Urgent!! What interactions could NBOME have w/ tramadol and pregabalin??!!

[alexvolume2]

I've been invited to trip in the desert and although my friend says the blotters contain LSA, I don't think this is physically possible. He's saying that a third of one blotter produces heavy visuals.

I don't think it's LSA or LSD. To avoid turning this into a what drug is it I will assume they're NBOME tabs due to the rarity of LSD and there's no way LSA could fit on a single tab.

I think it might be dangerous to combine this with tramadol and pregabalin.

What do you guys think, it's happening in about 3 hours and I need advice!

 

[Jesusgreen]

Tramadol significantly lowers the seizure threshold (i.e. makes it more likely for you to have seizures), most psychedelics (LSD and other lysergamides included) also lower the seizure threshold a little, and this seems to be much more true for the NBOMes in particular. This is a potentially dangerous combination - the pregabalin *might* help you avoid a seizure but it's not a risk worth taking, especially since you aren't even certain what's on the blotter.

In short: Bad idea.

 

[Solipsis]

You are already on tramadol and pregabalin and considering taking a blotter containing an unknown / unidentified / unconfirmed psychedelic?

JG is right, the tramadol is bad news in this context, it does not play well with other things, even if they are LSD or related to it. NBOMe compounds have been known to cause incidents involving seizures and tramadol on its own can cause them, let alone the combo.

Don't, at the very least get tramadol out of the picture... pregabalin has less obvious interaction risks but there is also uncertainty there.

 

[Ismene]

Tramadol significantly lowers the seizure threshold (i.e. makes it more likely for you to have seizures).

That's not quite true JG. Tramadol, when taken in an enormous overdose (from memory the figure in the research was something like 600-1000mg), can increase the risk of seizures in about 1% of people who take it if they are already vulnerable to seizures - such as epileptics.

Somewhere down the line that always gets shortened to "it increases risk of seizure". Only in epileptics taking a massive overdose.

 

[sekio]

CONCLUSIONS:

Mean tramadol intake does not differ between patients with and without seizure, and the most common dose range in those with seizure is 500-1000 mg. We thus conclude that the incidence of seizure with tramadol is not dose dependent.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19415589

It's still not a good idea to take NBOMe drugs with pretty much anything else. Minimize your dosage of tramadol if at all possible.

 

[Solipsis]

I don't really think that's the point Ismene, NBOMe compounds have been known to cause seizures, they are highly potent serotonergic agents and tramadol can have dangerous interactions with serotonergic drugs.

I've felt weird interactions like that with tramadol and many others have, and the serotonergics involved weren't even as iffy as NBOMe's.

 

[Ismene]

Not quite sure I follow that research sekio, if the most common dose for seizures was 500-1000mg how can they conclude it's not dose dependent?

If it wasn't dose dependent there wouldn't be a more common dose that cause seizure would there?

 

[Ismene]

I don't really think that's the point Ismene, NBOMe compounds have been known to cause seizures, they are highly potent serotonergic agents and tramadol can have dangerous interactions with serotonergic drugs.

God knows what NBOMES do - yeah definately don't mix em with anything.

 

[sekio]

No statistically significant difference was observed in mean tramadol intake between patients with or without seizure. Analysis of patients with seizure, according to tramadol intake, indicated that most patients used tramadol in the dose range of 500-1000 mg followed in occurrence by 1500-2000 mg, then 100-500 mg, 2500-3000 mg, and 3500-4000 mg.

It seems like tramadol seizures are sort of a binary choice. You are either susceptible to them, or you are not. It is impossible to tell until you have a seizure. It certainly seems that it's dose-dependent a little bit though, because the average dose was 1700-2400mg (!). But then again some people have seizures at the "100-500mg" level.

I think you've gotta have some serious problems if you're doing 2.5 grams a day of tramadol.

It may be some people are inherently more susceptible to tramadol seizures than others, and some that don't ever experience them.

We know pretty well what NBOMes do, that's the problem. They are super potent psychedelics that can cause the body to react rather negatively, similar to a huge overdose of a psychedelic tryptamine or phenethylamine. And most people really go balls to the wall with dosing. It's rare I hear of someone doing 250ug or less - an effective psychedelic dose for stuff like 25C. Doses are almost always in the milligram (1000ug) range.

 

[Solipsis]

We know pretty well what NBOMes do, that's the problem. They are super potent psychedelics that can cause the body to react rather negatively, similar to a huge overdose of a psychedelic tryptamine or phenethylamine. And most people really go balls to the wall with dosing. It's rare I hear of someone doing 250ug or less - an effective psychedelic dose for stuff like 25C. Doses are almost always in the milligram (1000ug) range.

What exactly do we know about it? What does a psychedelic overdose syndrome like that entail? I don't feel like I have a grasp at the effects of a negative body reaction following a psychedelic overdose...

What it gives me is the inkling that there is somehow a link between having massive (full) agonism on serotonergic receptors like 5-HT2a, and seizures: unusual bursts and cascades of neurological activity.

I think there is thread touching on that idea... basically that not everything is all right with hyperactivity at 5-HT2a.

 

[sekio]

Some [NBOMe] deaths are from self-injury. Some deaths are from seizure and/or aspiration and could be prevented by putting the person in the recovery position. The serotonin 5ht2a receptor is also present on platelets and can cause them to form clots, so some deaths could also be from [sudden blood clotting causing stroke, aneurysm or cardiac arrest]. What is certain is that many deaths occur at doses higher than 1mg or in cases where the people don't even know the dose.

These drugs are incredibly potent serotonin agonists with a steep dose response curve. Part of the problem is that many people immediately jump into ridiculously sized doses, or they redose during the experience, or they get ballsy and figure "if one milligram is fine then two is better". 200 micrograms can be the difference between a tolerable trip and an overwhelming one. You have to excercise the utmost caution with these substances.

from here.

 

[Solipsis]

I don't really have experience with the behavior of people having an NBOMe overdose, but I imagine that if they show with violent movement it could be very hard to put them in recovery position like you can do with a downer OD victim. But, generally very good advice that I think all trippers and drug-users ought to know as a sort of first aid training thing.

Not sure what to think about that 'binary' remark about tramadol seizures but tramadol does make me feel like I am not managing my serotonin system very well and am getting serotonin storm like symptoms (I am not saying that I believe to actually be close to having an SS). The feeling is a bit reminiscent of what DXM can do to me, which I guess is SRI action... also I once made a mistake and had tramadol while there was also a serotonergic agent in my system (unfortunately I can't remember which compound, perhaps 4-FA), and while I did not have a seizure I did feel like I came closer to having some kind of episode. Not something I ever wish to repeat, I totally blanked on the contraindication at the time.

Tramadol may have some AD effect, but regardless I think that it is a creepy substance and that the M1 is entirely superior. They should prescribe that for pain IMO.

 

[alexvolume2]

Quick reply. Dosage of 1 very bitter tab taken sublingually resulted in a colorful psychedelic trip marked by very heavy bruxism, light mental effects, and astonishingly long onset (about 2 and a half hours) lasting about 8 hours.

That morning I had taken 200 mg tramadol with 900 mg pregabalin.

I did take all advice into consideration but decided to take a risky chance in the end. Drugs supposedly came from a dealer in D.F. and were consumed in Chihuahua City, Mexico. I was will 10 other people-5 guys 5 girls and everyone had trouble free trips in a very positive environment. All co-trippers were young Mexican hippies and they put me at great ease as they played djembe and guitar while singing.

It was in the face of HR to take an unknown substance with pharmaceuticals, but all turned out muy chingon in the end.

Thank you all for your help. I have limited web access but will be happy to answer any questions or absorb any admonishments.

 

[treezy z]

i wouldn't worry about the pregablin but tramadol can be dangerous and nbome can be dangerous by themselves (for reasons already mentioned) so don't mix.

 

[Psychonautical]

i mean the worst thing that would happen is you die a terrible and painful death full of hypotension and excurciating emotional pain and torment as your brain is destroyed by the Poisonous Nbome series.

 

[Si Dread]

... just another night out on the tiles, eh? ^

Glad you're still with us but really, don't ever take ANY drug about which you are uncertain. Simple. Mixing ANY unknown drug with any known one is even more foolish, I'm afraid. Parties come & go, festivals come & go, but you only live once.

Knowing what we know now, an NBOMe compound on it's own is a risk I personally wouldn't take if Hendrix himself came back & offered to solo just for me while I tripped! Okay, fuck it, that'd be a good reason to push the limits but nothing less than that!

 

[al-laddin]

The long onset/bitter taste /bruxism sounds like it may have been a DOx ...but 8 hour duration doesn't quite add up. Lysergamides are only slighty even negligibly bitter. I happen to be sensitive to the taste and seem to taste LSZ , Al-LAD, and genuine LSD tabs while most friends will report no taste at all. Tramadol scares me, theres something odd about that chemical

 

[dstr8427]

I had a bit of a Tramadol problem a while back. I used to be very reckless when it came to drugs. As a teenager, I thought there was nothing better than getting all doped up while I was tripping balls. I never got into heroin thankfully, but I used to give myself massive stomach aches from all the pills I would take at the beginning of a trip. Pregabalin and tramadol were two of my favorites, actually. Taking 1g of pregabalin will get you incredibly fucked up for a very long time, and I would normally take 600-800 mgs of tramadol even when I wasn't tripping. I was always warned (and was a bit scared) of tramadol seizures by my friends, but I've never had a seizure off of anything. I'd say the most tramadol I've taken at a time was 1000mgs, and although it felt great, my stomach didn't. Over the past few years, my stomach has been getting a lot of problems, including random puking and being unable to hold down food. Unfortunately, I honestly think it's because of all the tramadol, not to mention all the other pills I took when I could get my hands on them. I rarely take tramadol now, but still love pregabalin. I'm on 800 mgs of it right now!

With all that being said, I definitely don't recommend taking tramadol (or pills in general) while on psychedelics. Not only will it make your head hurt, increase your chances of serotonin syndrome, and increase your chances of seizure, it just wont make you feel good. Sometimes, the acid high and the dope high was simply too much. I would also get very sick sometimes while tripping, which is no fun. A purge is one thing, but knowing youre puking because of drugs you shouldn't have taken can put you in a very bad state while in a psychedelic mindset. Please, use caution!

 

[alexvolume2]

Now that I have reflected more. I realize that I dosed 7pm. Came up at 9 pm. But I felt lessened effects up to 9 am the next day, possibly afterglow, but it seems that I might've understated the duration. Does sound like the description of a DOx, although I've never knowingly dosed DOx and only know effects through trip reports.

I use tramadol and pregabalin cause they're OTC in Mexico and sourcing anything besides weed and benzos is tricky to dangerously. I also find them quite pleasurable in the doses if 600-900 mg preg and 200-to 500 mg tram. I'm tapering off the pregabalina with clonazepama. I love pregabalin but it's expensive here, while clonazepam is about 5 barros for treinta 2mg pastille. Is it still price discussion if it's in Spanish?

I do suspect the tramadol influenced the edginess of the trip to a sometimes uncomfortable level. I've done MDMA, meth, MDPV, legit acid and nothing compared to the completely awful bruxism incurred in this trip.

 

[dstr8427]

Price discussion is price discussion, please refrain. Thanks

While tramadol does feel good, I eventually quit using altogether while tripping, because it does make things a lot different. High doses of tramadol make me extremely edgy, not to mention, I grind the hell out of my teeth and the muscle clenching is almost unbearable. I used to do it because I can't sleep on tramadol (no matter the dose), and thought it would be a nice way to supplement the trip. I don't recommend it to anyone.