The portion of population having issues with cannabis alone?

[Egzoset]

Salutations,

The more i visit around the more i see misery displayed on the whole wall.

Often enough titles read like "weed" makes you dumb, "pot" might kill you... Actually it often sounds like anti-cannabic advertizing imported from Harper's office while what i read elsewhere is that so-called "addiction" is said to be a problem for 9 % of the users, which this fails to account for variables like consumption method, social environment and the consequences of having to deal with street dealers, etc. whatever! In comparison alcohol, tobacco and prescription medecine all have a definite impact for real and yet those are "legal" substances that make us face the prospect of getting our lives affected big time! Still, authorities don't push legally medicated employees with PTSS to suicide unless it's "marijuana", para-military agents don't throw incapacitating grenades at babies unless it's a "drug" bust and neither are their home seized (if not their father killed!), just for unproven claims that there might be some evil amount of cannabis around...

8)

So my question is quite simple. What are the statistics with all other toxic parameters removed? Inluding nationalized bigotry pushing parents & family to cause much greater harm than cannabis itself, because of exclusion if not persecution, etc., etc... Etcetera!!

...

Or more precisely, where's the correlation between real life out there and our daily wall of misery right here??

Even better, where's the Harm Reduction element announced everywhere on the board?...

Because i don't see how that's supposed to help someone to cultivate negativism for a minority who should be adult enough not to touch cannabis anyway, while people who keep coming from nowhere tell others that they are basically wrong - which sucks since it sounds pretty much like disproportionate propaganda from destructive legacies à la Janey Canuck, e.g. including governement, police and family just to name a few. E.G. for the sake of anyone who makes a dime and/or benefits because of it basically, including desintoxication centers with enough money to advertize on local TV!!

My 2 cents.

Good day, have fun!!

 

[ParappaTheRapper]

Is your avatar an allusion to "dr strangeLove", homie?

 

[Greyhounder]

Who would you trust to collect statistics free from bias and 'toxic parameters' and where would you find the information?
The board suffers from being trolled a lot which gives it a very negative feel but also gets lots of posts from young people completing their journey into adulthood who confuse all the hormonal and emotional upsets, the social awkwardness, mood swings, anxiety states, etc as being drug induced rather than just a normal stage in life.
Clearly there is a hard core of people who believe that they experience severe withdrawal symptoms, I am not one of them and have never actually met anyone in person who said that they did despite having toked for 40 years. Obviously I don't want or need to disparage anyone else's experience but I too find myself puzzled by the sudden need for its own users to demonise it, in the past if you got fed up with smoking it you just stopped and got on with it but now it appears you need to suffer unremitting agony. I can't figure it.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

I think that the extreme view of cannabis is harmless whoever experiences problems with it it's their own damn fault and they would have experienced those problems regardless of their excessive smoking is just as ridiculous as fucking reefer madness. It annoys me how people place cannabis in this magical category separate from all other drugs and make ridiculous claims that it has NO side effects whatsoever. Yes, some people experience anxiety, depression and even psychosis, and they probably would not have experienced this so soon (or at all) if they didn't abuse weed. Many, many more use cannabis to justify their own ennui, and live in an unfulfilled haze because they're satisfied with doing nothing and smoking weed. Many use it recreationally, even daily, and have no problems with it. Like all drugs it's a spectrum, and just because weed is benign compared to heroin doesn't justify the widespread denial of its darker side that can come with abuse.

As far as finding statistics is concerned, don't you think a message board devoted solely to drugs is a pretty bad place to start? You're obviously going to get skewed perspectives here. Cannabis is prevalent enough that a study of people who only smoke weed and don't drink or do any other drugs should not be too difficult to instigate among the general population.

 

[Greyhounder]

I think that the extreme view of cannabis is harmless whoever experiences problems with it it's their own damn fault and they would have experienced those problems regardless of their excessive smoking is just as ridiculous as fucking reefer madness. It annoys me how people place cannabis in this magical category separate from all other drugs and make ridiculous claims that it has NO side effects whatsoever. Yes, some people experience anxiety, depression and even psychosis, and they probably would not have experienced this so soon (or at all) if they didn't abuse weed. Many, many more use cannabis to justify their own ennui, and live in an unfulfilled haze because they're satisfied with doing nothing and smoking weed. Many use it recreationally, even daily, and have no problems with it. Like all drugs it's a spectrum, and just because weed is benign compared to heroin doesn't justify the widespread denial of its darker side that can come with abuse.

As far as finding statistics is concerned, don't you think a message board devoted solely to drugs is a pretty bad place to start? You're obviously going to get skewed perspectives here. Cannabis is prevalent enough that a study of people who only smoke weed and don't drink or do any other drugs should not be too difficult to instigate among the general population.

Did you post this in the right thread? you seem to be referring to statements that nobody has made and then getting very angry about them.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations,

...your avatar...

I chose this to symbolize my learning curve towards discovering (and understanding) the manipulations, lies and abuse which prevaled since before i was even born. Not to mention the brain-washing which rendered some people more "toxic" than anything i could ever consume.

It annoys me...

Then it shall be my pleasure having to submit this article to your attention:

NORML: Federal District Court Judge To Hear Testimony Questioning Marijuana's Schedule 1 Status (2014-Ocy-23)

« Expert witnesses for the defense - including Drs. Carl Hart, Associate Professor of Psychology in the Department of Psychiatry and Psychology at Columbia University in New York City, retired physician Phillip Denny, and Greg Carter, Medical Director of St. Luke's Rehabilitation Institute in Spokane, Washington - will testify that the accepted science is inconsistent with the notion that cannabis meets these Schedule I criteria. »​

...now it appears you need to suffer unremitting agony.

Certainly not me as i've quit all smoking habits years ago, no thanks to any Canadian public servants, which is part of my point: the statistics are systematically stained with a blend of nicotine and cannabis for starters, plus health-hazard smoke from combustion...

Did you post this in the right thread?

M'yeah, i was thinking maybe there's a spot i failed to find or more sub-sections should be created. So my proposal is to make more cozy room for the afflicted masses:

Addiction, This Corridor to Hell
DIY Cross-Mixed Suicidal Recipes
Gore Tatoo Fashion & Related Trends (part 1)
Halloween Every Day of the Year (part 2)
Knives, Hand Guns & More Goodies (part 1)
Lets Play Russian Roulette Once (part 2)
Memories from Lost Criminal Souls
Nightmare Therapeutic Analysis
The Craving(s) of Desperate Junkies
The Infinite Wall of Stoner Misery
Walking Dead​

And more... In alphabetical order.

Good day, have fun!!

 

[Rio Fantastic]

Salutations,



I chose this to symbolize my learning curve towards discovering (and understanding) the manipulations, lies and abuse which prevaled since before i was even born. Not to mention the brain-washing which rendered some people more "toxic" than anything i could ever consume.



Then it shall be my pleasure having to submit this article to your attention:

NORML: Federal District Court Judge To Hear Testimony Questioning Marijuana's Schedule 1 Status (2014-Ocy-23)

« Expert witnesses for the defense - including Drs. Carl Hart, Associate Professor of Psychology in the Department of Psychiatry and Psychology at Columbia University in New York City, retired physician Phillip Denny, and Greg Carter, Medical Director of St. Luke's Rehabilitation Institute in Spokane, Washington - will testify that the accepted science is inconsistent with the notion that cannabis meets these Schedule I criteria. »​

Certainly not me as i've quit all smoking habits years ago, no thanks to any Canadian public servants, which is part of my point: the statistics are systematically stained with a blend of nicotine and cannabis for starters, plus health-hazard smoke from combustion...





M'yeah, i was thinking maybe there's a spot i failed to find or more sub-sections should be created. So my proposal is to make more cozy room for the afflicted masses:

Addiction, This Corridor to Hell
DIY Cross-Mixed Suicidal Recipes
Gore Tatoo Fashion & Related Trends (part 1)
Halloween Every Day of the Year (part 2)
Knives, Hand Guns & More Goodies (part 1)
Lets Play Russian Roulette Once (part 2)
Memories from Lost Criminal Souls
Nightmare Therapeutic Analysis
The Craving(s) of Desperate Junkies
The Infinite Wall of Stoner Misery
Walking Dead​

And more... In alphabetical order.

Good day, have fun!!

Did I say the legal status of cannabis annoyed me? Did I say anywhere that I think it should be Schedule 1? Did your link state that cannabis is definitively harmless? No. My post isn't countered by anything in that link of yours, and I don't know why you're parading it as a response as if my post and that expert witness testimony contain mutually exclusive information.

 

[Egzoset]

Hi again

Did I say...

Well here's what *I* got to say about "widespread denial", without using one more word, in the name of children (...):

 

[Mafioso]

I don't get what this thread is about. the question you posed in your original post sounds very biased and not to mention a little silly. You're going to have to find a better way to word that, or be more clear about what you are wanting to ask.

for as much bad propaganda there is for weed, there is just as much of the opposite- overly positive and drastically overlooking major side effects that come along with smoking weed.

believe it or not, there are a lot of people who change their mind about weed. people who used to smoke all the time and now think it's a waste of life as well as bad for you. Good and bad are opinions, but you would be very silly in my mind to say that there are no negative side effects. most people who use weed don't use it medicianlly and that includes most medicinal patients...

i know where i'm from weed isn't really all that illegal anyways.. and from what i heard things are not all that different in canada. I could be wrong of course..

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Mafioso,

You're going to have to find a better way to word that...

I've resorted to faces instead of anonymous words, still somehow that's never going to suffice. Because it's a war i guess...

 

[Greyhounder]

I don't get what this thread is about. the question you posed in your original post sounds very biased and not to mention a little silly. You're going to have to find a better way to word that, or be more clear about what you are wanting to ask.

for as much bad propaganda there is for weed, there is just as much of the opposite- overly positive and drastically overlooking major side effects that come along with smoking weed.

believe it or not, there are a lot of people who change their mind about weed. people who used to smoke all the time and now think it's a waste of life as well as bad for you. Good and bad are opinions, but you would be very silly in my mind to say that there are no negative side effects. most people who use weed don't use it medicianlly and that includes most medicinal patients...

i know where i'm from weed isn't really all that illegal anyways.. and from what i heard things are not all that different in canada. I could be wrong of course..

If you put words in peoples mouths you mustn't then start accusing them of being biased or looking silly. Nobody has been 'overly positive', nobody has looked over any side effects and nobody has denied that there are side effects.
I can't speak for Egzoset clearly but I am in here because I was interested in the phenomenon that was being described. I had already noticed in other posts that the recieved wisdom these days is that cannabis has 'major side effects', this surprised me and also confused me since I have rather a lot of experience with cannabis over 4 decades and with a large cohort of acquaintances most of whom, like me, will have given up at some point or other and often many times.
Now before everyone starts frothing at the mouth again and accusing me of being a cannabis withdrawal denier let me be extremely clear, I am not seeking to deny YOUR withdrawal symptoms or YOUR side effects but I am interested in understanding a bit more about the frequency and nature of them since they clearly do not happen to everyone or even nearly everyone.
Does any of this matter?
I think it matters, I think it matters because this is a harm reduction issue, I think we know what happens when we leave drugs education in the hands of the establishment? Or is leaving it in the hands of those with vested interests and little understanding a positive thing?
Harm reduction is about providing people with sufficient and sufficiently accurate information to allow them to make a choice based on understanding rather than guesswork and anacdote. I am going to assume that no one has a problem with that so far?
So how is this board faring in the harm reduction stakes? is it chock full of reliable, accurate opinion and report, would a casual reader be able to make an informed choice about trying cannabis?
I would suggest not, it doesnt even describe my experience (well it does now I guess) never mind most people's, and as such at the moment it is less than useful, in fact it is positively harmful.
Oh, hang on, I can see the froth forming again. Let me remind you what bad advice does, it kills people. If we are going to have this International board, read by young people the world over, then let us try and be helpful and put the information into perspective. That means no overly positive stuff, cannabis isn't going to make you attractive to the opposite sex or boost your IQ but no overly negative stuff either because a board filled with just negative stuff does not reflect the truth and the truth is all that is important. So if one in a hundred people develop a particular side effect than we need to know that so that we neither overvalue nor ignore it.
Just in case you still dont understand, cannabis is not 'safe' or without problems and I have never said that it is, but wishing to know just how unsafe it is or what the problems really are or how frequently they occur is not a bad thing in my opinion and I can't imagine why anybody would not want to do that unless they have a vested interest in denying the truth.
The truth? Jeez, that's what cannabis does to you, it turns you into an old hippy...

 

[421]

Well this thread is certainly harm reduction; a case in point of people going through cannabis withdrawal. High irritability, paranoid assumptions taken very personally... :D

 

[Mafioso]

Salutations Mafioso,



I've resorted to faces instead of anonymous words, still somehow that's never going to suffice. Because it's a war i guess...

exactly. wtf are you saying dr sesus

 

[Mafioso]

If you put words in peoples mouths you mustn't then start accusing them of being biased or looking silly. Nobody has been 'overly positive', nobody has looked over any side effects and nobody has denied that there are side effects.
I can't speak for Egzoset clearly but I am in here because I was interested in the phenomenon that was being described. I had already noticed in other posts that the recieved wisdom these days is that cannabis has 'major side effects', this surprised me and also confused me since I have rather a lot of experience with cannabis over 4 decades and with a large cohort of acquaintances most of whom, like me, will have given up at some point or other and often many times.
Now before everyone starts frothing at the mouth again and accusing me of being a cannabis withdrawal denier let me be extremely clear, I am not seeking to deny YOUR withdrawal symptoms or YOUR side effects but I am interested in understanding a bit more about the frequency and nature of them since they clearly do not happen to everyone or even nearly everyone.
Does any of this matter?
I think it matters, I think it matters because this is a harm reduction issue, I think we know what happens when we leave drugs education in the hands of the establishment? Or is leaving it in the hands of those with vested interests and little understanding a positive thing?
Harm reduction is about providing people with sufficient and sufficiently accurate information to allow them to make a choice based on understanding rather than guesswork and anacdote. I am going to assume that no one has a problem with that so far?
So how is this board faring in the harm reduction stakes? is it chock full of reliable, accurate opinion and report, would a casual reader be able to make an informed choice about trying cannabis?
I would suggest not, it doesnt even describe my experience (well it does now I guess) never mind most people's, and as such at the moment it is less than useful, in fact it is positively harmful.
Oh, hang on, I can see the froth forming again. Let me remind you what bad advice does, it kills people. If we are going to have this International board, read by young people the world over, then let us try and be helpful and put the information into perspective. That means no overly positive stuff, cannabis isn't going to make you attractive to the opposite sex or boost your IQ but no overly negative stuff either because a board filled with just negative stuff does not reflect the truth and the truth is all that is important. So if one in a hundred people develop a particular side effect than we need to know that so that we neither overvalue nor ignore it.
Just in case you still dont understand, cannabis is not 'safe' or without problems and I have never said that it is, but wishing to know just how unsafe it is or what the problems really are or how frequently they occur is not a bad thing in my opinion and I can't imagine why anybody would not want to do that unless they have a vested interest in denying the truth.
The truth? Jeez, that's what cannabis does to you, it turns you into an old hippy...

well, i would have to say i pretty much completely disagree with most of the actual claims made in this post- and as to the opinions, which make up the bulk of it, well they are opinions and to each his own.

For starters, people have been overly positive about weed and from my personal experience it tends to be the heavier users. This is beside the point because I wasn't accusing anyone of anything, just voicing my own opinion which is: for as much as negative rhetoric out there on weed, there is just as much falsely positive or overly simplified positive information. Most non-biased professions within the field of research science admit that it is hard to say for certain when it comes to many issues regarding cannabis for the sole reason that there is a large lack of research done on it.

and in your little rant you go as far to say that "bad advice...kills people." after ranting about how bad "false" harm reduction is. Surely you couldn't be implying that by trying to inform people that cannabis most certainly does have side effects that I am going to kill someone.... lol

I never once said cannabis is bad. I still use it daily myself, but I get irritated when I hear people talk as though there are no side effects. There are dope fiends and alcoholics who will tell you the same when they are head long into a world of hurt caused by the side effects of their habits. I'm not saying weed is just as bad, but there are enough legitimate studies like this http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/823730 that are flat out proof that side effects are very real and perhaps even measurable. Why some people experience them more or less than others is irrelevant in harm reduction. The point is that there is a risk and to let people know of the risks that they are taking when engaging in these habits. Harm reduction is not telling people to try it, they will more than likely be fine. That was the way I was introduced to it and I think it was a lie. If you think there are little to no side effects you are wrong. It is a drug by definition and by action upon the brain and body. Constant intake of a drug will cause changes and side effects other than just getting you stoned/high.


My main point wasn't to attack anyone personally. I just think it is silly to play the victim when it comes to weed avocation. Advocating cannabis for medicinal use is an entirely different thing, I am not here to argue for or against that. Advocating it for recreational use and lifestyle is a choice an individual should make. I look at my friends who went a different direction when I started smoking weed. I don't think there life is less fulfilling and that they are missing out. I once did, but that just isn't the truth.

So I gather what the OP is trying to ask in his very distracted and confusing way is that "what are the real side effects of using cannabis when you factor out all the other negative/harmful influences from our lives" or to put simply- "What are the real side effects from using cannabis". It's a question that has no answer because there has not been enough scientific research to answer it. That is the answer anyone will give who is well enough versed in cannabis literature and research. The flat out truth is we don't know for certain or have a clear and precise view of how it effects us. That said, it does not mean that all and any research done on cannabis is flawed and inconclusive. There is a deal of fairly recent studies that have shown cannabis use to cause changes in the brain. If you understand at all the basic principals of how our brain works and how cannabis gets us "high", then I don't think it is surprising.

The article linked by the OP talks about removing it from SCH. 1 class of drugs. That is what is preventing it from being extensively researched and requiring a special permitting process for any body or institution looking to study it. From the sound of it, the Dr. is probably testifying on behalf of the medicinal uses of cannabis- not the recreational use. Medicinal use and rec use are two totally different things. When you have something like cancer and have just gone through radiation therapy then you might look at the side effects of cannabis differently than if you were a healthy functioning person. Considering the multitude of side effects of pharmaceutical drugs, cannabis looks to be very minimal in comparison.

you say no overly positive stuff, perhaps you shouldn't cringe at the word side-effects. I hate to be the one to break it to you but cannabis has very real and very noticeable side effects. They are less apparent to the ones getting stoned but ask anyone who doesn't smoke about their friend who didn't smoke before and started to smoke. They will notice major changes. Changes are side effects. Perhaps the changes might be relatively benign in that it won't kill the person, but you do make sacrifices when you choose to smoke.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations,

Instead of allowing this to be derailed any further, considering the absence of a dialog for the sake of Schedule 1 Bigotry in the 1st place, euh... For the only benefit of those readers who can manage with a reality check here's one team who could answer so much better if/when asked:

NSFW:

YouTube: The Culture High - Debunking Lies About Marijuana (2014-Oct-17)


[ 18:20 ]

« But if you really want to protect children or youth, taking away their right to education, criminalizing them, preventing them from traveling or getting another job, and possibly putting them in a prison, in a cage, that is far more damaging than not only cannabis but just about any drug that you can find!! »​​

And if that won't suffice then take a peek at the story of Benton Mackenzie in Iowa... While i'll be enjoying the [ Ignore ] function...



Good day, have fun!

 

[Mafioso]

no totally you caught me i was actually pushing for weed to stay sch 1 because I hate babies. was just to scared to admit it.

i hope find the answer to your question, if you even really know what it is.

 

[Greyhounder]

well, i would have to say i pretty much completely disagree with most of the actual claims made in this post

Which claims in which posts?- and as to the opinions, which make up the bulk of it, well they are opinions and to each his own indeed.

For starters, people have been overly positive about weed where? are you talking about this thread still? and what constitutes overly positive anyway? is enjoying the effects overly positive? is not having a 'problem' with cannabis overly positive? and from my personal experience it tends to be the heavier users possibly, but I would suspect that the most enthusiastic users are the ones who understand the least through lack of experience and I would suspect that it is actually new users who are the most positive, but that’s just my opinion. . This is beside the point because I wasn't accusing anyone of anything, just voicing my own opinion which is: for as much as negative rhetoric out there on weed, there is just as much falsely positive or overly simplified positive information I would agree. Most non-biased professions within the field of research science admit that it is hard to say for certain when it comes to many issues regarding cannabis for the sole reason that there is a large lack of research done on it. The funny thing is that I almost agree, the bit I have a problem with is 'non-biased professionals', it really does sound as if only research scientists who agree with you are non-biased but let that pass, knowledge is thin on the ground in most areas not just this one

and in your little rant why, thanks you for noticing you go as far to say that "bad advice...kills people." after ranting about how bad "false" harm reduction is really? go back and read it again slowly. Surely you couldn't be implying that by trying to inform people that cannabis most certainly does have side effects that I am going to kill someone.... lol if it is done badly that is exactly what I am saying, now read this really carefully:
For many years drugs education in the UK was beyond a joke, if you were really lucky you got the police turn up and show you a video of a dead girl in a bed full of tubes and tell you that all drugs are bad and will kill you. What happened? all the kids that were never, ever, going to take drugs didn’t take them, all the ones that were going to did but had to do so based mainly on the anecdotes of local morons and fuckwits.
I have spent most of my adult life helping to pick up the pieces of this jolly tale. We had our annual service in the Cathedral last month to remember the dead of the drugs war, it was packed.
Bad advice does kill and it might even kill when we are talking about cannabis, if you are a kid and you already smoke cannabis and so do your mates and your experience is that no one gets harmed, not even a little bit, but Bluelight is full of stories about how awful cannabis is, do you think they will think, A) Wow! I must stop before it’s too late, or B) what a bunch of tossers talking shit, no point hanging around in there, I might as well go to my drugs ed lesson for all the good it does and then they miss the bit that reminds you not to eyeball powders, or double dose PMA too soon, or mix opiates and alcohol or whatever.
By and large people don’t talk to professionals about their drug use until after it has become a problem, they don’t because whilst it is still fun why would you? but also because the general experience is that professionals don't understand, they only know the negative side and are only going to tell you to stop and try and frighten you into doing so, this is only partly true but ensures much more harm than is required. Bluelight should be part of the solution not part of the problem.
I never once said cannabis is bad. I still use it daily myself , but I get irritated when I hear people talk as though there are no side effects but no one did, you are reading what you want to read! Cannabis has side effects.. There are dope fiends and alcoholics who will tell you the same when they are head long into a world of hurt caused by the side effects of their habits of course there are but they are dope fiends and alcoholics and they have their own set of side effects to deal with. I'm not saying weed is just as bad i do note that you try to keep some perspective but it still reads like 'heroin has horrible side effects, I am not saying that cannabis is just as bad, but...' and that is crap, do not compare the two, they are not even vaguely similar now are they? , but there are enough legitimate studies would those be the ones you agree with by any chance? like this http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/823730 that are flat out proof that side effects are very real and perhaps even measurable if they are real they would have to be measurable, but let me say it again, cannabis has side effects, lots of people probably shouldn’t smoke it all and some who do should give up. Why some people experience them more or less than others is irrelevant in harm reduction 'why' is irrelevant but the fact that they do is absolutely relevant as is the frequency they are experienced. The point is that there is a risk and to let people know of the risks that they are taking when engaging in these habits and this differs from what I am saying how?. Harm reduction is not telling people to try it, they will more than likely be fine I know what harm reduction is, I posted it earlier. That was the way I was introduced to it and I think it was a lie which bit was the lie though? you didn’t have access to all the information necessary to make a valid and informed choice for sure so there was definitely room for some harm minimisation there, but they were also right, you were more than likely going to be fine as in not dead or twitching and dribbling or were you inevitably going to suffer and they should have said 'no, don’t touch it'. If you think there are little to no side effects you are wrong I have said in every post I have made cannabis has side effects so please just stop it. It is a drug by definition indeed and by action upon the brain and body. Constant intake of a drug will cause changes and side effects other than just getting you stoned/high. Good grief, drugs, chemicals and brain changes, scary! This is the sort of stuff I am talking about, it is scare mongering unless you add in the details, everything you eat and drink and breathe is a drug or a chemical or a chemical which your body is about to turn into a drug or a drug that your body had turned into a chemical. I can change my brain chemistry temporarily or permanently at will using my own drugs, if I meditate my brain chemistry changes, if I reread your post my brain chemistry changes, if I decide that I want to work permanent nights my brain chemistry changes permanently, so what?.

My main point wasn't to attack anyone personally nevertheless you got close enough to rattle my cage and I am now doing the same back and I really should stop. I just think it is silly to play the victim when it comes to weed avocation I don’t think I quite understand, are you suggesting that I am playing the victim by not having a negative experience to tell and therefore denying that anybody has a negative experience? Funnily enough I think it may be the other way around and (I am not talking about you here) in the absence of a decently spectacular withdrawal symptom people felt a bit left out of the recovery/relapse threads for other drugs.. Advocating cannabis for medicinal use is an entirely different thing, I am not here to argue for or against that nor me. Advocating it for recreational use and lifestyle is a choice an individual should make its recreational use is an individual’s choice but I wouldn't ever advocate someone else use it and in Harm Reduction terms that would clearly be nonsense. Seriously, as much as that seems unlikely I have never suggested anyone ever take any drug for the first time, including alcohol, the responsibility of giving a future alcoholic their first shandy is just too much for me. . I look at my friends who went a different direction when I started smoking weed. I don't think there life is less fulfilling and that they are missing out. I once did, but that just isn't the truth. quite right, one of the barriers to quitting tobacco was a lingering belief that I was missing out on something and seeing other people smoke reminded me of that, once I managed to sort that out it got much easier.

So I gather what the OP is trying to ask in his very distracted and confusing way is that "what are the real side effects of using cannabis when you factor out all the other negative/harmful influences from our lives" or to put simply- "What are the real side effects from using cannabis". It's a question that has no answer because there has not been enough scientific research to answer it I can’t speak for the OP but I absolutely agree with this, we know far less than we think we know but we do fortunately have a backup with lots of personal experiences both good and bad. That is the answer anyone will give who is well enough versed in cannabis literature and research you clearly consider yourself 'well versed' in the same way that you identify with, non-biased research scientists, just allow room for someone else to have an opinion which is different from yours. The flat out truth is we don't know for certain or have a clear and precise view of how it effects us whilst that is true i think we do have some clues based upon experiences and in the absence of a clear and precise view it is those we will have to use. . That said, it does not mean that all and any research done on cannabis is flawed and inconclusive. There is a deal of fairly recent studies that have shown cannabis use to cause changes in the brain. If you understand at all the basic principals of how our brain works and how cannabis gets us "high", then I don't think it is surprising. I see, that'll be the non-biased research scientists then, and I am sure you are 'well versed' in brain chemistry.

The article linked by the OP talks about removing it from SCH. 1 class of drugs. That is what is preventing it from being extensively researched and requiring a special permitting process for any body or institution looking to study it. From the sound of it, the Dr. is probably testifying on behalf of the medicinal uses of cannabis- not the recreational use. Medicinal use and rec use are two totally different things. When you have something like cancer and have just gone through radiation therapy then you might look at the side effects of cannabis differently than if you were a healthy functioning person. Considering the multitude of side effects of pharmaceutical drugs, cannabis looks to be very minimal in comparison.

you say no overly positive stuff , perhaps you shouldn't cringe at the word side-effects I haven’t said anything overly positive and for, hopefully the last time, cannabis has side effects. I hate to be the one to break it to you but cannabis has very real and very noticeable side effects get a grip. They are less apparent to the ones getting stoned but ask anyone who doesn't smoke about their friend who didn't smoke before and started to smoke. They will notice major changes really? do you believe that or have you just got a bit carried away? The fact that I smoked fags used to surprise people, they would fall off their seats if they knew about cannabis, plus I would be fired and my status within my community would suffer. If I am this damn good now who knows how fabulous I would have been if I hadn’t touched the stuff. Changes are side effects very profound I am sure, 'well versed' I would say, not actually right but it has been a long post, I am flagging too. Perhaps the changes might be relatively benign in that it won't kill the person why not? the side effects of eating edibles might easily be stomach cancer, the side effects of smoking are certainly lung and mouth cancer. Cannabis isn’t safe you know? There are side effects to be considered., but you do make sacrifices when you choose to smoke no, you make a choice, there is nothing about it which a priori requires a sacrifice, the choice of word is interesting.

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After all that I have reached the startling conclusion that we actually agree!
We agree that there are both effects and side effects which may not be benign in the short or long term.
We agree that making an informed choice involves understanding the negative as well as the positive side of things.
We agree that we need to do more research to aid better understanding.
We agree that it is foolish to be polarised into ludicrous for or against positions, things are too complicated for that.
The only things left are the things we started with, how often and how many and neither of us knew that to start with and we don't know it yet.
I will leave it to you to find something we dont agree on.

 

[Mafioso]

lol, greyhounder you are a funny one.

a side effect is really any other effect other than the one intended. so for most stoners that would be easily defined as any part of the "ride" that is not making you feel good or "high". Thus, unless you perceive the loss of short term memory as a good thing, then the quick answer to your question would be that every cannabis user will experience negative effects of weed.

It is this type of question that also implies that weed is harmless and stirs replies likes Rio Fantastic and mine. It would be silly to ask "what percentage of alcohol drinkers experience side effects" or any drug for that matter because the answer would be everyone. You do not have to be able to perceive a change for it to be there or for it be negative. And if I'm interpreting the question right- which who has any idea if I am or not.... it could be answered. Measurable difference in the brain have been observed at even the mild recreational level. It has to do with the way it interacts with your brain chemistry. The people who may be able to use cannabis with virtually no observable changes beyond the period of intoxication would be limited to the non habitual user. If you don't want to believe it I'm not going to try to convince you any further than I have. There is new, very real, peer-reviewed research on the subject. That is not to mention the damage that is done via method of administration. If you don't believe me look for yourself or keep denying it. either way.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations,

Some more:

Blaming cannabis for ailments of different/compounded origin(s)
Never mention it's about 2.2 %, or more likely a fraction of that!...​

Good day, have fun!!

 

[thujone]

TBPH I mostly skimmed through the thread but I don't agree with the premise which seems to be that any discussion about the negatives of cannabis is unjust propaganda. The concept of a proper scientific study is generally incongruous with the unquantifiable nature of psychological side-effects, so the fact that studies show x y z positive effects does not necessarily mean that there are not widespread negative side-effects that are simply difficult to replicate in definitive studies. As a result, it seems reasonable to assume that open dialogue, in which disagreements can exist to limit the effects of bias, is the best way to explore whether or not complaints of certain side-effects are legitimate.