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Vancouver BC man claims poorly mixed fentanyl results in 'hot spots' which kill.

Mjäll said:
Interesting to note that kratom is nature's tranq dope, having both mu opioid and alpha 2 agonist activity.

According to ye olde naturalistic fallacy, it being a plant is also why it's kind enough not to induce any fatal respiratory depression.
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Errr.... Opium?
 
sekio said:
The solution is that people need to stop glorifying the high of "down" and start working to better themselves.

> We do need more consistent potency levels [and no sneaky benzo bs] in our street opiates though

Here we are blessed with a "safe supply" program. Not only do we have the usual methadone and buprenorphine maintenance, but we also have high-dose extended release morphine sulfate (Kadian) prescribed at up to 1000mg/day, in addition to "breakthrough" medication consisting of 8mg hydromorphone hydrochloride and lactose tablets (brand name Dilaudid or equivalent), in quantities up to 20 or so a day. (=160mg hydromorphone))
Also, we provide methylphenidate 10mg pills for cocaine users, and 2mg clonazepam pills for those using benzodiazepines. I think there is 10mg dextroamphetamine IR for meth users too.
The best part? You can receive any or all of these. Go to an addictions doctor and admit you have a serious drug problem with [XYZ]. Usually they will require a positive urine test, but at least that is much more easily done than trying to get a negative result. (Have a serious party the day before and indulge in all the substances you can (at safe doses, of course).) You will leave with a prescription for daily medications (you may have to pick them up or have a pharmacist witness you take the methadone for the first little while, but an ask for delivery with some pharmacies) The dr. may want to start you on methadone first for opioid use, and you may receive smaller doses than some, but if you wait a few days and ask politely ("I still get cravings to use [XYZ]") they will usually increase your dose (or add other meds, i.e. hydromorphone).

I know someone who has daily deliveries of 120mg methadone HCl in Tang, 14 x 8mg hydromorphone HCl tablets, 10 x 10mg methylphenidate tablets, 4 x 2mg clonazepam tablets, 4 x 10mg cyclobenzaprine tablets.

The sad part? A lot of users end up trading their safe drugs for street dope anyway, because they are chasing a high, and unwilling to lower their tolerance to where they can feel 36mg hydromorphone IV again.

But yeah, Vancouver seems to be doing the Right Thing when it comes to drug abuse treatment. They finally put their money where their mouth is and just did the math to realize hydromorphone tablets are a lot cheaper than treating overdoses.
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Holy shit bro ARE U SERIOUS I live in Ohio u.s. and I'd only in my wildesg dreams imagine getting that from doctors but really it makes sense give thd people wag they want safe supply , see I'm stable on methodone now I could feel each and everyone of those Meds to there fullest I've been sober so long on methodone WOWWW so are u getting these meds?
 
AlsoTapered said:
Do they say that in the film? They list a stack of downers, but it's all the medical stuff.

I have to say, if someone cannot feel 36mg of IV hydromorphone.... that is one HELL of a tolerance.

I have brought this up before but fentanyl binds to an extra amino-acid residue and I have wondered if maybe it means other opioids don't cover fentanyl dependence.

Of course the Dutch had that figured out 40 years ago which is why bezitramide was used to treat opioid dependant patients. Then a 5YO kid finds a Bigodin (bezitramide) tablet in his mother's purse, eats it and promptly dies.... so it got banned,

I'm curious that a child would do such a thing, at least the way the official story is told. Of COURSE it should have been securely stored but even at 5 I wouldn't eat random items from my mums purse.

So now they are given methadone once a say - anyone who has had both will confirm bezitramide was a much better treatment AND the length of the amide could have been altered so that it also lasted for 24 hours.... but it became political. Ever seen how pharmacists treat people who are on daily methadone? I've walked in, been served and watched as these people were made to wait.... or is that just in the UK.
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Def a hell of a tolerance I'll say this I was on 200 mg of methodone coming off raw fyntinol and didn't even feel methodone ever
 
hwbush336 said:
Def a hell of a tolerance I'll say this I was on 200 mg of methodone coming off raw fyntinol and didn't even feel methodone ever
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As I have mentioned, fentanyl hits a key moiety most opioids don't so MAYBE methadone simply will not stop fentanyl withdrawal.

Bezitramide & R-4066 (a methadone derivative) both hit that extra moiety.
 
When i was doing fentanyl sometimes i would fail a urine sample 2 weeks after using. With all these RC's you don't really know what you're taking. Years ago i knew someone addicted to the fent patches, methadone worked for him and he was heavy user.
I'm trying to taper now with regular morphine but if it doesn't go as planned i know i can go to the clinic and get that or hydromorph, i definitely wouldn't touch fent again.

Safe supply does work, not for everyone but someone like me at my stage in life would go for the safe drug over street fent. We have a politician who will be going against Trudeau in our next election. He's already said he would stop the safe supply program and build more rehabs. Rehab don't work unless you want it so if they cancel safe supply people will die.

If it saves 1 life the program is worth it. Any Canadian here can see what's happening even in small town canada.
 
The Chinese have developed thienorphine. It will block fentanyl. Heck, it will block etorphine.

I guess it's hard to count people NOT dying and any reduction can be attributed to whatever the politician believes their constituents WANT it to be.

In the UK hydromorphone (Pallidone) is almost NEVER prescribed and they have been smart enough to design it to be really hard to shoot or snort. Forward thinking from the UK... I guess even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
 
Oh, it was a mere tacky joke tacked on

I did call the fallacy a fallacy while referencing it...
 
AlsoTapered said:
People actually used to take arsenic as a performance enhancing drug. In fact, I think it was one of the first drugs banned in professional sports.

The old 'the dose makes the poison' thing again.
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I am aware of that, but is it safe because it's natural?
 
AlsoTapered said:
What, arsenic? There have been 140 million cases of arsenic poisoning. Is THAT because it's natural?
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No, just because something is naturally occurring doesn't make it safe.
That is entirely my point .

Radium is another "natural" substance that is far from safe !
Krantom may or may not be safe independent of if it is naturally occurring.
 
No-one ever seriously referenced any fallacy as an argument so no need to discuss that

Kratom is relatively safe but not because it's natural

Kratom is nature's tranq dope however, ;
 
I'm not sure
Mjäll said:
No-one ever seriously referenced any fallacy as an argument so no need to discuss that

Kratom is relatively safe but not because it's natural

Kratom is nature's tranq dope however, ;
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It's PROPOSED to act on the a2 receptor. Do you have a reference proving it? I'm not saying you are wrong, just that i doesn't appear to be proven.

Also affinity and activity would need to be known. Some idiot posted that levorphanol was an NMDA antagonist so it was LIKE ketamine... I pointed out that the dose would be fatal well before any dissociative activity would be noted... although I suppose one can consider death as being as dissociated as it's possible to get.
 
AlsoTapered said:
I'm not sure


It's PROPOSED to act on the a2 receptor. Do you have a reference proving it? I'm not saying you are wrong, just that i doesn't appear to be proven.

Also affinity and activity would need to be known. Some idiot posted that levorphanol was an NMDA antagonist so it was LIKE ketamine... I pointed out that the dose would be fatal well before any dissociative activity would be noted... although I suppose one can consider death as being as dissociated as it's possible to get.
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No i'm not sure at all. More of an interesting observation of claims than a claim of irrefutable fact.

This is my reference, however; https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7676998/

Does seem pretty good research, although i am yet to parse the practical details

I do believe based on this research and personal experience that kratom is meaningfully a2 adrenergic agonist. It's a belief that may be challenged and not set in stone. I am attracted to the concept of course.
 
sekio said:
Fun fact, xylazine in heroin was actually first seen more than 10 years ago, in Puerto Rico.
Xylazine is added because it is an alpha-2a agonist, which is an adrenaline autoreceptor - it's what your body uses to sense adrenaline/noradrenaline levels. By activating this receptor it makes your body think "I have too much adrenaline floating around, I should release less to compensate", so it acts as a rapid-acting physical sedative that decreases blood pressure quite a lot, which would make your heroin or whatever seem more intense. Plus it has a short half life, and is readily diverted from veterinary supplies, and is not a controlled drug,

The closest analogue used in medicine would be clonidine.


there is indeed a test strip for xylazine available.


"tranq" is not xylazine specifically, rather a term for opioids with xylazine as a cut


Well, the thing is, xylazine can apparently be given by injection (IM/IV) in humans [ref] However the list of side effects is a mile long and it is not used medically in humans for this reason. Its skin ulcerating effect is apparently due to reducing oxygenation in skin.

Wiki: Xylazine administration can lead to diabetes mellitus and hyperglycemia. Other possible side-effects are areflexia, asthenia, ataxia, blurred vision, disorientation, dizziness, drowsiness, dysarthria, dysmetria, fainting, hyporeflexia, slurred speech, somnolence, staggering, coma, apnea, shallow breathing, sleepiness, premature ventricular contraction, tachycardia, miosis, and dry mouth. Rarely, hypotonia, urinary incontinence, and nonspecific electrocardiographic ST segment changes occur.

Chronic intravenous use of xylazine in combination with opioids is reported to be associated with physical deterioration, dependence, abscesses, and skin ulceration, sometimes progressing to necrosis with eschar formation, which can be physically debilitating and painful. Hypertension followed by hypotension, bradycardia, and respiratory depression lower tissue oxygenation in the skin. Thus, chronic use of xylazine can progress the skin oxygenation deficit, leading to severe skin ulceration. Lower skin oxygenation is associated with impaired healing of wounds and a higher chance of infection.[9] The ulcers may ooze pus and have a characteristic odor. In severe cases, amputations must be performed on the affected extremities.
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It's been in the America mainland for over 10yrs. One of my dealers got busted with it back in 2008.
 
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