The "true nature" of the 2C's.

[Styrofoam Jones]

After truly coming to terms with the nature of the 2C's, I have to wholeheartedly warn against them. Don't get me wrong, I respect them as psychedelics and I truly loved them at first, but they're just terrible things to expose your mind / body to on any kind of regular basis. They just aren't worth it.

There's a certain organic feel to a lot of psychedelics that is completely missing from the 2C series. I feel like they collide with my humanity in a way, and take me a step farther from the person that I strive to be. They feel robotic, analytical, cold... and just kind of acidic and toxic. And they have an eerily lingering effect... I don't really know how else to explain it. The HPPD rate of the 2Cs is staggering compared to other psychedelics, and those are only the long-term changes that are visually apparent. They fuck with your base perceptions in a way unlike other substances. Talk to just about anybody who has experienced a temporary psychosis, derealization / depersonalization disorder, panic / anxiety disorder, or some other form of psychedelic related mental illness and they will most likely blame one or multiple 2C-X compounds. I respect Shulgin and his work, and I wouldn't just bad-mouth the series like this if I hadn't talked to an unsettling amount of other long-time users who've shared similar opinions.

I wish I could go back in time and stop myself before I ever fucked with the 2C's. It really wasn't worth it. They seem like any other psychedelic at first, the promise of something great is there, but they're just empty and maddening. They're a cold yet deceptively inviting, rainbow-colored black hole of empty pseudo-psychedelic sensations bleeding into other sensations with no real substance or value. It's psychedelic candy that can be enjoyable but do nothing for you in the long-term, and may very well harm you. It's like a cheap imitation of the true psychedelic experience. And it's nothing against research chemicals, I truly love some of them (like 4-AcO-DMT and aMT)... but sometimes they just don't pan out. I feel like they unlocked this part of my mind that's always kind of there and truly wasn't meant to be. It's not that peaceful, transcendental kind of higher mind thing, it's a maddening place that simply isn't appropriate for the human mind to experience on any level, but the 2C's forced it out anyway. It can't and shouldn't be fathomed, it's just madness and nonsense and sensory overloads and mash-ups masquerading as some kind of fake "higher" psychedelic state. Bullshit if there ever was any.

From what I've seen, those who haven't used these substances much seem to look at them favorably, and those who've been around the block with them a few times and truly understand the nature of the drug seem to kind of despise them. This is at least true with 2C-I and 2C-E (which happen to be the only ones I've tried thus far). People recommend these substances to beginners all the time and I just don't think it's right. They're made out to be so sweet and innocent and they really do seem that way at first, but you really need a strong sense of mental stability before diving into these chemicals. Even then, I don't really see anything coming of it. I almost let them scare me off drugs for good, and I'm so glad I didn't. They made me think that all psychedelic experiences were like them, but it was really just the ingrained nastiness of the 2C's that was causing me any kind of trouble.

I've been using psychedelics and dissociatives for a long time now, and I always feel like I've gained something throughout all of my other trips. Even if the experience was bad, I feel like I gained some kind of strength or insight by powering through it and ending up on top. But the 2C's were just a completely draining venture, and I've definitely lost something to them. Some form of humanity... some kind of existential innocence. It's been a year since the 2C experience really dragged me down to the depths of my own personal hell, and while I've gotten a lot better I still haven't fully recovered and am not sure I ever will. And I've run into an unsettling amount of others who've shared a similar horror story with me. They're extremely interesting and beautiful substances, but I dunno. I just can't help but warn others to take it easy with them. Like I said, the state is just not appropriate for the human mind to experience at any level, and the more you're there the worse it gets. I know that's kind of the point of psychedelics, but the 2C's are just... different. And wrong.

 

[jamaica0535]

Dont take any of this too critically, I don't know you... And hey, I might be wrong, but at the end of the day its always easier to blame other people or parts of our lives than it is to take responsibility for our own actions.

The only long term damage due to consumption of 2c-i that I know is a girl that claims to no longer have a sense of smell after she snorted 300mg one day.... She is schizophrenic, but that stems from being raised in an environment of physical and emotional trauma, forcefully drugged, and sexually abused regularly during her childhood. Has the sort of past that makes most of ours look like a trip to Disney world.

You obviously must have liked it a lot to push it far enough to start causing yourself significant problems.
Look at your amounts of usage, were you a once a month user or did you abuse 2c's every day?

You can have too much of anything, and these drugs aren't particularly addicting. Maybe that void you felt in your life was always there whether you realized it or not, started doing 2c-x to cope with it, started doing it a lot, and that made the void more visible to you. Then you stop, and the void is still there. Blame problems on the drugs.

Take a moment and try to view your hole situation as a conscious observer, what fueled the overuse of this compound? Existential innocence? what does that even mean? 2c-x didn't drag you into a personal hell, you were the one responsible for getting yourself wherever you ended up.

I know a lot more people that have been able to fix their psychological problems with psychedelics than people that blame them for their psychology.

Want to blame someone? I would bet that you didn't have an exactly ideal childhood, lacked some guidance early on that would have made things so much easier for you. Maybe its not even something you can put your finger on but there is the feeling that something is just lacking... In the end you are your own person, even if your parents had a lot to do with who you end up being. You were the one who did all of those drugs. I don't know if you know this, but most drugs, even ones considered medications tend to have side effects.

Fixating on it won't make it better, going about and reminding those around you and yourself about how 2c ruined your life, or fucked your brain up and now you get trails when things move. It all just reinforces the ideas in the brain that your getting visuals, and your brain is somehow damaged. Being able to blame it on the drugs doesn't fix it, figure out why you went to such excess in the first place and figure out how to better deal with the problems in your life without drugs. Using drugs to cope with the stresses of life just tends to turn into a vicious cycle. I watched a close family member as they spiraled into prescription drug abuse. She was taking hydrocodone and oxycodone for apparent pain in her back, apparently she has anxiety disorder badly enough to need xanax, restless leg syndrome for another 40 klonopin a month, ambien because she couldn't sleep at night. Also took some SSRI medications and various antipsychotics.

This is someone that really doesn't have much stress or hardship on her life. She doesn't have back problems, and drug addict suits her better than mentally ill, I have never seen her have an anxiety attack. I have seen her have 2 seizures stemming from withdrawal of the xanax she has been on for a decade. She lost control, doesn't remember much, falls, been arrested for DUI for nodding out at the wheel more than once, I stopped counting the number of times in and out of rehab.

Blaming the drugs for the problem is like blaming your car or tree when you stop paying attention and crash it into a tree... You, car, and tree are all affected in some way, but you were the one that got yourself in the situation.

If you still want a better living through chemistry approach, consider nootropics to help improve cognition and brain health. Piracetam + Alpha GPC = awesome. Take a multivitamin. Get some exercise.

 

[kingme]

I must say this is one of the best written posts ive read in a while here on PD, quite poetic in certain moments. Kudos!

and it does speak some truths, but i dont agree with it completely... for once, you seem to be very experienced with substances, and speaking more about thier regular use, which as most agree, is quite different in effects from occasional/rare use. integration of a trip is also a necessary step in thge psychedlic experience, and i believe neglecting this step is what may cause some to feel as if a certain substance is bringing out something into their mind that is alien, or otherwise unwelcome, instead of understanding the new part that is coming to light, trying to figure out why it was hidden all this time and how it came to be there...
i really feel like psychedelics really jsut bring out things that are already there, and if one chooses to dislike what they see, it is not the problem with the substance that braught it out... if you are looking in a dark basement with just a flashlight, having fun, or trying to find some meaning to your being there, only to discover a skeleton... would you blame the flashlight? or the light itself? understanding how it came to be there, why it is there and if you must do something about it feels like a more appropriate response...

physically, i agree that these substances are not really 100% safe. but neither is any other drug, and while there is some anecdotal substance to 2ci binging bringing about more HPPD than other substances, this happens usually after serious abuse.

in my opinion, i wouldnt ever advise a newcomer to take 2ce as a light and fun trip. sure, it can be that, but it usually isnt. most trip reports can testify to this, and even on erowid it is considered a powerful, deep, analytical trip, although it is also colorful. and since you experienced only 2ce and 2ci... perhaps some lighter versions, like 2cc or 2cb might show you a new face to this series....

various people react differently to various drugs. for instance i personally find aMT to be quite the taxing trip, while others suggest it as an mdma alternative even. some love 4aco dmt, why i only find it pales in comparison to mushrooms. that doesnt mean i warn people off 4aco dmt or amt, just completing the rainbow of psychedelic effects that these substances offer.

 

[donvliet]

Every drug has it's dangers. Some more so than others, but there's always risk. The 2C-x are different from the classic psychedelics such as LSD and shrooms. Some aspects, such as the release of monoamines, are more like MDMA. So the side effects will also be different, and potentially more dangerous. We do not know as much about most of them as we do about the classics, but so far they seem to be in the same ballpark (risk wise) as MDMA and LSD. The key to safe use is to acknowledge the risk and to err on the side of caution.

I think 2C-x can be useful psychedelics despite them being less deep than the classics, but I don't use them more than a few times a year. The same goes for LSD or shrooms by the way, only a few times a year. I used to trip more often, but found it to be counterproductive. My doses aren't that high either. My sweet spot for 2C-I is 18 mg. I have been using psychedelics, including various 2C-x, for 20 years now, without any real drawbacks.

IMO the 2C-x work well for combinations. 2C-I needs weed, and I'm not for combining weed with everything. 2C-B with LSD is very nice. They have their place in the spectrum of substances.

 

[IamMe90]

I must say this is one of the best written posts ive read in a while here on PD, quite poetic in certain moments. Kudos!

I think the OP is sanctimonious, holier than thou, presumptive, and very, very immature. It screams of "I made several extremely irresponsible and regrettable life decisions and now I want to deflect blame onto ANYTHING else but myself for having made them. DAMN THE 2C'S!!"

I think you should read the post that follows, it is much more "real."

To the OP:

1) Even if everything you said is really true about the 2c's being cold, analytical, and counter to your "humanity," please refrain from passing these sort of judgments on the drugs as a whole. Everyone reacts differently. I certainly don't react that way to the 2c-x series or I wouldn't enjoy taking them so much.

2) Please examine your own life and choices, and take responsibility for your mistakes. The 2c-x drugs aren't some kind of willing agents of evil that want to cause destruction and regret in the lives of those who take them, they are simply tools that can be used in responsible and irresponsible ways. You clearly abused them to be feeling this sort of psychological trauma, and if you want to really move on in your life, I'd suggest owning up to your mistakes and trying to fix the root of your problems in life, not blame a lifeless substance for your abuse of it. For God's sake, these aren't crack, and most crack addicts still have to fix their lives to get clean instead of just blaming crack.

3) What is existential innocence, and is it real? It doesn't seem so to me, and dealing with this existential "corruption," after I grew up, was one of the main reasons I turned to psychedelics in the first place. The world isn't existentially innocent; figuring out how to make your way through it as a wholesome and satisfied person is the mature thing to do.

4) You're wrong.

 

[yardbirdrc]

This is at least true with 2C-I and 2C-E (which happen to be the only ones I've tried thus far).

There's your problem. You really can't generalize about the whole family based on those two, 2c-i is freakish and 2c-e is (from what i hear) equally strange. All the 2c's are pretty different. 2c-b feels a lot like mescaline, just shallower somehow. And as for that "organic feel", I don't think something can feel inherently organic, I think that is a judgement you make based on other things that you've experienced in life. People say some psychedelics feel more "natural", but I've often wondered how they'd say that if they had no idea what the drug was or where it came from. Would someone who isn't psychedelically knowledgeable at all, given 4-ho-dmt and 2c-b on separate occasions, say one was more "natural" than the other? I think the reason you feel things like 4-aco and amt are more "organic" is because they line up with other "organic" drugs that you've taken like mushrooms. I guess i'm of the view that ligands are ligands, no matter if they were forged in a flask or in a fungus. I'm curious, have you taken mescaline?

 

[omicamushroom]

Some people just use too frequently and use too high amounts... That seems to be what causes hppd.. I have learned that they are probably not the best chems to use a lot of... I prefer smaller doses with most of the rcs... I love me some highdose mushroom trips though. I am a fan of DMT... I feel as though my 2c use is a bit different... as I do not strive to fuck myself up... I mostly just enjoy the analytical mindspace... High doses of them definitely mind fuck me and make my body feel strange... Eating more than 20mg of 2ce, or taking too much 2cb will give me certain tensions within my body... 2ci makes me feel too stimulated... The t series has caused ridiculous visual disturbances and strange temperature changes in me. Mostly the chems only fuck with me when I have taken too much... I am safer about it now than I have been in the past.

12-16mg 2ce is perfect for me.
16-25mg 2cb is good...
7-10mg 2cp is good.

Haven't used the others nearly enough to know... Mainly used them when I was binging too hard anyways... and my life was strange altogether.

They are all pretty decent... They just give you less anxiety than some of the more "organic" ones... so people feel like they can push the levels with them more.

 

[greenmeanies]

Exactly. The 2C-X often gets a bad rap because in the past, it was ludicrously easy for a dormroom kid to get a whole gram (40-100 solid doses depending on the flavor) and start going to town every other night. Compare to mushrooms, where even a bumper crop is good for maybe two amazing nights with your tripping crew. The potential for abuse of 2C-X put them in a very interesting "statistical study" where there were dozens of trip reports being posted on these substances every weekend by people who have been studying them IN DEPTH for perhaps a couple months at the most.

Recall that Shulgin himself took several years to carefully evaluate all of his babies. 2C-I is just like mushrooms and LSD, and it is all up to the self-control of the user to prevent negative side effects from chronic abuse.

 

[Styrofoam Jones]

I educate myself as much as possible on any drug that I choose to use or choose not to use, and I fully understand the dangers. And I do not need a therapy session, however I truly appreciate the concerns in this thread. I have been using psychedelics for years and 2C-E and 2C-I are the only ones that have caused me any kind of serious mental issues. I have and do use DMT, Salvia, MXE, Ketamine, 4-AcO-DMT, marijuana, mushrooms, DXM, nitrous, aMT and LSD without any of these same problems. And like I said, I have connected with an unsettling amount of others over the unique kind of "damage" that 2C-I and 2C-E have done to us. Perhaps it is only those members of the 2C family, but I truly believe that there is something to these chemicals that is not conducive to a stable human mind (more so than other psychedelics) and that the perception shifts that come from this experience have a higher incidence of some kind of permanence than with other drugs. My HPPD was there from my very first 2C-E experience and was in no way a result of abuse. Is it so hard to believe that the natural action of a certain psychedelic might bring forth a higher chance of "something going wrong" than others?

This is something I felt passionate enough about to speak out on, especially since these chemicals have so little that is known about them, and most people who spread anecdotal information about them are teenagers who'll praise anything that'll make them see pretty colors. I knew it would rustle some jimmies, and perhaps I am wrong. It is only my opinion. Am I allowed to have one of those? Or maybe we should all just sit around and praise any and all psychedelic experiences in all of their infinite glory, because they can do no wrong unless the user is an abusive drug addict or was predestined for mental insanity from the moment his poor little head popped out of his mother's vagina? That will get us very far as a community.

"Organic", in the sense that I am using it, has nothing to do with whether the substance occurs naturally or not. 4-AcO-DMT feels organic to me, as do plenty of other man-made psychedelic chemicals. You know that sweeping, universal sense of "one as all" that comes from so many psychedelics? That intense, dissolving into the ether kind of sensation? Doesn't that just feel right, not only to you as a human, but you as a consciousness? That's what I mean by an "organic" experience. Not something that is natural, something that FEELS natural. 2C-E and 2C-I make me feel tense and uncomfortable physically, and mentally they make me feel like I'm becoming a hyper-analytical, overly emotional robot, some kind of mechanical construct that was built just a little too smart for his own good. And that expanding, one as all sensation is replaced by a maddening, inward collapse. I feel like my brain is bleeding thoughts and sensations that loop into each other. There's no way to decipher or integrate it. It's simply a collection of moments that, at the end of the day, feel like complete nonsense. I can look back at my time spent with any other psychedelic substance and grab all sorts of little gems of wisdom from them. But with the 2C's, all I can take are cool little moments of sensation, if even that. And that's not to say they aren't deep. Again, they've taken me farther out than just about anything. They're just not... decipherable or useful to me in any way, no matter how much they seem to be at the time.

I've experienced ego death on two things. DMT and 2C-E. DMT ego death was like becoming all of the energy of the universe. It was the most viscerally spiritual thing I have ever experienced. I came out the other side feeling completely renewed and deeply at peace. 2C-E ego death was like being trapped in a disconnected realm of pure senses (not just physical senses, but abstract ones as well, like the "sense" of time) that bled into each other so completely that I was nothing but a shade of jumbled, looping rainbow sensations with no sense of self or origin. I came out the other side feeling shattered. Do you see where I'm going with this? It feels like a mind crushing psychedelic as opposed to a mind expanding one. My brain bleeds sensation and there's just no sense to make of it all. I feel like there's nothing to gain in the long term but nonsensical mental saturation and madness. I have had good times on it, great times in fact, promising experiences that made me think there was something "more" for me there. But at the end of the day there just wasn't.

I see the depths of the 2C experience. I have been more "far out" on 2C-E and 2C-I than I have on anything outside of DMT or Salvia, and I have never used anything more than 25mg (I only did this once, all other doses were 15-20mg). It was long ago, but I would say I used these drugs twice a month for three or four months. Perhaps that is a little much and they are simply substances that don't at all lend themselves to frequent usage. But I have used other psychedelics with such frequency and never encountered much of a problem. After falling into that personal hell I quit using them completely for a year, thinking it might have just been too frequent of a psychedelic endeavor. I just recently decided to cautiously experiment with 2C-E once more, and while I was able to have a good trip, I felt pulled in the same mental direction that I had just spent so long trying to reconcile myself with. At this point I'm calling it quits with 2C-E and 2C-I for good. You're right though, yardbird. I shouldn't have called out the entire 2C family, I know that E, I, and P are supposedly the "nastiest". I still wish to try the rest of them, namely C, B, and D.

As for existential innocence, I honestly do not know. Perhaps "psychedelic innocence" would be more appropriate. The constructs of the mind are hardly describable whilst sober. This is even more true when speaking of ones brought on by the psychedelic experience. That is simply the best way that I could put what I was feeling into words, do not take my descriptions of psychedelics so literally. To try my best to explain it, the 2C experience, which is one that has been enjoyable but never quite comfortable, has stuck with me. It has brought out a side of my mind that lingers, a side that is somehow super aware of the chemical and analytical nature of life. When I was less adapted to it and would unintentionally bring it to the forefront, I had never felt closer to insanity. I have seen the dark side of many other substances and one has never effected me as wholly and wrongly as the dark side of the 2Cs.

Perhaps I'll just say be careful and leave it at that. So many people go on and on about how mild and safe and perfect-for-begginers the 2C's are and I just don't see that to be the least bit true, even though they may seem that way at first.

 

[✰hyperobjects✰]

I think the OP is sanctimonious, holier than thou, presumptive, and very, very immature. It screams of "I made several extremely irresponsible and regrettable life decisions and now I want to deflect blame onto ANYTHING else but myself for having made them. DAMN THE 2C'S!!"

True dat.

To the OP: The 2c-*'s are a quite beautiful series if you approach them with respect and trepidation, each is unique and exploring this series, and RCs in general, provide first hand data that can inform neurophilosophical inquiry into the quantum-molecular basis of perception and experience.

Psychedelics catalyze personality development and bring to awareness information that is already inside you, perhaps the cold mechanical evil that you felt on 2c-e is really an aspect of yourself you are unable to accept yet? Or perhaps this is 2c-e/i's way of telling you these compounds are not your ally. Please consider that not every psychedelic is right for everyone, body chemistry and psyches vary dramatically. You have to find your allies and to recognize when a particular compound isn't the right tool for you. Your opinion on the toxic effects of the 2c-*'s remains unsubstantiated by any toxicology reports. :-/

For me, I 2c-e/i/b much more than LSD because the duration is shorter and I don't feel as psychologically fragmented the next day. I feel this to the point where I have almost completely abandoned using LSD, even though there was a period in my life where I experimented with it heavily. I would never go out and say LSD is dangerous useless drug unlike visionary plants that produce "true hallucinations", it's just not my cup of tea these days. Also, if you've only done 2c-e and 2c-i there's no way you can speak for the whole series, 2c-t-7 is quite a radically different experience from 2c-t-21, 2c-d, or 2c-p.

and leave the organic/natural BS at the door please. That's a question of aesthetics. Some people prefer the refreshing cold of digital blobs over the smothering (and gaudy) warmth of organic fractals. Neither is better, it boils down to preference.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

The OP seems to assume that the effects these drugs have had on him are generalizable to the population at large, and that is complete bologna. Different things affect different people differently.

 

[Styrofoam Jones]

The OP seems to assume that the effects these drugs have had on him are generalizable to the population at large, and that is complete bologna. Different things affect different people differently.

"I respect Shulgin and his work, and I wouldn't just bad-mouth the series like this if I hadn't talked to an unsettling amount of other long-time users who've shared similar opinions."

"And like I said, I have connected with an unsettling amount of others over the unique kind of "damage" that 2C-I and 2C-E have done to us."

I feel like a lot of you are skimming over my words just so you can get to attacking me for spreading a negative opinion on one of your sacred psychedelic substances. Nobody has anything but speculations and opinions and anecdotal evidence when it comes to the 2C's. Why are mine so deplorable? I certainly went overboard calling it the "true nature", but come on.

And you guys know nothing about me. Why do you feel the need to make such nasty assumptions?

Forget it, I was high and this was a terrible idea.

 

[SpecialK_]

I've read about halfway down, but anyway I usually agree with the posts of many here and would tend to view the 2Cs as safe as most other chemicals. But just thought I'd mention, I know a few people who've had problems psychotically and most of them blame 2c chemicals for triggering it. Slightly worrying, I've noticed no side negative side effects from them and don't personally enjoy them. The feelings on them just aren't too good and the visuals are very repetitive for me. I'd like to hear more on people or friends personal experiences, rather than people defending the stuff without much personal experience.

HPPD is a recognized issue with the 2cs for a lot of us online, many believe that they do bring on HPPD or make it more prominent faster. To be honest I wouldn't be surprised, they are so simple to dose and provide very fast paced in your face visuals at the higher doses. I'm sure the same would happen if you were replicating the same intensity of visuals on acid on a regular basis. It's things like these that need to be considered, think this is a really good topic for discussion best I've seen in a while. It's possible certain 2cs of the family could bring problems faster than if they say happened on LSD/Psilocybin and so it makes them appear to be less likely to happen. I think the amount you use them is a real important factor here I've never heard of bad problems with the 2cs in people who haven't tripped on them many times.

 

[AlyDrops]

I've used 2C-I a pretty good amount of times and I love it. I already was very analytical before I started psychedelics, 2C-I has never truly effected my mindset in any way more severe than just making me feel very sped out, and I've taken it up to 90 mg. I already had HPPD before I used it and my use didn't effect it. Honestly, that 2C-E ego death you've described sounds amazing, I need to get my hands on that substance.

I know some people don't like the 2Cs or have psychological problems after using them, but different people have different psychedelic allies, and I absolutely love the sensory blending of all the psychedelic phenethylamines I've tried (more than just the 2Cs).

 

[Flickering]

I wanted to try 2C-B and 2C-E, but I might not, because lately I've been hearing a lot of the same thing - research chemicals frequently causing HPPD or mental instability. I've experienced visual / mental flashbacks before and I wouldn't be surprised if a 2C-x compound exacerbated this into full HPPD, so I'm not going to fuck around with them. It's a bit of a shame, because I was looking forward to taking 2C-B to a few colourful science museums, but my goal with psychedelics was always self-developmental so it's probably best not to be frivilous with things that can break your brain.

I'd like to agree with what others have said: any experience is subjective and people will vary wildly, even if you've met a lot of people who agree that the 2C-x compounds are bad news. Caution is never a bad thing, though.

One of my flatmates says the same thing you say about these compounds, but for all psychedelics. She's convinced that they're malevolent forces that appear to help you, but actually throw you off your spiritual course with distortions and escapism. (I know that's not really what you were saying.) Arguing this with her frustrates me to no end because it's very clear to me that the fault lies with her and the way she used them, not with the drugs themselves.

On the other hand, there is something very right about LSD / shrooms / mescaline, classic and indeed organic experiences that I have trouble believing a more or less randomly synthesized compound could aspire to. But I don't speak from experience.

Or maybe we should all just sit around and praise any and all psychedelic experiences in all of their infinite glory, because they can do no wrong unless the user is an abusive drug addict or was predestined for mental insanity from the moment his poor little head popped out of his mother's vagina?

I have a problem with the whole attitude as well. Sure, it's reassuring to think that the only people psychedelics will drive insane had serious issues to begin with, but it's a slippery issue and it's too easy to edit in retrospect. "Well, she lost her mind, she obviously had latent schizophrenia." Having had bad experiences, I have no trouble believing that a powerful enough blast, or frequent use, could muddle just about anyone up. Some people are doubtless more susceptible than others, sure. Depression, existential angst, questioning self, anxious, insecure, full of doubt, dissociated, all these things can mix badly with drug use and you're obviously going to be much safer if you're at a good, stable place in your life. But it's always going to be a risk for anyone. I don't think the immunity attitude is particularly realistic or useful.

 

[IamMe90]

We probably wouldn't have felt it necessary to scrutinize the OP's own mental faculties if he hadn't been so quick to zealously condemn the subjective experiences of others as misguided by a "bad" chemical. What would have been appropriate would to just move on from the 2c-x series and not pass judgment.

 

[sekio]

What do you expect, dude, they're drugs.

[edit] I stopped reading when I hit this:

It's like a cheap imitation of the true psychedelic experience.

The "true" psychedelic experience? Grasshopper, you have a lot to learn. There is no Buddha!

 

[RhythmSpring]

Isn't it interesting that we often describe psychedelics using descriptors normally used for people?

...cold and analytical...

What are we really describing here?

 

[Flickering]

The "true" psychedelic experience? Grasshopper, you have a lot to learn. There is no Buddha!

Reminds me of my first real acid trip, where I realised that enlightenment is a state where you realise enlightened people are full of shit, now just stop complicating it and be.

 

[SpecialK_]

Now that you've all got your complaints off your chest does anyone have anything of value to contribute this? I've heard of plenty of instances like this throughout BL so I'd like to hear some more. It's possible this is all true, I don't think it should be cast aside so easily and with the likes of the nbome chemicals, etc appearing as analogues of 2cs. What way were people taking it? Was the appearance of the negative side effects evident soon after the trip?

We probably wouldn't have felt it necessary to scrutinize the OP's own mental faculties if he hadn't been so quick to zealously condemn the subjective experiences of others as misguided by a "bad" chemical. What would have been appropriate would to just move on from the 2c-x series and not pass judgment.

It's a forum.