Tofisopam

[Bleaney]

I'm really quite excited about Tofisopam, I think it deserves a new thread. I've been reading everything I can find about it online, and it is all good news. It really does seem to be a smarter and improved benzo. Benzo 2.0 in a way. A benzo with all the anxiolysys and apparently a much improved dependency profile, and none of the drawbacks, such as cognitive and memory impairments and sedation. It could be exactly what I need for my purposes. And I won't be the only person it could benefit.

If it does work for me and prove helpful I will work out some way of gradually swicthing over from traditional benzos to this new one (Edit: new to me at least). There will inevitably be a period of severe insomnia as there always is following prolonged benzo use. But in the longer term this could be hugely beneficial, as it was / is always the insomnia that causes me the most problems with trying to take days off benzo dosing. Not being able to sleep without benzos gradually became a very real and severe practical problem, that eventually made it very difficult to virtually impossible to take planned days off benzos. I could do it at first but it became more and more un-doable as my doses and length of habit increased.

THere's a lot of "ifs" but if Tofisopam does work for me, and if supplies prove sustainable, and if I get through the insomnia while adjusting from 'old school' to 'new school' benzos, then in future after all that, there would be no rebound insomnia on my days off Tofisopam, making an on /off habit a much realistically and practically sustainable prospect. Meaning it would be far easier to take breaks. Meaning tolerance could be kept lower.

Given all these benefits, the only thing that puzzles me is why there isn't a lot more attention and excitement surrounding this product. I guess it's down to benzos being out of favour, even if they are much improved versions.

 

[fastandbulbous]

Well it sounds like it was named by someone from Rowntree-Macintosh, so bonus points for the name!

Sort of 'Willy Wonka and the Benzo factory'. Oompah- Loompas that instead of singing sarcastic ditties, just tell you to "fuck off and do it yourself"

 

[AlsoTapered]

dextofisopam - as opposed to 'diet tofisopam'.

 

[fastandbulbous]

I'm really quite excited about Tofisopam, I think it deserves a new thread. I've been reading everything I can find about it online, and it is all good news. It really does seem to be a smarter and improved benzo. Benzo 2.0 in a way. A benzo with all the anxiolysys and apparently a much improved dependency profile, and none of the drawbacks, such as cognitive and memory impairments and sedation. It could be exactly what I need for my purposes. And I won't be the only person it could benefit.

If it does work for me and prove helpful I will work out some way of gradually swicthing over from traditional benzos to this new one. There will inevitably be a period of severe insomnia as there always is following prolonged benzo use. But in the longer term this could be hugely beneficial, as it was / is always the insomnia that causes me the most problems with trying to take days off benzo dosing. Not being able to sleep without benzos gradually became a very real and severe practical problem, that eventually made it very difficult to virtually impossible to take planned days off benzos. I could do it at first but it became more and more un-doable as my doses and length of habit increased.

THere's a lot of "ifs" but if Tofisopam does work for me, and if supplies prove sustainable, and if I get through the insomnia while adjusting from 'old school' to 'new school' benzos, then in future after all that, there would be no rebound insomnia on my days off Tofisopam, making an on /off habit a much realistically and practically sustainable prospect. Meaning it would be far easier to take breaks. Meaning tolerance could be kept lower.

Given all these benefits, the only thing that puzzles me is why there isn't a lot more attention and excitement surrounding this product. I guess it's down to benzos being out of favour, even if they are much improved versions.

Actually hadn't heard of it, until I read the OP. From what I've found out about it, 2,3- diazepines are very selective on which receptors it hits. Considering a lot of the 1,4 & 1,5 benzos cause a lot of the characteristics that make them abusable, the 2,3- diazepines seem like the magic medicine for treating anxiety (I know they thought about the original benzos, but they were a vast improvement on barbiturates. Pharmacology is aboutsmall steps towards improving drug treatment)

 

[SpiralusSancti]

A benzo with all the anxiolysys and apparently a much improved dependency profile, and none of the drawbacks, such as cognitive and memory impairments and sedation.

If there weren’t cognitve and memory impairment I would likely continue to use benzos, but whit that side-effect and WDs they ain't worth it ime. But I’m really interested in things like tofisopam and I’m looking forward to hear your experience with it.

 

[JackARoe]

Naturally when the Indian companies started pushing tofisopam as an etizolam replacement I got curious too. I waited and then read some reviews. This is the little takeaway I got having never tried it. It has no benzo properties except anxiety is lowered a bit. No sedation or amnesia. On it's own it is not really a benzo replacement yet it will give you benzo like withdrawals after a person stops taking it. (?) It works well mixed in with a regular benzo. From the reading I did it potentiates phenibut and other benzos so a person seems to be able to take a lower dose of a regular benzo along with tofisopam.

That is all I got. Really looking forward to Bleaney giving us his thoughts. I wonder if it can help. Maybe even mixing it with some herbals if it is not strong enough on it's own. Just thinking out loud.

With etizolam I think the only reason I liked it for sleep was it wore off when I woke up. I dislike long lasting benzos. So if I could find a nice short acting benzo to take once in a while that would work. Sometimes even alprazolam makes me wake up groggy but I can use it. Will try nitrazolam at some point. All for sleep as even if I take 1 mg of etizolam during the day I can get flat and depressed and have no memory. But before bed it works wonders.

@SpiralusSancti I just read all your thoughts on your etizolam addiction you had. Fascinating and very clear. Thanks for posting.

 

[Bleaney]

Naturally when the Indian companies started pushing tofisopam as an etizolam replacement I got curious too. I waited and then read some reviews. This is the little takeaway I got having never tried it. It has no benzo properties except anxiety is lowered a bit. No sedation or amnesia. On it's own it is not really a benzo replacement yet it will give you benzo like withdrawals after a person stops taking it. (?) It works well mixed in with a regular benzo. From the reading I did it potentiates phenibut and other benzos so a person seems to be able to take a lower dose of a regular benzo along with tofisopam.

That is all I got. Really looking forward to Bleaney giving us his thoughts. I wonder if it can help. Maybe even mixing it with some herbals if it is not strong enough on it's own. Just thinking out loud.

With etizolam I think the only reason I liked it for sleep was it wore off when I woke up. I dislike long lasting benzos. So if I could find a nice short acting benzo to take once in a while that would work. Sometimes even alprazolam makes me wake up groggy but I can use it. Will try nitrazolam at some point. All for sleep as even if I take 1 mg of etizolam during the day I can get flat and depressed and have no memory. But before bed it works wonders.

@SpiralusSancti I just read all your thoughts on your etizolam addiction you had. Fascinating and very clear. Thanks for posting.

Your view of it seems to be the opposite of mine, with all the things I'm seeing as positives you're seeing as negatives.

Anyway, obviously I won't be able to make any proper judgement until I actually try it. Reading about things on line is all well and good but everyone's individual responses vary so much that no one is really in the best position to comment until they actually try any particular substance. It may well work for me, as the main thing I am looking for is anxiety relief, without (or at least less of) all of the other "baggage" that comes with benzos. Only one of the clearnet vendors that I know of has it at the moment anyway, and I've seen what putting 'all your eggs in one basket' does when it was the same situation with Etizolam. And when one vendor's stock runs out then all the best laid plans in the world end up coming to nothing. Although taking advantage of etizolam while it was available has at least helped me avoid a nasty dependency so far, apart from the insomnia aspect. This is where Tofisopam could come into it's own, once I get through what will almost certainly be another painful period of adjustment in terms of overcoming the insomnia.

Anyway, one step at a time, and I will post updates on this thread as to my experiences with the substance for anyone that may be interested or curious. Maybe I haven't explained very well why the substance appeals to me so much so I'll clear that up too.

 

[AlsoTapered]

Tofisopam was developed in 1967, patented in 1969 and was trialled by a US group in 1979.

Library Genesis

libgen.rocks

Evidently like some related compounds such as etifoxine, it doesn't have an immediate effect but slowly works over a number of weeks. That's important to know so people can begin using it and increase the use of one as they decrease the use of the other.

So HARDLY a new drug.

 

[Bleaney]

Yes I know, so what I should have said is that it is new to me, and seemingly many other people posting on EADD too.

 

[AlsoTapered]

I doubt it will be abusable nor cut through 1,4-benzodiazepine withdrawal but I've suggested a cheap medication that WILL stop the withdrawal.

 

[Andrea Sand]

I'm really quite excited about Tofisopam, I think it deserves a new thread. I've been reading everything I can find about it online, and it is all good news. It really does seem to be a smarter and improved benzo. Benzo 2.0 in a way. A benzo with all the anxiolysys and apparently a much improved dependency profile, and none of the drawbacks, such as cognitive and memory impairments and sedation. It could be exactly what I need for my purposes. And I won't be the only person it could benefit.

If it does work for me and prove helpful I will work out some way of gradually swicthing over from traditional benzos to this new one (Edit: new to me at least). There will inevitably be a period of severe insomnia as there always is following prolonged benzo use. But in the longer term this could be hugely beneficial, as it was / is always the insomnia that causes me the most problems with trying to take days off benzo dosing. Not being able to sleep without benzos gradually became a very real and severe practical problem, that eventually made it very difficult to virtually impossible to take planned days off benzos. I could do it at first but it became more and more un-doable as my doses and length of habit increased.

THere's a lot of "ifs" but if Tofisopam does work for me, and if supplies prove sustainable, and if I get through the insomnia while adjusting from 'old school' to 'new school' benzos, then in future after all that, there would be no rebound insomnia on my days off Tofisopam, making an on /off habit a much realistically and practically sustainable prospect. Meaning it would be far easier to take breaks. Meaning tolerance could be kept lower.

Given all these benefits, the only thing that puzzles me is why there isn't a lot more attention and excitement surrounding this product. I guess it's down to benzos being out of favour, even if they are much improved versions.

I'm very new but cautious of all these strange benzos doing the rounds, withdrawal wise. Has anyone else heard of the 6mmc rumour? Or is it just that. I heard twice the come up ,twice the strength.

 

[AlsoTapered]

I've posted a paper on the connection between the people producing fentanyl and the people making RC benzos.

Ever wondered why 'dirty 30s' have upto 15mg of fentanyl (1200mg morphine) or 10mg of norflunitrazepam (100mg of diazepam)? Not because they are generous, but to place users in the position of having a level of physical dependence which cannot be broken. That even specialists have NO medicines to treat. Flunitrazolam is some x200 diazepam in potency so if you become dependent, no WAY will a detox unit offer hundreds and hundreds of mg of diazepam or grams of morphine (or methadone).

It's a 1-way street.

I HAVE found a treatment that may well help people dependent on benzodiazepines, but it isn't without risk.

Put simply, IF you can obtain medical benzodazepines and you stick to doses used in medicine, you will be OK in the short-term but remember that even medically, most benzos are only prescribed for 14 days... and given the long duration of benzodiazepines, even if taken once a week, you will slowly gain tolerance and dependence.

10 years ago I was using 24mg of diclazepam a day and it took 360mg diazepam a day to stop withdrawal. ONLY because I knew the doctor who then took blood sampled and ONLY because I had begun the detox myself did I receive the care I needed. I'm not proud of it. But I KNOW I was lucky. It took a full year to stop using benzos......

But I took it far too far. But then again, nobody knows in advance how fast tolerance and dependence will occur. IF you get into problems, PM me.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

what really interests about tofisopam is, would it enhance muscle relaxing properties of other benzos

and if there’s really no cognitive and memory impairments long term or does it only appear so cuz there’s no sedation and most other benzo effects beside anxiolysys

 

[Bleaney]

So I've tried this a couple of times so far. First time, I took one pill of an evening,and I didn't really feel much. Possibly a bit of relaxation and possibly boosted some other downers slightly. Pregabs and other Bzs. That would match some the expected effects reported elsewhere.

Second time, half a pill in the afternoon, taken with a stimmy variety of kratom. The result was a really nasty brain fog. It hit me really badly in a way that really did not agree with me and did not feel nice at all. I got quite the opposite of the promised lack of effects on cognition. In fact I felt quite fucked. Not sure if it was because it was day 1 modafinil free after a week of abusing it too much, or if Tofisopam doesn't go with kratom. Or quite what exactly. Maybe it#'s because it hits completely different brain receptors that I'm not used to getting hit, that it felt most strange, and not in a good way.

There's always a lot of variables where taking multiple substances is involved. I know it's not the wisest, most responsible, or sensible thing to do. When I get the chance I need to try it on a head free of anything else. Not during a time of rebound or withdrawal from anythng else. Easier said than done right now where I'm scrabbling to stay afloat with the wokload of my current job..

But this week I have ceased combing kratom and modafinil to try and self medicate for self diagnosed ADHD. I probably stopped just in time as things were becoming messy and hard to control. I've found that unfortunately I seem to build a tolerance to modafinil very fast, so it's really self-defeating for me to try taking it every day.

Maybe it's a positive thing that I've quickly learnt that Modafinil is definitely self limiting. At least it is for me.

Things feel a lot calmer and saner now that I have gone back to just small doses of kratom and old-school benzos. I will try Tofisopam again some day where I don't have work I need to catch up on. Hopefully I will get one of those soon. A day where I can just chill and let my head be in it's natural state to be able to judge what Tofisopam actually does for me.

 

[negrogesic]

Yeah would not recommend tofisopam due to potential antidopaminergic qualities

It is a weird one for sure, somewhat resembling papaverine in structure:

Tofisopram:



Papaverine:



And like papaverine, tofisopam acts as an inhibitor of PDE10A, which is what is behind the neuroleptic properties of these compounds (PDE10A inhibition leads to potentiation of D1 but inhibition of D2 signaling, thus producing somewhat of a neuroleptic effect

Damping down D2 signaling is generally something one should avoid unless they need that sort of thing (ie., such as personal that actually needs a neuroleptic agent)

 

[AlsoTapered]

They are different optical isomers.

 

[Bleaney]

I found last night that it definitely works effectively for sleep (when combined with other downers, for example Mirtazapine)

I guess this is useful in the short term at least. Obviously when I stop taking it I will have rebound insomnia .

As Mirtazapine's usefulness for sleep is fading out on me, Tofiospam could help me get some more mileage out of it yet. Meaning maybe I can cut down on all the whisky I've been using to keep the mirtazapine working

I'm not sure what is the lesser evil tbh. Maybe I could switch between the Mirtazapine additions every week or something like that. And maybe that way avoid becoming too totally dependant on Tofiospam in order to sleep.

 

[AlsoTapered]

I can find no examples of deaths due to tofisopam or people becoming dependant upon it. And YES, obviously I searched in Russian and a the languages of a few other former Soviet nations.

It's not meant to be 'fun', it's meant to prevent dependence on much worse things.

Right now, it's last chance in the benzodiazepine cafe.

OK their are compounds of comparable activity which are chemically unrelated, but just try convincing people who want BENZOS. I mean, even if they couldn't tell in a double-blind, they will argue that people WANT benzos. Well give it a name ending in azepam or something. Nobody has named them so you are quite free to do so.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

@Bleaney I think you wont really find how effective tofisopam if you don’t take a tolerance break from “regular benzos”. Did you get to try it in combo with etizolam?

 

[JackARoe]

Thanks for the update Bleaney. I agree, difficult to discern a drugs effects when multiple drugs are involved. But that is all to common in 2023 for people to be on multiple medications.

Any more info keep us posted. There is not much info on the drugs effects. But if it is an inhibitor of PDE10A info like Negrogesic gave could be useful.

I know this is not the thread. But I wonder if drugs can get stronger. I found three etizolam pills between the couch. Same ones I had. I figured they would lose potency. But 3 for 3 times when I tried 1 1/2 mgs of this etizolam that was out of the bottle for who knows how long I blacked out. Can not remember a thing after I ate. Makes me wonder if etizolam gets stronger as it ages and oxidizes. I am sensitive to the amnesia but this was another level from the same pills. Scared me, it has been weeks since I took an etizolam because of it.

Would like to see more comments on tofisopam.