The seemingly impossible truth about mega-Vit C & opiate wd

[Muzda Jonxx]

Hi all,

I thought I'd put up a quick post reporting my experience with using mega doses of vitamin C (sodium ascorbate), loperamide & LSD whilst withdrawing from what I consider a medium poppy tea addiction.

A brief bit of history about little ol' me.. About 8 years ago, I discovered the wonder that is oxy. Once I got a medium habit going (80mg / day), I was found out by my wife and family, and flung into therapy. There, they prescribed me a brutal dose of subutex (12mg/day), way way over the top for what was then not the worst addiction in the world.

After 2 years on the subs, I had whittled my way down to 400ug. At that point I jumped off, only to discover the special hell that is subutex WD. To get around this, I then discovered the opiate love of my life, poppy pods.

Fast forward 8 years, and I have withdrawn from subutex 2 more times, and withdrawn from the pods more times than I can count. Each wd varies in intensity and duration, but they all had me flat on my back, sweating like a pig, water out the rear end for weeks at a time .. I could go on but you get the picture.

So, last year, I withdrew from subutex, and 2 months later fell straight into pod addiction once again. The reason being, the subutex wd left me so smashed up, it was simply impossible to lead a normal life. I have a relatively high functioning job that I was right on the verge of losing.

Addicted as I was, I did at least this time keep the poppy tea addiction medium. I was getting through 400-800g of strong seed tea on a daily basis, and that was enough to get a quick melt in the morning, and hold me throughout the day.

Well - last week I decided enough was enough, and jumped off yet again. This time, however, I discovered the following method for withdrawal, that involves megadosing with vitamin C to ward off withdrawal.

http://opiateaddictionsupport.com/how-to-use-vitamin-c-for-opiate-withdrawal/

The first day, I had the watery eyes, my belly was a mess, a few hot flushes and cold sweats. The vitamin C at the doses required really messed up my belly on top of this, meaning it was far from a comfortable day. However, I still had enough energy to get out and about to the shops, etc.

That night, there was no chance of any sleep. As the 36th hour approached, I decided to drop 200ug of 1P-LSD. Most folk would see this as insanity, but I fully endorse acid for opiate withdrawal. It doesn't take away the pain (which was very mild, but still uncomfortable enough so that sleep was an impossibility). However, I find acid a massive mood enhancer, it allows me to COPE with the pain much better. Almost as if I can float my mind off and observe it in the 3rd person. I dunno, I endorse it, but take acid in the midst of WD at your own risk. DMT is even better, BTW, but I had none of that this time around.

So - day 2 of pod withdrawal came around, no sleep being had, and a fuzzy head from the acid. I continued the vitamin C regime, with quite a bit of lope and tonic water to further add to the comfort factor. That day, I watched many movies, I went and picked my son up from school, I went shopping, cooked dinner. Don't get me wrong, the vit C does not entirely remove WD, but it really, REALLY helps. Any other day 2 into pod WD, I'd be a writhing mess of pain sweating on the bed, unable to do much else but contemplate death by any means to take it all away.

Day 2 ends, sleep time comes. I find that when lying in bed, all those aches and pains get amplified massively. So I barely got any sleep day 2 either.

Day 3 - Continue the vit C, cut down the lope by half (which I will admit was at crazy dose on day 2 - 80mg+). This should be the worst day of all, but I'm feeling pretty good. I get out into town for a meeting, help a poor girl who got knocked off her bike by a car. No real WD noticed other than the odd slight sweat or ache. I eat good, enjoy telly, cut the lawn. Basically, a normal day, which is to me previously unheard of on a pod WD.

Day 3 ends, sleep time comes again. I fall asleep really quick, get 7 hours good sleep. Had a nice cup of valerian tea and 30mg mirtazapine to aid this.

Day 4 begins - I'm feeling fine. Don't feel the need for lope, although I dose 12mg just to make sure to be comfy. Continuing the vit C. We've now caught up to the present moment, where I'm writing this right now.

So, there you go. For me at least, this vit C thing really has worked absolute wonders. People might call PLACEBO!! SHILL!! Or whatever else. But, I work in education, not vit C sales. Plus, selling 500g sodium ascorbate to a rattling junky isn't the best way to put sales through the roof, compared to selling to the sporting bods amongst us who are obsessed with vitamins and health and whatnot. And as for placebo? I fully believe mindset is massively important to opiate WD, but I have never in the past got away with an addiction this easy. As mentioned above, I was taking 400-800g good seed tea a day, for over 7 months. Mother O should by all rights have kicked my candy ass.

Make of this what you will, I thought I'd put this here in the dark side, because that's where I came reading up about impending WD this time last week (why oh why do we feel the need to read horror stories before going through this shit)?? If one person gives it a shot and gets through a mild WD, it was a story worth writing.

Final note - This DID NOT remove withdrawal, just made it infinitely more bearable. Vit C, lope and acid FTW!!

 

[Ligaturd]

This makes more sense if you acknowledge the effect of taking large doses of loperamide, which can completely remove withdrawal effects if tolerance is within reasonable limits. I came off of a decently large methadone tolerance using loperamide over the course of 2 weeks with only moderate discomfort.

I'm curious as to the logic behind the mega dosing of vitamin C because I have never encountered any data suggesting it would do much, if anything to counter opioid withdrawals. I am open to receiving new information and reformulation my world views, nothing is set in stone.

 

[Muzda Jonxx]

This makes more sense if you acknowledge the effect of taking large doses of loperamide, which can completely remove withdrawal effects if tolerance is within reasonable limits. I came off of a decently large methadone tolerance using loperamide over the course of 2 weeks with only moderate discomfort.

I'm curious as to the logic behind the mega dosing of vitamin C because I have never encountered any data suggesting it would do much, if anything to counter opioid withdrawals. I am open to receiving new information and reformulation my world views, nothing is set in stone.

I'd love to know exactly what's going on inside me too. Like I say, I'm very, VERY well versed with pod withdrawal, and IME there is just no way I should be feeling this good at day 4 clean of pods, due to many of the alkaloids loooooooooooong-ass halflife. If you read that report I linked, they vaguely waffle on about the possibility that vit c somehow interacts with part of the endorphin system, dulling it somehow to the effects of withdrawal. They claim that a junkie on a massive dose of vit C couldn't get high off a big bag of dope, the logic being that the vit C had already interacted with the system. I don't know about any of that, if that were the case then the lope wouldn't have done jack for me the past few days.

Lope wise though, I've only had the recommended max of 12mg today. I can feel the WD just round the edges, that slight frazzled burny feeling that you get when you're past the worst of WD, but still have a ways to go. What I do know is that usually I'd have been waiting until about day 14 to get to that point. The proof of this vit C pudding may be in the next couple of days, when ALL opiates are out of me. If the WD comes back in spades, I shall report it.

I would urge anybody who's on a mission to get clean to give it a shot, though. There's nothing to lose but 15 quid on a big bucket of sodium ascorbate..

Edit to add - If this is a cure-all to opiate addiction, I agree with what they say in the report I linked. The big pharma companies / doctors / clinics make so much cash off of getting aspiring ex-junkies onto bupe and meth, there's no chance they're going to spread this news far and wide. I read an article yesterday that said they're now bringing out an anti-depressant with bupe in as one of the actives. Shocking!

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

Thank you for posting this information. It's going to come in handy I have a feeling. I've worked in the supplements field for many years and have seen the lowly Vit C work wonders on many issues.

 

[Muzda Jonxx]

It's certainly helped me, I honestly can't quite believe it. For obvious reasons I was very sceptical. Id love for some other people to give it a shot and see whether they get the same positive results.

 

[neversickanymore]

I would like to hear experiences of people who left out the lope in this formula. Are you sure the vitamin C dose is doing much.

You sound like your progressing nicely.

Do you have a plan to taper the lope?

 

[Muzda Jonxx]

Yeah, I ran out this morning, so that's the end of that. That was first thing this morning, so I'll see what occurs tomorrow morning. I know - the vit C thing sounds unbelievable almost to the point of being comical. But hey, it's been known to do plenty of other incredible things in the field of cancer and whatnot.

It's also worth noting that dosing high loperamide on a pod wd is by no means new to me. In wds past, it would simply stop me having to spend hours gushing on the toilet. Did little for the lethargy, rls and whatnot. It's just been too easy a wd (not that I'm complaining). One persons experience is hardly definitive though, it'd be awesome if someone did some proper scientific research on this. Maybe that's my new calling..

 

[neversickanymore]

Please keep us updated and consider using this thread as a journel and workshop for your reserch. Later on you can also refine your work into a finished presentation thread that will help others and the overall cause we face.


I would also consider adding in fish oil straight away and a dopamine precursor as well.

Here is some good information around the next phase

PAWS LINKS
Why We Don’t Get Better Immediately: Post-acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS)
Post-acute-withdrawal syndrome Wiki

Exercise and Brain Neurotransmission
Neurobiology of Exercise
Aerobic Exercise
Exercise 4 Health, Mental Health, and Addiction vs. The Endorphin Factory
Exercise 4 Health, Mental Health, and Addiction vs. I worked all that out
exercise and sleep

Chemicals and supplements to recover from opiate addiction
Diet & Neurogenesis


it is a powerful thing to keep our thoughts positive and here are some threads many of us use to help us do this.
Good things about being off drugs/getting sober
Share Something Positive from Your Day vs. It's All Around You
Today I Am Thankful For... Ver. 4 Infinite Chances in an Amazing World
Daily Personal Affirmations Log Vs IM THE SHIT & NOT a piece a.. not playing me. NOPE
Managing depressive thinking

Here is the mindfulness thread.
Anhedonia MEGA Thread

So you seem have been fighting this mightily for a long time now, but seem to be getting swallowed over and over by the vicious cycle of addiction. Once you through the physical withdrawals and have beaten the physical dependence once again, whats your plan for addressing the addiction so you can exit the hellish cycle?

I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
~Thomas A. Edison


Your going to figure this out!!

 

[Muzda Jonxx]

Please keep us updated and consider using this thread as a journel and workshop for your reserch. Later on you can also refine your work into a finished presentation thread that will help others and the overall cause we face.


I would also consider adding in fish oil straight away and a dopamine precursor as well.

Here is some good information around the next phase

PAWS LINKS
Why We Don’t Get Better Immediately: Post-acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS)
Post-acute-withdrawal syndrome Wiki

Exercise and Brain Neurotransmission
Neurobiology of Exercise
Aerobic Exercise
Exercise 4 Health, Mental Health, and Addiction vs. The Endorphin Factory
Exercise 4 Health, Mental Health, and Addiction vs. I worked all that out
exercise and sleep

Chemicals and supplements to recover from opiate addiction
Diet & Neurogenesis


it is a powerful thing to keep our thoughts positive and here are some threads many of us use to help us do this.
Good things about being off drugs/getting sober
Share Something Positive from Your Day vs. It's All Around You
Today I Am Thankful For... Ver. 4 Infinite Chances in an Amazing World
Daily Personal Affirmations Log Vs IM THE SHIT & NOT a piece a.. not playing me. NOPE
Managing depressive thinking

Here is the mindfulness thread.
Anhedonia MEGA Thread

So you seem have been fighting this mightily for a long time now, but seem to be getting swallowed over and over by the vicious cycle of addiction. Once you through the physical withdrawals and have beaten the physical dependence once again, whats your plan for addressing the addiction so you can exit the hellish cycle?

I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
~Thomas A. Edison


Your going to figure this out!!

Ok, third time lucky. My phone's playing up and I've posted this reply twice already now. Aaaaaaanyway..

I've been wondering that exact same thing. Right now I'm dead chuffed to have made it through the worst of the physical part so easily, but really this is when the hard work starts. You're spot on, I've been on this on-off revolving door of opiates for way too many years now. So many kicks that I honestly couldn't count them all anymore. It's a real relief that this vit-C / lope combo helped so much with the physical symptoms, but it ain't going to do much for the addiction itself.

Over the years, I've done clinics, therapy, the works. Every single time, I stay clean for 3-6 months. The opium monster wrapped around my shoulders slumbers. But one day, it awakens, and gives me the poppy eyes. It's a bit like sleep walking awake, it really is. One part of your mind is screaming 'NO POPPIES YOU F*KING IDIOT' just as you're drinking the first cup of tea down. Hardcore poppy monster.

Another problem for me is that I purchase my opium over the counter at the local supermarket 5 minutes round the corner. I've learned over the years that you can play their computer systems. Most folk would only buy poppy seed once in a blue moon. I buy it cases at a time. Self checkout means that no questions are ever asked. And, most amusing of all, the computer systems log the fact that I'm buying so many poppy seeds, and automatically increase the next order so that there's MORE seeds there for me next week. It really is a slick drug delivery system.

But I digress.. The point is, if your opiates are shouting out to you from the supermarket shelves, it's f*king hard to ignore them. Luckily my local supermarket seems to have stopped stocking them suddenly (I wonder if it was me that used up the entire 2015/2016 UK reserve, ha!)

I'm rambling a bit, but it's a damn good point. I suppose I need to make some colossal shift in my life. As a wise man once told me, "if you don't change nothing, nothings gonna change". Wise words indeed. I don't yet know what that change is though. I got a loving family, great job, lovely friends. You'd have thought that'd be enough, hey?

Right now, I'm just pleased to be (seemingly) over the initial hump. There's going to be tough days ahead. I guess all any of us can really do is keep chipping away, fighting the good fight. Who knows - Maybe this time will be the time I quit this forever.

I really hope so.

 

[w0w0mg]

I honestly think it was not the vit C holding you, but the high dose of lope.
Lope half life lasts fairly long - some reports up to 2 to 3 days.
Please check in tomorrow and tell us how you're feeling.

 

[Muzda Jonxx]

Feeling fine and dandy at day 5 on no lope so far, thanks. Make no mistake, willpower still required, all the vit C in the world ain't going to completely paint over the cracks of coming off medicine this powerful. I've never had it so easy though. Go figure, I'm shocked that this should be the case too.

 

[Muzda Jonxx]

Ah, day 5.. CRAVINGS. I WANT MY POPPY JUICE. Grrrr.. Sodding cravings, bitch moan kick the f*king cat. And dog. Grrrrrr.

Stay away from opiates, kids. Drugs are bad, m'kay?

 

[w0w0mg]

It passes my friend. Just try and keep busy you're doing great!

 

[Muzda Jonxx]

Thanks much! Great to have somewhere to rant where people get this, I've been away from the forums for too long. I settled for a nice Sunday beer instead.

 

[Muzda Jonxx]

Gah, I've got the right hump today. No major physical wd to speak of, which is good. So the vitamin regime does seem to work well for that. It doesn't do a damn thing for the mental aspect though, so that's something to bear in mind if anyone else does decide to try this route. Be prepared and all that shizzle.

 

[herbavore]

I've used the "one minute/hour/day at a time" method for chronic pain and I think it is a good strategy for cravings. It can feel too overwhelming to withstand when your brain tries to trick you into thinking this will last forever. Sensations pass. Cravings do die down or can be distracted away. Maybe going through giving birth twice and learning how to breathe through excruciating pain gave me the training--who knows?--but it can be a life saver. Another good thing to try is just to say out loud to yourself "This is not my brain talking, this is addiction talking. I'm not listening."

 

[Muzda Jonxx]

Absolutely right Herbavore, pain is experienced but one moment at the time. That which has past is history, and the future hasn't happened yet.

Ignore me, I'm just stroppy because my dummy's been taken away. It could be (and in the past has been) infinitely worse. It's great to be here on this forum, I think it's an invaluable resource. Onwards and upwards!

 

[Muzda Jonxx]

Day 6 update - Back at work. I've rediscovered my absolute love of music, listening to the best of my collection is giving me gorgeous rushes. I love the hyper-sensitive aspect of WD at times.

Physically fine - No lope since Saturday now. Keeping up with the vit C as it no longer upsets my belly.

Have a lovely day all.

 

[cdin]

I completely concur with this thread. 10g sodium ascorbate morning/night was relieving 80% of my withdrawal symptoms last 6 days. not a huge habit, but a long one. definitely works,.

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

Thanks for sharing that.