Trying to figure out the best drug policy, please suggest.

[JollyRoger85]

Greetings, I am a member of a small political party in the EU and I am trying to come up with a potential drug policy proposition.
So far I see it should have two criteria:
1. it has to work in reducing the amount of people addicted to hard drugs and the hard they are doing.
2. it should not freak out regular voters, who live in the "drugs are bad, okaaaaay" paradigm.

Recently our colleagues tried to decriminalize cannabis, but failed, because most people see it as "marijuana is bad. period."
We were thinking to take a different approach - "yes, marijuana is certainly bad. But does throwing its users in jail make the situation better or worse? Also marijuana is a gateway drug, because it sellers would often lace it with fentanyl, to get people addicted."
So we would suggest legalizing sale of cannabis seeds and cultivation of, for example, 1 plant for personal use. Same could be applied to shrooms and other growable goodies.

As for hard drug users, we would propose looking at them as we look at ill people, alcoholics, gamblers, depressed, etc. , rather then criminals and seek ways to minimize the harm, instead of punishing them.
Probably a good idea might be to make some "treatment centers", where registred addicts would receive free fentanyl patches. Presumably this will crash the drug-market, because addicts would not buy drugs, if they could get them for free from the government.
That way they will keep harming themselves, yet at least they will stop stealing/robbing to support their addiction and drug dealers would go out of business, because they will loose and incentive to make people dependent.

Politicians opposing such proposition might be portrayed as being on a drug-mafia payroll.

What do you think of this ideas? Would a free fentanyl patch be a useful alternative to street drugs, like coke and heroin? ( because proposing giving them for free to registered addicts would freak out the voters )

Thanks!

 

[negrogesic]

Greetings, I am a member of a small political party in the EU and I am trying to come up with a potential drug policy proposition.
So far I see it should have two criteria:
1. it has to work in reducing the amount of people addicted to hard drugs and the hard they are doing.
2. it should not freak out regular voters, who live in the "drugs are bad, okaaaaay" paradigm.

Recently our colleagues tried to decriminalize cannabis, but failed, because most people see it as "marijuana is bad. period."
We were thinking to take a different approach - "yes, marijuana is certainly bad. But does throwing its users in jail make the situation better or worse? Also marijuana is a gateway drug, because it sellers would often lace it with fentanyl, to get people addicted."
So we would suggest legalizing sale of cannabis seeds and cultivation of, for example, 1 plant for personal use. Same could be applied to shrooms and other growable goodies.

As for hard drug users, we would propose looking at them as we look at ill people, alcoholics, gamblers, depressed, etc. , rather then criminals and seek ways to minimize the harm, instead of punishing them.
Probably a good idea might be to make some "treatment centers", where registred addicts would receive free fentanyl patches. Presumably this will crash the drug-market, because addicts would not buy drugs, if they could get them for free from the government.
That way they will keep harming themselves, yet at least they will stop stealing/robbing to support their addiction and drug dealers would go out of business, because they will loose and incentive to make people dependent.

Politicians opposing such proposition might be portrayed as being on a drug-mafia payroll.

What do you think of this ideas? Would a free fentanyl patch be a useful alternative to street drugs, like coke and heroin? ( because proposing giving them for free to registered addicts would freak out the voters )

Thanks!

Fentanyl patches are probably not a good idea given their potential lethality (and general unsuitability for the use in treating opioid addiction). Buprenorphine would be a much safer approach.

 

[Phobos]

Instead of punishing drug users (cannabis or anything else) with prison sentences, remove the prison part for just possession, and allow addicts, once arrested, to receive either detox or maintenance/taper therapies (drugs to be administered by doctors not given away).
Increase prison sentences for criminals selling drugs with active cuts such fentanyl in heroin or cannabis laced with synthetic cannabinoids, or pills containing dangerous drugs such as PMMA instead of MDMA, MDA, Speed, 2C-B etc.
For cannabis only users only remove the possibility to operate drive/operate dangerous machines while under the influence.
Make it the government stance that the war on drug has never worked and has in fact enriched criminal enterprises and endangers the population promoting ignorance.
Give free needles, provide testing services that are anonymous and won't end up with users being arrested ie police should not hang around. Give also a mail service like WEDINOS.
Remove the cause of the situation where addicts do not use or possess scales as that would make them pass as dealers, in fact encourage and promote their use.
Allow the practice of advanced detoxes like Ibogaine detoxes.

 

[Nicomorphinist]

One thing that is probably important is to discard the idea that there are such things as hard and soft drugs. There is no scientific basis for such a classification, so it is often made on a racial, socio-economic basis or to serve the profit motive of the rehab racket.

I would focus on the human right to manage one's own nervous system -- making it primarily about one drug or category thereof like cannabis and the others as an afterthought is not what I would do . . . yes, maybe it is not very toxic, but 80 years of prohibition has been 80 years of a nearly complete research blackout on cannabis, and who is anyone to say with certainty that there are not any nasty surprises waiting for cannabis researchers and high-dose users?

Cannabis advocates throwing opioid and even alcohol folks under the bus as the kids say is the most reprehensible political trend around the world today, as is claming weed is an apples for apples opioid replacement

 

[DrGonzo899]

Your not in any political party are you. This sounds like a school project.

 

[JollyRoger85]

Your not in any political party are you. This sounds like a school project.

All our political system is a failed school project. Really, I had joined what I believed to be the best party, but after a few meetings I understood that our politicians are just a bunch of power-hungry degenerates, who know nothing and just want to control people.

One thing that is probably important is to discard the idea that there are such things as hard and soft drugs.

Well, I would not put heroin and shrooms into the same category, as our country currently has. What about David Nutt's chart?

Buprenorphine would be a much safer approach.

Thanks, I'll look into that. Do you think heroin/crack addicts would be ok to switch to it?

drugs to be administered by doctors not given away

Yes, of course, it should be like a day-treatment center where registered user could come and get their daily shot. just not sure of what. heroin would be to freaked out for the voters, while Buprenorphine and such might not be appealing enough for the addicts.

Increase prison sentences for criminals selling drugs with active cuts

++ totally agree, good idea. voters will like it.

Give free needles, provide testing services that are anonymous and won't end up with users being arrested ie police should not hang around. Give also a mail service like WEDINOS.

Nope, that will freak out the voters too much.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Greetings, I am a member of a small political party in the EU and I am trying to come up with a potential drug policy proposition.
So far I see it should have two criteria:
1. it has to work in reducing the amount of people addicted to hard drugs and the hard they are doing.
2. it should not freak out regular voters, who live in the "drugs are bad, okaaaaay" paradigm.

Recently our colleagues tried to decriminalize cannabis, but failed, because most people see it as "marijuana is bad. period."
We were thinking to take a different approach - "yes, marijuana is certainly bad. But does throwing its users in jail make the situation better or worse? Also marijuana is a gateway drug, because it sellers would often lace it with fentanyl, to get people addicted."
So we would suggest legalizing sale of cannabis seeds and cultivation of, for example, 1 plant for personal use. Same could be applied to shrooms and other growable goodies.

As for hard drug users, we would propose looking at them as we look at ill people, alcoholics, gamblers, depressed, etc. , rather then criminals and seek ways to minimize the harm, instead of punishing them.
Probably a good idea might be to make some "treatment centers", where registred addicts would receive free fentanyl patches. Presumably this will crash the drug-market, because addicts would not buy drugs, if they could get them for free from the government.
That way they will keep harming themselves, yet at least they will stop stealing/robbing to support their addiction and drug dealers would go out of business, because they will loose and incentive to make people dependent.

Politicians opposing such proposition might be portrayed as being on a drug-mafia payroll.

What do you think of this ideas? Would a free fentanyl patch be a useful alternative to street drugs, like coke and heroin? ( because proposing giving them for free to registered addicts would freak out the voters )

Thanks!

WOW! Colour me super-impressed! You may very well be the first politician I have ever heard from who comes across as very reasonable, open-minded and intelligent. What a pleasure it was to read your post.
I completely agree with all your idea's. While I'm not a heroin addict, I am addicted to prescription opioids (Dihydrocodeine, morphine, oxycodone, etc) which started when I was hospitalized and given IV morphine every 4 hours for 10 weeks and sent home with a high-dose oxycodone prescription.
The Fentanyl patch idea is perfect, to me. I actually asked my doctor about it a few years ago, but he wasn't willing. If I was given a free fentanyl patch every 3 days (they last 72 hours) I would be able to greatly reduce my use of illegally-obtained opiates and it would be an enormous relief not to worry about withdrawal all the time. If this were offered, I can assure you I'd be first in line.

 

[Nicomorphinist]

Most of all of harm to self and pretty much all of it to others is economic at root -- as I said elsewhere, unless it is a cirrhotic liver from drinking alcohol or lung cancer from smoking tobacco or other things with nitrosamines and benzopyrine production, it is extremely uncommon for users to have a drugs problem -- they have supply chain and cash flow problems, maybe some quality control problems on occasion. That's economic too.

There is no justification for the hard/soft drugs classification. Natural and semi-synthetic opiates like whole opium, smack, morphine and so on are very well-known, complete-synthesisable, actually rather boring, and low-toxicity molecules with effects better described as subtle except with unwise indiscriminate poly-drug use, and/or synthetic imitators like fentanyl, and the only real organic damage potential is from sepsis from using unsterilised needles. Alcohol is purpose-made by yeast as their Weapon of Mass Destruction, Vonnegut's eloquent description of it as yeast excrement notwithstanding, and its effects on the human liver are not any more benevolent, and there simply is too ,much missing research on cannabis and some other drugs to assert anything. I am inclined to think, but I am guessing to an extent, that maybe even the most sanguine speculations about DMT and related compounds are probably true and just the beginning, but that has nothing to do with narcotic users or benzodiazepine people or lushes, and vice versa.

Government officials, police, and others should have to take samples of every controlled substance in their locale and stoke up a 500 mg/dl drunkenness session as part of their training. People pontificating about drugs they have no idea about is the root of a lot of this. Truly destructive things like sniffing petrol and epoxy glue are strongly self-limiting, and there is a reason they haven't caught on already -- they don't do it for the people who seek it out, or it makes them sick afterwards.

 

[JollyRoger85]

Thank you for your support!
I am not sure if I would see myself as a politician, I'm more of an average guy with a small business, who after listening to lots of Jordan Peterson decided to take on more responsibility and joined a political party.
After hearing party bosses talk, when they think nobody is listening, I got disillusioned pretty quickly. Mostly they wanted to get more political power by introducing 'hidden' taxes and then playing Santa-Claus with other people's money.

So far it seems that the best approach for be would be to stick with them for a few more month and then, if I would be able to put myself very well together, to start my own party. In this small European country it is normal, new parties are often formed and old ones disappear. It's not a two party system like in the US or UK.

My platform would be more of a libertarian one, i.e. people are free to live however they please, as long as they don't harm others.
- Taxes should be not only kept to the very minimum, but also made completely transparent and understandable to people. Because now people can pay over 66% in taxes without even realizing it and becoming dependent on government handouts.
- Government should maintain freedom of the individual, protecting it from both the "dictate of the majority", as well as "dictate of the minority" - i.e. when some freak screams that he is offended and now everybody has to bend backwards to accommodate him.
- Since people who are using whatever substances are not harming other, government should not see them as criminals, more like patients that need help in severe cases.

If you have any ideas that might sound beneficial, please share!

Sorry for the stupid question, have you tried kicking the addiction? I heard ibugaine and other psychedelics might help...

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Thank you for your support!
I am not sure if I would see myself as a politician, I'm more of an average guy with a small business, who after listening to lots of Jordan Peterson decided to take on more responsibility and joined a political party.
After hearing party bosses talk, when they think nobody is listening, I got disillusioned pretty quickly. Mostly they wanted to get more political power by introducing 'hidden' taxes and then playing Santa-Claus with other people's money.

So far it seems that the best approach for be would be to stick with them for a few more month and then, if I would be able to put myself very well together, to start my own party. In this small European country it is normal, new parties are often formed and old ones disappear. It's not a two party system like in the US or UK.

My platform would be more of a libertarian one, i.e. people are free to live however they please, as long as they don't harm others.
- Taxes should be not only kept to the very minimum, but also made completely transparent and understandable to people. Because now people can pay over 66% in taxes without even realizing it and becoming dependent on government handouts.
- Government should maintain freedom of the individual, protecting it from both the "dictate of the majority", as well as "dictate of the minority" - i.e. when some freak screams that he is offended and now everybody has to bend backwards to accommodate him.
- Since people who are using whatever substances are not harming other, government should not see them as criminals, more like patients that need help in severe cases.

If you have any ideas that might sound beneficial, please share!

Sorry for the stupid question, have you tried kicking the addiction? I heard ibugaine and other psychedelics might help...

Personally, I have had a traumatic life and so have unbearable mental pain. Opiates take that away for me and help me feel better so I don't ever want to come off them. I would like a base, long-acting opiate to prevent withdrawal and to help control how much I use, though.

 

[JollyRoger85]

I see, I also had some past trauma that seems to be preventing me from living to the fullest. Luckily not to such degree that it would require opiates, but still sucks.
I was looking a for cures of this PTSD/anxiety-like state and found many reports of psychedelics being able to take the mental pain away. Expecting to try them out shortly.

 

[Nicomorphinist]

This is why many assert that much unsupervised narcotic and benzodiazepine use, and a fair amount of stimulant use, is justifiable self-medication. It is not the users' fault that doctors are betwixt a rock and a hard place and pharmaceutical concerns took a wrong turn into second-generation antidepressants that have a higher impact, worse safety profile, and much worse withdrawal syndrome than a lot of narcotics . . . fixing that problem is important -- depression is amazingly common, has lots of unexpected varieties, hurts like the dickens and can fully incapacitate people, and adding that all together is like a hole from a Phillips head screwdriver in a tyre for the national economy in question . . .

 

[JollyRoger85]

This is why many assert that much unsupervised narcotic and benzodiazepine use, and a fair amount of stimulant use, is justifiable self-medication. It is not the users' fault that doctors are betwixt a rock and a hard place and pharmaceutical concerns took a wrong turn into second-generation antidepressants that have a higher impact, worse safety profile, and much worse withdrawal syndrome than a lot of narcotics . . . fixing that problem is important -- depression is amazingly common, has lots of unexpected varieties, hurts like the dickens and can fully incapacitate people, and adding that all together is like a hole from a Phillips head screwdriver in a tyre for the national economy in question . . .

Yes, it seems so that most of narcotic and even alcohol users are trying to numb their internal pain/ptsd. Expecting to try psychedelics for it soon, hope they will help.

 

[Nicomorphinist]

The PTSD situation in a lot of countries is a scandal and there are even cases of ill-treated physical battle injuries on top of it. The really troubling thing is that there are politicians and others who seem to doubt there is even such a thing as PTSD . . . yes, indeed there is -- I think it has been known at least since Biblical times and 100 years ago it was called Shell Shock . . .

 

[JollyRoger85]

Yes, and even more - it doesn't take a war or a single traumatic event to get PTSD. If a person is susceptible, even really minor bullying in school might give him ptsd and prepare for a dark path.

 

[Zonxx]

theres really only one policy that i apply to my own use of illicit narcotics including my prescribed opiates
1. Don't be a fucking moron, MODERATION is the only thing that can allow someone to maintain recreational use and be safe and moderation does not only mean Amount of used substance, it is also the amount of Tolerable substance taken which is different for each individual.

all too often do people think getting 'high'(which i know is not a term we like to use on BL but in this case it's neccesary) is the most important part of using a drug recreationally when the real imporant step especially with hard drugs is fucking safety and safety like above turns into MODERATION.

for some substances while taking large doses as an initial tactic to get the most out of them, if you think you can handle for example 50mg so the next time you use you take 150, you deserve whats coming, and im sorry for anyone who disagrees because its this very reason there is an opiate 'epidemic' that is full on bullshit while yes cut heroin with fent/carfent is also to blame, the majority of these users even purchasing bad product can mitigate the risks using less instead of going out insearch of the biggest bang.

you can always get a rush, but you can do this and not keel over at the same time.

if drugs are legalized the only way to ensure safety is to advertise moderation and safety just like 'drink responsibly' well 'Drug responsibly' should be a thing.
because lawmakers create laws based on addictive potential this is most likely not going to change any time soon.. the fact that alcohol can be just as destructing and harmful as cocaine and heroin, people need to educate themselves and open their freaking eyes.

annnnnd holy shit. i hope my views spread because this is too damn real.

I hope to one day see all drugs be decriminalized and legal. do i think i'll ever witness it in my lifetime? No the reason is people seem to be constantly fed the propaganda that drugs are bad, while in essence it should be ADDICTION is bad, not drugs.

 

[Nicomorphinist]

It sounds like PTSD can be precipitated or made more likely by either an extreme overloading of the nervous system with noxious input which ramps up very rapidly and continues for minutes to weeks -- which explains how waking up under general anaesthesia is a rather likely cause too -- but also by the same kind of thing which also leads to the system being loaded with cortisol, acetylcholine, ACTH, norepinephrine and everything else at moderate intensity many, many times, the bullying cases, and people who have to sleep in the pantry in their house because there is always shooting going on outside at night.

I have had, as have others, a rough idea of possible peri-exposure protocols in the former case, which also includes the very common active shooter situations some places, such as a weak or midrange opioid like DHC, a beta blocker like propranolol, and any stimulant or tranquilliser to achieve the needed level of concentration, then ketamine afterwards, perhaps transmucousally. The bully type cases seem like a much harder nut to crack, and at least I finally see discussions of prevention, which were very uncommon even as recently as the school shooting case in Colorado 20 years ago.

 

[JollyRoger85]

I hope to one day see all drugs be decriminalized and legal. do i think i'll ever witness it in my lifetime? No the reason is people seem to be constantly fed the propaganda that drugs are bad, while in essence it should be ADDICTION is bad, not drugs.

Not sure if legalizing opioids would be a good idea, because sellers would try to push them on people, who might not be aware of risks and become addicted. Better to just decriminalize personal use and have government facilities hand them out for free to people, who are already addicted...

 

[Nicomorphinist]

People are going to do something which makes them feel good again, which is why something as euphorigenic as THC or apparently as life-changing as DMT or shrooms could not possibly be non-habituating, and why people heroically ignore the naysayers and fuck teachers and bosses and politicians and journalists and peoples' mothers . . . but who cares? I mean aside from the government and other gangsters like the rehab indu$try . . . I have a cast iron stomach for corruption, but the latter literally make me sick. I would classify myself as a left-wing Christian Democrat, but the rehab gangsters' excesses seem to be making me into an anarcho-syndicalist . . . . I hear about these interventions that the rehab equivalent of Mafia street crews and ignoramuses do on loved ones and others, and I would think any competent medical body would pull the licence of any professional willing to take a case which involved such a thoroughgoing and clear-cut violation of human rights . . . where's all the strong ethics anymore?

The body already makes morphine, codeine, DMT, benzodiazepine analogues and a lot more, though, like Vitamin D, not enough, or in some cases like Vitamin C, Homo sapiens Linnaeus 1753 is the only mammal unable to make it -- so those drugs are vitamins and minerals, and hormones -- just about time for my 16.00 Vitamin M . . . . . . there we go, got the register . . . . . . aaaaaaahhhhhh here comes the pins & needles O FUCK! heheheheheheee ahahahaa! You know, nicomorphine which I take at bedtime and for breakthrough pain actually is made with Vitamin B₃ . . .

And doing drugs is just a hobby -- what would people do if the cops did a Rodney King on train spotters and people who collect stamps and snowboard?

 

[JollyRoger85]

Well, snowboarding is certainly more dangerous, then weed or shrooms for certain.