Unrepairable damage from AL-LAD?

[johnload]

Long time lurker here, first time posting. I'll make this as short as possible.

4-5 years ago I started to get into psychedelics. I did mushrooms,lsd & 2cb for about almost 2 years. No problems. 99% great trips.

I get AL-LAD. And start combining that with 2cb. First 3 trips were great. But slowly each trip the music sounded harder to comprehend. Then music just slowed down to a crawl. Did another al-lad & 2cb trip same thing, did LSD and now it also slowed music down to a crawl and also visuals were at 2/10 of what they used to be. Completely changed and not fun at all. Tried a few other psychedelics again, low visuals and slowed down music.

I give up psychedelics for 6 months, diet right, exercise, go back on anti-depressants & zyprexa..and try psychedelics once again when I was in a great headspace and the slowed down music effect and barely any type of visuals are still there.

After a few years I found only 3 things have helped the trip get back to somewhat normal. MDA, MXE and Ketamine. They are about the only things that can help restore visuals and music. Sometimes klonopin helps but it can kill the try.

I would of thought after 5 years stuff would of gone back to normal, but no matter what psychedelic I do ,how long I stay sober for the magic of psychedelics never come back.

Instead of the cool wavy dreamlike visuals, I am usually left with just a color shifted type visuals that are just very tired looking. It feels as if my brain just doesn't have enough power to do a psychedelic trip and music just slows to a crawl. I also can have a hard time understanding what anyone is saying in movies,they speak in this flimsy type of way.

So I am wondering if its possible that AL-LAD could of done something to Serotonin,Dopamine or Noreprephine ?

I have only found 1 other person that has used AL-LAD that has had the same side effects. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[T. Calderone]

BDD -------- > Psychedelic Drugs

 

[kratomized]

Pychedleics will lose their magick for anyone that overindulges...its kind of their part of the built in antiaddictive propertes.. you just need a much longer break...forget about them for awhile..focus on your life. and return to them after a several year hiatus...and then use sparingly....a few times a year or so... this happened to me back in the day...then i tried taking a massive dose, had a bad trip and didnt return to them for 6 years...but when i came back I was alice in wonderland again

 

[The Shadow Self]

You are not the only person that I've read about having similar issues with AL-LAD. I had similar issues as well. When I was taking higher doses of LSD, I had experiences where my brain could almost "not comprehend" or process certain frequencies, and I recall having alarming issues, while listening to music with headphones on, that the music seemed incomprehensible, droning, slowed down to the point where I just had to take my headphones off and stop listening because it was so disturbing. It's what made me stop using AL-LAD. I had LONG conversations on another board with a couple a people that described the exact same thing. So, it's interesting to hear that you are reporting this. Again, not the first person I've heard say the exact same thing re: AL. Never had anything like it on other psychs and have tripped hundreds of times over 30 + years.

 

[johnload]

Shadow please let me know if you or anyone else have found any type of cure or fix for this. Some people have thought I was just having bad trips,but it's not a bad trip,just stuff seems out of whack. I feel as if maybe the dopamine/serotonin balance might be screwed up in some weird way. Do you or your friends still have the same problems anytime you take psychedelics or is it just with AL-LAD?

Another thing I noticed, is while Ketamine or something like 3-meo-pcp may help trips, if I dose K or 3-meo by itself and do way too much of a high dose music also becomes slowed down again,although not nearly as bad as AL-LAD. From what I remember if theres alot of dopamine being pumped,then serotonin gets depleted? So maybe low serotonin makes for the bad music sound?

One thing I also noticed is that I rarely ever get an afterglow..maybe out of all the trips I've tried after Al-lad, 2 or 3 at most had an after glow..they were the only decent low dosed ones that went ok.

 

[phuckingnutz]

John, what dose of Al were you doing when this first happened?

 

[blistersinthedark]

You mentioned antidepressants and an anti-psychotic (zyprexa) - were you on those before trying AL-LAD? Why are you taking zyprexa? I wouldn't be surprised if that drug completely dulled the effects of psychedelics.
Seems like there's more to it than just the effects of AL-LAD and 2C-B.

 

[johnload]

phuckingnutz - I was doing 300ug of AL-LAD usually with 25mg of 2cb.

Blister- Antidepressants and Zyprexa were after all my psychedelic use. Someone told me to try Zyprexa since it helps reset the receptors back to their normal state.


Basically the timeline went like this:
LSD/2cb/Mushrooms - Zero problems
AL-LAD - within 2 months everything went bad. While I was doing Al-lad the only thing I had been using was 2cb.
No other drugs were being used besides a drink or two. No medications,no bad mindset or setting, when using AL-LAD I was in a great headspace and everything was going great. Also remember that these trips weren't bad trips. They just slowly become worse and weaker..

I really don't see what else it could be besides AL-LAD especially since a few other people have gone through the same thing. Whenever I did LSD/2cb/Mushrooms before using AL-LAD I never had these type of problems that AL-LAD brought out.

Out of all the psychedelics I tried, I have to say AL-LAD was by far my favorite in terms of visual and audio.

It also killed the magic of psychedelics, instead of the dreamy,fluid,animated visuals I was used to they now look like chromatic aberration type images.

Only reason why I started taking AL-lad was due to its length, I could trip for 4 hours or so on a sunday afternoon and be great the next day. The afterglow was great on AL-LAD, it was to me at the time the best psychedelic I tried. No side effects like anxiety or bad come up.

I also did 2cb many times before and it was always great, no problems at all. I wasn't into any other drugs or meds.

It also didnt happen at once, AL-LAD was great, and the trip that started it all was when we were listening to music and everyone sounded like they were in a bad cover band, i thought it was hilarious. Then the next time voices become this other type of language, then after that I couldn't understand them , then the next time the music got slower, and slower and by that time it was already too late.. I didnt' think much of it cause I've never heard of this type of stuff happening to everyone.

Lucky me

 

[maddee2145]

Hey John,
Did you do spacing between the trip? How about your tolerance?
What I noticed, that it is pretty quick building when using al-lad. I barelly feel any effects even after the 1 week, redosing helps very little. It was really weak for me.
Also from the first time I used it I noticed that it slowing down my motion picture. Everything like water in bathroom or snow in the street become moving slower. I havent seen anything like this from other drugs, including lysergamides such as lsd,1p or ald52.

Could it be that al-lad lower neurons interaction speed? Maybe you should try something that probably make neurons go faster.
You mentioned that MDA helps you. What about MDMA?
Are 2CB still works fine for you?

 

[johnload]

It was so much fun tripping with friends .. we did it every sunday. Tolerance reset back to zero in a week. So it never got weak. I didnt have to wait 2-4 weeks like LSD or mushrooms to redose.

I had a bad experience on MDMA it just didn't do anything for me. Ever since then I never touched it. Music didn't sound better, nothing really stood out as being great about it.

No 2cb no longer works great for me,neither does LSD. 2cb now gives me alot of anxiety and side effects like body tremors. LSD makes me tired and that sense of happiness and love is gone. But sometimes when I tripped I could have one or two songs go good,but they only sounded enhanced, not that psychedelic sounding vibe that it used to have.

What would make neurons go faster?

With the visuals one thing I noticed was that it made everything into threes, and that they would just slowly rotate, almost skeleton looking visuals. Same visuals all the time.
If I could get everything back to normal I'd be so happy.

 

[Solipsis]

NBOMe's, from the reports those really can wreak havoc on body temp, hyperthermia a la MDMA as it seems. Hypothalamic dysregulation etc.. Maybe lysergamides can affect it, but I think worrying about it being an actual problem is exaggerating. Whereas if you don't feel comfortable with the drugs, simply stop taking them as you sound unusually sensitive to some of these effects.

Excuse me but how did you come up with 'AL-LAD lowering neuron interaction speed' ? maddee? Lysergamides and most other psychedelics like these increase serotonergenic transmission, and the most prominent effect is that brain areas that normally don't affect each other as easily, now do more easily. Generally inhibition is much lowered, so brain activity that is normally suppressed then has a much better chance at getting an actual podium.

I admit I don't know what 1-acyl lysergamides have special affinities for, that have little to do with the psychedelic purpose,.

Anyway what nobody's mentioned: is the TS still on anti-depressants, most likely of the SSRI class? Cause while some people find limited interaction when tripping, others find a lot... That is something that may help to discount your issues?

The music effects are very hard to examine, it's just as possible that these are inherent to normal psychedelic effects as an issue arising with sensory information processing. Along with MDMA psychedelics can have curious tinnitus-related consequences and readjustments.. I guess it's best to discontinue tripping if this really becomes a nuisance.

 

[Dracarys]

I don't think that any damage done, would necessarily be beyond repair. Maybe part of what you're experiencing is psychological. You could try ayahuasca, as it contains a powerfull MAOI, wich increases both serotonin as well as dopamine levels.

 

[Solipsis]

Please hold your horses, any supposed damage implied is so very tentative.. and suggesting that lowering or increasing mere monoamine levels fixing any problem, although it can maybe make you feel better like TCA's also can, there are also hazards involved with just upping neurotransmitter levels.

Let's be more precise instead of letting vagueness escalate or platitudes triumph that are derived from what little we understand from ayahuasca effects. That it has a big potential for healing, I'm sure, and while I've not experienced it but at the only approximation psilohuasca I also have felt healed through countless other experiences, that doesn't mean it's a good idea to get carried away and overextend.

Granted: considering the therapeutic index of LSD and the doubtful argument for any damage, I agree that there's not much reason to suspect any organic damage.

 

[johnload]

I'm not on any meds. I can still trip and still do,but I have to combine psychedelics with MDA/Ketamine or MXE. 3-Meo-PCP also made music sound great, at a medium dose range it was like the psychedelic magic was back, but I gave 3-meo up since it seemed like just a tiny bit too much could send me in a mania that I hated. MDA,MXE,Ketamine all work great with music. With MDA by far being my favorite. If I do something like 4-aco-dmt with MXE and Melatonin it gives me incredible CEV"S and ALMOST mimics a heavy psychedelic MDA trip. A large dose of Phenibut also makes for some great music.

Other odd things I noticed, is a few times psychedelics trips (LSD) could be going well, then around the 3 hour mark or so they always go downhill. And its pretty instant too.

I can't touch ayahuasca...too be honest, I'm terrified of it. I stopped using DMT a while go because my trips are way too intense. They used to be fun, but now its like level 10 all the time and its away too much of a mindfuck for me. I'm talking about total world dissolving, I can't see the real world anymore in front of me,its always in the entities world. My brain feels completely different when I take DMT and I'm sure aya would be the same. With psychedelics I feel like I am viewing the trip,but with DMT I am inside the trip..

Sorry if I said that Al-lad caused damage maybe that isn't the right word...but it feels like some wires are criss crossed or something.

And if it was psychological then wouldn't I most likely have bad trips? And wouldn't I have bad trips if that was the case when I do combos like 4-aco + MXE?
I've had bad trips before so I know the difference between a bad trip and whatever is going on with me since taking AL-LAD.

I guess I could see how it could be psychological too since I don't understand how after all these years the same thing is happening,but then again, I've taken psychedelics in a great mindset, in fact when I was at the happiest point of my life this was still happening to me. But if it is was 100% psychological, then what about the others that have had these sides too?

I also like to talk about this just as a warning to others in case they might see the first signs of something happening like this to them when they take Al-lad that they should stop.

 

[maddee2145]

h 'AL-LAD lowering neuron interaction speed' ? maddee? Lysergamides and most other psychedelics like these increase serotonergenic transmission, and the most prominent effect is that brain areas that normally don't affect each other as easily, now do more easily. Generally inhibition is much lowered, so brain activity that is normally suppressed then has a much better chance at getting an actual podium.

I admit I don't know what 1-acyl lysergamides have special affinities for, that have little to do with the psychedelic purpose,.

Anyway what nobody's mentioned: is the TS still on anti-depressants, most likely of the SSRI class? Cause while some people find limited interaction when tripping, others find a lot... That is something that may help to discount your issues?

Sorry i just was made a conclusion that based on effects from AL-LAD. John sad that music what he hears is slowing down. I also noticed that my visual picture sometimes goes slowing done too and this happened only from AL-LAD and probably this is some how connected to brain chemistry, but offcourse I am not sure wich mechanism involved in visual picture and sound recognition speed. As you sad that it is not neurons interaction speed I do not know why it happens either.

Probably as you mentioned before the main reason is because of anti-depresants, because I also have a friend wich is in similar situation as John.
He also using al-lad / eth-lad, combining with 2CB sometimes for a long time. I am quite sure about him. Nothing bad was happened so far.

 

[maddee2145]

It was so much fun tripping with friends .. we did it every sunday. Tolerance reset back to zero in a week. So it never got weak. I didnt have to wait 2-4 weeks like LSD or mushrooms to redose.

I had a bad experience on MDMA it just didn't do anything for me. Ever since then I never touched it. Music didn't sound better, nothing really stood out as being great about it.

No 2cb no longer works great for me,neither does LSD. 2cb now gives me alot of anxiety and side effects like body tremors. LSD makes me tired and that sense of happiness and love is gone. But sometimes when I tripped I could have one or two songs go good,but they only sounded enhanced, not that psychedelic sounding vibe that it used to have.

What would make neurons go faster?

With the visuals one thing I noticed was that it made everything into threes, and that they would just slowly rotate, almost skeleton looking visuals. Same visuals all the time.
If I could get everything back to normal I'd be so happy.

Well something really strange happened to you.
As I mentioned before al-lad /eth-lad is my friend favorite drugs. From what he tell me that 2CB is substance which is less making tolerance. He can use it 3 day in a row without tolerance to build up.

Maybe you should take your look at antidepresants as Solipsis mentioned. It seems that if both 2CB and AL-LAD not work anymore for you, that something definetly causing receptors to stop interact with it. As you mentioned antidepresants. It looks like they blocking it.

Look both drugs are from different groups. 1 is lysergamides and 1 phenetylamine. 2CB is very forgivable to tolerance. However 25 mg is large ammount in other hand once a week is not everyday abuse. Well, can you stop using antidepresants? Is it medication from Doctor or what?

 

[johnload]

Well something really strange happened to you.
As I mentioned before al-lad /eth-lad is my friend favorite drugs. From what he tell me that 2CB is substance which is less making tolerance. He can use it 3 day in a row without tolerance to build up.

Maybe you should take your look at antidepresants as Solipsis mentioned. It seems that if both 2CB and AL-LAD not work anymore for you, that something definetly causing receptors to stop interact with it. As you mentioned antidepresants. It looks like they blocking it.

Look both drugs are from different groups. 1 is lysergamides and 1 phenetylamine. 2CB is very forgivable to tolerance. However 25 mg is large ammount in other hand once a week is not everyday abuse. Well, can you stop using antidepresants? Is it medication from Doctor or what?

I think you guys may be a bit confused.

Anti-depressants were used probably 2 years after all this happened so they have zero to do with what happened.

I can still have some trips where they do end up working pretty good,but not like how it used to be.But i still find them unenjoyable due to the music slowdown and lack of visuals.
I am not on any type of meds as of now.

I am figuring that whatever is causing this screw up is also what is causing lack of visuals.

If MDA/K/MXE helps fix most of the problem isn't that somewhat of a lead to what the problem may be? I don't know what is going on when I take psychedelics but all I can say is that the left part of my brain feels weird and it just seems like it doesn't have the juice for trips when this happens or like I mentioned before some wires in my brain are criss crossed in the wrong way.

OH one other thing I forgot to mention about AL-LAD. When the trip was over my brain felt like extremely tired, exactly like how it feels after an MDA trip..like its been overworked.
And also, ever since this happened years ago I haven't touched AL-LAD.

I hope I don't annoy anyone with this thread, I'm just trying to see if anyone has any type of answers that can help lead me to fix this problem.

 

[Dracarys]

Well, Al-LAD is a research chemical so not much is known about it. It is an LSD analogue however. It mimic's the effects of LSD, and LSD is not known to be neurotoxic.MDMA, MDA and DXM are definately neurotoxic. Of many novel NMDA antagonists, neurotoxicity has not been scientifically established, but it is only reasonable to assume that they are about as neurotoxic as more well known relatives like PCP. I find it more likely, if indeed you suffered from som kind of chemically induced damage, that this damage is caused by said substances instead of AL-LAD, and that what you've experienced on AL-LAD is a symptom rather than cause. I've heard of somebody who claims that excessive use of MDA has made him insensitive to psychedelic's.

 

[Dracarys]

What you describe btw, sounds pretty dysphoric. So i'm thinking, it could be a sort of dopamine depletion. Especially because a combination of powerfull dopaminergic substances dó seem to be able to cause some euphoria for you. Maybe taking tyrosine along with the psychedelic of choice could help. I would definately lay off the DXM and the MDA though.

 

[johnload]

Dracarys - All the other stuff I used years after AL-LAD.

When I used AL-Lad the only things I've ever tried was weed,beer,mushrooms,lsd,2cb. Nothing else. No meds,etc. No benzos, No dissociatives.
Also when I used AL-LAD I never even knew how anxiety even felt like either, so I had anxiety free trips..didn't have to start using benzo's till probably a year or so later to bail out of trips that were obviously not working well.

Stuff like MDA,3-meo,mxe,etc I used around 3+ years after AL-LAD.

Next time I go do a trip I will try Tyrosine and see if that works.

Oh ..another thing I remembered too.. is that now I could get tired from tripping..especially with LSD, it would keep me up no problem, now about an hour or so into the trip I start getting tired and sleepy. I never thought when I started I could fall asleep during an LSD trip,but now I can.