need a fourth dimension (time) to accurately describe the system.
It's normal to find dimensions confusing. Remember that two of the major mathematical revolutions of the last 150 years (topology and differential geometry) as well as a major branch of physics (relativity) were built around questions exactly like those raised in this thread.
 
actually, regarding the whole "percentage of brain we use" thing ... i read in an article in time magazine that its more like 1% ...
our brains have SOOOOOOOO much untapped potential ...
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I doubt, therefore I might be.
 
physicists have theorized that the 4th demension is time. could the effects of acid, the tracers you see, the frames that movement appeares to be in, could this be the actual slowing down of time that we are seeing?
just a thought, nothing to be taken seriously......
 
THANK YOU FOR SAVING ME!!
The odd assertions on dimensions in the earlier threads had me thinking I'd tripped over into an unknown dimension myself!
bornThird, thank you for pulling me back into the three spatial dimensions and possible fourth dimension that serve most of us so well
Belisarius, thank you for restoring my dog's view of the world - just think about it, doggie-doubters, how could a dog catch a ball or a frisby in it's mouth without depth perception?
 
The fourth dimension does not have what could be considered a normal progresssion of time.
Alright I'm gonna try to explain this as best as I can but if you guys wanna think I'm nuts after you read its fine by me we are all allowed to have our own opinions,but all i request is that you read it till the end.
The fourth dimension does not posess a sense of constantly forward marching linear time that we are used to experiencing on a daily basis here.
Everything is happening simulatenously past/present/future all occuring simutaneously and unfolding like a magnificient cosmic tapestry over there.
In the only inexorable constant that is a forver occuring NOW.
Thing is with the power of your thoughts you choose which aspect of the NOW that you WANT to experience.
I don't know how to explain this perception of space/time that is far removed from our 3 dimesional experience of linear events all transpiriong in a certain chronological order. This is a fixed plane of existence here. The matter is intransigently immutable and densely physical here,which makes things (our thoughts transform from the realm of thoughtforms and manifest into the physically tangible a slower process.
There its more like you are perceiving all the possible potential destinies that could have happnened as well s those that did and also what may all be eventually all concurrently simulatneously happening at the same time if you choose to tune into it and travel to that potential area of what could have been.
I have witnessed firsthand my other plausible potential destinies whilst during experiencing excursions over there. I have seen the good and the bad that could have been.
See over there you can become instubstantial and physically incorporeal to the extreme extent that you can pass through denser matter than yourself( such as walls,ceilings,floors,and everything else basically including other typical household objects. To access the astral plane you have to leave your body and utilize the vehicle of your less substantial body,and or the point of consciousness-but ill get to thst shortly.
Also i went on what seemed like a short astral travel journey and from my personal perspective it seemed as if i had only been gone 10 minutes,but when i returned i looked at the clock and realized to my amazement that 2 and a 1/2 hours had elapsed,which astounded me. which seems to support the idea that the perception of time is relative based on your perspective.
So that corroborates einsteins theory of relativity lol.
Also I could by will alone insubstantiate myself and tranform into 2 separate distinctly different forms.
1 a point of consciousness that has no body or limbs and just is a diminutive point of awareness suspended in the air. In this PARTICULAR form you can travel through time,and to the higher dimensional planes via NDE type tunnels.
2 a body that is less dense than the one we posess here,and does have extremities,and a torso and all functioning parts necessary for normal movement,(such as walking and running)
Although it seems that the body form is what you have when you just come out when your still hanging around the lower nonphysical planes that are near the material realm.(here) And the point of consciousness is what you get when you are traversing great distances and are visiting the higher dimensional realms that look surrealy disparately diffferent form here.
Because to get to those realms you have to pass through NDE type tunnels, in fact hilariously hysterical as it may seem transportation on the other side is governed by Nde type reported tunnels which allow immediate transit from one location to the next. In order to pass through these tunnels you have to become the point of consciousness form of awareness first.
But this is mandatory only if your going to the higher dimensional realms which have a higher spiritual vibrational frequency,cause they are in a different range of normally imperceptible light in the electromagnetic spectrum. If you stay close to the material realm you can stay in a body type form.
Although once you get to other side of one of the "tunnels" you can transform back into a body form.
But the fact that this light is not percievable with our eyes is because its part of the electromagnetic spectrum that we cannot ordinarily see. This why we cannot see them under normal circumstances.
And when you do arrive there your baffled and disoriented anyhow,cause they look like alien realms practically.
I went to a place once where I materialized in front of a mountain,and at the top of the mountain was a small rustic cottage,and quickly far too quickly compared to the physical planes regular level of transportation by foot, i closed the distance between myself and the cottage and was at the door in no time.
Then the doorway opened automatically because one of the occupants of the house had opened it, and a friendly matronly motherly looking old elderly woman with white grayish hair and who was slightly portly and shorter than myself greeted me ebbuliently as if she recognized a long lost fondly remembered companion and she hugged me and led me to the living room their was a feeling of nostaligia present duringnthe entire visit. I had the impression this was a reunion of sorts between myself and some close friends. Then i was seated at a wooden chair,one thing that sticks out in my mind very clearly was the presence of a wood burning stove in the backround against the wall! Then she went off into the kitchen,and rustled about which was very close because of the layout of the interior of the cabin,then she came back and handed me a hot drink, that was sort of like a cross between coffee and rice pudding,it tasted like rice pudding and coffee mixed,but had the thin consistency of coffee, as she handed me the drink, i noticed an older man standing at the sink and he also seemed very familiar although i had never seen him prior to that time.
So we talked and I cannot unfortunately remember the contents of the fascinating discussion,which sucks i must admit.And then I left. , I also seeemed to recognize her she seemed very familiar although in this current life i have never met these people ever,which kinda makes me think they are people i subconsciously remember on a spiritual level from other past incarnations here. But they have not reinicarned for whatever reasons of their own. Also once I had a astral journey where I ended up at the mouth of a cave,and outside the cave was a campfire,and a caucasion man with long black hair,and we had the most intensive philosophical discussion that I have ever had in my life,but just like before with the other people after I returned I couldn't recall a word of what was said. Which was frustrating to say the least,and just served to annoy me.
I once visited a place that looked like it must have been unpleasant for its inhabitants. It was desolately barren looking. The ground was a charred looking brittle reddish rock that whose compostiton remained unknown to me,and the sky was blackish. And when i was there i had no physical form i was just hovering forward and i came back rather quickly realizing it wasn't somewher i was meant to be,nor wanted to be.
Also once I went to a place where it everything looked like it was stuck in past obsolete antiquity,and medieval looking almost. I mean there were all these people walking around clad in what appeared to be ceremonial armor all brandishing ornately decorated swords and talkig about an oncoming war. That was bizarre it was like they had their own little world that coexisted alongside ours in a non local reality that was uneasily and normally unaccesible to us,but it seemd like they had their own problems just like us,and shit with their own political,and sociological concerns separate from our own.
Ive also been out and in my room and a saw what appeared to be a black hole type NDE tunnel thing floating in the air and when i looked at it it turned towards me almost as if it had percieved my analytical scrutinization of it and almost ridiculously it would seem as if it had been sentient with a form of aware intelligence as if it had noticed and ackknowledged my intent perusal. Which is what leads me to believe the universe itself is a whole gigantic organism which posesses conscious omniscient awareness all on its own and screw the foolish concept of a human type god that we formulated out of our own ludicrous notions because we couldn't imagine anything beyond the narrow realm of of shallow human experiences.
See I believe that the fourth dimension,and all the higer dimensions may be the spiritual domain in all actuality.
Some physicists aka jack saffarti,and others also believe that the higher realms may be composed of thoughtforms.Because before anyhting occurs here even it starts with thought. Imagining-Envisioning-formulating a plan to manifest it into reality=creating=conception=arrival into the physical realm. Whether it be a planned birth,a beautiful peice of aesthetically pleasing artwork, an innovative technologically advancing invention that will supersede past the current technology,and provide us with newer more efficient means of completing everday tasks,or groundbreaking milestones of innovation that will create life altering inventions that will change the face of human existence as we know it-they are all concieved through daydreaming and analyisis- which is thoughtforms.
 
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