The "true nature" of the 2C's.

[Bi0hazardOpeth]

Positive After Effects:

However, I now have a stronger working memory and mental bandwidth than ever before. I can work on 3-4 things in my head at once without loosing track of things. I used to lose thoughts or things I wanted to say when someone else was still talking. I would interupt people here and there to make sure I didn't forget what I wanted to say, Now I can hold my response to like 10 key points of what they said and keep it in my working memory until I need to use it. It's completely unprecedented, and a lot of the increased analytical abilities that I get while on 2c-i are still present which is great for debates and reading philosophy/social theory. I also did go through a cold analytical stage during the start of these symptoms for about 3 months or so - I ended up getting out of a relationship I was in for 5 years - which was a good thing - but I really had no emotional down period like I usually would after breaking up. Apathy became a lot stronger in areas, where Analytical thought took over. This disapeared after a couple months though, and was only quasi-influential in my day to day life.

One of the biggest helps to harnessing the left over positive effects was taking between 500mg - 1,000mg of L-tyrosine a day, which really helps keep this faster mental state running all day, without feeling burnt out mid day from 'Overactivity?'. Anyone having issues from 2C-I should definitely try the amino acid L-Tyrosine, which is the precursor for Dopamine and Norephinephrine.

No one is saying, stay away from all 2C's, however the adverse effects that are clearly attributed to 2C's from different users should be expressed and shown to the public and considered by those new to the substances. YMMV. This isn't yellow Journalism, I've had great times on 2C-I and Shrooms. For the first 2 years - multiple times I wished I could go back to before I did 2c-I and have done LSD instead. However, now that the negative effects are dying down 2 1/2 years later - many of the positive effects are still there, so I guess I'll use this new state of analytical perspective to aid me in areas of my life and work. I was planning on taking 2C-C, 2C-D, 2C-T2 before this horrible episode - but now I don't think I will be engaging with 2C's in the future.

----
Others who had the same Issues:
I thought it would be helpful to put together a list of other members going back to 2004, who have experienced the same after effects as me. This stimulant bodyload / jumpy or electric jolts that seem to spasm randomly. Here are "some" of the posts I could quickly put together of others reporting the same thing. I know this doesn't mean everyone will experience it, but it does show I'm not the only one with these specific adverse after effects - that luckily dissipate after 2 1/2 years or so.

(MagickalKat777)
"My stimulation got REALLY bad after 2C-I for a long time too... Interesting."

(theghostofbillhicks):
At first I felt 2c-i to be diet -LSD. And then I realised that it had a shredding, ripping quality. It's rough. It's tweaky. I had strange electrical currents jolting through my system for months, and I developed an odd twitch. All gone now. All definitive, objective prognosis on the physical effects of 2c-i are mere speculation.

(theghostofbillhicks):
2c-i left me, and many others on this board, with residual effects. Mine manifested as electric currents coursing round my body, and the odd bout of muscular shaking. I’ve noticed some persisting muscle tremors (My maximum dose was under 25mg) . The weird pains and muscle spasms just don't make me feel the love. Lets all just hope these side effects are only short term disturbances.

(He later said) “With me it faded with time.” a couple years for him as well.

 

[swilow]

^Thanks for sharing all that. Was a good read.

Without trying to discount your experiences, I have a few ideas to throw out. You mention 'too fast' thinking and bodily spasms, which are very common factors in most anxiety disorders. The fact that Neurontin helped you would also suggest that there was some issue with GABA production or effect, also a probable cause (and result) of prolonged anxiety. Your random appetite can also be tied to anxiety, as constant stress effects metabolism, blood-sugar level and appetite in unpredictable ways. I'm not in any way saying that what you experienced is meaningless or made simpler by the fact it may have been anxiety; anxiety has been a lifelong issue for me, and I can relate to most of your symptoms. All psychedelics can induce a type of anxiety, almost a PTSD style problem. The fact that you've found 3 other posters with similar issues isn't all that relevant given the amount of people who probably haven't encountered these things from 2C-I.

A spiritual view on these reactions might involve something like kundalini awakening. Possibly a process that needs to be followed through, rather then curtailed, for it to retreat. Whether you believe that sort of thing is personal; I'm unsure if I do, but the energy overload is a feeling that can be guided towards a more positive outcome, either through changes in lifestyle, consistently meditating, increasing exercise, learning about various spiritual philosophies and training yourself to accept apparent negative states and do something positive with them.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

A spiritual view on these reactions might involve something like kundalini awakening. Possibly a process that needs to be followed through, rather then curtailed, for it to retreat. Whether you believe that sort of thing is personal; I'm unsure if I do, but the energy overload is a feeling that can be guided towards a more positive outcome, either through changes in lifestyle, consistently meditating, increasing exercise, learning about various spiritual philosophies and training yourself to accept apparent negative states and do something positive with them.

I think the theory may have merit, certainly the mind is a powerful thing, capable of influencing and changing itself. Now, that does not mean I believe in the theory per se, just that, like many mystical/religious beliefs, was created to explain (and thus has some parallels with) existent phenomena. So someday we may have a psychological-physiological explanation for this phenomenon (and thus better treatment methods, hopefully), without resorting to unquantifiable, unmeasurable, magical "energies".

 

[adder]

The fact that you've found 3 other posters with similar issues isn't all that relevant given the amount of people who probably haven't encountered these things from 2C-I.

I totally agree with that. It's not that I'm a some defender of psychedelics whichever class it is. I don't really do psychedelics often, I take them very very rarely, e.g. I took 25C-NBOMe a couple of weeks ago and during the course of the past few days I took 25I-NBOMe and 25D-NBOMe, and I think it was too much although none of experiences were overwhelming and they were kind of refreshing after all despite my expectations and the real outcome. I space MDMA/MDA/MDE intakes in time so that there are at least 2 weeks of a break and mostly I wait at least one month before taking any of MDxx again if I feel an urge to do that. With psychedelics I space intakes much more. But I had episodes when I just couldn't hold myself from trying some PEA because syntheses routes are similar for some "subgroups" and working in a lab one ends up e.g. with a series of 2C-T-x (I had a chance to try 2C-T-2, 2C-T-4, 2C-T-7, 2C-T-13, and 2C-T-21, well, I or my friend just found them interesting in reports), when you have something and you are very interested how it feels, you often try it. Anyway, I never took any psychedelic when I didn't feel "ready" for any trip.

I'm really surprised suddenly more and more people appear replying they experienced the same/similar negative effects after even single use of e.g. 2C-I. This is one of my favorite psychedelic PEAs and as often as I take psychedelics (like I aforementioned, I take them very rarely), many times my choice was 2C-I.

 

[boroboro]

Hello,
I would like to say that I agree on you on that 2c's are very powerful. I very much regret taking the 45mg of 2ci which I took accidentally, the trip lasted 2 days, and the first 24 hours were agonizing pain. I still experience hppd to this day. I took it as an inexperienced 17 year old who was still dealing with the troubles of life, school, and society and now to think of it I wish to have never taken it, as I was in a bad psyche at the time. Not to mention I still experience weird feelings of stress in the chest, which I have yet to get checked out by a doctor. Compared to my experience in lsd and mushrooms, 2ci can be described as jagged, brutal, and overwhelming experience where I experienced extreme depersonalization, feeling as if I am falling down an immense hole which I can never get out of. Also, my memory doesn't seem as good, I am unable to relate with others as I did in the past. It really is quite sad.

 

[Waveryder]

Personally I love 2c when I first started I noticed that I had a very high tolerance, maybe it was my weight. I am around 225 pounds, I had to take about 25mg orally diluted in alcohol to get a real effect. Now I usually take over 50mg but not more than 80. I've used for about 4 months on about 30 occasions. Haven't really had any long term effects of any kind. I've even got to the point where I can toto sleep in mid trip with no after effects the next day. I guess it just effects different people in different ways. One thing though my sense of smell and hearing has increased. Usually I can tell somethings wrong with car by the smell of the exhaust now.

 

[Vader]

You take 50mg of 2C-x every 4 days? That's a lot of tripping.

 

[lolusername]

Last week I made the unfortunate choice of tripping 4 times in a week on 2c-e, other then it not being fun at all, for a few days after, and still slightly today I feel some of the lingering body feel of 2c-e, and for a few days my vision was still slightly altered. There was however no mental after effects at all. The only thing still hanging around is that my normal visual snow just looks different, in a way.

I do not plan on tripping that often on 2c-e ever again, but it really hasn't caused me any serious issues. My question is, how frequently do you think taking 2c-e is fine? I plan on keeping it to once a week, do any of you think that has potential for long term after-effects?

 

[Jesusgreen]

Why trip once a week? Although it'll take a while to build up that way, you'll still have some tolerance tripping every week, and having done that myself I feel I "lost the magic" with 2C-E until giving it a break for a good few months. It isn't as valuable when taken so often.

 

[lolusername]

Well, for fun and introspection, but mostly fun. I do respect the psychedelic experience but I would be lying if I said I had any other reason to do it but for fun. Introspection and figuring things out is only a positive side effect.

 

[Powerup]

May I suggest spacing out your trips a bit more as JG has already mentioned. Its a tough road to go down when your outlet for fun is drugs, no matter what they be. Now that's not to say tripping isn't fun, it's an amazingly 'fun' experience in my book, but I don't jive with the "I've got nothing much to do today/this week.... I'll eat some of this" perspective, if only because its gotten me into bad places in the past. Got an event coming up? A friend you haven't seen in a while who will soon be around? Going for a hiking/camping/climbing expedition? Have some questions about a behavior or relationship? Inspired by a physics problem? Amazed to find a certain flower blooming by your door? Those things and many more I think are all appropriate stims for a trip. But I don't think boredom is. Surely you work, or are chasing knowledge of something in some way -- dedicate yourself to that, and to your family and friends, day in and day out. That is your weekly fun. Go for a run. Climb a rock. Hold someone close who needs it. And then when a little prompt occurs -- add a psychedelic to the mix.

Not trying to tell you what to do or how to enjoy your experiences. This is just my advice. Be careful brother, take the road for the road, and remember, something brighter and better is just around every corner, and under every stone. Be you sober, or in hypserspace.

Love and Light

 

[lolusername]

I can and do have fun without drugs, but they are just another thing I like to do for fun. I sort of binged on 2c-e last week and it was painful. Never doing that again, but yeah from now on once a week is going to be the maximum I trip, but not necessarily trip every week. I honestly like psychedelics because if they are used just to escape problems it goes downhill fast, kind of forces me not to abuse them and treat them like any other drug, like pot or something. I appreciate the post.

 

[mrflippy]

2CI cann be very shallow, or intense, its funn and the tactile feeling can get nasty.

 

[Jesusgreen]

I would say tripping every week is abusing them though. With today's research into psychedelic phenethylamines (and other phenethylamines for that matter) we can say that taking them too often is likely to be unhealthy, not quite as benign as their tryptamine relatives. There is speculation over formation of free radicals when taking phenethylamines - though I haven't done much research into this so I can't tell you whether it's true or false, but if it is true, that would mean you wouldn't be doing your brain any good by tripping so often in such a short period of time. Certainly not.

2C-E quickly loses it's depth and true nature when you trip multiple days or even weeks in a row. I honestly think the "one month rule" for MDMA somewhat applies to psychedelics too, but more when it comes to keeping than magic than matters of neurotoxicity. If you have a 2 or 3 day festival and you want to trip each day - fine, just eat healthy, stay hydrated, and give your body and mind a long break afterwards - if you have an event in a weeks time and you just tripped? Fine - same thing applies. But generally, you should space your trips out at least two weeks, ideally with a month minimum break in between them.

I've been there, taking them every few days to every week for quite some time. Although a lot of people will disagree with this, I think the psychedelic phenethylamines do have a tendency to be habit-forming in SOME users - most people will be fine, but because of their stimulating and euphoric nature, some people can binge on them - and since tolerance tends to build slower than with tryptamines they can often get away with it. Not good for the body or mind though. I'm very glad I stopped using it so often, as the magic has returned and it is a truly blissful and wonderful experience now.

This year I've tripped - 6 times I think? All of them were truly amazing memorable experiences. What about when I was tripping every week? I can't remember most of those at all.

If you really want, you can go back through my posts, and you'll see how stupid it can get. I was taking 50mg+ and having strong but manageable trips, not even realising I'd given myself a huge tolerance. The other day I took just 15mg and it nearly floored me

Now I no longer think "I'm bored, I should trip", in fact, most of the time I plain don't want to trip. But then one day, a day comes along when I know in my heart it'd be a great time, I dose, and it's wonderful :D

 

[LogicSoDeveloped]

Haven't really had any long term effects of any kind. I've even got to the point where I can toto sleep in mid trip with no after effects the next day.

during my first 2c-e experience, I fell asleep around +5:30-+6:00. I was peaking but had also smoked a lot of strong indica that evening and fell asleep not long after my head hit the pillow.

 

[Styrofoam Jones]

Thanks to the OP for posting this thread. Credence to what he is saying:

The major fuction of this forum is to discuss and inform people of the possible consequences and help them be as safe as possible in their psychedelic consumption. Of course, people respond differently to the same chemical - But just because you haven't had similar adverse effects as described here - doesn't mean you should write off the many others who have experienced it and are concerned. The only reason they are taking the time to write up about their experiences is to help inform others so they can be informed of the possible adverse effects before choosing what they ingest in their body. I think this is the principle of why this forum was started in the first place. I also understand some of the complaints of users about "over-generalizing", which are valid - but as far as 2C-I - I can confirm a lot of what the ops and others have experienced. It may not happen to everyone, but my glaring obvious, almost daily obstructing effects have lasted over 2 1/2 years! and are just now starting to get better.

First off, the only psychedelics I have ever done are Shrooms (30+ times over 5 years) and 8 Doses of 2C-I in a little under half a year - most doses were between 18-22mg - always at-least 2 weeks apart. The problems started right after my 4th or 5th time using 2C-I and got worse the other couple times I tried it. Although I have to say, 2C-I was always a beautiful trip for me.

My effects were not as much visual changes but rather a persistent perception/body chemistry change like the OP is discussing. The left over effects had both negative and positive applications, which are all similar to the plus and minuses while on 2c-I itself.

1) For 1 and 1/2 years straight, I felt like I was on a medium dose of stimulants, non stop. Even in my sleep, I would jolt from laying on one side over to the other - with the speed and intensity of being on 30mg of Ritalin. I ended up having to take neurontin to help slow my body down and get past the awkwardness of feeling like I was on stims for weeks on end - with a feeling very similar to the 2c-i bodyload, but in ways worse and more "off". My mental bandwidth was also that of being on 30mg Ritalin - it was flying much faster - connecting thought after thought sometimes too fast for the conversation I was in, which would create a jittery anxiety in social situations. This stimulant effect is just now starting to slowly reduce itself 2 1/2 years later! I also felt very mentally / personality wise "off", for a period of time a lot of my personality disappeared - the only thing that would bring it back fully at the time as Neurontin (Gabapentin). However, this is finally back to normal - but for awhile I would feel "locked up" - my personality felt frozen my body and muscles at times would freeze up - like my face in social situations.

2) Spasms and Energy jolted through my body randomly. I've never had this before in my life, at first it was just these jolts of energy I would get through my body - like an overload release of stimulant energy that would make part of my upper body twitch strongly like a spasm. After a year of having the symptoms - the spasms got much much worse. Similar to a couple or users on this forum had. I began having hand and body temors, I would wake up in the morning and within 15 minutes I would have hand spasms/termors consistently - it even had this "are my hands coming or going" feeling like people discuss with Parkinson. My legs and hands then went through an 8 months period where they would get stiff, and lock up at period of time. Even while I was speaking my muscles would just lock up, and I would have to wait for them to unlock before I could finish talking at times. This lasted for 8 months and finally FINALLY is gone. I would wake up every morning, hoping not to have to deal with the tremors and muscle lock ups - but it would be clear as day

I went to two doctors, my mom is a doctor at a big hospital so I got access to some of the best diagnostics Doctors in the US. I didn't mention 2c-i use at all until after the diagnostics - because I was worried it might be something else or the 2c-i had triggered some other problem. After analyzing me, they said everything showed up fine on my tests, and the doctor said it looks like it was caused by Stimulant use, like the Ritalin I was on 9 years ago. Although, I clearly didn't have any symptoms like this in those 7 years of not taking ritalin before taking 2c-i, and all these symptoms started the Day after my 5th 2c-i experience. All of the 2c-i came from the same vendor so there was no different in synthesis. I then told the doctor about the 2c-i use and that it started right after then, and he told me it sounded right down the alley of what could cause these types of symptoms.

3) Also Right after that 4th or 5th dose, my metabolism seemed to go haywire. I would get incredible hungry out of nowhere, no build up or warning leading towards being kind of hungry - just a jump to feeling like I hadn't eaten in a day. Sugar really helped correct this as well. I also lost control of the sense of my bladder, all of a sudden I would have to pee like I held it in all day - with no warning or build up. It was never a real big issue =P but my monitoring of build up for it was completely gone for 2 weeks after.

(CONTINUED BELOW)


Bi0hazard

Thanks for sharing and putting so much effort into your posts. What you're saying about the physical side effects you've experienced actually resonates with me a lot. I know I haven't mentioned this before, but I don't like to blame these particular problems openly on 2C-E and 2C-I because my body was going through a lot of changes at the time (dramatic dietary changes and extreme weight loss of over 100 pounds being the main catalyst), so who knows where they could have arose. BUT, I've been getting very frequent muscle spasms, heart palpitations and chest / upper abdominal pain (constant and, at times, severe) that were not there before I experimented with the 2C's, and have been a huge problem for me since. I personally believe that there's a very good chance that they were brought on by the 2C-E / 2C-I, but again, I do not like to openly blame the 2C's for this because it was a rather stressful time for my body in general and there's no way of being certain what caused it. But I have been to all sorts of doctors and have been thoroughly checked out, just as you have, and none have been able to find a reason for these pains and have simply written them off as psychosomatic or anxiety-driven. But I've been dealing with these unpleasant physical effects for long enough to know that, while they do worsen with anxiety, they are not caused by it. My anxiety continues to improve but the pains remain unchanged, and the major reason anxiety became such a problem for me in the first place was BECAUSE of the pains. The chest is a very vulnerable-feeling area and constant pain in that region takes a major toll, especially when coupled with spasms and palpitations.

The pain might have been there before 2C-E, but whilst on it was the first time I had ever felt it to such a degree and the first time it became truly apparent and began to stand out to me throughout every day life. It's a sore, splitting sensation, like a hot wedge being driven into the center of my chest, coupled with a tight, twisting / tearing sensation across my entire chest that feels like hot, invisible hands are pulling my chest muscles way too taught and pinching or twisting them all over. And at times my chest will almost feel electrified, like there's a prickly electrical current running through it. I know that sounds intense but I am not over exaggerating, this pain has been a huge obstacle for me over the last year or so and it is no better now than when it started, I've just had to work to accept, ignore, and ultimately live with it. It is with me CONSTANTLY at varying degrees. Sometimes overwhelming, sometimes ignorable, but always there. The only time I can't feel it is on heavy doses of dissociatives.

 

[Mysterie]

ive done 2c-i and 2c-e alot of times and i can agree that 2c-i does feel cold and institutional i guess, always get shitty side effects if i try dose enough to get CEV's or OEV's, 2c-e i dont mind, just a bit of nausea and vomiting every now and then but considering how fucked it tastes and snorts it doesnt suprise me

 

[MattPsy]

Confirmation bias up in hurr...

Haha, indeed

 

[kobilica]

I noticed also changed memory, let's say it works even more in associative way. Whenever I talk to some person, I have stuff in memory. As soon as person leaves, I forget stuff. When I meet same person again, I get stuff back in the head. It is long term memory, because I can remember what I have been talking with a person one month back. But I have to meet her in order to remember that. Alone, I can't remember.

It also works same for places.

Don't know if it was 2c-x fault, but definitely it is trippy.

Short term memory works same way. I also think it is kinda shorter, but good thing is some stuff gets stored or lets say, burned into long term. I can remember weird stuff, also very small details from long time ago. I can rewind. But rewinding doesn't always work. It works best if stuff happened not so long a go (7 days maximum).

2C made me very strange socially. If I know people, I will tell them absolutely anything, but If I don't know people good, I will be quiet like I am not there. Social anxiety maybe? Maybe.

 

[Bi0hazardOpeth]

kobilica,

To get rid of those negative side effects, I can highly recommend 400mg of Neurontin (Gabapentin) 2x a day - if you can get prescribed, if not 1x a day would also work well. It is one of the most benign and side effect free medicines I've ever tried. It will unlock that same open social personality you have with your best friends and family with anyone you meet. Even walking up to perfect strangers and starting conversations like they were good friends with no awkward vibes at all. Its unprecedented in how incredibly effective it is for the exact socially off feeling I got from 2c-i, and there aren't really any noticeable side effects for most people. Overall, it really helped me keep the positive left over effects of 2c-I, while getting over most of the negative effects better than anything else.

***Disclaimer*** DO NOT IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE MIX (Neurontin) with Opioids! Be very careful when mixing it with benzo's especially larger doses - this is serious. Neurontin overall is a very safe drug, but jumps opiods and benzo's into the OVERDOSE range way too easily. Taken alone, it has less side effects than 90% of all pharms, and is incredibly effective. Also drinking on it, makes you get drunk 2-3x as much - so be conscious of this if you drink on it. ****

One of the other great effects of 400mg of Neurontin 2x a day, is that it has this incredible glow to it. It is like the blissful afterglow of a Shroom trip without any mental/psychedelic mix up, just that blissful heightened color and appreciation of nature, light, life etc... I would recommend most people take it for this effect alone, people would be much more sociable and open to the world around them. Music sounds incredible, the sky has a sense of nostalgia reminiscent of your favorite summer memory - things feel very sentimental in a positive uplifting/look at the beauty in the world effect - never a pulling you down one.

I highly recommend staying away from SSRI's I think those are pretty nasty and can leave people unable to enjoy life for months after they stop taking them. Neurontin is the perfect remedy for that awkwardness after 2c-i, and it is very in control and you barely even feel that there is a chemical inside you, although it's obvious it's working very strongly. Some SSRI's make people act silly, or go overboard without realizing where the lines are - on Neurtonin you rarely ever look back and think "oh shit, I just did that?" or "oops I shouldn't have said that" - you are crystal clear.