Positive The Tapering Support Thread v 2.0

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I have been trying to get out heroin since last year, my plan was to be done by the start of 2024 but just fkn mad that I keep putting it off. I did go over day without using but then went to get on the next day. I have a pt a day habit and I also have Norspan patch which is 5micrograms that is a slow release over a week. I seen to be able to get to around 22hrs and then I go and score. So Tomo I'm going too stop w wasting my life & time on this stuff. Its so much better when u don't need anything to sleep or to function. I'm hoping it's not going to be too bad. Well keep updating my progress with this attempt.

Good luck.
I get 15mg bupe patches that I'm saving up to use after I quit opium. There isn't any point in using patches while on full agonists like H or opium, so I'm either on bupe or on opium, rarely both, but I have a plan.
I plan to stop opium, then wait. It's a couple of days before it hits, slower than H, but others have said H wds are almost easier, over quicker. If you can survive the 48-72 hours then you'll be good to put on bupe patches and trust me on this, even a little 5mg bupe patch feels like heaven in the worst of the wds (after it's been on half an hour), but I'd suggest you stop using the patches first and save up a few, if I was suggesting anything, but I'm no doctor, just another junkie so don't follow me, lol.

 

[Squeaky]

Really not a fan of soldering iron treatment or kratom because that flat feeling when you're opiates don't work, nah, I'll get off this very soon, but if I start kratom then I'm back at square one with a more expensive substance to buy than I'm on now.

I get it online in bulk. Costs me about $0.50 per day.

 

[Squeaky]

In many ways tapering opiates is almost the same as staying at the same dose of opiates, it feels like deprivation either way. I want to go down and then up in my doses, then I get to feel something. I don't manage to do it. Most days I just take my self imposed maximum and some days I take more.
Is it tapering if you go CT then use a bit for relief, or is that just failure?

Tapering means lowering your dosage over time to lessen withdrawals. If the end result is that you’re taking less on average day over day, then it’s working. But if you’re just saving 2 days worth of drugs to get a great high every other day, then it’s not exactly tapering.

If you go CT and you reach a point where you’re ready to give up, then take only enough to get a break from wd’s, then that’s a good idea. But most of us will make a promise to ourselves that we’re going to muscle through the wd’s, then say ‘just a little so I can sleep’. Then it quickly becomes ’Well…. If I’m going to sleep at all, I should take a little more, right?”. Next thing you know it’s been 5 days of non-stop use and you have started all over.

If you’re going CT, you need a plan and a good friend. You need a week of laying in bed and someone you can trust to keep your pills. Opiate wd’s are no joke and most people will quit around day 2 or 3. And it really helps to have something strong for sleep like Valium.

 

[Eryximachus]

I remember when a combo at McDonald’s was $4. Tacos at Taco Bell were $0.67. Gas was $0.95. My healthcare at work was free. And I had $$ in the bank.

Now I pay $500/month for less healthcare at work. Gas is $6/gallon. Tacos are $2 each. And a combo at McD’s is $10-$15.

And I walked to school, 10 mikes, n the snow, uphill both ways.

Fuck me too. I feel old as fuck.

Cigarettes were $1.50-$2.50 per pack. A slice of pizza was $1 at a nice place. You could get 2 hot dogs and papaya juice for $2. Subway rides were $1.50. Beers were $2.50

Shit, I remember when combo meals at McDonald's were $2.99.

Sobriety sucks lol

 

[Squeaky]

Fuck me too. I feel old as fuck.

Cigarettes were $1.50-$2.50 per pack. A slice of pizza was $1 at a nice place. You could get 2 hot dogs and papaya juice for $2. Subway rides were $1.50. Beers were $2.50

Shit, I remember when combo meals at McDonald's were $2.99.

Sobriety sucks lol

Remember gasoline being less than $1 per gallon too?

Yep….. old as hell and missing my pills. Life is was better when I didn’t know what it meant to feel that good and then feel this crappy after. It’s like getting a handjob at 13 and then being forced into a monastery for the rest of my life.

 

[papercuts]

I get it online in bulk. Costs me about $0.50 per day.

Yeah, the government thought to have fun with kratom as well, it's illegal to buy which makes it expensive here

 

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Tapering means lowering your dosage over time to lessen withdrawals. If the end result is that you’re taking less on average day over day, then it’s working. But if you’re just saving 2 days worth of drugs to get a great high every other day, then it’s not exactly tapering.

If you go CT and you reach a point where you’re ready to give up, then take only enough to get a break from wd’s, then that’s a good idea. But most of us will make a promise to ourselves that we’re going to muscle through the wd’s, then say ‘just a little so I can sleep’. Then it quickly becomes ’Well…. If I’m going to sleep at all, I should take a little more, right?”. Next thing you know it’s been 5 days of non-stop use and you have started all over.

If you’re going CT, you need a plan and a good friend. You need a week of laying in bed and someone you can trust to keep your pills. Opiate wd’s are no joke and most people will quit around day 2 or 3. And it really helps to have something strong for sleep like Valium.

I'm not tapering at all. I tried a few times since Christmas to have less in a day and fucking hell I really don't want to drop down. I think I need to just pick a day. I had picked today but genuine reasons why I can't. Maybe Wednesday of next week onwards will be quiet if I get my tax return done first,

 

[papercuts]

How many days later can I use bupe?
Opinions please, I'm thinking by day 2 or 3 but coming off pods it might take longer.
I had a bit of pwd once, never again I hope.

 

[Squeaky]

How many days later can I use bupe?
Opinions please, I'm thinking by day 2 or 3 but coming off pods it might take longer.
I had a bit of pwd once, never again I hope.

From what I have read, if you go onto bupe too soon it might throw you into full withdrawals. Something like 4 days off oxy before you can start bupe. But the pods have a longer half-life.

And switching back and forth is apparently a gigantic mistake. Bupe blocks other opiates, so you would end up in perpetual withdrawals.

Don’t do it unless you’re ready to commit to bupe for good.

 

[ElBarone]

I’m not really sure how this thread works if you are looking for a bit of support so apologies if i’m raining on someone else’s parade by simply posting…looks like the right place though

So i started a DHC taper 7 days ago, been using for years and most recently averaging 930mg a day (for anyone who doesn’t know DHC is similar to codeine but, in my opinion anyway, 2-3 times stronger) - my problem has been i used it super sporadically, 1000mg one day, 700 the next etc etc, so a bit messy-

i dropped to 720mg at the same intervals - so around 20% drop - and i’ve really felt it, usual story, RLS, extreme lethargy, listless tired and zero motivation- not like CT obviously, i’m up and about, but pretty miserable- my main point is i’m surprised i’m still feeling this after so long, on day 8 now and would have hoped i would have stabilised by this point..esp as its a taper and a relatively small drop considering- i was only on 930mg for about a month, before that averaging around 800mg for 3 months (i work it out by the amount i’ve ordered!)

anyway any tips and insights would be gratefully received

 

[papercuts]

From what I have read, if you go onto bupe too soon it might throw you into full withdrawals. Something like 4 days off oxy before you can start bupe. But the pods have a longer half-life.

And switching back and forth is apparently a gigantic mistake. Bupe blocks other opiates, so you would end up in perpetual withdrawals.

Don’t do it unless you’re ready to commit to bupe for good.

Squeaky, if I could commit to bupe for good, I'd have done it already. I get bored, now I'm bored of being dependant on something that makes me ill, so I want bupe. Soon after that I'll be bored of flatlining on bupe and I'll want to feel good again.
However I just took delivery of the king of vapes, Storz & Bickel Mighty+, and the essential supercharger direct from Germany because it's expensive to get anything out of GB since Brexit, they really shot themselves with that stupid idea. I was quoted an extra £30 by an English seller to cover their stupid brexit costs. They have really cut themselves off from the neighbouring countries, we used to have lots of British food too, it's all gone now.
Hi ElBarone, good place to start, gabapentin cheers me up and weed helps too, but a week later you're still going to feel shit after a long acting opioid reduction. Give it another week. If I try to go quick I fail, if I go too slow it doesn't happen.
Squeaky is the success story and I expect he'll be along to tell you how, a litre of spirits a day now but no opiates, that right Squeaky?

 

[ElBarone]

that’s really kind and thanks for such a quick response- i look forward to hearing Squeaky’s thoughts

To flesh out a little i’ve been using daily for at least 5 years now and floating around 600-1000mg for at least 3, so pretty long term use..as i said i can calculate my recent use quite easily so the 930mg since Dec 5th is bang on accurate….

There was a time i could start a taper by dropping a fair bit, maybe down to 360mg even, and not really feel it, and start from there, but that was years ago and now it feels like
even the smallest drop to kick off with has its effect

i have loads of pregabalin to hand but don’t want to use it yet as it gives me a terrible rebound, so
saving it for later drops!

Thanks again

 

[ElBarone]

One taper question is this; is it ok to tinker with your daily dose SCHEDULE during a taper, as long as you stick to the plan re dose levels. So for example i am currently dosing 720mg/24 hrs DHC split into certain amounts at certain times. i would like to tweak these a bit, move the times etc, take a little more at one point and less another (Still 720mg total in the same 24hr period), I’m feeling my way a bit with this so bound to be tweaks! .is that going to be detrimental to the plan, or extend the time to getting stable (i dropped 8 days ago and still feeling it)?

i am presuming not, as surely everything revolves around the total amount?

sorry very long-winded way of asking a question, i hope someone can offer some advice

 

[papercuts]

One taper question is this; is it ok to tinker with your daily dose SCHEDULE during a taper, as long as you stick to the plan re dose levels. So for example i am currently dosing 720mg/24 hrs DHC split into certain amounts at certain times. i would like to tweak these a bit, move the times etc, take a little more at one point and less another (Still 720mg total in the same 24hr period), I’m feeling my way a bit with this so bound to be tweaks! .is that going to be detrimental to the plan, or extend the time to getting stable (i dropped 8 days ago and still feeling it)?

i am presuming not, as surely everything revolves around the total amount?

sorry very long-winded way of asking a question, i hope someone can offer some advice

If DHC is a slow acting opioid like codeine then it won't matter all that much when you take it, the total in 24 hours would be the important bit.
I've recently reduced from 24g poppy pods to 20g in a day and while I notice (and yesterday I cheated and had 36g), as pods are a long slow opiate I can take all of it first thing in the morning and still be ok the next morning, maybe a bit runny on the eyes and nose and thinking of nothing else, but still ok and not ill.
My best estimate of what is in them is between 1-3% morphine and a smaller amount of codeine. I don't want to take massive amounts when I don't know if they're covered in pesticides and whatever else.
My plan is to keep at 20g a day as much as possible for January, then February I'll try 16g a day.
The reason is simply to keep it under control. When a stressful thing happens it'll go up so I can cope then times like now when it's calm I can reduce it back down.
There must be a flaw in that somewhere? I don't know, just it's ok for now.

 

[Jen X]

How many days later can I use bupe?
Opinions please, I'm thinking by day 2 or 3 but coming off pods it might take longer.
I had a bit of pwd once, never again I hope.

You can take bupe at a small dose 0.5 and you won't go into withdrawal. Back when i micro dosed from fentanyl and methadone that's the dose the doctor started me at and i felt fine

 

[ElBarone]

If DHC is a slow acting opioid like codeine then it won't matter all that much when you take it, the total in 24 hours would be the important bit.
I've recently reduced from 24g poppy pods to 20g in a day and while I notice (and yesterday I cheated and had 36g), as pods are a long slow opiate I can take all of it first thing in the morning and still be ok the next morning, maybe a bit runny on the eyes and nose and thinking of nothing else, but still ok and not ill.
My best estimate of what is in them is between 1-3% morphine and a smaller amount of codeine. I don't want to take massive amounts when I don't know if they're covered in pesticides and whatever else.
My plan is to keep at 20g a day as much as possible for January, then February I'll try 16g a day.
The reason is simply to keep it under control. When a stressful thing happens it'll go up so I can cope then times like now when it's calm I can reduce it back down.
There must be a flaw in that somewhere? I don't know, just it's ok for now.

Thanks..one thing however, my understanding is DHC and codeine are short acting, same as fast acting (i.e not slow!) …i may be wrong !

 

[papercuts]

Thanks..one thing however, my understanding is DHC and codeine are short acting, same as fast acting (i.e not slow!) …i may be wrong !

That would make it different then and I don't know much about it. If I take codeine it takes hours to do anything at all, I thought that meant it hangs around longer in the body.
Grapefruit juice or weed will act on the CYP450 pathway of clearing waste to slow it right down, allowing those opioids to hang around longer if you want to tweak that.

 

[Psychlone Jack]

Anyone on bupe have experience with the (teva, I believe?) orange 8mg bupe, 153/ crescent moon imprint?

I'm about to dip under 4mg for my taper, and I'm about to run out of the sun 160's. The ones I'm on now aren't supposed to be very good, but they're miles better than the A8 strips I switched from a few months ago. I just don't want any nasty surprises with regards to efficacy right when I need it the most.

 

[Squeaky]

(Meant for Papercuts. But I guess I didn’t Reply correctly)

Yes. But I got a new psychiatrist. I got prescribed two new drugs for anxiety and ADHD. Worked awesome for a week, then made me feel like my face was on fire and my eyes were going to shoot out of my head. It took a week after I quit the meds for everything to return to normal.

I’m currently trying to taper the spirits. It’s a hard road.

 

[Squeaky]

Tapering notes:

First and foremost, you need to sleep. Plan whatever you’re doing so that you can get at least 4 hours of solid sleep every night.

Second, if you feel great at any point of the day then you’re probably doing it wrong. You got here by feeling high. Then it just made you feel normal. Now you’re going to need to feel a bit low basically all of the time. How much you feel ‘low’ is determined by how fast you taper. CT means feeling absolutely horrible for a week or two. Dropping by 5% per week means feeling lethargic and irritable every day for months.

As for percentages:
Let’s say you decide to cut by 10% per week. If you are at 1000mg per day, then next week you move to 900 mg per day. Then you recalculate.

Now you’re at 900mg per day. 10% is 90 mg, so you drop to 810 mg per day, then you recalculate.

The next week you start with 810mg per day. 10% is 81mg, so you drop to 721mg per day (it doesn’t need to be exact).

You just keep going until you’re ready to jump off. But if you keep cutting by 100mg per day, on week 8 you’ll go from 200mg to 100mg and that’s HALF. Hug mistake. Tapering correctly takes fucking FOREVER!!!

NEXT PROBLEM:
When do you enjoy your drugs? At work? With dinner? On Friday nights? You need new habits. It’s best to write yourself a hand written schedule on paper with a pencil. DONT DEVIATE FOR ANY REASON!!! Family, work, weather, doesn’t matter. I don’t care if there’s a funeral. If you feel like shit and the drugs are the only thing that will make you OK to do it…. tell everyone your friend got COVID and start coughing. Stay home. One slip-up and your brain will tell you that it’s OK to cheat in an emergency. Then it will tell you to cheat when you want to relax. Then it will tell you to cheat because work was extra stressful. Then you’re just cheating ALL OF THE TIME. This is why in-patient rehab works. They don’t let patients have any contact with the outside world.

Next one:
Get your excuses ready in advance. Nobody wants to say “I can’t make it to work because I’m in withdrawal”, right?
I hurt my back. I have a new Dr and he put me on a new medication for high blood pressure and it’s making me dizzy. My neighbor is a meth addict and he kept me up all night working on his truck. Doesn’t matter. (Food poisoning is fantastic occasionally but you need to point to a specific food from about 12 hours ago)

When you’re scared of what to say when that moment comes…. when you are faced with the choice of taking more of the drugs you’re trying to taper off from… versus disappointing those people in your life who are important to you (boss, mom, child, etc)…. You will usually chose the drugs because you are afraid to expose yourself as a loser and you will be scared of what they will think. GOOD EXCUSES ARE IMPORTANT!!!. Plan ahead for Armageddon.

Last:
Addicts (And I mean any person who has become physically addicted to the drug, but also has become reliant on that drug sustaining their life), can’t taper well. There’s always a reason to deviate from the plan. EVERYONE IS ADDICTED TO SOMETHING. You’re just addicted to something that is either illegal or socially unacceptable. Caffeine is a drug. Starbucks is a drug dealer. Caffeine withdrawals last for months. It’s important to realize that you’re not a “junkie”. Stick with the plan at all costs.

————-

There’s usually someone close to you that will be willing to help. Ask for help. Even if they can only offer emotional support. Doing it on your own is sooooo lonely that you’ll probably fail, over and over for years. That’s what happened to me.