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What Does Sober Mean to You?

As many of you may have seen my write before, sobriety for me is first and foremost as state of mind. But a more accurate term wouldn't be mind, but being.

What most characterizes sobriety most for me is probably healthy relationships with others (re setting healthy boundaries and respecting the boundaries of others) and ethical conduct/lifestyle. A big part of my sobriety is focused on being connected with my body (sensations, healthy self image, etc). And, perhaps more than anything, it's characterized by resiliency - that is, picking myself up when I make a mistake, learning from it, not continuing to engage in similar mistakes, and moving on with my life.

Actually, what most characterizes my sobriety is presenting myself accurate to others (i.e. not just trying to pass as someone I'm not), being authentic about what matters to me, and feeling good about who I am. A healthy sense of self. And it also seems to have revolved around being held in high esteem for who I am authentically (again, not just because I've passed myself off as someone I'm not).

A lot of what characterizes a healthy lifestyle also characterizes sobriety I think. My sobriety is centered around abstinence from harmful patterns of behavior more than just drug use. Drug use may or may not (depends on the drug, kind of use, its impact on my life, etc) be the problem at hand. It's NOT just about not using drugs. Not using drugs is probably one of the less significant aspects of my recovery - it's about waaaay more than whether or not I'm using drugs, it's about the entire course and character of my life. And life is about waaaay more than whether or not I'm using drugs.
 
toothpastedog said:
As many of you may have seen me write before, sobriety for me is first and foremost as state of mind ........ it's about waaaay more than whether or not I'm using drugs, it's about the entire course and character of my life. And life is about waaaay more than whether or not I'm using drugs.
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Your entire post was spot on there, dog.
 
Also, forgot to mention, thanks for starting this thread Mgs. Always a good topic :)
 
For me sober is not running from my problems, no matter how badly i want to. It's me actually dealing with my own problems for the first time in years, and not trying to use a chemical to forget.
 
It’s actually the opposite of running away from your problems. Although sometimes I feel like I am doing exactly that when I work too much and keep seeking for multiple tasks in life. It has worked for me, for quite sometime actually. I suppose the problems find me at night when I cannot sleep.

I do get emotional, sometimes completely out of the blue. Being sober means a lot to me. I would have been dead or unconscious if I continued.
 
i know the feeling although i feel i would've been in an institution or dead if i hadn't quit, probably hugging myself very tightly
 
I think weed is much less harmful than drinking, not to mention smoking. For me I don’t think I could be as functional to work but depending on what you do and how you deal with it, it’s way better than taking any other drugs. I don’t really consider smoking MJ as harmful as some people might say. But I suppose you have to see how that interacts with your routine.
 
i agree, for me personally MJ is not an option, i cant function. but it helps so many others. I'm definitely pro pot
 
tired of crap said:
I dig your explanation mafioso. In truth I dont generally view food and drugs in the same category, for reasons you mentioned, but I feel that their effects and uses can be similar.

However, some foods such as cacao and coffee/tea contain compounds that most certainly cross the bbb and have dircet effects on neurotransmitters. And although other foods may not have a direct effect on receptors in the way a drug has, carbohydrates (broken down into glucose), proteins (into amino acids) and fats (into fatty acids) do cross the bbb and are used in the synthesis of neurotransmitters. Thus an inadequate or overabundant diet can cause chemical imbalances and is associated with a variety of disorders. IIRC that is.
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That is true, and a good point.

I would think the difference is that some foods, like coffee, contain drugs(caffeine in this case) while other foods contain components used to manufacture drugs naturally in the body(precursors).

Diet definitely plays a big role in physical and mental health, but I think for the sake of a working understanding there are good reasons for different classifications like those previously mentioned.
 
^I find that understanding of sobriety to be rather inaccurate.

I've met lots and lots of people who are abstinent when it comes to drug use, but just as if not more fucked up than most active junkies I have known. Sobriety definitely involves more than just whether or not one is using, that's for sure. Abstinence is generally the term that only relates to drug use, but it can also be used to relate to thoughts and behavior (as in I am not abstinence regarding unethical behavior, although I continue to use drugs).

I have found it useful to look at ANYTHING that affect how I feel/think - so sex, food, working out, heroin, etc - as "drugs." It helps open the door to a lot of idiotic ways our society currently deals with drug use.


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This is similar to me with cannabis, at least until I finish my residency. Frustrating, but I don't really enjoy much drinking (like, I really only enjoy it with tasty drinking food :)) and I can't use that much cannabis under the best of circumstances because it totally kills motivation to do work. But I do enjoy them in small amounts.

In general I find the language of "addict" and "addiction" to be less helpful. Same with "substance abuse." They're all products of the war on drugs. While *some* folks in recovery genuinely understand what the terms addict or addiction mean, I've seen it more used as a kind of mental colonization more than anything. The issue isn't so much the recovery community as it is our broader culture and society. There is just so much myth, misunderstanding and stigma surrounding addiction, not to mention just drug use, I think identifying with the terms does more damage than good.

But ultimately I think the most important part is whether one feels like they can genuinely identify with the terms. If you identify with the concept of addict, more power to you. I'd just hope it would be used for benefit to everyone, and often using the term just reinforces stigma - even and especially within the recovery community.

I'd recommend some books for anyone interested in these terms:

  1. The Birth of Heroin and Demonization of the Dope Fiend (Metzger)
    -super concise and easy to read, very comprehensive, basically a history of heroin use and how society has approached it

  2. Chasing the Scream (Hari)
    -really enjoyable to read, some of it is so-so but overall amazing book, hoping to answer the question "what is addiction?"

  3. High Price (Hart)
    -neuroscientist who has done research debunking the idea of drugs hijacking the brain, cool biographical sort of book

  4. The Globalization of Addiction (Alexander)
    -famous author of the the little appreciated (among the establishment at least) groundbreaking Rat Park Studies

  5. Creating the American Junkie (Acker)
    -this is a little dense, but AMAZING book for anyone interested in the early history of drug policy (so 1900~1940) and how we've dealt with "addiction" on a social/governmental/medical level

  6. Help at Any Cost (Szalavitz)
    -great investigative journalism of a large part of the treatment industry, extremely intense book, but gives one a great idea of how coercive, exploitive and cultish the recovery industry in fact is

  7. A Small Book About Drugs (Pryor)
    -gem from down under, really nifty little discussion of how mass media represents drug use, and explores the reality that almost everyone who uses drugs doesn't end up having a serious problem with said use

  8. Are Prisons Obsolete? (Davis)
    -ideas about how to move beyond the war on drugs

For the most part I've listed them in ranking of easiest to understand/more fundamental topics to more nuances and in-depth discussion.

Anyone who wants to learn about the significance of treating drug use as a public health issue, how that might happen and the real nature of our actual policies criminalizing drug users. I was thinking about also putting The New Jim Crow (Alexander), which is likewise a great book, which goes more in-depth than Davis' book I've listed into issues of racial disparity.

My one current struggle is that I seem to have become mildly depended on kratom over the summer when I was taking it to deal with the stressfulness of abstinence from other drugs while living with family. And perhaps for extra energy since I started school. I'm really looking forward to dropping this habit though. I've been organizing what I need in terms of comfort meds, medical professionals and some time off so I can detox over the winter break.

Sadly NMDAr antagonists aren't as helpful with kratom as they are opioids, so I'm going to have to rely most on gabapentin, clonidine, trazadone, cannabis and loperamide, and my mindful awareness practice to deal. But if I can use meditation to come off methadone, I'm looking forward to this experience (it's amazing what clear present moment awareness can do for the psychological craziness that is detoxing from something like kratom).

I'll be starting a recovery journal to document my experience coming off kratom. God I'm so excited to get back to the amazing place I was in after getting off methadone, in terms of the beauty that is not being dependent on anything. I really loath having to take something daily just to function normally, let alone the fucking cost of buying this krap from headshops...

Kratom's certainly better than any of my other habits, at least in terms of legality and acceptability in society, but fuck me I've gotten really sick of this.

Interesting thing I still consider myself sober despite having a small dependence on kratom. Why? Because I haven't engaged in any of the old afflictive patterns of behavior (manipulating, hiding what I'm going through, lying, stealing, etc) with kratom. Literally the only thing that changed is that I now have to take it to be able to do school work. But it will be nice to be more sober-er once I get off it again. It's a lot better than being dependent on any other legal or especially illegal opioids, but it's a still a huge PITA.

Really I just want to get back to a point I can more easily go on silent retreats and trip balls doing the felonious cactophagy thing :)
 
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Very cool! I had no idea. So little is commonly known about kratom, but it's a fascinating thing. 7-HM was pretty interesting, mg for mg very similar to oxycodone up to 20mg (then I just got sick).

I've been taking about 30g/day of kratom. This weekend I'll be just taking 5-10g/day. The withdrawal is SO weird. It's almost entirely psychological (I only now have noticed some minor physical symptoms like RLS and diarrhea), but it's crazy uncomfortable yet crazy easy to deal with. Nothing like "real" opioids, well it's only vaguely reminiscent.

I haven't gone more than one day without taking it since I became dependent, so I'm looking forward to exploring what the withdrawal is like in its entirely, but on terms of intensity, duration and seeing what helps in terms of comfort meds and related practices.

I'll definitely pick up some CBD. I want to pick up a co2 oil vape cartridge, so I'll also pick up a CBD one. How you find dosing CDB most helpful (oral, vape, etc)? And is there a strategy for dosing that allows one to get the most out of it (like once, two, three or four times per day)?

Have you detoxed from kratom before Mgs?

I have night terrors and the like from the good old post traumatic stress, so that's really what the clonidine is for. It isn't really an issue taking kratom, but whenever I have gone without it comes back with a horrible vengeance. I also am going to try and see if my doctor won't give me baclofen in place of gabapentin. My tolerance to gabapentin is INSANE, and I'd prefer not to have to take 10g just to get it to work well when I can take 30-60mg of baclofen. Baclofen is pretty amazing when it comes to dealing with cravings and getting through withdrawal.

Anyways, very exciting :)

Sorry for derailing the thread.

Has anyone read any of those books I mentioned? Eventually I want to get a job as adjunct professor somewhere and teach a class about drug use. I might be able to wiggle into teaching a harm reduction class for undergrads next fall, but I need to find a way to frame it that the faculty will be most inclined towards. The school I go to is supposedly a dry campus, all forms of drug use prohibited (it's run by a Taiwanese Buddhist order that is pretty conservative), so I've got to treat really carefully.

Maybe I'll formulate the thread in terms of something holistic... or the history and character of addiction? Whatever draws in the students, I'll do it. Maybe I'll teach the class through the school's wellness program, as first years would be required to take it. So probably something wellness related.
 
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Tpd's point on the language surrounding addiction was spot on for me. When I identified as an "addict" I found myself thinking things like "well I am addicted so..." to further justify my continuing usage, "because thats what addicts do". After I stopped identifying as such and realized that I had a choice recovery has been much easier. Further proving, imo, that sobriety is more determined by mindset than drug use.
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Ok but Im going to have to continue with this derailment from "sobriety" for a minute.

I honestly wasnt sure about what cbd was exactly - other than it relating to cannabis... So i did some brief reading on cbd, cbn and thc. Interesting stuff. Seems cbd is almost entirely genetic, where as thc and cdn can be influenced by harvest and extraction techniques.

Have you ever tried oral cbd morninggloryseed? If so how did the dose/experience compare to smoking/vaping?

Ive been playing with ethanol extractions over the past few years and i vastly prefer oral dosing to smoking. Not only do i find it much more psychedelic (esp at higher doses) but I find it does a much better job of quelling my cravings.
 
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Let me clarify, sober to me means not being under the influence of psychoactive substances in the current moment. You can consider sugar and food to be "psychoactive", no one is stopping you, but you would be wrong. They don't give any subjective effects. The general definition of a "drug" ime is just a substance that can get you high or make you feel different than before you consumed it.
 
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While I'm aware the following doesn't follow the dictionary definition the sober to me means not being under the influence of my drug of choice. Considering thats heroin, and I'm now off heroin, I'm sober.
 
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I'm not saying specifically you, I'm saying if someone said sugar and food are drugs, they would be wrong.
 
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Just because something activates dopamine pathways and is therefore reinforcing doesn't mean it's a drug. If that were the case we'd have to list sex and a host of other activities as drugs.
 
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Well there's really no debate with any of those, lol.
 
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Let's face it the definition of sobriety is more cultural then scientific. For instance nicotine and caffeine are fine but alcohol is bad.
 
Yep and meth is fine so long as big pharma is the one feeding it to your kids
 
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