Opioids Treatments for symptoms of opioid withdrawal?

[Rafayte]

A benzodiacepine for anxiety and insomnia, doxylamine for sleep with the benzo, clonidine because relieve several symptoms and at night help to sleep, loperamide for diarrhea, domperidone for nausea, dexketoprofen for pain and ciclobenzaprine for muscular tension and spasms

 

[Rafayte]

Or only codeine in doses lower every day

 

[motiv311]

I just kicked "cold turkey" from 45 mgs of methadone, to zero...... I used a mushroom trip and about 3 grams of meth to do it..... now its been six weeks... no opiates, before it was a 6 year run

 

[Michael1706]

I just kicked "cold turkey" from 45 mgs of methadone, to zero...... I used a mushroom trip and about 3 grams of meth to do it..... now its been six weeks... no opiates, before it was a 6 year run

Are you serious? That's a hell of an accomplishment. Cause methadone is the worst of all opiods to quit due to extremely long half life.
Cold turkey especially. There are reports of people quitting a moderate dosage of methadone cold turkey and giving up after weeks of no ending pain.

Maybe you're lucky? Or the mushrooms could have had an extremely beneficial effect on your brain chemistry. Other than that I have no explanation.

In fact I'd rather recommend kicking off Heroine than methadone if you go cold turkey.
And for a bad H or other opioid habit. If you want to detox slowly....NO METHADONE if you have the choice. Either Burprenorphine or morphine.

 

[Hatter]

It is not at all like PCP. It is comforting and administered in a controlled setting and is the ONLY thing I know that could even approach handling a habit of your size. 100mg of fentanyl DAILY?! that's absolutely over the top. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this but like, at that level I don't think 16mg of suboxone would even cover it. Obviously no matter what you're going to have to taper... maybe eventually switch to morphine or something and continue tapering from there. that's a wicked, wicked habit you have. sorry about that ;( let us know if you get out of this one ok. Seriously think about the ibogaine. It takes the withdrawal away and is not a scary experience, although not necessarily easy either. my .02 ymmv

Thank you, cdin.

 

[Hatter]

A benzodiacepine for anxiety and insomnia, doxylamine for sleep with the benzo, clonidine because relieve several symptoms and at night help to sleep, loperamide for diarrhea, domperidone for nausea, dexketoprofen for pain and ciclobenzaprine for muscular tension and spasms

That sounds wonderful, but I don't have any way of getting these medicines. I wish I did. But I guess I will have to hope that if I end up getting offered treatment, that the people will have just a bit of a clue of what to do for me. But I doubt they will have the experience of the people writing in this forum.

 

[Hatter]

It’s true what they say: all good things come with time. Pls just try not to rush through this OP. Better to take your time and figure it out instead of getting into the position where you end up relapsing because it gets too uncomfortable rushing or something.

Yes, I will wait and see what they will come up with, if anything. I am still not sure they will offer me any treatment, because now I have been referred back to the original psychiatrist who referred me on to the psychiatric center. He was a guy who when he first saw me, he said "I wonder why you were referred to me. I know nothing about addiction."

He's the guy who is now supposed to put together a treatment-offer for me. But he was also a guy who told me, he wasn't really sure I was addicted to fentanyl. Well, it's a long, sad story. Who knows how it will end?

I may end up having to do this on my own, anyway. Just like I have had to do almost everything on my own, throughout my life. What I and my mother have received in understanding and support from authorities (school, psychologists, government, etc.) amounts to a big, fat zero.

I guess I was born 10 years too early. Everything seems to happen long after I needed it. Like understanding about Asperger's, etc.

What's really sad, is that the knowledge exists! It just doesn't get to where it's needed. To think of all the taxes my mother has payed throughout her life. What we have to show for it is darned little. When SHE finally needed help, it was curiously absent.

Fuck them.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I’m sorry to hear that Hatter, does not sound like fun.

Still, it would be worth trying to enlist your current doctors support (sometimes doctors who don’t specialize in addiction are the most supportive, as they haven’t been brainwashed by conventional wisdom).

Maybe you could buy a drug testing kit somewhere, like online, that tests for fent. Then you could bring it to your next appointment, show him the unopened package and receipt for it, just to prove it’s genuine, then do the test while you’re at their office.

And that could be a good time to bring some research on how to taper and detox from opioids, highlighting the gabapentin/clonidine/benzo combo, or at least detailing the symptoms of withdrawal they will need to treat.

Iono, sounds like a tough situation. Maybe he will refer you to another doctor who can help you, as opposed to the last one who just sent you back to your GP?

If you get desperate or frustrated with it all, tapering the fent will be really really important. Have you tried seeing what that is like?

Depending in the laws where you live, maybe you could order poppy pods or tramadol online somehow (how I don’t know and we can’t discussion specifics related to here)? Long shot, but it would probably be worth the effort. Poppies would probably be best, but tramadol should help a bit.

But it’s still important you try and find the more standard comfort meds like gabapentin/clonidine.

I have little free time atm, but I’m still gonna try to do some research into clinics in your country.

 

[Hatter]

Thanks for your empathy. Sorry to spill my depression all over you guys like this. I wish things didn't have to be this way.

If you get desperate or frustrated with it all, tapering the fent will be really really important. Have you tried seeing what that is like?

It's been many years since I gave it a lot of effort, because it never seemed to work. No matter what strategy I tried, each day ended with me having taken more or less exactly same amount as if I didn't try at all!

The only times it seemed to change things, was if I had run out one day, and then couldn't be bothered to get some more - then I would end up having taken less that day.

But all the conscious efforts I tried - it seems like thousands of times - it never changed a thing.

Any change seemed to be more related to just my overall psychological strength. Some periods, I just took less, and other periods I took more. But I didn't feel I had any active control over it.

I am very much a slave to my habits. Whenever I have started a new habit, it seems I am powerless to do anything about it. I don't know why. I have always had bad habits, like eating too much chocolate, etc. But I used to have at least SOME control over things. The only thing I can guess, is that my "frontal cortex" (or whatever part of the brain controls decision making) is so dulled down from the fentanyl, that it makes it difficult to control the impulses from other parts of the brain?

I do have some recollection that it was easier to control myself, when my daily dosage was maybe in the 10-20 mg. But that's many years ago. And it would only last a couple of days, and then I would take too much one day, and my mind would get all blurry again, and then I'd lose my sense of focus and determination, and I would just let things go. I would feel bad about it, and like a complete failure, but I just couldn't seem to focus the energies which needed to be focused to change my habits - and that's why it would just go on and on, for months. Until some random event would change things for me - like I would run out one day, or something would happen which would make me happy, and snap me out of my hum-drum daily repetition of doing and thinking nothing new.


----



The few times I managed not follow the daily habit, was if I was out somewhere. To a family dinner, or something. Then I wouldn't take fentanyl, and I wouldn't even think of it, until I got back to my home.

Then, settling in, I think, "aw, I really SHOULD try to not take anything - just for this one day," but inevitably I would fail, and I would take it. That's how my habit controls me, and I have no control over it or myself.

When I am in that situation, it's like the thought of going to sleep without having taken fentanyl, makes me feel very uneasy and "raw". Probably because it's what I have done every day for 10 years, so it feels strange not doing it.

My habit is the same everyday. I used to take fentanyl from the moment I woke up, but for the last 6 years, I don't feel I need to take anything until 6 o'clock in the evening, or rather, after I have eaten. It's a psychological thing. After dinner, it begins to feel like the day is closing down, and I need something to comfort me, as I recline to watch television for the evening.

I start with a dilute solution, and it gets more and more concentrated as the evening progresses.

Once I have started, I can't stop.

A few times, once in a while, I will not take something straight after dinner, and I won't notice a desire to. If I am having a very nice day, or something different has happened that day, But then, the moment I DO begin, which I inevitably do, I quickly make up for those hours I didn't take any, and end up having taken the same.

Only a very few times, when I only began very late - maybe an hour before bedtime - did I manage to take only maybe half of my usual daily intake.


-----

However, I WILL try again. For some of this to work, it seems to be important - for me, at least - to avoid becoming "stuck" or feeling that I am doing the same thing every day, because that's when my mind stops working, and the force of the habits take charge of my thoughts. However, I also have to have SOME relaxation or "doing nothing", because otherwise I get stressed pretty quickly, and that ALSO has a negative influence on me, and also gives me "tunnel-vision", so I can't see a bigger picture, but only little details I happen to focus on at that moment.

I need a kind of daily rhythm, so that I can allow myself to sometimes be active and think, and then give myself permission to relax and not think of everything. And sometimes do things quickly, sometimes slowly. Something like that.

But it's difficult to maintain, because of all my habits which tend to take over from my good intentions. It seems I can't lose track for more than a day or so, or I will completely lose the road I was on.

And difficult when I am stressed and have to deal with the outside world, because my brain-power is so sparse, that I can't both take care of myself and take care of the externals at the same time.



As I said, it's been years since I really tried. I haven't felt a "direction", and I couldn't see the "end point" for so long, that I couldn't get myself to muster the effort to try again.

But it IS all "just" psychological. And maybe I can find the right mix of thoughts and actions and focusing to make this boat turn, and be able to try again.

 

[Hatter]

Just one more question.

What does gabapentin do during opioid withdrawal which is so beneficial?

What does it help with, or against?

 

[motiv311]

you guys need to stop FEARING the withdrawal so much.... after being numbed on opiates for so long try and see it as a new and possibly exciting experience..... while your body may be sick, you are gonna be infused with new feelings of energy and emotions that you had all but forgot about.... its a mentality... there is no "secret" to a painless withdrawal..... keith richards said it best, "you need 3 days, thats all"

 

[Jabberwocky]

Thanks for your empathy. Sorry to spill my depression all over you guys like this. I wish things didn't have to be this way.



It's been many years since I gave it a lot of effort, because it never seemed to work. No matter what strategy I tried, each day ended with me having taken more or less exactly same amount as if I didn't try at all!

The only times it seemed to change things, was if I had run out one day, and then couldn't be bothered to get some more - then I would end up having taken less that day.

But all the conscious efforts I tried - it seems like thousands of times - it never changed a thing.

Any change seemed to be more related to just my overall psychological strength. Some periods, I just took less, and other periods I took more. But I didn't feel I had any active control over it.

I am very much a slave to my habits. Whenever I have started a new habit, it seems I am powerless to do anything about it. I don't know why. I have always had bad habits, like eating too much chocolate, etc. But I used to have at least SOME control over things. The only thing I can guess, is that my "frontal cortex" (or whatever part of the brain controls decision making) is so dulled down from the fentanyl, that it makes it difficult to control the impulses from other parts of the brain?

I do have some recollection that it was easier to control myself, when my daily dosage was maybe in the 10-20 mg. But that's many years ago. And it would only last a couple of days, and then I would take too much one day, and my mind would get all blurry again, and then I'd lose my sense of focus and determination, and I would just let things go. I would feel bad about it, and like a complete failure, but I just couldn't seem to focus the energies which needed to be focused to change my habits - and that's why it would just go on and on, for months. Until some random event would change things for me - like I would run out one day, or something would happen which would make me happy, and snap me out of my hum-drum daily repetition of doing and thinking nothing new.


----



The few times I managed not follow the daily habit, was if I was out somewhere. To a family dinner, or something. Then I wouldn't take fentanyl, and I wouldn't even think of it, until I got back to my home.

Then, settling in, I think, "aw, I really SHOULD try to not take anything - just for this one day," but inevitably I would fail, and I would take it. That's how my habit controls me, and I have no control over it or myself.

When I am in that situation, it's like the thought of going to sleep without having taken fentanyl, makes me feel very uneasy and "raw". Probably because it's what I have done every day for 10 years, so it feels strange not doing it.

My habit is the same everyday. I used to take fentanyl from the moment I woke up, but for the last 6 years, I don't feel I need to take anything until 6 o'clock in the evening, or rather, after I have eaten. It's a psychological thing. After dinner, it begins to feel like the day is closing down, and I need something to comfort me, as I recline to watch television for the evening.

I start with a dilute solution, and it gets more and more concentrated as the evening progresses.

Once I have started, I can't stop.

A few times, once in a while, I will not take something straight after dinner, and I won't notice a desire to. If I am having a very nice day, or something different has happened that day, But then, the moment I DO begin, which I inevitably do, I quickly make up for those hours I didn't take any, and end up having taken the same.

Only a very few times, when I only began very late - maybe an hour before bedtime - did I manage to take only maybe half of my usual daily intake.


-----

However, I WILL try again. For some of this to work, it seems to be important - for me, at least - to avoid becoming "stuck" or feeling that I am doing the same thing every day, because that's when my mind stops working, and the force of the habits take charge of my thoughts. However, I also have to have SOME relaxation or "doing nothing", because otherwise I get stressed pretty quickly, and that ALSO has a negative influence on me, and also gives me "tunnel-vision", so I can't see a bigger picture, but only little details I happen to focus on at that moment.

I need a kind of daily rhythm, so that I can allow myself to sometimes be active and think, and then give myself permission to relax and not think of everything. And sometimes do things quickly, sometimes slowly. Something like that.

But it's difficult to maintain, because of all my habits which tend to take over from my good intentions. It seems I can't lose track for more than a day or so, or I will completely lose the road I was on.

And difficult when I am stressed and have to deal with the outside world, because my brain-power is so sparse, that I can't both take care of myself and take care of the externals at the same time.



As I said, it's been years since I really tried. I haven't felt a "direction", and I couldn't see the "end point" for so long, that I couldn't get myself to muster the effort to try again.

But it IS all "just" psychological. And maybe I can find the right mix of thoughts and actions and focusing to make this boat turn, and be able to try again.

That’s a prettt incredible post. Thank you.

And you have nothing to apologize for, talking this stuff out with people is an important function of BL, far from doing us harm it’s what we kinda live for

Gabapentin does a number of things for withdrawal, it treat a lot of symptoms actually. Here is an example (not the best study with a small sample size, but it’s a start): https://journals.lww.com/psychophar...=2011&issue=10000&article=00009&type=Abstract

Would you mind if I move this to SL op? It would probably help get you more support as yourself as you deal with this stuff.

Imho it’s only natural to feel fear with this stuff. But hopefully the more you understand the less fear there is. It’s hard to get past the fear until one realizes it’s reasonable to do so though, so I hope you are able to make some progress with a doctor and get some meds or at least access to treatment you want.

From the little research I did yesterday about treatment in your country it does look like you have options with buprenorphine and methadone. Just sounds like it’ll be a bit of a trek finding a doctor...

Especially it’s your have largely avoided withdrawal and don’t have a lot of experience with what the withdrawal will be. So it ends up being a lot about uncertainty related to the unknown. That’s part of the reason it can be helpful learning more about it all, more awareness means a little less (sometime a lot less) suffering with this stuff.

Good luck dude!

 

[Rafayte]

Or only codeine in doses lower every day

Or only dry poppy heads tea three times a day using 10-15 grams per tea. Dry poppy heads (not harvested) contain 0'3-1% morphine

 

[Bomb319]

It sounds like your bad trip led to severe but classic derealization/depersonalization disorder. As horrifying as the symptoms are, it's actually quite common and is continued by severe anxiety. I had something similar (but much milder and shorter lasting) after my first experience on weed, of all things. It must've been very strong, because I had closed eye visuals and even some open-eye of complex, geometric patterns and shit. My mouth went so dry I thought my tongue had disappeared. The next day at work, these symptoms came back despite the fact that the weed (smoked) should've worn off long ago! It was scary as fuck and I worried/obsessed about it for months.

I've done most drugs out there except for psychedelics - largely for this reason. They scare the hell out of me, and the thought of losing my mind, the way I think and perceive, even temporarily is too much for me to deal with.

 

[BF2000]

Hey Hatter. I hope you the best of luck.

I see you've gotten a bunch of information, so I'll make it quick.

Sometimes getting so much information just makes things more difficult than it needs to be.

It is just my opinion, but I think your best bet is suboxone treatment is your best option. Just makesure to check with the rehab facility that it works for Fent withdrawl, since I know Fent is much stronger than opiod pills.

Good luck and God be with you.



"My heart goes out to you! I have been on Suboxone several times over the past 10 years and it worked very well. I have gone off Percocet, MsContin, Opana ER and a few others. You need to have your doctor supervise you while you're first going into withdrawal or you might want to look into a rehab facility. I never had the money for rehab and some do accept insurance. You will need to find a doctor in your area who prescribes Suboxone and you can find that info at www.suboxone.com ~ You will experience withdrawal for about 24 hours and once they give you Suboxone it acts within about 20 minutes to relieve all symptoms of withdrawal. Hope this helps you."

 

[whos there]

have you considered an anesthetised medically supervised detox? thats where they put you under and administer naltrexone while your unconscious, flushing all the bullshit out in a matter of hours. if youre taking a point of fent a day, i really doubt a few clonidine and gabas will do much. you essentially want to be as close to unconscious as possible for the first week...this wont sound like harm reduction, but literally handfulls of benzos everyday would be just the start. high doses of clonidine to drop your blood pressure so you cant feel the symptoms, unfortunately you wont be able to feel/do much of anything. you want to put yourself into a kind of waking coma, as close to sleep as you can get. id rec dxm in high doses but it sounds like youre put off by psychedelics, so really mass amounts of sedatives is what you want if you cant go under anasthesia.

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

"Handfuls" of benzos sounds like massive polydrug W/D if you can't sustain it and no room for more relief as you progress into W/D, without even getting into the danger aspect of blackout while experiencing heavy hypotension or worse. The postural hypotension alone means not being able to stand and piss. Intense Fent W/D is one of those where DIY at home detox gets dicey.

 

[whos there]

yea youre right i knew i shoulda worded that better, ive been up for a few days. mostly just meant to suggest knock yourself out with like 6-8mg klonopin, for example. not downing a script and eating too much clonidine, which is the hardest part dealing with blood pressure issues. but if medically supervised detox isnt an option youre most likely looking at a heroic home detox, theres really no "right" way to come off big doses of fentanyl. theres safer ways, but safe isnt always the most comfortable

 

[Nether Animal]

Keif Richards making the most sense, as usual. Get pregablin, or gabapentin if you can't find the former. Clonidine would be a desirable adjunct. Those alone would do more than any concoction of benzos, immodium, disassociatives, etc. Don't gotta wait until you are in the worst of the jonesing; just start dosing a few hours before things start to get hairy. Plus you aren't taking a lesser opioid that is only drawing out the process.

Not sure why this is still so difficult to get an answer to.

 

[Rafayte]

For opioid withdrawal the best is a benzodiacepine for anxiety and insomnia, the best is alprazolam but anyone works. Then desketoprofen for the pain mainly in legs and back. Too is helpful domperidone for nausea and diarrhea. Clonidine kills several symptoms at the same time. If you can't get clonidine tizanidine is a substitute