Harm Reduction The Pain Management Megathread (Chronic and Acute Pain Discussion) Version 5.0 ~ V

[TheLostBoys]

That was the point! It's absolutely ridiculous and yes, as a matter of fact, I am pretty whacked but seriously pissed~!

We understand what you're trying to get across........the worst is that there are some people that get strong pain meds w/o an Xray or MRI from a doctor that is really cool (very few & far between) & then there is a lot of people that have the Xrays & MRI showing the reasons why they have chronic pain & they can barely get Tramadol........everything is so backwards!

 

[Cliffy78]

The liars seem to be able to get ahead by schemeing while people who are honest get shit on, I'm fuckin tired of it. Shit makes a lot of people just give up and off themselves I bet.
Hey I'm not hating on the schemers, more power to them, get yours! I just wish us peeps who are living in agony everyday got a fair shake.

 

[jamesBrown]

The liars seem to be able to get ahead by schemeing while people who are honest get shit on, I'm fuckin tired of it. Shit makes a lot of people just give up and off themselves I bet.
Hey I'm not hating on the schemers, more power to them, get yours! I just wish us peeps who are living in agony everyday got a fair shake.

...if only.

I'm PERMANENTLY disabled(and permanently in agony) because I was honest with my drs about my PREVIOUS drug use while seeking help for unimaginable pain. It took 2 months for ANY dr to listen/believe me about the pain I was in. I went to all the hospitals I could physically get to(around 5-6), met with several private drs, and even tried chiropractors.... not a single one treated me like I was human. In fact, they said and did horrible/unimaginable things to me(I explained this in detail in a thread just under 4 years ago when it occurred). In the end, after 2 months of attempting to get treatment(or rather, attempting to find someone willing to at least test me for some disorder to see if I was lying to them or not), I found a pain specialist willing to do an MRI(who to this day is still my pain specialist). As soon as he saw the results of the MRI he personally called me and told me to get to the hospital and that he had called ahead to have them prepare a room for me. Turns out, while I was attempting to get help(begging/crying/screaming in pain rather.... all of which I had no control over because of how intensely severe the pain was) for those 2 months, my lower spine(L3-L5) was rotting away and oozing out the side of my spinal column because of a pseudomonas infection that could EASILY have been treated 100% by approx. 2 weeks of oral antibiotics.
Now the damage is done and all the doctors I have been to since agree that there is no surgery or treatment to fix me. I live my life in bed now. I had to stop my life. No more work, college, parties, social development... life. All gone.
And since I live in Texas where Rick F****** Perry made sure all our patients rights laws are biased in favor of the doctors, I had no way of suing anyone.
It's hard to describe the anger that an experience like that instills in ones soul. Only the sadness is able to overshadow the anger.
Lesson learned... don't hurt yourself in the great f****** state of Texas(which, BTW, is the only state left in U.S. that has outlawed needle exchange programs of any kind.)

EDIT: I now am prescribed 2 100mcg/hr Fentanyl patches every 2 days, 6 8mg Dilaudid/day, along with MANY other meds including a couple benzos, muscle relaxants, etc. I have been on these meds and at these doses since the very beginning when they finally diagnosed me. Despite MASSIVE increase in tolerance, my meds have stayed at the same dose for almost 4 years now. This all happened when I was just turning 21, now I'm about to turn 26.

 

[BigG]

How are you finding the fentanyl patches Jamesbrown? Some people swear by them whereas others can't get away with them at all. I tried them for about 5 or 6 months but just couldn't get them to work. Initially it was problems getting them to stick but even after fixing that I still found them hit and miss. Plus the doctor I was seeing at the time didn't believe in prescribing breakthrough meds with them at all. My dose was 150mcg/he but he would often accidentally script double that (he was an incompetent fool). General consensus with fent patches is that you once you approach 300mcg /hour they are usually discontinued in favour of something else as they have a kind of diminishing level of returns above that doseage.

On another subject iI kind of feel bad living in a country where meds are so liberally prescribed compared to the states. My personal pain issues have improved somewhat and I would very much like to get off my meds but being on 60mg methadone three times a day, that's easier said than done unfortunately

 

[Cliffy78]

...if only.

I'm PERMANENTLY disabled(and permanently in agony) because I was honest with my drs about my PREVIOUS drug use while seeking help for unimaginable pain. It took 2 months for ANY dr to listen/believe me about the pain I was in. I went to all the hospitals I could physically get to(around 5-6), met with several private drs, and even tried chiropractors.... not a single one treated me like I was human. In fact, they said and did horrible/unimaginable things to me(I explained this in detail in a thread just under 4 years ago when it occurred). In the end, after 2 months of attempting to get treatment(or rather, attempting to find someone willing to at least test me for some disorder to see if I was lying to them or not), I found a pain specialist willing to do an MRI(who to this day is still my pain specialist). As soon as he saw the results of the MRI he personally called me and told me to get to the hospital and that he had called ahead to have them prepare a room for me. Turns out, while I was attempting to get help(begging/crying/screaming in pain rather.... all of which I had no control over because of how intensely severe the pain was) for those 2 months, my lower spine(L3-L5) was rotting away and oozing out the side of my spinal column because of a pseudomonas infection that could EASILY have been treated 100% by approx. 2 weeks of oral antibiotics.
Now the damage is done and all the doctors I have been to since agree that there is no surgery or treatment to fix me. I live my life in bed now. I had to stop my life. No more work, college, parties, social development... life. All gone.
And since I live in Texas where Rick F****** Perry made sure all our patients rights laws are biased in favor of the doctors, I had no way of suing anyone.
It's hard to describe the anger that an experience like that instills in ones soul. Only the sadness is able to overshadow the anger.
Lesson learned... don't hurt yourself in the great f****** state of Texas(which, BTW, is the only state left in U.S. that has outlawed needle exchange programs of any kind.)

EDIT: I now am prescribed 2 100mcg/hr Fentanyl patches every 2 days, 6 8mg Dilaudid/day, along with MANY other meds including a couple benzos, muscle relaxants, etc. I have been on these meds and at these doses since the very beginning when they finally diagnosed me. Despite MASSIVE increase in tolerance, my meds have stayed at the same dose for almost 4 years now. This all happened when I was just turning 21, now I'm about to turn 26.

Geez James sry to hear about all that shit man. I had a similar experience trying to get treated, it's a nightmare. I totally understand the tolerance thing too, it's really unfair IMO.
That really sucks that your in tx. That seems like a lawsuit Waiting to happen. I can't believe you guys have so few rights in tx. Given the meds you got put on that seems like a pretty open and shut case. 200 mcg fent is no fucking joke! But fuck, once your tolerance grew you were fucked. That really sucks cause people must look at u like ur crazy if u tell them ur still in pain. Normal people and most drs just will never understand sometimes and it's definitely not as easy as "just get another dr." Like I've seen written so many times.
I get the funny looks from my family and dr too if I bother telling them I'm still in pain, and I'm only on 45mg of oxy a day. I can't imagine the bullshit u gotta put up with. They all think your trying to game them, it really fucking sucks brother. I hope u can find some relief soon(as much relief as possible anyways) take care James...

 

[Cliffy78]

How are you finding the fentanyl patches Jamesbrown? Some people swear by them whereas others can't get away with them at all. I tried them for about 5 or 6 months but just couldn't get them to work. Initially it was problems getting them to stick but even after fixing that I still found them hit and miss. Plus the doctor I was seeing at the time didn't believe in prescribing breakthrough meds with them at all. My dose was 150mcg/he but he would often accidentally script double that (he was an incompetent fool). General consensus with fent patches is that you once you approach 300mcg /hour they are usually discontinued in favour of something else as they have a kind of diminishing level of returns above that doseage.

On another subject iI kind of feel bad living in a country where meds are so liberally prescribed compared to the states. My personal pain issues have improved somewhat and I would very much like to get off my meds but being on 60mg methadone three times a day, that's easier said than done unfortunately

Hey England, how's things buddy? I hope all is well with the emt training and at home!
The states suck for pain man. At least with state insurance anyways. No need to feel bad, it is what it is. Someday I'm moving over there or to France if I ever come into some money. Better to be alone with decent drs and somewhere I'd like to be than being here, alone and feeling shitty in a place I fucking hate! Lol. Just checking in brother, I hope things are improving for you! Ttyl.

 

[BigG]

Hey cliffy, things aren't great...failed a part of my course which I will have to redo but passed my advanced driving course today which was cool...driving at high speed on blue lights. Had to move out today so staying in a bed&breakfast place tonight and going to have to find somewhere else in the morning. Honestly I think if I wasn't mentally tougher I would probably have offed myself years ago all the shit Ive gone through 100% on my own....no family...not a soul but me..but you know what? Fuck it!!! The only person you can truely rely on is yourself anyway. My pain is vastly improved and I love my work...so things ain't all bad...life is what you make it

 

[Cliffy78]

Shit sorry to hear about your place. Your stress level must be on 10 man, not a good place. I know it won't help but there's always a room for you over in the states mate. It sounds lame but you've always got a friend, even if it's 5k miles away. You helped me through a shit time that I'll never be able to repay. If you ever find yourself out this way let me know brother.
At least you got to speed around in an ambulance!! That sounds awesome
Lol. You'll be in my prayers tonight brother. Sounds silly but god has a way of helping when we least expect it, even if you don't believe in him. Take it easy and enjoy the b&b for now ttyl bro...

 

[xtcgrrrl]

Hi guys, the pain is really bad today. I've taken slightly more than my recommended dose of Neurontin and I tried a CWE on some 8 mg codeine pills my friend brought me back from Canada. It was an epic fail, I lost a lot of the water and the end results were cloudy, not clear. I drank about half of it because I'm concerned about the APAP and my liver. But I just made two ups of PST and used the back massager and I feel a bit better. If my parents notice I'm woozy I'll blame it on the Neurontin. Wondering if I should make a third cup. But I took soma and etizolam also so I should be cautious and just wait for them to kick in. I might make another cup of PST and set it aside for tonight so I can sleep. I also want to pre-make my CWE codeine drink for tomorrow morning so I don't have to wait in agony like I did today. If anyone has tips for me about CWE that would be greatly appreciated. Now my arm is tired from typing on the iPad so I think I'll stop now. Hope everyone is having a pain-free or less-pain day!!!

 

[rehab_bound]

6 months ago i decided to get my pain managed it started when i was 19 i developed a form of arthritis called ankylosing spondylitis. I was in pain but it wasn't crippling. Then i got in a car wreck at 22 and ended up with 2 bulging discs and 5 pinched nerves. I asked my doctor for fentanyl patch 25mcg and it worked wonders for the pain. It didn't go away completely i had oxycodone for flare ups. Well i got really depressed and started abusing other drugs, nobody will let me go to rehab with fentanyl so I am seeing a new doctor tom. to see if he can help me till next week when i go to a rehab thats going to work with me on getting back surgery because i have had fentanyl in my system 24/7 for about 6 months I am scared of the pain ill be in and I can't even imagine what withdrawals are going to feel like, but i cannot live my life in constant pain, i look at other pain free happy kids and can hardly remember when that was me..

 

[rehab_bound]

How are you finding the fentanyl patches Jamesbrown? Some people swear by them whereas others can't get away with them at all. I tried them for about 5 or 6 months but just couldn't get them to work. Initially it was problems getting them to stick but even after fixing that I still found them hit and miss. Plus the doctor I was seeing at the time didn't believe in prescribing breakthrough meds with them at all. My dose was 150mcg/he but he would often accidentally script double that (he was an incompetent fool). General consensus with fent patches is that you once you approach 300mcg /hour they are usually discontinued in favour of something else as they have a kind of diminishing level of returns above that doseage.

On another subject iI kind of feel bad living in a country where meds are so liberally prescribed compared to the states. My personal pain issues have improved somewhat and I would very much like to get off my meds but being on 60mg methadone three times a day, that's easier said than done unfortunately

Use alcohol swabs on your skin before you put a patch on, it takes of all the oil, or you can buy a large bandaid and put it over it, i wear mine on my chest above the nipple

 

[BigG]

You need to be very carefully swabbing the skin with alcohol.. Yes it clears the oil from the skin but since the fentanyl that is held within the silicone adhesive matrix of the patch is HIGHLY soluble in alcohol (this is how people extrct the fent from the patches- by soaking them in alcohol).... You need to be very careful. The presence of isopropyl alcohol on you skin will cause the fentanyl to be drawn out of the patch at a much higher rate. In fact if you carefully read the Janson-Ciag literature that comes with their durogesic patches.....swabbing the skin with alcohol is one thing they recommend you DONT do.....the band-aid or tagaderm sugesstion is tried and tested though.

 

[TheLostBoys]

6 months ago i decided to get my pain managed it started when i was 19 i developed a form of arthritis called ankylosing spondylitis. I was in pain but it wasn't crippling. Then i got in a car wreck at 22 and ended up with 2 bulging discs and 5 pinched nerves. I asked my doctor for fentanyl patch 25mcg and it worked wonders for the pain. It didn't go away completely i had oxycodone for flare ups. Well i got really depressed and started abusing other drugs, nobody will let me go to rehab with fentanyl so I am seeing a new doctor tom. to see if he can help me till next week when i go to a rehab thats going to work with me on getting back surgery because i have had fentanyl in my system 24/7 for about 6 months I am scared of the pain ill be in and I can't even imagine what withdrawals are going to feel like, but i cannot live my life in constant pain, i look at other pain free happy kids and can hardly remember when that was me..

What do you want to be put on for your chronic pain? Methadone & Fentanyl are 2 pain meds I would stay far away from because of how powerful & addictive they can be........there are some other nice opiates that can be used for pain like Levorphanol, Oxymorphone, Oxycodone (you have used), Zohydro.

 

[Cliffy78]

While there's no doubt fentanyl is addictive I think oxycodone and oxymorphone are equally if not more addictive.
With fentanyl the meds are distributed evenly over time so you don't have the peaks after like say popping an ir pill such as oxy. If used properly the patches don't get you blasted like say an oxy30 does. Even with oxy your body adjusts but u still get that buzz and the little energy boost.
With fentanyl that goes away much quicker without the oral fixation or popping another pill.
I tried the fentanyl a few times, I had bought them off the street and I stuck it on me and got jack, so then I did that little trick and nearly killed myself. Applied as instructed the euphoria is there but it's pretty minimal compared to an oxy30. Just my opinion, were all different with our preferences...

 

[TheLostBoys]

Too many people have dabbled with Fentanyl trying to get a better & ended up dead, go check out the Darkside.......I've had Fentanyl but never used it because of how it can easily kill.

Oxymorphone is very addictive but is a better med for pain than Fentanyl from everything I've read. There are no pain meds that are decent & w/o a possible addiction to it.

If you want to fight the pain you're going through, you need to sacrifice for addiction.

Fentanyl, Oxymorphone & Methadone will all send your tolerance thru the roof.

Using the others will keep your tolerance down a bit....

Only people I have seen Fentanyl used on were people in the hospital that are dying, cancer patients & some people with severe nerve & chronic bone pain.

If I was a doctor, I would only prescribe Morphine, Levorphanol, Oxycodone, Zohydro.....
once the patients have gone thru those after several years, then I would prescribe Hydromorphine, Oxymorphone & the last ones would be Fentanyl & Methadone but these wouldn't be prescribed until after years of the previous meds were used thru therapy.

 

[CaveJohnson]

So I discontinued my Morphine by choice through my doctor, as the side effects became problematic (constipation lasting days and days, slow mentally, etc.) and now I'm regretting it.

My doctor acted as if the tapering would be easy...bullshit. I tapered myself off years ago when I lost my health insurance and it was easier than this. I'm 4 days out and I have a splitting headache, I'm sneezing all the time, the pain is bad and it's making me depressed. Sucks.

I'm tired of there being no good alternative. It's either suffer or be dependent on meds to feel better but deal with shitty side effects.

 

[xtcgrrrl]

Hi guys, I decided to use loperamide today instead of any real opiates so I'm in a lot of pain. For some reason I have a huge headache. It could be becuz I'm addicted to etizolam and my stupid PO didn't deliver my package of the new shipment of pills today. I ordered it on Tuesday and it's now Saturday and this is Priority Mail, supposed to be 2-3 days. Fucking slow PO. If I had ordered from the other website that's slightly more expensive it would be here right now. So I tapered down to 1 pill today, and I have 1 for tomorrow, and then I have to pray the package arrives on Monday or I'm fucked. I took a bunch of Lyrica and I'm waiting for it to kick in. Also generic Aleve for the pain. I hope I fall asleep quickly tonight.

 

[TheLostBoys]

So I discontinued my Morphine by choice through my doctor, as the side effects became problematic (constipation lasting days and days, slow mentally, etc.) and now I'm regretting it.

My doctor acted as if the tapering would be easy...bullshit. I tapered myself off years ago when I lost my health insurance and it was easier than this. I'm 4 days out and I have a splitting headache, I'm sneezing all the time, the pain is bad and it's making me depressed. Sucks.

I'm tired of there being no good alternative. It's either suffer or be dependent on meds to feel better but deal with shitty side effects.

I'm not understanding.......you opted off of morphine on your own w/o being prescribed any other opiate for your pain?

Morphine definitely causes serious constipation but I drink Miralax every other day & never miss a beat to going to the bathroom. I also drink like 2 cups of chamomile tea a day which is very good for the body & is good for constipation.

Why didn't you ask your doctor to switch you to hydrocodone or oxycodone?

Morphine does slow down the thought process a bit.......the mind does seem to work faster/better on hydrocodone.

As for which is better, being on meds for your entire life & dependant or living drug free......depends if you can live with pain.

I rather be on pain meds & not suffer severe back pain than be in pain & pain brings on depression, no contest.

 

[CaveJohnson]

I'm not understanding.......you opted off of morphine on your own w/o being prescribed any other opiate for your pain?

Morphine definitely causes serious constipation but I drink Miralax every other day & never miss a beat to going to the bathroom. I also drink like 2 cups of chamomile tea a day which is very good for the body & is good for constipation.

Why didn't you ask your doctor to switch you to hydrocodone or oxycodone?

Morphine does slow down the thought process a bit.......the mind does seem to work faster/better on hydrocodone.

As for which is better, being on meds for your entire life & dependant or living drug free......depends if you can live with pain.

I rather be on pain meds & not suffer severe back pain than be in pain & pain brings on depression, no contest.

Yeah, stopped altogether. I had gone up to 60mg 3x daily long acting and 30mg 3x daily short acting, and it was too much and it was intensifying my pain, hyperalgesia or whatever. I could've switched but I wanted to go off it totally to gauge my pain level, and I can go back on it if I choose but I won't yet.

Typing has become horrible, my wrist is in so much pain from RSI (my diagnosis, doctors gave no answer) that I barely ever type, play video games and I stopped playing guitar. Knees are screwed as always, and the thoracic outlet syndrome in my shoulder is better than it used to be...luckily.

I'm going to give Dr. John Sarno's ideas on the pain being in the mind a shot as well as going to PT and OT for shoulder and wrist respectively.

 

[edgewise1]

Wow, lotta pain here! And unfortunately I do feel your pain. TheLostBoys, you posted a reply about a heirarchy of drugs being used and had fentanyl, methadone, and one other that I cannot remember atm--I am on morphine and agree with the slowed thinking--anyway, just wanted to say that I agree with your assessment of the drug progression.

It seems that several posters are fairly young? In the 20/30 yo range? And I really think this is the reason it is so difficult for them, as a group, to get adequate pain relief. I know, NEWS FLASH, just repeating the obvious. I think that many doctors are genuinely afraid of having patients, young patients, addicted to opiates and then having to deal with it. Plus those "patients" that schemed and lied to get opiates have made doctors much more cautious about prescribing opiate/opioid pain killers as first line treatment. Thus making many jump through the hoops for months on end before prescribing a "real" pain med. And now the DEA has scheduled Tramadol so doctors may not readily hand it out as they once did.

Oh man, I started this post just to point out the comment that TheLostBoys made, and for the below paragraph about promethazine, and I went on a rant. So rant over. Do not know if it made any sense, but I feel better!!


I also saw a post made back in the first week of July that stated promethazine had amphetimine properties and this was why it synergized with opiates so well. Simply want to point out that promethazine is a first generation antihistamine that is most often prescribed for nausea. Far as I know it has NO amphetamine properties.

That's it. Well, I do hope everyone is doing well with as little pain as possible being experienced.