Social Trans People & Dating Apps (Offshoot Thread from Gay Guys Thread)

[Eligiu]

Did he really just give up because there was too much text? he's always mentioning how clever he is yet can't digest a four minute read? or perhaps he's so busy fighting those post-modern neo-marxists he just can't spare the time.

Reading is for dumb dumbs.

 

[Foreigner]

Your post was literally 7000 words. And like your previous posts, there is so much rambling and personal anecdote. Why can't you just discuss the points instead of going on and on about your trauma? I'm not your therapist. Not that I am not sympathetic, but honestly we could have this conversation without all that. I'll read your somewhat shorter posts that you made after, when I have some time later. It's not just the length it's also the way you write, I find it exhausting and that can't be helped. I'm volunteering my time by visiting here and having these conversations. I enjoy them but I have my limits. Cheers.

 

[Eligiu]

Your post was literally 7000 words. And like your previous posts, there is so much rambling and personal anecdote. Why can't you just discuss the points instead of going on and on about your trauma? I'm not your therapist. Not that I am not sympathetic, but honestly we could have this conversation without all that. I'll read your somewhat shorter posts that you made after, when I have some time later. It's not just the length it's also the way you write, I find it exhausting and that can't be helped. I'm volunteering my time by visiting here and having these conversations. I enjoy them but I have my limits. Cheers.

I was actually talking about you in most of it lmao damn son. Because you were being transphobic. There was zero trauma in there about me. For someone who constantly talks about how smart he is when someone points out in explicit detail the many inconsistencies in your arguement, then does it again shorter but you find yet another excuse not to read it that hardly helps your claim.

Smart people don't usually need to go around telling people how smart they are. Because they know that annoys people. And if they're not that smart and they do that, it ends up pretty funny for everyone else. The type of people who announce how smart they are to everyone are people who *think* they are smarter than everyone else.

If you don't want to learn how to be less transphobic then fine, don't read me criticising your opinions.

'I find it exhausting and that can't be helped' means 'look, I'm very smart.'

 

[AbbeyLee]

@Foreigner

Like, @mal3volent and I are actually soulmates. We are meant to be together, spending our days playing animal crossing on the front porch while the sun sets over our cottage in the conservative American midwest. A dramatic intercontinental romance, trans and cis prevented only by the fact that I will never have $90,000 in my bank account to pay for my phalloplasty. So alas, he remains out of my reach and I spend my days in homoerotic longing for the man who showed me the world of animal crossing and we share our love.

Like for real, I'm actually fine with cis people who have a genital preference. It bothers me not. It's been a decade now I can't be fucked over stuff I can't change. If someone wants to see if they like my junk then sure, I'll facilitate that happening but I don't go around telling Mal that he needs to want to sleep with me or he's transphobic. Literally the first conversation I ever had with him on the discord was him asking me whether it was transphobic to not want to have sex with a trans man if he didn't have a penis and I immediately said no, because it's not. It becomes transphobic at the point where they then have a penis, and you shift the goalposts and say 'wait no you need to be a natal male' because it's not cock you want, it's that you don't want to fuck a trans person.

And whatever man, you do you. But it is transphobic. Because it's our status as a trans person that is off-putting to you. And I think I could state with relative certainty that if in the future surgeons are able to construct such a realistic looking penis for trans men that we pass as cisgender men in every way shape and form, that you would STILL refuse to sleep with one.

And the actual reason for that, which you haven't outright said but it is clear as fucking day to anyone who can put it together, is that you don't consider us real men. You still consider us women. And that is transphobic.

The only people who use the phrase 'real man' when talking to me are literally always transphobes, every single time. Not once has it been an ally, it's always a transphobic comment.

So honestly man I don't really know why you bother saying nice stuff about trans people at all, I actually really prefer outright people who know they're transphobic and proclaim it loudly, that way I know to give them the widest berth I possibly can. You on the other hand, it's far more insidious, because you act as though you don't hold animosity towards us, say things like you would fight for us in a trans holocaust, say nice things to us. Honestly just drop the facade and join the rest of them, you're not an ally and you never will be, not with the views you hold.

This has literally been the most weird transphobic encounter I've ever had because I came in friendly and polite since I got infracted last time for being rude to a transphobe and even still the transphobe can't be bothered to be respectful in anyway.

It isn't that you don't want to be friends with trans people my dude, trans people don't want to be friends with you. I wouldn't want to be, not after that spectacular cringe fest of hot takes and some bizarre accusation of me being homophobic. Literally point at anything I said which is homophobic. Was it me saying genitals don't have much to do with sexuality? Well they don't, if you're bisexual like me. Nor do they if you're a gay guy who will fuck a trans man or a straight guy who would fuck a trans woman.

Understand that you are not part of the majority where this is concerned. Your group is small, and there's far more people in the world who don't much care about genitals since most people are some form of bisexual. It's not all about you, like you want trans people to do all these ridiculous things for you, you, you. So YOU aren't uncomfortable. So YOU aren't turned off. So YOU don't find a tranny attractive. So YOU never have to out yourself as a bigot. So YOU never get put in a difficult situation.

And what do we get? A high chance of verbal discrimination, possible risk of physical violence, chance of murder.

Yeah, that totally sounds like something an ally would want for a community they 'support' like come off it stop even pretending, it's embarrassing and I don't even want any of your nice comments you threw in after you misgendered me, I don't want your false kindness you use to shield your bigotry. Just call me a freak tranny and get it over with, then at least that way I can respect you.

Wait, are you female to male trans?

 

[Eligiu]

Wait, are you female to male trans?

Yes, that is the joke.

 

[AbbeyLee]

Yes, that is the joke.

F to M is way more common now and is behind a lot of controversy in Sweden (and a couple of other Euro countries?) Even knowing that I still assume M to F. Interesting.

 

[~Winterborn~]

Your post was literally 7000 words. And like your previous posts, there is so much rambling and personal anecdote. Why can't you just discuss the points instead of going on and on about your trauma? I'm not your therapist. Not that I am not sympathetic, but honestly we could have this conversation without all that. I'll read your somewhat shorter posts that you made after, when I have some time later. It's not just the length it's also the way you write, I find it exhausting and that can't be helped. I'm volunteering my time by visiting here and having these conversations. I enjoy them but I have my limits. Cheers.

After you said you would not read it he wrote a shorter post you're currently ignoring. I fully understand not having time to reply till later but you've come into the thread to say you're not replying till later, not to share personal anecdotes(which he barely did) & strongly criticised his writing style as hard to read. Then you add that you're giving up your precious time to post like we should be grateful.

You could have just said "I'm busy, I'll reply later" but you can't do that because you're too obnoxious.

 

[AbbeyLee]

Cis men probably feel more threatened by you than me, and that's a scary thought.

 

[Eligiu]

F to M is way more common now and is behind a lot of controversy in Sweden (and a couple of other Euro countries?) Even knowing that I still assume M to F. Interesting.

It's becoming more common because up until fairly recently (and this also is why I transitioned at 19 so almost a decade ago) trans men were largely invisible. No representation in media, nothing on TV, barely any movies. Very few famous people. I figured out I was trans when I met the first trans guy I ever met. I always knew you could transition from male to female but not female to male. So once I knew, it literally explained everything.

Increase in visibility means more people are aware we exist. This results in the same thing that happened to me, more people realise they're a trans man.

 

[Eligiu]

Cis men probably feel more threatened by you than me, and that's a scary thought.

Probably, but I've long since stopped caring what cis men I am not good friends with think about me. Usually it isn't positive.

 

[Eligiu]

After you said you would not read it he wrote a shorter post you're currently ignoring. I fully understand not having time to reply till later but you've come into the thread to say you're not replying till later, not to share personal anecdotes(which he barely did) & strongly criticised his writing style as hard to read. Then you add that you're giving up your precious time to post like we should be grateful.

You could have just said "I'm busy, I'll reply later" but you can't do that because you're too obnoxious.

Look @Foreigner, another person read my post and how about that, no traumatic history in there at all.

It's almost like you can't bear to read a very very long very detailed in why you are indeed transphobic and explaining that simply for you, very thorough on the fact that you've done nothing but contradict yourself passage of writing.

Again, the reason it is so long is because it was actually bemusing how inconsistent your previous posts were and how many times you showed your blatant transphobia. I addressed all of those points.

And then, like this guy says you comment saying you won't read the shorter ones I did (literally because you asked me to do so) then try to make yourself seem learned and educated by saying my writing style is hard to read.

I finished law school man, and I got good grades. The reason you're finding my writing style hard to read, I can only logically conclude (minus the long one because that one wasn't proof read) is because you're finding it difficult. And that is fine. Not all of us can sit and read through legal case after legal case and be able understand what these things mean. Still, as far as law graduates go I'm pretty dumb. Plenty of my fellow students were high achievers.

Do you know what can be helped? That thing people do when they pretend they have reasons for doing something which make them better than another person, but those reasons are just yet another excuse because the person doesn't *want* to read about why they were wrong, how they can't formulate a coherent argument, and how they revealed their bigotry.

No, far easier to just say you find it exhausting. Reading is beyond you then? That explains why you managed to misinterpret so much of my comment in such amusing ways. Do you know what is exhausting? Convoluted legal jargon and having to read 100000s of pages of it. I did it.

Do you know what's even more annoying to people who go around telling people how smart they are? People who won't admit when they're wrong, and always need to be right.

Looks like you scored both of these appealing traits. They're very endearing.

 

[Foreigner]

I was actually talking about you in most of it lmao damn son. Because you were being transphobic. There was zero trauma in there about me. For someone who constantly talks about how smart he is when someone points out in explicit detail the many inconsistencies in your arguement, then does it again shorter but you find yet another excuse not to read it that hardly helps your claim.

Smart people don't usually need to go around telling people how smart they are. Because they know that annoys people. And if they're not that smart and they do that, it ends up pretty funny for everyone else. The type of people who announce how smart they are to everyone are people who *think* they are smarter than everyone else.

If you don't want to learn how to be less transphobic then fine, don't read me criticising your opinions.

'I find it exhausting and that can't be helped' means 'look, I'm very smart.'

Why are you so offended by me stating my limits?

I have never bragged anywhere on this forum about "how smart I am." Other people may call me smart but I just write things the way I see it.

If you want to keep attacking my character rather than wait patiently for me to respond to your post, then this conversation is going to end quickly. I've got no time for that. Character assassination is a classic strategy of the radical left because they are afraid to have an honest discussion about their social politics. Prove me wrong by avoiding this behaviour.

I think you write A LOT of extraneous and unnecessary detail about your life. It's not necessary at all. It's oversharing and TMI. It's unfortunate that when somebody tells you they are overwhelmed, you turn around and call them unintelligent. I'm not on drugs, I can't spend hours reading and writing posts.

So if you want to be civil, I will be happy to keep talking... but if you want to start shit talking about me in the third person as if I'm not still reading this thread, then you can go to hell. It's also very telling that a thread about gay men has been taken over by a trans warrior. Typical.

 

[Foreigner]

Did he really just give up because there was too much text? he's always mentioning how clever he is yet can't digest a four minute read? or perhaps he's so busy fighting those post-modern neo-marxists he just can't spare the time.

And who the fuck are you, greenlighter? You have 20 posts and you're talking about how I "always mention how clever I am." Are you sockpuppet account or just signing up to defend your friend??

 

[Foreigner]

I'm going to assume this is your shortened version. The other one was tl;dr for reasons I already said.

@Foreigner

Like, @mal3volent and I are actually soulmates. We are meant to be together, spending our days playing animal crossing on the front porch while the sun sets over our cottage in the conservative American midwest. A dramatic intercontinental romance, trans and cis prevented only by the fact that I will never have $90,000 in my bank account to pay for my phalloplasty. So alas, he remains out of my reach and I spend my days in homoerotic longing for the man who showed me the world of animal crossing and we share our love.

This here... like, literally, I DO NOT need to know this level of info about you. It has nothing to do with our convo.

Like for real, I'm actually fine with cis people who have a genital preference. It bothers me not. It's been a decade now I can't be fucked over stuff I can't change. If someone wants to see if they like my junk then sure, I'll facilitate that happening but I don't go around telling Mal that he needs to want to sleep with me or he's transphobic. Literally the first conversation I ever had with him on the discord was him asking me whether it was transphobic to not want to have sex with a trans man if he didn't have a penis and I immediately said no, because it's not. It becomes transphobic at the point where they then have a penis, and you shift the goalposts and say 'wait no you need to be a natal male' because it's not cock you want, it's that you don't want to fuck a trans person.

I understand that this is how you operate, but I am saying that catfishing happens. I really don't care if you don't believe me. The cis world knows all about it.

The part in bold... there is really no difference between those two things. A person who wants a real penis is basically wanting a natal male. A trans male will never have a real dick. So whether they couch it in "wanting a real penis" vs "not wanting to fuck a trans male", it's exactly the same thing by default.

I want real dick, which means I won't ever have sex with a trans male. You say that makes me transphobic. I don't agree.

And whatever man, you do you. But it is transphobic. Because it's our status as a trans person that is off-putting to you. And I think I could state with relative certainty that if in the future surgeons are able to construct such a realistic looking penis for trans men that we pass as cisgender men in every way shape and form, that you would STILL refuse to sleep with one.

The part in bold, not true whatsoever. That's your own internalized transphobia talking. I have trans male friends and I will fight for their right to have a dignified existence, but they know there is zero chance I will ever sleep with them. Like literally none. I require my men to have cocks at the end of the day. Despite being men, in addition to having vaginas they also kind of still look like women, and they smell like women (smell is a big deal to me). I've been with very effeminate cis men and they still register as "man" to me. Trans men... I still see woman in them, and my gay male brain does not fully register them as men. It's not something I am ideologically doing, it is a carnal/primal thing that my desire body notices. This is no secret, I have had conversations with them about this, because unlike you they are not reactionary bags of trauma about it. They know at the end of the day that I still love them. It's no different than the straight male friends I've had over the years who I know will never sleep with me, but we can talk about how dick grosses them out and the idea of a guy's hairy ass repulses them, and then we laugh about it. That's life, man.

And no, I would not accept a prosthetic penis either.

I will not let my sexual orientation be twisted into "transphobia." I've taken enough shit in my life from all kinds of people for being gay. I won't let radical leftists tell me that I am a transphobe for wanting real cock. Fuck off.

And the actual reason for that, which you haven't outright said but it is clear as fucking day to anyone who can put it together, is that you don't consider us real men. You still consider us women. And that is transphobic.

That's not true. I very specifically said that you are male in spirit. My trans male friends, I feel that we are all guys. I see them as men. But they have vaginas and therefore I will never have sex with them.

You can twist it all you like, but what I see is a lot of entitlement to be perceived the way you want to be perceived and you don't have control over that. Sorry.

I don't consider you real men in the sense that you are not equivalent to natal men, but that doesn't mean you're not men. You're just some version of a man that is different than a natal man. You are more like a third gender, which many other cultures have adopted. We cannot erase the reality that natal men and trans men are different, to do so is delusional. That's why I am personally offended by this notion that if I won't sleep with a man who has a vagina that I'm transphobic, instead of respecting the fact that I just don't like pussy.

The only people who use the phrase 'real man' when talking to me are literally always transphobes, every single time. Not once has it been an ally, it's always a transphobic comment.

If there's no room for nuance in your mind, then there's nothing I can do about that. I think the conversation is more complicated than whether or not something is pro or anti trans. That's leftist bullshit that likes to divide people into camps. I don't understand why if my male trans friends are OK with the fact that I don't like vag, that you can't be too. There are men out there who will fuck them regardless of their orientation. So why come for me?

So honestly man I don't really know why you bother saying nice stuff about trans people at all, I actually really prefer outright people who know they're transphobic and proclaim it loudly, that way I know to give them the widest berth I possibly can. You on the other hand, it's far more insidious, because you act as though you don't hold animosity towards us, say things like you would fight for us in a trans holocaust, say nice things to us. Honestly just drop the facade and join the rest of them, you're not an ally and you never will be, not with the views you hold.

I think you are projecting your trauma on me which is why you can't see nuance in this conversation. And this is the reason why the trans revolution is doomed to failure and it's only going to hurt trans people. You guys are pushing the politic way too hard and erasing opinions as if the conversation is totally over. In your mind, you're either pro-trans (ally) or anti-trans. It's pedantic.

It isn't that you don't want to be friends with trans people my dude, trans people don't want to be friends with you. I wouldn't want to be, not after that spectacular cringe fest of hot takes and some bizarre accusation of me being homophobic. Literally point at anything I said which is homophobic. Was it me saying genitals don't have much to do with sexuality? Well they don't, if you're bisexual like me. Nor do they if you're a gay guy who will fuck a trans man or a straight guy who would fuck a trans woman.

I have trans friends. And guess what? Trans people are individuals with full lives. They aren't just "trans" or "cis." I have trans friends. Sorry to break it to you. To say that trans people don't want to be friends is to assume that all trans people are carbon copies of one another. Again, fuck right off.

Understand that you are not part of the majority where this is concerned. Your group is small, and there's far more people in the world who don't much care about genitals since most people are some form of bisexual. It's not all about you, like you want trans people to do all these ridiculous things for you, you, you. So YOU aren't uncomfortable. So YOU aren't turned off. So YOU don't find a tranny attractive. So YOU never have to out yourself as a bigot. So YOU never get put in a difficult situation.

Yeah yeah... blah blah blah I'm small and insignificant. You can't just dismiss me. My points have power and are being discussed by people everywhere.

I don't expect trans people to serve me like you're saying. All I expect is transparency about being trans. No catfishing. No trying to lure me in to magic pussy like straight women do when they want to convert me. You are not equivalent to natal men and never will be. The fact that this is shocking to you shows how deep the delusion goes. Do you actually think that most straight women or most gay men want to be with a man who has a vagina? The ones that do are a minority. I am definitely not in the minority position on that one. The only difference is I am honest enough with you to talk openly with nuance. Most people are so afraid to say what they really think because radical leftism will doxx them, deplatform them, call them bigots (or whatever), and ruin their private lives. They are toxic AF. But I am not afraid to talk openly about this. Gay people came into societal acceptance much like POC, by decades of societal discourse. The trans movement on the other hand has hamfisted this and it's why you are getting so much backlash.

If you are going to dismiss this whole conversation then don't be surprised when the politics turn dark.

I am actually your ally which is why I am telling you what I really think, so we can hash it out. BL isn't a safe space per se. If it were, I would not be saying these things and would instead just hold space for trans stories. But we are having a dialogue here that crosses life experiences.

And what do we get? A high chance of verbal discrimination, possible risk of physical violence, chance of murder.

I'm aware of that... but you can't just trot this out every time an uncomfortable conversation comes up. This issue can have many things happening at once. It's not a zero sum game. We can support the right and dignity of trans people to live in the world without fear of being destroyed. At the same time, we can have nuanced conversations about how the politics are failing or not translating properly to different groups.

Like... I would love to talk about how gay cis male safe spaces are being encroached upon by trans men who then invite women in and ruin the safe space. And you're a TERF if you call this out, or you just get told that gay men are safe in the world now so their safe spaces don't have to be so sanctified. But we can't have that convo half the time because of censorship and accusations of transphobia/bigotry. So here we are, having it on BL in obscurity.

Yeah, that totally sounds like something an ally would want for a community they 'support' like come off it stop even pretending, it's embarrassing and I don't even want any of your nice comments you threw in after you misgendered me, I don't want your false kindness you use to shield your bigotry. Just call me a freak tranny and get it over with, then at least that way I can respect you.

How did I misgender you?

Just because I don't think you are equivalent to a cis male doesn't mean you aren't a man? I am equal to a woman but we have different anatomy and lived experiences. Same with white people and POC, etc.

What I don't get is why you think there is no difference between you and a cis man. Ideologically you're a man but physically you are not. Why is it transphobic to say so? You can be different but still included.

People really need to work on resolving their trauma. When you view the world through the lens of trauma, then everything is a war which means every conversation is a fight. I remember having some very hard conversations with downright bigoted people about gay marriage when they were calling me a sinner to my face. Do you think I care? Those people would lynch me in a second if the law didn't protect me. I could sit there super calm and just rationally discuss it with them. Part of the problem was that they just had no exposure to gay men so had all kinds of weird ideas about it. So when they were confronted by a reasonable man who happens to be gay they got to vent their grievances and there was progress.

But with with the latest brand of radical leftism, they just shut you up. And I think that's going to backfire badly, and soon, if they don't stop.

 

[Eligiu]

I'm going to assume this is your shortened version. The other one was tl;dr for reasons I already said.



This here... like, literally, I DO NOT need to know this level of info about you. It has nothing to do with our convo.



I understand that this is how you operate, but I am saying that catfishing happens. I really don't care if you don't believe me. The cis world knows all about it.

The part in bold... there is really no difference between those two things. A person who wants a real penis is basically wanting a natal male. A trans male will never have a real dick. So whether they couch it in "wanting a real penis" vs "not wanting to fuck a trans male", it's exactly the same thing by default.

I want real dick, which means I won't ever have sex with a trans male. You say that makes me transphobic. I don't agree.



The part in bold, not true whatsoever. That's your own internalized transphobia talking. I have trans male friends and I will fight for their right to have a dignified existence, but they know there is zero chance I will ever sleep with them. Like literally none. I require my men to have cocks at the end of the day. Despite being men, in addition to having vaginas they also kind of still look like women, and they smell like women (smell is a big deal to me). I've been with very effeminate cis men and they still register as "man" to me. Trans men... I still see woman in them, and my gay male brain does not fully register them as men. It's not something I am ideologically doing, it is a carnal/primal thing that my desire body notices. This is no secret, I have had conversations with them about this, because unlike you they are not reactionary bags of trauma about it. They know at the end of the day that I still love them. It's no different than the straight male friends I've had over the years who I know will never sleep with me, but we can talk about how dick grosses them out and the idea of a guy's hairy ass repulses them, and then we laugh about it. That's life, man.

And no, I would not accept a prosthetic penis either.

I will not let my sexual orientation be twisted into "transphobia." I've taken enough shit in my life from all kinds of people for being gay. I won't let radical leftists tell me that I am a transphobe for wanting real cock. Fuck off.



That's not true. I very specifically said that you are male in spirit. My trans male friends, I feel that we are all guys. I see them as men. But they have vaginas and therefore I will never have sex with them.

You can twist it all you like, but what I see is a lot of entitlement to be perceived the way you want to be perceived and you don't have control over that. Sorry.

I don't consider you real men in the sense that you are not equivalent to natal men, but that doesn't mean you're not men. You're just some version of a man that is different than a natal man. You are more like a third gender, which many other cultures have adopted. We cannot erase the reality that natal men and trans men are different, to do so is delusional. That's why I am personally offended by this notion that if I won't sleep with a man who has a vagina that I'm transphobic, instead of respecting the fact that I just don't like pussy.



If there's no room for nuance in your mind, then there's nothing I can do about that. I think the conversation is more complicated than whether or not something is pro or anti trans. That's leftist bullshit that likes to divide people into camps. I don't understand why if my male trans friends are OK with the fact that I don't like vag, that you can't be too. There are men out there who will fuck them regardless of their orientation. So why come for me?



I think you are projecting your trauma on me which is why you can't see nuance in this conversation. And this is the reason why the trans revolution is doomed to failure and it's only going to hurt trans people. You guys are pushing the politic way too hard and erasing opinions as if the conversation is totally over. In your mind, you're either pro-trans (ally) or anti-trans. It's pedantic.



I have trans friends. And guess what? Trans people are individuals with full lives. They aren't just "trans" or "cis." I have trans friends. Sorry to break it to you. To say that trans people don't want to be friends is to assume that all trans people are carbon copies of one another. Again, fuck right off.



Yeah yeah... blah blah blah I'm small and insignificant. You can't just dismiss me. My points have power and are being discussed by people everywhere.

I don't expect trans people to serve me like you're saying. All I expect is transparency about being trans. No catfishing. No trying to lure me in to magic pussy like straight women do when they want to convert me. You are not equivalent to natal men and never will be. The fact that this is shocking to you shows how deep the delusion goes. Do you actually think that most straight women or most gay men want to be with a man who has a vagina? The ones that do are a minority. I am definitely not in the minority position on that one. The only difference is I am honest enough with you to talk openly with nuance. Most people are so afraid to say what they really think because radical leftism will doxx them, deplatform them, call them bigots (or whatever), and ruin their private lives. They are toxic AF. But I am not afraid to talk openly about this. Gay people came into societal acceptance much like POC, by decades of societal discourse. The trans movement on the other hand has hamfisted this and it's why you are getting so much backlash.

If you are going to dismiss this whole conversation then don't be surprised when the politics turn dark.

I am actually your ally which is why I am telling you what I really think, so we can hash it out. BL isn't a safe space per se. If it were, I would not be saying these things and would instead just hold space for trans stories. But we are having a dialogue here that crosses life experiences.



I'm aware of that... but you can't just trot this out every time an uncomfortable conversation comes up. This issue can have many things happening at once. It's not a zero sum game. We can support the right and dignity of trans people to live in the world without fear of being destroyed. At the same time, we can have nuanced conversations about how the politics are failing or not translating properly to different groups.

Like... I would love to talk about how gay cis male safe spaces are being encroached upon by trans men who then invite women in and ruin the safe space. And you're a TERF if you call this out, or you just get told that gay men are safe in the world now so their safe spaces don't have to be so sanctified. But we can't have that convo half the time because of censorship and accusations of transphobia/bigotry. So here we are, having it on BL in obscurity.



How did I misgender you?

Just because I don't think you are equivalent to a cis male doesn't mean you aren't a man? I am equal to a woman but we have different anatomy and lived experiences. Same with white people and POC, etc.

What I don't get is why you think there is no difference between you and a cis man. Ideologically you're a man but physically you are not. Why is it transphobic to say so? You can be different but still included.

People really need to work on resolving their trauma. When you view the world through the lens of trauma, then everything is a war which means every conversation is a fight. I remember having some very hard conversations with downright bigoted people about gay marriage when they were calling me a sinner to my face. Do you think I care? Those people would lynch me in a second if the law didn't protect me. I could sit there super calm and just rationally discuss it with them. Part of the problem was that they just had no exposure to gay men so had all kinds of weird ideas about it. So when they were confronted by a reasonable man who happens to be gay they got to vent their grievances and there was progress.

But with with the latest brand of radical leftism, they just shut you up. And I think that's going to backfire badly, and soon, if they don't stop.

I have a couple things to say, you need to read the longer post.

You said, you will only sleep with a biological, XY male. That means you exclude trans men. That makes you transphobic. So what you have trans male friends, no one is talking about that. You would never consider a trans male as a sexual or romantic partner. You exclude us based on our trans status, end of story.

Oh my god if you're going to accuse me of thinking things go back to my big post, put that ginormous huge intelligent brain of yours to work and *actually read* it is not that hard. Maybe someone can read it out loud to you. I do not think me and cis man are the same and I literally have never said that. God. Damn. It's like I'm talking to someone whose form of argument is to just make up statements the other person didn't say to try and make them look unreasonable. It's definitely *a* strategy but I'm dubious it's a good one. That is around the fifth time you've done that. I had to correct a few in the bigger post too.

Also lmao I just wrote out a literal fucking joke about me and Mal that isn't even remotely true and you are cracking the shits. Get a grip on yourself man holy shit. You came in here announcing your genital preference to the world and I can't joke about me and Mal playing animal crossing on a front porch. You are just, incredible. The best. The most logical.

Tbh if you don't go and just read the longer post that already covered everything you just typed out in detail even you could understand then we can keep going, because a debate where you go 'WHY DO YOU THINK THIS' and I go 'i never said I think that, please provide a quote' and you never do is lame. Super lame.

Man I came here because I thought this would be a challenge but it's barely even an exercise in disagreement. You literally make stuff up to get mad about, why? Be mad about actual things.

Maybe the trans revolution is doomed to fail. I wouldn't know, I haven't been paying attention to that. It isn't really my thing, I've told you I'm not progressive here I'm far too cynical for that, I'm a realist. But it does suit your attempt at an argument by portraying me as some kind of radical. Swing and a miss buddy. I mean, based on your repeated firm statements of being an ally you'll probably be at the revolution before me! Let me know how it goes. I look forward to hearing about it. (But really I'm being 100% honest here the most I've been to is a Pride March lmao).

 

[~Winterborn~]

And who the fuck are you, greenlighter? You have 20 posts and you're talking about how I "always mention how clever I am." Are you sockpuppet account or just signing up to defend your friend??

Are you going to do this in every interaction we have? like, unless you can get an admin to say I have a unique IP there is nothing I can say that's going to convince you I'm not a sockpuppet. Who the fuck would I be a sockpuppet for? looking at my posts I don't see any benefit that would be gained from posting what I said under a different name? I'm on the bluelight discord mainly I check threads here when someone links them. I guess you could come on and voice chat with me?

Sadly you've been on every thread I've read here recently and you are always talking about your intellectual prowess.

It is hilarious that you think postcount is relevant though, very on brand.

 

[Eligiu]

And who the fuck are you, greenlighter? You have 20 posts and you're talking about how I "always mention how clever I am." Are you sockpuppet account or just signing up to defend your friend??

Yes, everyone who dislikes you is a sock-puppet. It can't be possible that two different people both think your views are wrong and that you have a propensity to well, overstate your ability to argue.

He keeps mentioning how clever you are because that's what you do. That's why I mention it as well. Because when someone constantly does it and then they don't reach the mark, you remind them about it.

I've told you before. People do not like it when other people go around talking about how smart they are, especially when expectation does not match up with reality. It grates on people. So people make fun of it.

Smart people don't have to tell anyone that they're smart, because people just naturally notice they are smarter than them. They also know that going around declaring they're smarter than everyone else irritates people so they tend to refrain.

 

[Conky]

 

[Eligiu]

Are you going to do this in every interaction we have? like, unless you can get an admin to say I have a unique IP there is nothing I can say that's going to convince you I'm not a sockpuppet. Who the fuck would I be a sockpuppet for? looking at my posts I don't see any benefit that would be gained from posting what I said under a different name? I'm on the bluelight discord mainly I check threads here when someone links them. I guess you could come on and voice chat with me?

Sadly you've been on every thread I've read here recently and you are always talking about your intellectual prowess.

It is hilarious that you think postcount is relevant though, very on brand.

Don't you know, if you tell everyone that you're smart, it makes them believe it.

Of course that backfires immediately when you can't construct a coherent, consistent argument that doesn't have glaring contradictions of your entire previous posts.

You must be me, posting under a different account, because that is definitely something I would bother to do.

 

[Eligiu]

From the man himself, lord of contradictions nomorebenzos supplies benzos for the hungry.

I don't need benzos, this is low hanging fruit for me. I'm not even remotely upset because his views won't change, but his inability to grasp the point I'm actually making is worth the discussion. Transphobes who don't think they're transphobes are the most delightful kind, because they think they know enough about it to have an informed opinion but well, eventually they get annoyed at the trans person they're arguing with for any number of reasons and the rest they say is history.

You're the best of them though, still my favourite.