The "Thousand Mile Stare" from long-term steroid use?

Stargazer

Stargazer

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My ex-husband/my daughter's father is a competitive body builder. He's taken steroids pretty much all of his adult life.

I didn't understand that steriods give you energy...he was always ready to go out and do something, he only required abou tfour hours of sleep, , when I was exhausted from work,and being a mom. When it finally ended...one summer, he stopped coming home. He got huge...his legs looked liked a Shetland pony's...huge, veiny quads...when he fanned them out, they looked gross. Which is exactly what body-builders love hearing...not unlike anorexics that love to hear they are way too thin. I have some experience w that...I loved hearing everyone telling me how thin or too thin I was...I'm pretty much over that...I still have a distorted body image. But, us woman have so much pressure to look perfect...it's terrible.

He has stopped taking steroids. He's a total wreck.He's still in peak condition. But naturally. But something is terribly wrong w him. I never thought the day would come that I"d ever feel bad for the guy..he put me through hell. It took me five years to get over the divorce. It was devestating for me...he was really really a jerk...didn't help w his daughter. Left us struggling. I"m surprised I feel bad for him. The only thing I have ever wanted if for him to be treated w the same amount of kindness he showed me and our daughter. None.

Now just sits there, almost catatonic, staring into the distance. He's unresponsive. I have never seen this cocky guy, that told someone at the mall he was going to poke his eyes out w a pen for saying something really sexual to our daughter.feel bad...or guilty. His responses are delayed, i.e., he has a two year old son who is absolutely precious. I was at his mom's house a few mos ago, and he showed up w one of his young sons...I said, "You're son is absolutely adorable". He stares for about forty seconds....then smiles in acknowledgement. His mom has this Halloween decoration...its a dancing broom, from one if the disney movies. It creeps me out to be honest. It has long gray hair, and a witch hat on, on a broomstick. It twirls in circles while playing this nerve grating music. His mom turned it on for his son to watch it....my ex-husband and I were standing next to eachother, watching. I said, "Look at your son's body language" He squashed himself into the space between the refrigerator and the counter, looking traumatized. It was cute and funny. Again, the delayed reaction...

He has told me he has a "heavy heart right now" This has been going on for about or almost a year. What is wrong? Do steroids do this to your emotions. I never realized that a person feels great on steroids. I thought they were like using a vitamin, meaning they had no effect on a person's mood.

I really am wondering if he is messed up from the long-term steroid use. I have never seen him like this. He even feels guilty for what he did to me.Believe me, that is huge. He feels bad for nothing usually. Uh...that would've been great, some years back. My daughter told me everytime he passes my house he says' "I screwed my wife over...I can't believe what I did to that girl". He feels guilty for not being a good father to our daughter...she was very sensitive when she was little. He'd yell at her and shame her, etc...and she would be beside herself. He'd tell her she was fat, etc. He is now remembering all of this...and can't shake the guilt toward her or me.

He also took it hard when I lost my parents. When we first split up, my mother called him at work. He worked 3-11, at the hospital. She said, "You can never get your first family back, it's never the same". He is haunted by it. So. first, I lost my mom on 1-1-11, and then my dad on August 11, 2012. He seems to feel like he is somehow involved in this...I am re-married. It's not his concern. When he had his two yr old son, around thanksgiving time. He suddenly felt guilty toward my parents...and remembered all the great stuff we did w them....like going to Atlantic City, and being comped through my dad. And how my mother always made the holidays really nice. He called, they didn't pick up the phone, but he left a msg saying Happy Thanksgiving, and telling my mother he remembers how nice she made everything. Now, he live in an apt w four children, his girlfriend and her mother.His girlfriend has twins..a boy and a girl. They are really wild. He also sees how well-behaved our daughter was. How well she spoke at a really young age. He is in a situation he feels trapped and overwhelmed in.He wasn't happy about his gf being pregant a second time. His girlfriends' mom is not so sane...she's seventy, and vacuums naked, has sex toys that she accused my ex husband and his girlfriend of taking. He can't handle stuff like that lol.

Our daughter no sympathy for him at all. She wants him to snap our of it. He is really funny...and she misss that. Now he is feeling crushing guilt toward her. She feels he was sooo mean to her when she was going through a tough time...so why should she care or feel bad for him. She really does have every right to feel this way. I am just wondering if steroids deplete seratonin (sp?)....or what is going on.. It's not good whatever it is.

I am wondering if anyone has gone through this, and come thru it. And what is it?? Another thing, this guy has A.D.D...he's all over the damn place. And doesn't want to take medication for it...I told him, it would change his entire life if he did...in a great way. Thanks to anyone that responds. Sorrry for the long post. I was trying to give some background. Maybe it's a contributing factor or something.
 
I'm fairly experienced when it comes to steroids. More the. Likely he was using testosterone. When your testosterone levels are high you feel great. Mood is positive and you get cocky because you think you look damn good. Him stopping them without doing pct made his testosterone levels tank and his estrogen levels up. And for a male with high estrogen levels his mood will change like your ex is experiencing for the worse.

Pct stands for post cycle therapy. You use certain supplements to kick start your natural testosterone, because when you are injecting synthetic test your body stops producing it because it has no need to with all the synthetic doing that job. If you have any other questions feel free to ask like I said I'm fairly experienced
 
Kinda been there..... He's basically come off after a lifetime on exogenous testosterone... There is a likely-hood his natural testosterone hasn't returned to normal, which may or may not kickstart back into normal production.... But as he is older, his test levels may be much less than when he was younger now anyway.. And certainly won't be the same as when he was on gear.... He's depressed, and rightly so, he's lived his life with the hormonal levels far exceeding that of any young man, now he's an old man with the hormonal levels of an old man....
Testosterone can be a very powerful drug.. Now its gone, he'll feel depressed, weak, small, lacking in energy, sex drive and very old...
Best course of action, get back on, even a TRT dose of 125mg/week will make a huge difference.... It will make him feel 21 again..!!
 
yep ive seen long term steroid users basically lose their humanity after coming off juice...they change into a lethargic, depressed person..for these people, TRT is most definitely needed to live functional life..
 
William Thomas "Bill" Romanowski talks about this in depth in his book( Romo My Life on the Edge: Living Dreams and Slaying Dragons). The man went through depression, rage ( after he was off the juice) and a list of other psychological ailments after long term use. Oddly enough the cases that have been reported seem to happen to older men that are type A personalities that are now not working, and their bodies just can not do what they have spent life times doing. It is a shame that TRT is not readily available to some. On a personnel note, I watched my father go through this when he had beat the cancer, but found himself retired, and with a list a mile long of what his Dr's wanted him not to do. Now this was a guy that spent 25years in the Army and then worked construction when he went into the civilian world. Long story short I got him on a rather well managed TRT regimen before his DR agreed, turned the man around, I had my Father back and my mom had the husband she knew, not the depressed, snappy, tired all the time guy he became. I am a huge advocate of the responsible use of hormones for a whole slew of legitimate medical situations. . .
 
Genetic Freak, you about surmized everything. He was larger than life when we were married. Of course cocky, he did look hot. He wasn't huge, but had great abs, and that beautiful cut, that we woman love, near your hips..I don't even know what that's called.

Anyway, he has spoke of feeling very old. What you says makes sense, since he was 18 he had more than he should've, and now he has less than he should. Is TRT like human growth hormone? It doesn't sound like it, but he's very knowledgable about all of this stuff. People came to our apt for their shots and his advice....I asked him, when we were alone, "what's wrong?" I was asking in a tone like seriously, what is really going on.

He said, all the years of steroids, and coke....I want to add he loved coke and did alot of it up to about five or six yrs ago. Thanks for responding guys. He really does have a thousand mile stare.
 
S8fromPA-what did he say about the years of coke and steroids, they did what to him?
 
Stargazer said:
Genetic Freak, you about surmized everything. He was larger than life when we were married. Of course cocky, he did look hot. He wasn't huge, but had great abs, and that beautiful cut, that we woman love, near your hips..I don't even know what that's called.

Anyway, he has spoke of feeling very old. What you says makes sense, since he was 18 he had more than he should've, and now he has less than he should. Is TRT like human growth hormone? It doesn't sound like it, but he's very knowledgable about all of this stuff. People came to our apt for their shots and his advice....I asked him, when we were alone, "what's wrong?" I was asking in a tone like seriously, what is really going on.

He said, all the years of steroids, and coke....I want to add he loved coke and did alot of it up to about five or six yrs ago. Thanks for responding guys. He really does have a thousand mile stare.
Click to expand...

Been exactly where he was, 3 years ago.. Nothing like experience..Lol

TRT is Testosterone Replacement Therapy... As a male gets older hormone levels begin to decline (especially Testosterone), this can and will show effects I've previously mentioned, mood swings, tiredness, libido issues, depression etc...
Its now a very common recognised medical condition and can be confirmed by simple blood test for Testosterone, LH, FSH... Treatment should be testosterone injections.. Low dose to replicate normal healthy levels... (maybe a little higher lol)...

With your Ex things have been compounded because he's not had the chance to experience levels declining over several decades... He's gone from a strong muscular (young feeling) man in a young mans body with confidence, and commanding respect.. To an old man in a few months...
Basically its like he's been taken forward in time from being 21 for ever.. And dumped into the body and mind of a small, weak, old man... How would you feel..????

TRT would be my suggestion, slightly higher dose than normal to re-gain some that old muscle that made him who he once was.....!!!
 
It is a heavy trip,overnight your no longer who you were physically, and if that defined you mentally the hit is double. With out a doubt TRT would be a great suggestion, not only will it help physically but mentally as well. But like I said a few posts ago Romanowski goes into detail the sudden cessation of steroids had on him in his book. But GF nailed the description pretty spot on. I have seen, and have helped some of my close friends go through some thing similar, after coming state side banged up and no longer "who" they were mentally or physically, you are looking at basically a PTSD issue in a weird sort of way.
 
Guys, I changed my username, It's still "SBfromPA", when I joined the site, I was in a hurry to have a question answered, and couldn't think of a username for the life of me...ok, just wanted to put that out there lol.

Belfort, he said all the years of steroids and coke messed him up emotionally...it's the aftermath of no longer having the energy from doing some blow, and having testerone in his system...

Geneticfreak, I'd be fucked up if I went from 21 to older in a month. I am sympathethic, and empathetic to what he's going through. Yeah, I'm so enjoying getting older...what fun it is lol. I was told constantly I looked like Shania Twain...so I get having to face losing things that defined you. It's very difficult. Like I said, I never thought I'd ever feel bad for him...but I have told him to let himself off the hook w me and our daughter. His GF, that he has a three yr old with and an infant, wants to leave him because "she can't deal w it anymore"...real nice...glad to know she's in it for the long haul. My daughter said "She's a Cword" for wanting to leave her dad...he's just a mess. When we split, he had a girlfriend, and was living w her in three weeks. I was devestated. To see him actually care is a new thing guys. He's never felt bad about anything...and he's caused alot of mass destruction in alot of lives..

In a way, when I was talking to him after my dad died, and I had lost my mother eighteen mos earlier, so no more parents....anyway, when he was apologizing to me , and telling me how bad he fucked up by fucking it up w me...I felt like "well, it's about time...welcome to my life. I felt that way ten yrs ago"...but, when I actually saw him and was around him for a few hours, I saw how something was cognitively wrong.

Being that he is knowledgable about all of this stuff, I don't understand why he's not doing what your saying...the TRT, 125mg a week. I actually am going to call him in a little while and gently mention this. I'm going to say I was talking to "a friend" about steroids, etc.

Neoprimitive, yes...that is one hell of a heavy trip. And his body did DEFINE him He's really really sensitive about his height. I'm 5'5, and he's probably my height. Back when he was "cocky Todd" he beat the shit out of an ex-cop, because he called him a little asshole. This was about five yrs. ago...of course, we all know, you don't hit a cop, ex or retired. I am very careful not to use that word (little)...I call him a big asshole, and he barely even cares...he just continues to eat his plain oatmeal.

Everything you guys are saying is on target...he is by no means small right now...but he "thinks" he is. He also thinks he's bald, and he's not. As long as I've known him, he's had a fear of being bald,and believed he was. He isn't bald either. I understand how depression clouds your judgement, trust me. I ran into him randomly when I was at CVS...and this was when his first son was still an infant. I congratulated him...he didn't have the thousand mile stare yet...he was still competing, this was about three yrs ago, and he said "you know what, it's really exhausting"...I said, "Yep...no buffer anymore"...and he smiled and said "YES!!" When we were together, he dealt coke....I did not know that when we got together. He hid it from me...by the time I found out, I was already in love w him. So, slowly but surely, I started doing coke too. Every Saturday, he got a massive amount of coke...he'd dump it on my vanity, and I'd take a vial full of uncut shit. I always had about a thousand dollars of coke on me. That was my personal supply...I did bumps. I'd put my pinky nails in my vial, and a little in each nostril for a shot of energy, like Mia in Pulp Fiction...but coke wasn't my drug of choice. I could say "I had enough"...he couldn't. He'd put a huge pile on a plate, and just put the straw in ...he turned a pale white color. It was freaky.

I understand, that what has happened is like getting kicked in the stomach and face at the same time. Plus, not doing coke...he had it bad for coke. I knew he had ADD from it. He get's really focused when he's on coke, and can actually have a conversation and stay on topic. I know he misses partying, and feeling like "the man"....Thankyou all so much for your input. And Neoprimitive, I think he ought to read that book. Maybe, I will do a good deed, and get it for him. It's definately like PTSD. I imagine it's like being ripped out the shower wet and naked, and thrown outside in the freezing cold. I feel for him, I do...but I have long ago, felt everything he's feeling. When we got divorced...I swear it nearly killed me. I'm over it...but it took a long long time. I really don't think two wrongs make a right, so I want to help him... Shit, I think it's unfair that men have something that can make them feel 21 again. Women don't have anything like that. We just have to deal w it. Unfair. Thankyou guys<3
 
I wanted to add, you guys are awesome...in other sections of the forum, I feel like I'm on eggshells...I'm nervous to post all of the time. Thanks for being receptive and honest....I really do appreciate it.
 
I think it would be great for him to come talk w you guys. I will tell him about bluelight, and the awesome guys in "The Steroid Discussion". It would do him good to talk to all of you...there's nothing like talking to others that understand exactly what you're going through.

Again, thankyou so much. :)
 
One of the proteins most out of whack after long term steroid use is prolactin. Elevated prolactin makes it very hard for men to recover from steroid use, because it deadens our recovery system, which then reduces the natural output of testosterone. It also makes men feel very 'girly' - for want of a better word. Kind of emotional, depressed and unmanly. Furthermore, prolactin suppresses dopamine (and vice-versa). Dopamine is our most important feel-good 'reward' hormone; it motivates, it feeds the sex drive, it makes you get out of your chair and do things.

Now you also say he used cocaine a lot. Unfortunately Cocaine, after long-term or habitual use, also has a known tendecy to suppress dopamine, sometimes permanently. So I think what you may be looking at with your ex-husband is a combination of these two powerful systems exaggerating each other and hitting the motivation/reward/masculinity systems at the same time, totally transforming his personality.

So in his case, it's a bit like he's taken both legs out from under him at the same moment and collapsed. I would recommend solving at least the testosterone problem for now (with replacement therapy, as suggested) and seeing if that doesn't at least help get one leg back up.
 
I'm bored, so here's a bit more on Prolactin (PRL):

Hypersecretion of Prolactin causes erectile dysfunction (impotence), infertility, inhibition of GnRH..

In the absence of target gland hormones to provide feedback control over the lactotrophs, PRL regulates its own release by acting on the hypothalamic dopaminergic systems. This type of interaction, termed “short loop feedback,” is mostly responsible for the maintenance of PRL homeostasis....

Dopamine as a prolactin (PRL) inhibitor.
Ben-Jonathan N, Hnasko R.
Author information
Abstract
Dopamine is a small and relatively simple molecule that fulfills diverse functions. Within the brain, it acts as a classical neurotransmitter whose attenuation or overactivity can result in disorders such as Parkinson's disease and schizophrenia. Major advances in the cloning and characterization of biosynthetic enzymes, transporters, and receptors have increased our knowledge regarding the metabolism, release, reuptake, and mechanism of action of dopamine. Dopamine reaches the pituitary via hypophysial portal blood from several hypothalamic nerve tracts that are regulated by PRL itself, estrogens, and several neuropeptides and neurotransmitters. Dopamine binds to type-2 dopamine receptors that are functionally linked to membrane channels and G proteins and suppresses the high intrinsic secretory activity of the pituitary lactotrophs. In addition to inhibiting PRL release by controlling calcium fluxes, dopamine activates several interacting intracellular signaling pathways and suppresses PRL gene expression and lactotroph proliferation. Thus, PRL homeostasis should be viewed in the context of a fine balance between the action of dopamine as an inhibitor and the many hypothalamic, systemic, and local factors acting as stimulators, none of which has yet emerged as a primary PRL releasing factor. The generation of transgenic animals with overexpressed or mutated genes expanded our understanding of dopamine-PRL interactions and the physiological consequences of their perturbations. PRL release in humans, which differs in many respects from that in laboratory animals, is affected by several drugs used in clinical practice. Hyperprolactinemia is a major neuroendocrine-related cause of reproductive disturbances in both men and women. The treatment of hyperprolactinemia has greatly benefited from the generation of progressively more effective and selective dopaminergic drugs.

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/edrv.22.6.0451 (Full Version, well worth a read Neo)..!!
 
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