The Old and Overgrown 2C-E Thread

[Murple]

Personally, I never understood the hype over 2C-E. It sounds kinda like a dud to me. I'd much rather have 2C-D, or 2C-B for that matter.
[ 22 October 2002: Message edited by: morninggloryseed ]

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Murple, you're nuts. 2C-E sounds incredible and deep. 2C-D is the dud, unless you use it as a 'smart pill'. Even Shulgin considered 2C-D to "not do much on its own until you approach heroic levels."

 

[Dexter666]

Agree 2CD is a complete waste of time it did'nt do much at all at 25mg i'd expect at least a light buzz or something now 2CB on the other hand now thats the way to go right there its better than 2CI incredable.

 

[Murple]

Shulgin may be a chemical genius, but I find the worship of his drug opinions silly, seeing as his reactions are typically quite different from the majority of people. For example, he found 2C-T-7 to be better than 2C-T-2, and DIPT was nothing but an auditory distortion agent for him. Compared to the typical reactions of people (where 2C-T-2 is the better one and DIPT produces typical tryptamine psychedelic effects) his responses are quite unusual, and he knows this. Seeing as I doubt you've tried either 2C-E or 2C-D, I think going by Shulgin's reactions is kinda silly. There are other people who've tried these, and the reports are out there... and evaluating them all, well, I suspect many people are going to be disappointed by 2C-E and surprised by 2C-D.

 

[Murple]

25mg of 2C-D sounds like a pretty small dose to be judging it by. Shulgin gives the dose range as 20-60mg, so you were near the bottom of his range... and he's pretty widely considered to be a low doser, so, I would be surprised if you'd come close to 2C-D's full effects at that dose. This is 2C-D's only major flaw that I can see... that it's not as potent by weight as similar compounds. However, based on the reports I've read (not just Shulgin's or that Smart Pills pamphlet) I suspect that what it lacks in milligrammage it will make up for with magic.
Of course, all this PIHKAL worship combined with the first round letdown has everyone in a tizzy over 2C-E, so it will come out first and everyone will ooh and ahh over it... hopefully the research chemical scene lasts long enough to get to 2C-D though, since I'd bet that it turns out to be by far the more rewarding. I just hope its priced cheaper to make up for its milligram weakness.

 

[BlueLightSpradl]

i've never seen 2c-d, but all the newer analogs that are being manufactured like 2c-e and 2c-c are too expensive for me to dabble with. i'm assuming that this trend is only going to get worse. 2c-i and 2-ct-2 are still moderately priced, but i don't see that lasting very much longer. its seems as if the rc scene is slowly dying, because of too many scattered venders and the crack down on imprisoning distributors. its the simple economics of a low supply meeting high demands at a high equalibrium price. Of course this was obviously coming, but i feel lucky to have experimented with some of these substances that will become as mythical (at least in my mind) as dom, 2c-b, so on and so on.
so where do we go from here?

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Originally posted by Murple:
I think going by Shulgin's reactions is kinda silly. There are other people who've tried these, and the reports are out there... and evaluating them all, well, I suspect many people are going to be disappointed by 2C-E and surprised by 2C-D.
As I am sure you know, PIHKAL and TIHKAL's trip report snippits are not just Shulgin's. Some are from classic literature, some are from his wife, and some are from members of his inner circle research group. PIHKAL is more than just Shulgin's opinions on the materials.
In the case of 2C-E...I am also going by the reports at Erowid, some of which are more interesting than the ones in PIHKAL. A consistant theme mentioned in almost all of them is that 2C-E is a slightly difficult chemical, as far as subjectively. I think that is especially interesting.
I like the idea of trying a new chemical that isn't just fun, especially from a psychotherapuetic point of view. In my own psychedelic experiences, it has often been that the more difficult experiences were the ones I have learned the most from. Perhaps dealing with troubling spaces is what 2C-E will be good for. Only one way to find out.
I wish there were more reports on 2C-D to better understand it's nature.
[ 22 October 2002: Message edited by: morninggloryseed ]

 

[Murple]

"Troubling spaces"... see, thats what I mean. Thats from what, a few lines in PIHKAL? And now people just associate... "Oh yeah, 2C-E, thats the one with the dark edges." I kinda doubt its got much more of a dark edge than any other 2C's, but those handful of reports gets into the public psyche, and that has a huge impact on further users' impressions. This is my point exactly. It may not be so much a hero worship of Shulgin (though for many people that's likely a factor) but these initial reports from an "authoritative" source do contaminate the meme pool in a major way.
2C-E may turn out to be nice. Looking at the OTHER descriptions in PIHKAL, it doesn't seem that a dark troubling nature is something universal. We're probably looking at the reports of like 4 or 5 people who each only tried it a couple times. If it dropped in my lap, I'd consider using it. However, I'm not going to let a few people's reports influence me too much, expecially when the person who I suspect wrote most of those PIHKAL reports is pretty notorious for having erratic reactions. Even if he is right, the reports sound pretty negative and the comment that other people dont like it (even though they intend to try it again) just doesn't scream "winner" to me. I'll reserve judgement until I've had a chance to try it myself... but based just on second hand reports, 2C-C and 2C-D both sound far more appealing as far as therapeutic, entheogenic, or recreational psychedelics. Again, though, until I've had them myself, I'll hold off on judgement.
As for the reports... TIHKAL does include reports from many sources including the net, literature, etc. PIHKAL's reports all come from Shulgin, his wife, and his research circle.
[ 23 October 2002: Message edited by: Murple ]

 

[Sledge]

2c-e

I would really like to try 2C-E but I've heard it's
really powerful and the reports I've read seems mindblowing.

Well the thing, I've taken 2C-I's before but they never
hit me, supposedly bulk, so generally this will be the first
Phen I try. In most trip reports they compare it
with other Phen.'s so they all seem experienced with
the subjects. Would it be recommended for me to try 2C-I
before 2C-E ?

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Maple and Brown Sugar

I don't recommend drugs.

But 2C-I is a lot more gentle than 2C-E. If you are not too experienced with psychedelics, or comfortable with them, you should probably go with 2C-I. It is much more laid-back than 2C-E and dare I say more fun/recreational. 2C-E was pretty damn serious.

I said before I would not allow any of these "what psychedelic should I take" posts. Your best bet is to read all the reports and make your own decisions. But I guess I will let this one stay open for now to see if any interesting information on 2C-E comes foward.

 

[tathra]

i think if you're asking this question, you arent prepared for a serious psychedelic like 2CE. perhaps you should just stick with the 'gentler,' and maybe even 'fun' 2c's, such as 2cc, 2ci, or 2ct2, until you've gained experience with this class of psychedelic, and then maybe consider moving up to the more serious ones.

from what i've read, 2ce is definately not something to be taken lightly, and definately not for beginners to psychedelics

 

[Morninggloryseed]

2C-T-2 is (in my opinion) a little on the heavy side too (for a phenethylamine anyway), but no where near as heavy as 2C-E is.

 

[AndrePenn]

2c-e

Any pea that tastes that much like cocaine has got to be good.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

>Any pea that tastes that much like cocaine has got to be
>good.

Are you saying you thought 2C-E tasted like cocaine? I have never snorted, smoked, injected, or eaten cocaine. But once when it was there in front of me at a party, I did take a taste of it just for the novelty. It had a mildly bitter flavor and numbed my tongue. According to those who were using it, it was VERY good cocaine. I have no idea how much they were taking at a time, but they were not big lines.

Anyway, after I weighed out the 2C-E I licked the little spatula that I was using to handle the powder and it sure didn't remind me of cocaine. Cocaine doesn't taste that bad for an alkaloid, but 2C-E was very, very bitter.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

but my stomach was in knots for most of the trip, especially towards the end. here i am, a few days later, and i think i'm showing some signs of acute damage (liver i think)

What signs of liver damage do you think you show, and what did you have to eat that day. I find food can really effect a trip. especially body-load and other uncomfortable things. I got to say, if you found troubeling side-effects, then IMing the material isn't going to make it better. They will most likely be worse. I can't comment on 'plugging' psychedelics, as I have never done this.

 

[jonah_222]

hepatox

Hepatotoxicity can cause permanent injury and death. It is important to detect hepatotoxicity in its early stages so that steps can be taken to arrest its development and allow the liver to heal.

Initially hepatotoxicity may be marked by acute gastrointestinal symptoms, including severe diarrhea. The second phase, is characterized by abatement of symptoms. During this apparent subsidence, biochemical evidence of hepatic injury appears. Oliguria is usual. The third phase, that of overt hepatic damage, becomes clinically apparent 3 to 5 days after ingestion, with the appearance of jaundice. Renal failure may occur. Can be fatal.

The symptoms of chemically-induced (drug-induced) hepatitis are similar to that of infectious hepatitis. It is estimated that most individuals who develop hepatitis A never notice it; but the body mounts and immune response, which then protects the patient from subsequent infections. Of course, the body does not mount an immune defense against drug-induced hepatitis.

Symptoms of hepatitis:

anorexia (loss of appetite)
general malaise (feeling unwell)
nausea
vomiting
brown urine
light-colored stools
unusual tiredness / weakness
stomach or abdominal pain
jaundice (yellowing of the skin or whites of the eyes)
Charles M. Nolan, MD; Stefan V. Goldberg, MD; Susan E. Buskin, PhD; Hepatotoxicity Associated With Isoniazid Preventive Therapy -
A 7-Year Survey From a Public Health Tuberculosis Clinic Vol. 281, pp. 1014-1018, Mar. 17, 1999

unquote.

-j.

 

[tathra]

^ nothing like that, thankfully

hopefully i'll be fine in a few days. could also be because of the APAP i've had to take recently cuz of migraines (had no opiates or anything useful onhand, so had to make do with what was around)

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Tath, you didn't answer my question. What had you had to eat? Eating on the day you trip can GREATLY affect things. That's why I fast for such occasions.

 

[nothinginside]

i never really get stimulated except at my peak.. for some reason..

all my friends felt hyper and anxious.. one friend described the feeling as running full speed toward some point that's not really there... it took me a full three hours to peak.. i ate dinner right beforehand.. spaghetti, no meat.. maybe a little of the sauce.. and a peice of garlic bread... the friend that described it as stimulating ate as well, but is very sensitive to psychedelics i think.. so am i, certain ones just play on me differently.

i've had acid and shrooms kick in in a little over 10 mins.. not trip.. but slight effects, altered visual perception, stimulation...

i considered 2ce to be very relaxing.. yet stimulating? you know what i'm talking about probably.. i was relaxed enough that i could run around like a little kid i even acted like an airplane, that was great.. i really felt like i was flying across the surface...

also, boats are awesome while tripping.. riding in a bouy feild is even better don't worry, we had sober drivers for the most part of our trip.. my friend ( a dumbass, but probably my best friend ) was the one working that shift, so he drove the boat for the most part, he was on the same amount as me, i had to tell him to turn a couple of times because i think the world turned to one big visual for him.. for some reason i can't ever let go in such situations, probably a good thing, or else we would have rammed a couple of boats i sat right up front the whole time just felt like i was hovering over the water, feet dangling, slightly skimming the surface.... wow..

dammit.. i miss it

anyways, sorry, kinda rambled a bit there, i'm in the process of writing a report... its kinda long, trying to cover all that i can without destroying the true meaning of the experience.. which is hard when talking about tripping...

morning glory.. did you notice any dominate colors? like colors that would kinda overpower anything in the visual feild? my friends and i all noticed pink and purple.. we would catch ourselves saying it.. i hadn't said anything about it yet, and one of my friends was sitting there just entranced, fixed on one point, then just blurted out "pink and purple, purple and pink... "
then said mumbled some stuff and waved his hand around, like he was touching some objects.. i would do this too.. like if music was playing, with my eyes closed, (or open at times), it's like i could orchestrate the symphony of colors in my mind with my hand.. i dunno, you know what i mean

 

[Morninggloryseed]

morning glory.. did you notice any dominate colors? like colors that would kinda overpower anything in the visual feild?

No. Colors never dominated the visual field, but the movements and melting/morphing did. I actually had flat out hallucinations.

With some other PEA's, I get dominate colors. 2C-B produces a lot of oranges and golds, 2C-T-7 produces a lot of aquamarine and reds. 2C-I goes to yellow.

But 2C-E didn't really do much with changing colors. It seemed to instead just enhance what was already there. 2C-E was one of the most visual substances I've tried so far, but it wasn't nessessarly the most colorful. Kinda hard to explain.