What Does Sober Mean to You?

[SebastianSkip]

First thought: Not getting drunk or high.

But

now that I’m quitting smoking (4 weeks, no cigs, woohoo!) I’d consider smoking again, for me, not being sober. But I don’t consider the nicotine lozenges I’m using as making me not sober because they don’t cause loss of function, make me high. They’re medicinal. Eventually that’ll change and if I took them every day all day like I do now I’d probably start seeing them as part of ‘not sober’. But if something really f*d up happened and I took some lozenges to avoid buying a pack of cigarettes, I’d still consider myself ‘sober’. But not if I smoked a cig. In my mind, me smoking a cigarette would be like an alcoholic getting drunk.

It’s how the chemical is used and makes me feel not just it’s properties.

This is a good question. It’s really personal, skimming some of the replies, I see there different answers.

More...
When I take tramadol for breakthrough pain I still consider myself sober because it’s for pain and it makes me functional/normal not high.

But I stopped taking marijuana for muscle spasms at night mostly because I cannot function on weed. I’m seriously useless and high as a kite on very low amounts. Marijuana is a legit effective pain management tool and I hoped I’d find a strain that worked medicinally without a debilitating high but it didn’t happen. Most people I’ve known who use weed regularly are not as encapacitated by it tho.

 

[HJ420]

Most people I’ve known who use weed regularly are not as encapacitated by it tho.

That’s generally how substances work imho. I smoke cannabis regularly (generally on a daily basis) and it’s because I was able to find a place for it in my life. When I take tolerance breaks (don’t smoke), I just imagine that it has no place in my life. When I go back to smoking, it’s a completely different experience, but also almost always extremely positive ime. I hate to imagine that this is the case for other “harder” substances, but it is probably similarly true but with much more dangerous consequences.

 

[pigtownblues]

Googles definition is to not be affected by alcohol, or to sober up from alcohol.

For me sobriety is not going out to cop smack

and buy girl too just because its for sale

and pump them in my arm.

Also more recently sobriety for me is heading towards recovery. Tapered off the suboxone to deal with my opiate dependancy. With the help of 12 Step meetings & CBD Oil & Exercise & Music & Spirituality & Reading/Writing & reaching out & peer support & honesty & willingness, I may be able to keep up this sobriety and arrest my disease and be free from active addiction.

Dealing with depression and anxiety and some chronic pain in sobriety and recovery is just that- Dealing with it. My body tends to reject synthetic man made drugs and i rely on prayer/meditation right now to keep myself aligned and in the future i will incorporate cannabis & THC... living in a transitional house has my urine tests clean.

I never want to go back to using. I do wish to replace my 50mg seroquel with cannabis for sleep, i do wish to treat my anxiety with CBD so i can and do, i also hope to use cannabis for depression in the future.

And if i do, thats between me and my higher power. I know what it means to me to be sober.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I find cannabis to be hit or miss. I tend to find it more of a distraction (which can be very welcome) than actually something that is really effective at treating my issues. That said, I really want to try CBD soon. Seems like there is the potential of gaining significantly from it with very little potential costs involved.

Also, I will get back to your pm soon ptb. Being a little lazy with the recent holiday.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Just because something activates dopamine pathways and is therefore reinforcing doesn't mean it's a drug. If that were the case we'd have to list sex and a host of other activities as drugs.

Well, but isn't (good) sex a highly mind altering activity? Like on the same level as heroin (some say heroin is better than sex, but IME good sex is better than heroin any day in terms of pleasure)?

Love is most certainly a drug. What do drugs do, after all? In all cases I'm aware of, it isn't the drug per say but the way the drug triggers/activates various neural and bodily functions.

Even 30 seconds of skin to skin touch triggers the release of compounds like oxytocin. Addiction is all about bonding in a certain sense, though specifically bonding of an aversive nature. Unhealthy relationships are very much like substance use disorder however, they can control us, promote unskillful and harmful behavior, and generally ruin our lives. At least as much when we're addicted to our partner or the relationship itself. And there are specific neurotransmitters and hormones involved in that just like any other form of addiction.

Also, have you guys seen a kid who has a sugar rush? And that isn't a drug? It might not be a drug in the same sense as something like heroin, but as a substance it definitely can affect the body in essentially the same ways as harder substances (in the sense it creates pleasure).

IMO a drug is anything that alters out awareness, in pleasant and/or unpleasant ways.

Furthermore, the way drug affect one are well known to be significantly affected by set and setting (this is well known with psychedelic substances, but it also applies to things like heroin - heroin users are more likely to OD if they're using in unfamiliar surrounding than they are if they used someone where are used to using).

So it's about way more than just the substance in interacting with the body, but the totality of environmental, genetic, and substance related factors (substance specific factors include the substance at hand, ROA, dosage, and the like).

It's unfortunate the idea of "drugs hijacking the brain" is held as such commonplace knowledge. It's crap. Drugs certainly impact the brain, but in the sense they control you, they only do that if you train yourself to use them in aversive ways (which, under prohibition and the war on drugs, is exactly what the system encourages us to do under highly oppressive environmental factors - that's related to why I say the aim of drug policy under the war on drugs is to kill drugs users, because that is exactly what it's geared to do).

One of the reasons the hijacking theory is so popular is because the NIDA gives so much money to support related research. Why? Because that theory supports the war on drugs, painting drugs as the problem as opposed to more system environmental factors related to healthy, housing, education, employment, interpersonal relationships, etc.

Supporting the drugs hijacking the brain theory without giving credence to other theories no less (if not more) valid is playing into the hand of war on drug policy makes and drug law enforcement thugs. It plays into the stigma surrounding drug use and addiction. In the end you end up promoting things you would probably feel very uncomfortable about intentionally supporting.

The effects of drug use is about way more than just the substance being used. The experience and character of drug use is at least as much if not more related to environmental factors than substance specific or genetic.

So what does sober mean to me?

It's about way more than mere drug use.
It's about the way we use drugs, but also the environment we engage in drug use.
It's about where I use drugs, but also how I use them.
It's mostly about aversive or skillful behavior, and decision making.
It's about conditions and conditioning.
It's about awareness, and how I engage with ignorance and delusion.
It's about engaging with present moment experience instead of escapism or the colonization of the mind.
It's about willingness, effort and resiliency:
It's all about compassion, forgiveness and authenticity in the face of fear, anger and greed.

Whether I'm using a drug or not is simply not enough data to determine whether or not I'm sober, whether I have a substance use disorder, etc. Whether or not I'm sober is more about whether I continue to engage in harmful habits despite negative consequences, whether I have to ingest a substance or engage in a harmful behavior in order just to deal with my present moment mood.

Now, whether I'm engaging in a particular activity, like drug use but also other types of behavior, is what abstinence is all about. But one need not achieve total and complete ("perfect") abstinence from all mind altering, aversive or harmful behaviors to achieve abstinence related to a particular behavior. I can be abstinent from heroin, cocaine, etc, while also using cannabis, the occasional bloody marry or entheogen.

Painting a picture where sobriety or abstinence is just about whether or not one uses mind altering substances to way to black and white, and hardly capable of representing the nuances of the individual experience of existence and being. Helpful in some ways, but it's very easy to turn a helpful concept like sobriety and abstinence into something that become coercive, manipulative and just as colonizing as substance use disorder can be.

 

[pigtownblues]

I find cannabis to be hit or miss. I tend to find it more of a distraction (which can be very welcome) than actually something that is really effective at treating my issues. That said, I really want to try CBD soon. Seems like there is the potential of gaining significantly from it with very little potential costs involved.

Also, I will get back to your pm soon ptb. Being a little lazy with the recent holiday.

Ive used CBD for maintenance and for as-needed. Being in a recovery house has my focus on recovery on a more abstinence basis right now.

During heavy cannabis use i preferred more indica based / higher CBD content bud as opposed to high THC sativas too. Although that could be all in my head.
I am definitely a believer.

I know where you're coming from with it being a welcomed distraction. Self prescribed i would be using to distract me to sleep or medicate my ADD.

No worries on the PM, i'm looking forward to it. I bought a laptop and am jumping more into online support as a tool.

 

[HJ420]

<snip at user's request>



I havent had an experience like that with CBD, but I appreciate your perspective. I have noticed that cannabis higher in CBD works well for me. Sometimes I want to just relax as opposed to having a full blown mind and body experience. I think many people find that cannabis is hit and miss often because it went from one of the most unregulated substances to something that is being considered for real treatment of addiction in many places around the world. From my own observation thats what THC, CBD, and other phytocannabinoids do. They direct your mind to focus on activities that promote your health and well-being. When you consume these substances, they replace your endogenous cannabinoids (anandamide mostly), so you can get a similar feeling of a high&#157; by just working out and eating well. Thats final step to recovery imo, filling your life with exercise and other healthy habits instead of substances.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

It means not using any drugs or alcohol.

If you use kratom, alcohol, and cannabis, or psychedelics, then you're not sober and are just fooling yourself, and are just delaying getting actually sober/clean, and dealing with all the issues that come with it and living a life without drugs/alcohol.

 

[Jabberwocky]

The topic under discussion (this was cobbled together in order to keep the conversation going and respect the wishes of the original thread's creator - sorry it's kinda awkwardly formatted as a result):

What does sober mean for you, both theoretical as well as how you've been able to realize it for yourself, practically speaking?

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

Who cares what sober means. I wasted years of my life worrying about what addict means what sober means etc and it's all bullshit.

Ask yourself some important questions that might do some good instead:

Am I happy?
If not why Not?
How can I change the things that are making me unhappy?
What would make me happy?
How can encourage the prevelance of things that make me happy and reduce the things that make me happy?
Do I have a structure in my life that is going to help me make positive steps in my relationships, ambitions, business, social life, spiritual health?


Etc etc.....

Start asking yourself these questions and working on the answers and learning from them and what the meaning of sober is becomes totally irrelevant.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I really like that way of looking at things that's the kind of thinking I reference when I say it's about more than drug use for me.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

Thankyou.

Some of the comments from people (including mods) in this thread make me want to lash out and tell them that they're wrong and then I realise that I would be acting in exact contradiction to the message I just preached.

We are all individuals.....theres no such thing as an 'addict' and there is no one size fits all cure to the problem of having had abuse of substances negatively impact your life. That is about the only universal truth one will ever find in the field of recovery imo.

 

[MrRoot]

Sober means to me that nothing yoou use won’t have negative effect to your life. Although I prefer abstinence for myself but my fiancee for example uses (not prescribed) Lyrica and benzos but in the amounts that are the same that Dr might prescribe so i consider my SO to be sober.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Thankyou.

Some of the comments from people (including mods) in this thread make me want to lash out and tell them that they're wrong and then I realise that I would be acting in exact contradiction to the message I just preached.

We are all individuals.....theres no such thing as an 'addict' and there is no one size fits all cure to the problem of having had abuse of substances negatively impact your life. That is about the only universal truth one will ever find in the field of recovery imo.

Very well said again. Please feel free to speak your mind though - if something activates you, you can always share how it makes you feel and communicate that instead of just reacting to the content of what they're saying. It can be a good way to disagree without compromising your own values and respecting those of others

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Thankyou.

Some of the comments from people (including mods) in this thread make me want to lash out and tell them that they're wrong and then I realise that I would be acting in exact contradiction to the message I just preached.

We are all individuals.....theres no such thing as an 'addict' and there is no one size fits all cure to the problem of having had abuse of substances negatively impact your life. That is about the only universal truth one will ever find in the field of recovery imo.

Yes there is such thing as an addict or someone who is addicted to alcohol or drugs, or a behavior.

 

[herbavore]

Who cares what sober means. I wasted years of my life worrying about what addict means what sober means etc and it's all bullshit.

Ask yourself some important questions that might do some good instead:

Am I happy?
If not why Not?
How can I change the things that are making me unhappy?
What would make me happy?
How can encourage the prevelance of things that make me happy and reduce the things that make me happy?
Do I have a structure in my life that is going to help me make positive steps in my relationships, ambitions, business, social life, spiritual health?


Etc etc.....

Start asking yourself these questions and working on the answers and learning from them and what the meaning of sober is becomes totally irrelevant.

I love this post. Cat, you are right on. (P.S. miss you over in TDS but I take great comfort in knowing that you are doing so well!)