Tramadol Vs Codeine

[pinkanga]

So I know the opiate charts out there put codeine and tramadol as about the same when it comes to potency. I.e. 30mg codeine is equivalent to 30mg tramadol and 100mg of both is equivalent to 10mg morphine. Im not exactly sure how these comparison charts are compiled to be honest.... there has to be a considerable amount of subjectivity when comparing and contrasting opioid..... Thats fair enough though... and any opiate user with half a brain would be aware that its not as simple or straight forward as saying youll get the same euphoria from 500mg as codeine as you would from 50mg IV morphine.

Anyway, Im just curious what peoples opinions are on tramadol, and specifically tram vs an equiv. dose of codeine? I obtained 5 200mg limited release tramadol tablets last week. So as some of you might know (although I havent been around much lately) I have a considerable codeine tolerance, and need at least 600-800mg to make it worth while (for a decent sess... I can have considerably less and still 'enjoy' it and allow it to elevate my mood).

So anyway despite having to go to work in an hour I thought fuck it and had the 5 x 200mg tram pills. They were time release so I chewed them. I didnt get any opiate itch or warmth (although I usually sweat at work so who knows).... but I was in a WAAAY better mood the entirety of my 6hr shift (Im working part-time at a bottle shop in Uni break so Im basically walking around for 6hrs). Anyway, I guess I though 1000mg would have had a more overt opiate type of effect...


Maybe I didnt chew the tabs enough? I munched those fuckers up one-by-one to be sure and washed down with water. I ultimately put it down to set/setting etc.... I felt like if I was at home I could sit and feel real fuckin chill and maybe even nod off. A feeling I never get off codeine these days.. usually after a good codeine session Im energised and want to play video games or or whatever.

I have the option of getting more tramadol so Ill experiment some more. But definitely curious to read anyone elses opinion on tram compared with codeine. It definitely didnt come close to a good oxy sess which I was hoping for.

 

[cassandragemini]

1000mg of tramadol is a really high dose man, are you aware of tramadols side effects and adverse effects? This is copied from Wikipedia:

The most commonly reported adverse drug reactions are nausea, vomiting, sweating, itching and constipation. Drowsiness is reported, although it is less of an issue than for other opioids.[citation needed] Patients prescribed tramadol for general pain relief with or without other agents have reported withdrawal symptoms including uncontrollable nervous tremors, muscle contracture, and 'thrashing' in bed (similar to restless leg syndrome) if weaned off the medication too quickly. Anxiety, 'buzzing', 'electrical shock' and other sensations may also be present, similar to those noted in Effexor withdrawal. It can also produce delayed ejaculation[27] and other sexual dysfunctions, mainly due to its interaction with 5HT. Respiratory depression, a common side-effect of most opioids, is not clinically significant in normal doses. By itself, it can decrease the seizure threshold. When combined with SSRIs, tricyclic antidepressants, or in patients with epilepsy, the seizure threshold is further decreased. Seizures have been reported in humans receiving excessive single oral doses (700mg) or large intravenous doses (300mg). However, there have been several rare cases of people having grand-mal seizures at doses as low as 100–400mg orally.[28][29][30] An Australian study found that of 97 confirmed new-onset seizures, eight were associated with tramadol, and that in the authors' First Seizure Clinic, "tramadol is the most frequently suspected cause of provoked seizures".[31] There appears to be growing evidence that tramadol use may have serious risks in some individuals and it is contra-indicated in patients with uncontrolled epilepsy (BNF 59). Seizures caused by tramadol are most often tonic-clonic seizures, more commonly known in the past as grand mal seizures. Also when taken with SSRIs, there is an increased risk of serotonin toxicity, which can be fatal.

Fewer than 1% of users have a presumed incident seizure claim after their first tramadol prescription. Risk of seizure claim increases two- to six-fold among users adjusted for selected comorbidities and concomitant drugs. Risk of seizure is highest among those aged 25–54 years, those with more than four tramadol prescriptions, and those with a history of alcohol abuse, stroke, or head injury.[25] Dosages of warfarin may need to be reduced for anticoagulated patients to avoid bleeding complications. Constipation can be severe especially in the elderly requiring manual evacuation of the bowel.[citation needed] Furthermore, there are suggestions that chronic opioid administration may induce a state of immune tolerance,[32] although tramadol, in contrast to typical opioids may enhance immune function.[33][34][35] Some have also stressed the negative effects of opioids on cognitive functioning and personality.[36]

I prefer tramadol to codeine but compared to oxy, morph and heroin it's pretty lacklustre. I have had a couple of nice highs from it when I had no opiate tolerance and drank a 100mg bottle of oral syrup a couple of times in Colombia. It can also be handy as a withdraw aid but tramadol scares me a bit and I've heard the withdraw is fucking awful. Be careful man.

 

[Halif]

It might be better to think of tramadol as an anti-depressant rather than an opiate.

It provides analgesia as well as affecting serotonin function, and IME the mood lift is more noticeable than the painkilling properties. Likewise, the withdrawal process is more psychologically devastating than physically uncomfortable.

Thus, treating tramadol primarily as an opiate and chasing an opiate-like high from it is a risky game: You could end up with nasty rebound depression which is out of proportion to the meagre high it offers.

Codeine has (used to have) a more 'traditional' opiate effect for me: stoned relaxation.

I prefer codeine, personally. Tramadol was hellish to get off and also disagreed with my SSRIs.

Take care

 

[pinkanga]

^^^ That was my experience anyway. It didnt feel very 'opiatey' at all, but did lift my mood. Youd thing 1000mg Id get opiate itches, hot face etc. Despite my codeine tolerance and the 600mg ceiling dose myth, I know if I had 1g of codeine Id be itchy and feel like I just took a fucking opiate. Def didnt get that from tram.

Thanks for the input. And your harm minimisation points are well taken. I was a little reckless taking such a large amount of an unknown substance, but I figured if it was roughly equiv. to codeine then I at least knew what I was getting myself in for.

Bah... Nothing does and ever will beat oxy. Expect maybe a fent patch That was great. Cutting strips and placing on gums.... hello opiate my old friend!

 

[cassandragemini]

Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups they say man. It that went wrong, like if you were on other meds, it could have gone really wrong. You could have had a tonic-clonic seizure or serotonin syndrome.

 

[pinkanga]

Youre right. I had no idea tram fucked with serotonin as well. Absolutely ignorant to that fact.

Take nothing for granted. Trust me when I say Im usually SUPER vigilant in researching new chems and reading shit loads, plus trip reports and risks etc. For whatever reason I threw tramadol in the somewhat benign box in my head.

Anyway, never hurts to learn a lesson and remember that were fucking with our bodies here. Fortunately I was able to learn that lesson through reading informative posts here on bluelight and doing further research (which I will do). Thanks again.

Really irresponsible of me. Im surprised at myself TBH. Live and learn hey. Key word there being 'learn'.

 

[Captain Brewster]

It might be better to think of tramadol as an anti-depressant rather than an opiate.

It provides analgesia as well as affecting serotonin function, and IME the mood lift is more noticeable than the painkilling properties. Likewise, the withdrawal process is more psychologically devastating than physically uncomfortable.

Thus, treating tramadol primarily as an opiate and chasing an opiate-like high from it is a risky game: You could end up with nasty rebound depression which is out of proportion to the meagre high it offers.

Codeine has (used to have) a more 'traditional' opiate effect for me: stoned relaxation.

I prefer codeine, personally. Tramadol was hellish to get off and also disagreed with my SSRIs.

Take care

Yeah have to agree with that from what I've heard/read.

Alot of the stuff i hear about it makes me think its not worth bothering with if your after an opiate high. Maybe use small doses for potentiating.

It probably catches alot of people out with the whole ssri/ssni thing.

 

[Esotericism]

Yeah have to agree with that from what I've heard/read.

Alot of the stuff i hear about it makes me think its not worth bothering with if your after an opiate high. Maybe use small doses for potentiating.

It probably catches alot of people out with the whole ssri/ssni thing.

It gives good opiod effects if the user is opiod naive, if You have a tolerance do Not. Bother

 

[Halif]

Bah... Nothing does and ever will beat oxy. Expect maybe a fent patch

Yeah, both of those are in a different league to tramadol.

It's dangerous to compare opiates/opioids sometimes because they can have such radically different actions. Kind of like looking at bottles of light beer and 101proof rum and saying "well, they're both booze and I want to get drunk, so let's hit 'em and see what happens".

I'm not singling you out, Pinkanga, or making a judgement about what YOU did, I'm just making this comment for the purposes of harm reduction. Truth is that I have done many reckless and downright stupid things when I was running away from some unpleasant mindstate, and I'm lucky to be alive and here to report on these things. It's good that you posted this one, because the lack of awareness regarding tramadol's SNRI function is a danger point for people who aren't familiar with it.

As others have said in this thread: Tramadol is not especially strong as a painkilling opiate if you have a tolerance. It has anti-depressant action and for some people can provide quite a nice mood lift. It is very hard to get off once you develop a habit because you are essentially withdrawing from both an opiate and an anti-depressant. WDs from tramadol are extremely unpleasant and can result in erratic behaviour. Don't go there without caution.

EDIT:

Really irresponsible of me. Im surprised at myself TBH. Live and learn hey. Key word there being 'learn'.

Don't be too hard on yourself, though. You've hit the nail on the head with the key word being LEARN. That's what this site is all about, and sharing this experience could save people a lot of suffering.

 

[drug_mentor]

First of all I have to point out that you shouldn't really use more than 400mg of tramadol in a day because it increases the risk of you having a seizure. Especially given you had no experience with it taking 2.5 times the maximum dose that is considered safe is pretty risky.

In regards to the comparison charts, they obviously aren't comparing them for their recreational effects but for their equivalent analgesic effect. You can use them as a guideline but its definately not something you can rely on 100 percent for a recreational dose comparison.

For me personally, tramadol isn't particularly enjoyable on its own and doesn't feel very opioid like. I tend to experience nausea on tramadol even from moderate doses, even in periods where I have enough tolerance to use relatively large doses of oxycodone without much need to worry about nausea. I broke my hand like 6 months ago and still have tramadol left over from then, thats how much I enjoy it.

When I was relatively early in my CWE career I did used to get awesome nods from taking a couple hundred mg of tramadol an hour or two before I would take my standard dose of codeine, that combination with maybe a couple of diazepam and bong hits thrown in has given me some of the best nods of my life, I had fuck all tolerance at the time though. If you have any left you might try taking a moderate dose a while before a CWE and see if that gives you better effects.

 

[Sustanon]

Codeine does fuk all for me thesedays even with DXM. Started to add some dihydrocodiene, boy did it work and worked very well. That warm fuzzy feeling is back Quite strong euphoria too, felt like having a line (20mg of pure smack). The only prob is u cant redose or keep the high going sadly but im still happy with that 20 mins of feeling super good and 4 hours of being relaxed

 

[Mysterie]

ive had some good times on tramadol at 200mg

codeine srsly does nothing for me now, unless i dose like 800mg at which point i just get itchy as fuck and will vomit (no opiate high)

also prbly important to note that i think tramadol lowers your seizure threshold as well

 

[Halif]

Codeine does fuk all for me thesedays even with DXM. Started to add some dihydrocodiene, boy did it work and worked very well. That warm fuzzy feeling is back Quite strong euphoria too, felt like having a line (20mg of pure smack). The only prob is u cant redose or keep the high going sadly but im still happy with that 20 mins of feeling super good and 4 hours of being relaxed

Hehe.... this sounds too familiar, except in my case it's DXM + loperamide + codeine - all for 20 minutes of feeling pretty good and four hours of feeling semi-normal.

Once the bar has been raised too high all you can do is load up on stupid combos for maintenance. Gobbling diarrhea medications, guzzling cough syrups, running around buying OTC painkillers for extraction.... what a glamorous lifestyle%) I'm so glad I chose to become an addict.

 

[spacejunk]

^ halif, have you given buprenorphine much consideration?
i read a lot of reports on here saying that it only escalates your habit and traps you into the system (not to mention the long half-life thus extended withdrawals etc etc...but that must be taking an enormous amount of time, money and energy concocting ailments in order to procure those medicines).
it's a fucked situation to be in.

 

[Halif]

Spacejunk: I have thought about going down that road many times, but as you mentioned I don't want to get into THE SYSTEM where I can expect to 'enjoy' being told when and how I should do this/that, and being officially labelled as an addict.

I don't mind acknowledging to myself (or anyone who really wants to know) that I'm addicted, but I sure as shit don't want that to come up on any government computers because I just don't see anything good coming from that.

So long as I am able to maintain myself without resorting to doing anything that harms or inconveniences anyone, I think I'll just keep doing what I'm doing. You're right in saying that it takes a lot of time and effort to create these wacky concoctions, though. What can I say? It's a labour of love (or something...)

 

[Captain Brewster]

Hehe.... this sounds too familiar, except in my case it's DXM + loperamide + codeine - all for 20 minutes of feeling pretty good and four hours of feeling semi-normal.

Once the bar has been raised too high all you can do is load up on stupid combos for maintenance. Gobbling diarrhea medications, guzzling cough syrups, running around buying OTC painkillers for extraction.... what a glamorous lifestyle%) I'm so glad I chose to become an addict.

Has lope worked as a potentiator for you Halif? Im interested.

 

[spacejunk]

You're right in saying that it takes a lot of time and effort to create these wacky concoctions, though. What can I say? It's a labour of love (or something...)

A religious devotion, perhaps?
Amen to that, brother.

 

[Captain Brewster]

Addiction to alchemy.....

Might work for an excuse later down the road.

 

[Halif]

Has lope worked as a potentiator for you Halif? Im interested.

It sure has worked. But be warned all ye who consider using loperamide for anything other than its intended function: It is hard to stop using once you've been at it for a while, and your guts will not thank you for over-using it. Not even lope can plug me up too bad these days, but it does slow down your digestive function and can make you feel quite uncomfortable, with a gross feeling pressure in the mid-section.

And that's speaking as someone with a fair tolerance. For someone with low or no tolerance, introducing lope on top of other opiates could weak havoc on a person's ability to take a shite and being severely constipated is uncomfortable at best and dangerous at worst. There are some gross and disturbing (and sometimes weirdly hilarious) stories out there on the net of people who needed medical intervention due to not taking a dump for days or weeks...

As I said before, it's a mighty glamorous world being addicted to opiates%)

 

[Sonny Jim]

Tramadol

I have seen half a 50mg cap get a girl I know quite stoned, for period-pain the doc gave her 200mg slow release tabs saying take one as needed and man was she sick!

had to take her to hospital and she was wasted in a nauseous dizzy way for a few days...could have been longer from memory. She couldn't really walk for the first day. Interestingly the hospital was no hope and the staff kind of laughed at us.

I used to love it.