Want to mix an amphetamine with my very pure MDMA, what should I use? 4-fa, meth, etc

[frontbluntt]

So I have really really pure MDMA powder. Besides having already tried it a few times with many years of MDMA use to compare it to as well as strong, positive marquis reagent tests, I also have a few other reasons not to doubt its purity; no need to go into details but to put it simply I strongly trust its source.

That's why I was surprised when I started taking it and trying to compare it to the best pills I've ever had at how much it lacked energy. It completely floors me and is not too suitable for a concert-type setting, although it's great for stay-at-home rolls. The magic is there and it's definitely MDMA (I almost threw up the first time I felt the initial rush of serotonin which I hadn't felt in so long), but I feel like just laying there and not moving because I'm so comfortable. I just lack motivation to do anything but sit there orgasmically, which is great for some days but I have some specific outdoors musical events in mind that I want to adapt this MDMA to.

I want to make the roll more like pills I took in the past which I'm sure were mixed with amphetamines, caffeine, and what have you.

The stimulants I have direct access to include 4-fa, methamphetamine, ethylphenidate, vyvanse, and a small amount of adderall but probably not enough adderall for multiple people like I need. I have been leaning towards 4-fa but I wonder if its own empathogenic effects might block or muddle MDMA's magic? Due to this thinking I was wondering if perhaps a more classical or straight dopamine-centered drug might be preferable. I read about some people suggesting 2-fma which I used to enjoy and could probably get again. I may also have or be able to get some MPA. I've even read some people suggesting caffeine or energy drinks instead of amphetamines at all but I doubt that would do it for me. Now that I'm thinking more about it, methamphetamine seems like it may be the best as it is very long-lasting as compared to most stims and very euphoric in its own right.

Thoughts? Opinions? Experiences?

 

[JWills20]

The crucial thing to remember when combining stimulants is that they will potentiate each other. So, be careful with your dosing so as to avoid overstimulation.

From personal experience, I love to mix a small amount of caffeine with my MDMA and find it helps to give you the energy that pure MDMA doesn't give you. However, I always save the caffeine for 2-3 hours in, but combining it for the peak sounds perfectly reasonable. If you're experienced with caffeine try 100-150mg (150mg is a 500ml energy drink). If you're not experienced with caffeine just go for half the drink (250ml energy drink - a small redbull) which would be roughly 75mg caffeine.

From what i've heard, 4-FA is also a great combo, but a more potent stimulant than caffeine. Considering I have no experience with 4-FA, I can only recommend dosing on the lower end of the scale - perhaps 100mg MDMA with 20mg 4-FA. I'd imagine that combination would provide all the MDMA effects with a slight energy/hyperactivity bonus from the 4-FA. Depending on what kind of experience you want, you could change the ratio. Something more speedy could be say 80mg MDMA, 40-50mg 4-FA.

But, always remember that you're going to get much more bang for your buck with whatever dose you take because they will synergize together. If it was me, I'd play the doses lower first just to see what the synergy is like. I know that caffeine & MDMA synergizes well at reasonable doses, but not so sure about 4-FA.

 

[lwal44]

A low dose of d-amphetamine is great, and you won't be too tweaked out on the tail end of the night. 5-15mg oral at the same time as the mdma and I will dance for 8 hours.
A red bull or some other drink with caffeine also works like a charm if you don't like to be floored. Meth lasts too long, for me atleast. And I end up getting quite strung out at the end of the experience.
4-FA felt more toxic on the comedown combined with mdma. But some people probably prefer it over other amphetamines.

 

[frontbluntt]

I don't have d-amp (unless you mean the percentage that's in Adderall or the fact that Vyvanse is simply a d-amp prodrug), I was hoping a suggestion based on what I have. And/or any reasons why 4-FA would be a bad choice.

 

[Torresmo]

I know many people may disagree, but IMO alcohol synergizes very well with MDMA. The first time I took MDMA I just felt, like you said, "floored"... Actually, I took it like 12:00 am and slept through the whole afternoon. Maybe I took a low dose, just don't know (I had no idea what should be the dose at the time), but I really don't think that was the case.

Then in that same day, when I woke up I just thought: fuck it! and dropped the whole rest I had. Still wasn't feeling nothing, then we went to a bar, to drink with friends, and by the 3rd beer WOOOOOOW it hit all at once. There was so much energy! I remember e and my cousin running down the streets doing somersaults hahaha good times...

Since then I always drink when I take MD. I could be wrong but I associate the beginning of the trip with the moment when the booze starts making its effect.
This may be also why I NEVER, EVER felt even a hint of nausea on MDMA. It may seem illogical, but the reason can be that it just smoothes the come up by helping to relax, thus calming the butterflies in one`s stomach.

Btw: I think 4-FA is way too MD like by itself, I guess it should be a nice combo if you lower the doses (Jwills suggestion seems a good one).
I saw on another thread people suggesting 2-FMA as a complement to 5-APB, as it looks like 2-FMA is just plain dopaminergic.

 

[frontbluntt]

I know many people may disagree, but IMO alcohol synergizes very well with MDMA. The first time I took MDMA I just felt, like you said, "floored"... Actually, I took it like 12:00 am and slept through the whole afternoon. Maybe I took a low dose, just don't know (I had no idea what should be the dose at the time), but I really don't think that was the case.

Then in that same day, when I woke up I just thought: fuck it! and dropped the whole rest I had. Still wasn't feeling nothing, then we went to a bar, to drink with friends, and by the 3rd beer WOOOOOOW it hit all at once. There was so much energy! I remember e and my cousin running down the streets doing somersaults hahaha good times...

Since then I always drink when I take MD. I could be wrong but I associate the beginning of the trip with the moment when the booze starts making its effect.
This may be also why I NEVER, EVER felt even a hint of nausea on MDMA. It may seem illogical, but the reason can be that it just smoothes the come up by helping to relax, thus calming the butterflies in one`s stomach.

Btw: I think 4-FA is way too MD like by itself, I guess it should be a nice combo if you lower the doses (Jwills suggestion seems a good one).
I saw on another thread people suggesting 2-FMA as a complement to 5-APB, as it looks like 2-FMA is just plain dopaminergic.

Yeah it seems 2-FMA is the most recommended, unfortunately I don't have any at the moment. What would be the next-best thing in your opinion (preferably of what I have immediate access to)?
And I know what you mean, in my early drug days before I discovered the magic of benzodiazepines, I relied on getting smashed after rolling in order to pass out. I just remember we would stay up hours longer than planned because we felt so good drunk and rolling.

However, these days, my stomach can't keep any amount of alcohol down. Plus, the hangovers the next day after rolling and getting wasted were true tests of willpower (remember I had not discovered benzos, opiates, etc).

BTW I'm pretty sure someone's gunna jump un here and tell you how dumb you (and I) are for overworking our livers or kidneys like that or whatever. I'm not pre-med lol

 

[frontbluntt]

And to lwall34:

Would Vyvance (the prodrug for d-amp) or Adderall (which has some d-amp in it I'm pretty sure) be okay substitutes for pure Desoxyn (or whatever pure d-amp you're referring to)?

 

[Torresmo]

Yeah it seems 2-FMA is the most recommended, unfortunately I don't have any at the moment. What would be the next-best thing in your opinion (preferably of what I have immediate access to)?
And I know what you mean, in my early drug days before I discovered the magic of benzodiazepines, I relied on getting smashed after rolling in order to pass out. I just remember we would stay up hours longer than planned because we felt so good drunk and rolling.

However, these days, my stomach can't keep any amount of alcohol down. Plus, the hangovers the next day after rolling and getting wasted were true tests of willpower (remember I had not discovered benzos, opiates, etc).

BTW I'm pretty sure someone's gunna jump un here and tell you how dumb you (and I) are for overworking our livers or kidneys like that or whatever. I'm not pre-med lol

About drinking, I meant maybe just drinking a little while coming up... I really believe this can give you the extra push you're looking after.
2-FMA should be similar to adderal and vyvanse, I guess. The problem with vyvanse is its slow release, and the problem with adderall is you don't have much.
Sorry, but I am not very experienced with stims, and I am not used to mix MDMA with anything besides LSD and alcohol (my perfect triple-flip hahah), so I can't give you further opinions on that matter. I am just reproducing what I read on BL.
How many times have you tried this new batch? Maybe you are not having enough space between your rolls.
Anyway, I guess between what you have in hand 4-FA should be the best option.

 

[weirdfish]

I got these pills recently, which are probably the best I've ever tried, but I keep feeling extremely tired for the first hour, like I need to lie down. I always start yawning when I start coming up on them haha. It's weird though, I hadn't done pills much at all until these but I've never had that level of tiredness before with good MDMA powder.

 

[frontbluntt]

I got these pills recently, which are probably the best I've ever tried, but I keep feeling extremely tired for the first hour, like I need to lie down. I always start yawning when I start coming up on them haha. It's weird though, I hadn't done pills much at all until these but I've never had that level of tiredness before with good MDMA powder.

I'm pretty sure all pure MDMA makes you wan and be tired and "floors" you. I think a lot of the "magic" people associate with MDMA is really explained by MDMA/other stimulant mixes. Just talkin out my ass here

 

[weirdfish]

I've had the flooring effect before, but not to this extent. Usually I can keep on dancing and chatting even if I feel a little overwhelmed. But I was at this house party the other day and I ended up locking myself in the bathroom and just lying on the floor for 15 mins until I felt able to get up and continue partying, lol

 

[JWills20]

I'm pretty sure all pure MDMA makes you wan and be tired and "floors" you. I think a lot of the "magic" people associate with MDMA is really explained by MDMA/other stimulant mixes. Just talkin out my ass here

No I completely agree. I was thinking today that a loss of magic is probably dopamine-related, as opposed to serotonin. High doses of MDMA cause such a steep serotonin increase that the dopamine/norepinephrine are completely overpowered. This results in a very mellow feeling which perhaps is perceived as less euphoric also. MDMA is most euphoric when serotonin and dopamine are nicely balanced out. Hence why less is more and most people talk about a 'sweet spot'. Combine MDMA with a little bit of another stimulant and you're in for some mad euphoria with the extra dopamine push. Sometimes the best part of a night for me is the last few hours once I've had an energy drink. That caffeine just pushes the dopamine back up and suddenly you're 'there' again. However, overdo the dopaminergic stimulant and you'll overpower the serotonin masking the empathy and cause overstimulation.

Most of MDMA's effects on dopamine are downstream (increases in serotonin cause increases in dopamine) as opposed to a direct release (amphetamine binds to dopamine and serves to release it directly). My theory is that a loss of magic involves less dopamine release in the presence of the same amounts of serotonin. Something like, the first time you take it serotonin sky-rockets to 900% and dopamine spikes toward 400%. After excessive usage, serotonin spikes to 900% again but the downstream effect on dopamine is no longer as strong, and so dopamine only spikes to say 200%. This neurochemical balance provides less euphoria and energy and perhaps feels more 'flooring'. A similar mechanism can explain why the setting can make such a difference. When your favourite song comes on dopamine spikes taking you to that state that you first used to feel. This up/down mechanism on dopamine is my own theory for why the MDMA experience is like it is. Adding other stimulants increase this dopamine directly and thus the magic returns.

 

[frontbluntt]

No I completely agree. I was thinking today that a loss of magic is probably dopamine-related, as opposed to serotonin. High doses of MDMA cause such a steep serotonin increase that the dopamine/norepinephrine are completely overpowered. This results in a very mellow feeling which perhaps is perceived as less euphoric also. MDMA is most euphoric when serotonin and dopamine are nicely balanced out. Hence why less is more and most people talk about a 'sweet spot'. Combine MDMA with a little bit of another stimulant and you're in for some mad euphoria with the extra dopamine push. Sometimes the best part of a night for me is the last few hours once I've had an energy drink. That caffeine just pushes the dopamine back up and suddenly you're 'there' again. However, overdo the dopaminergic stimulant and you'll overpower the serotonin masking the empathy and cause overstimulation.

Most of MDMA's effects on dopamine are downstream (increases in serotonin cause increases in dopamine) as opposed to a direct release (amphetamine binds to dopamine and serves to release it directly). My theory is that a loss of magic involves less dopamine release in the presence of the same amounts of serotonin. Something like, the first time you take it serotonin sky-rockets to 900% and dopamine spikes toward 400%. After excessive usage, serotonin spikes to 900% again but the downstream effect on dopamine is no longer as strong, and so dopamine only spikes to say 200%. This neurochemical balance provides less euphoria and energy and perhaps feels more 'flooring'. A similar mechanism can explain why the setting can make such a difference. When your favourite song comes on dopamine spikes taking you to that state that you first used to feel. This up/down mechanism on dopamine is my own theory for why the MDMA experience is like it is. Adding other stimulants increase this dopamine directly and thus the magic returns.

Very interesting! In years and years of Bluelight I've never heard this theory. Based on my experiences with pure, unadulterated MDMA, I think you might be right.

 

[Nicholai]

Just for the sake of HR, my sister ended up in the hospital freaking the fuck out like a mad bitch(ok, she is!), after taking MDMA and meth together on her birthday. She's a friggin hard case meth head so it's not like she didn't have the tolerance.

If you can get the amp by itself that, it will probably be the safest thing to take over the others, as it's an unadulterated, measured drug. I'm not certain with the flouridated amps though, I haven't tasted those yet!

 

[Septonn]

The 4-FA combo is really nice imo, but as has been said above you might be in for some overstimulation. When I do combine the two, I always take 4-FA first and once it has truly kicked in I add MDMA. When starting out with MDMA my judgement becomes somewhat clouded so I end up taking too much 4-FA. Also, the stimulating effects of 4-FA are longer lasting than the MDMA peak so I feel it also works out better timewise.

 

[frontbluntt]

The 4-FA combo is really nice imo, but as has been said above you might be in for some overstimulation. When I do combine the two, I always take 4-FA first and once it has truly kicked in I add MDMA. When starting out with MDMA my judgement becomes somewhat clouded so I end up taking too much 4-FA. Also, the stimulating effects of 4-FA are longer lasting than the MDMA peak so I feel it also works out better timewise.

Thank you kind sir

 

[JWills20]

Very interesting! In years and years of Bluelight I've never heard this theory. Based on my experiences with pure, unadulterated MDMA, I think you might be right.

Well it's just my intuition and entirely speculative. It was all inspired when I read that long-term MDMA-usage may decrease the control serotonin has over dopamine reward pathways. The up/down nature of a roll is to do with dopamine I feel. The serotonin is constant, with spikes in dopamine (usually caused by the setting) creating those little 'magic moments'.

Take it all with a pinch of salt though.

 

[dezz]

4-FA seems like it could be good but on the other hand it seems like you just want an added boost, not a full 10+hours of stimulation (which 4-fa always gives me). I just take bumps of regular amp's when I find myself lacking energy on MDMA. Just fill up a bullit and use it when I think I need it, always works for me. 4-FA seems more suitable the other way around IE take a good dose of that first, then add a smaller dose of mdma to boost up the euphoria in your peak.

 

[frontbluntt]

4-FA seems like it could be good but on the other hand it seems like you just want an added boost, not a full 10+hours of stimulation (which 4-fa always gives me). I just take bumps of regular amp's when I find myself lacking energy on MDMA. Just fill up a bullit and use it when I think I need it, always works for me. 4-FA seems more suitable the other way around IE take a good dose of that first, then add a smaller dose of mdma to boost up the euphoria in your peak.

What if 10+ hours of stimulation sounds good lol
I think I may follow your second recommendation; 4-fa followed by the sweet, sweet Mandy.
Perhaps the 4-FA will act as a stepping stone for the mega serotonin dump of MDMA which made me puke last time (I never got nauseous from pills)

 

[Black]

And to lwall34:

Would Vyvance (the prodrug for d-amp) or Adderall (which has some d-amp in it I'm pretty sure) be okay substitutes for pure Desoxyn (or whatever pure d-amp you're referring to)?

adderall is 75% d-amp and 25% l-amp. really if d-amphetamine works there's no way dl-ampetamine wouldn't. the most significant difference is that l-amp is about half as potent as d-amp.
vyvanse is not as good a choice because it takes longer to come on and lasts longer and desoxyn is methamphetamine, not amphetamine.