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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

The 'ice epidemic'

g-riff

Greenlighter
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
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17
As you guys probably know the media has been going ham on coverage about widespread ice use in Australia and the challenge the government faces in order to stop the twirling and birling of many a pipe across the country. so what do all the drug users think of these articles? are they somewhat justified, is ice becoming a massive problem that could change the ways of addicts forever, or has the use of ice stayed pretty constant over the years?


my personal opinion from what ive experienced/seen (keep in mind i have not been in the scene for as long as some), is that there has been a bit of an increase in users/dealers, meaning its easier to access but not necessarily going to destroy society any time soon.

would love to hear peoples thoughts on if ice has increased in strength/availability and if they are seeing more people in the scene get addicted and/or get psychosis.
 
This is a really interesting topic, i'm glad to see a thread about it.
My own personal experience is that i know far fewer people using meth than ~10 years ago - but reports of purity seem to have increased, and it would seem that use has increased in regional australia and suburbs on the outer edges of some of the capital cities (whereas i knew meth from an inner-city context).
Does this sound accurate to anyone else?
A recent news story on Radio National (thanks for the link, Christ!) would indicate that the recent media beat-up is simply that; a beat-up.
It has all the hallmarks of a typical drug scare campaign; psychotic users with super-human strength (a la crack and PCP reporting in the USA in previous decades).
While violence and aggression can certainly be increased by wisespread meth use, the same could be said for other drugs, such as alcohol.

Having said that, i understand that crystal meth imports (or their detection by border security) seem to be more frequent and more pure than what was around in previous years. Havent touched the stuff in a long time, so i'm going largely by what i observe/see/read (not first hand) so i will be interested to read what people have to add.
 
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from what ive heard, the regional use is very accurate, i know some people who have moved to my city from regional mining towns and they tell me ice and general drug use is really quite common among the population. i cant comment on purity though, would it be safe to assume that the methods of making meth have become better over the years leading to stronger crystal?
 
More imports i think, as precursors became more heavily regulated; resulting in less dodgy suburban meth labs?
I'm just speculating though.
 
This is a really interesting topic, i'm glad to see a thread about it.
My own personal experience is that i know far fewer people using meth than ~10 years ago - but reports of purity seem to have increased, and it would seem that use has increased in regional australia and suburbs on the outer edges of some of the capital cities (whereas i knew meth from an inner-city context).
Does this sound accurate to anyone else?
A recent news story on Radio National (thanks for the link, Christ!) would indicate that the recent media beat-up is simply that; a beat-up.
It has all the hallmarks of a typical drug scare campaign; psychotic users with super-human strength (a la crack and PCP reporting in the USA in previous decades).
While violence and aggression can certainly be increased by wisespread meth use, the same could be said for other drugs, such as alcohol.

Having said that, i understand that crystal meth imports (or their detection by border security) seem to be more frequent and more pure than what was around in previous years. Havent touched the stuff in a long time, so i'm going largely by what i observe/see/read (not first hand) so i will be interested to read what people have to add.

This is about what I think, too.

Work observations: the raw numbers of people using it are about the same as they've been for the last ten years, but it's purer and more injecting drug users are incorporating it as part of poly drug use (as in, people who were always injecting are now including meth). We've noticed more people using it in regional areas, but to be fair regional areas have always had a lot of drug use - it's just traditionally been shitty pills and masses of weed.

Personal observations: most of the meth users I know personally have 'aged out', but a younger crew have taken their place who tend to be poly drug users. Fewer party users, more lifestyle users. Purity fluctuates, but it's generally stronger stuff than was around ten years ago.
 
I think the demographic of meth users (especially among young people) has changed significantly in the last 10 to 15 years. Whereas when I first started being involved in a "scene" such as this in 1998, those that used meth used it to go out and dance, commonly in conjunction with MDMA pills, and invariably snorted it when doing so. Nowadays all sorts of people who would never contemplate going out and having a dance, are smoking it up at house parties, at home on their own, in small groups chilling, in a tent in the middle of nowhere, etc, etc. For some people their patterns of use remind me of the groups of stoners from high school who would sit around and have a "session", barely moving much at all, aside of course from passing around a smoking implement to suck on.

The wost thing the authorities ever did from my POV is crack down on MDMA production (and in particular burn all those sassafras trees in Cambodia), leading to the worldwide shortage of pills in 2005-2010, which for me can then be correlated with the significant increase in meth use amongst young people in Australia around that time - and given the huge profit margins involved and our proximity to meth producing countries (as opposed to MDMA), has only gone on to cement itself as the drug of choice down here. The traffickers of drugs both into and around the country have little incentive to see MDMA make a come back (as it has clearly done across Europe in the last three years, where meth is far less widely used).

What has changed the landscape completely and forever in relation to the use of this drug in this country is the emergence of higher purity methamphetamine in a dry crystalline form (in the old days the most potent stuff was moist!) and the explosion of the crack pipe as the weapon of choice amongst the majority of users (and frequently the problem users). I tend to think those injecting the drug has remained the most constant - both in their characteristics and overall demographic - although what they are injecting is undoubtedly purer.

Having access to a sufficient and accurate knowledge about what is happening from the law enforcement side of things (at least from quantities of MA which have been seized) allows me to make these comments:

(1) The average purity, even amongst 1 to 2 gram seizures, has presently gone through the roof when compared with 2011 to 2013.

(2) The amounts being seized at all levels has increased significantly. Ten years ago a major meth trafficker (albeit stationed in Perth which I accept was different to Sydney and still is) would be a person running around with a pound of gear. Anything over 100 grams would still be a significant player. These days the number of "nobody's" being busted in this town with 100 grams plus is just astonishing. Today the big players are not only dealing in kilos (which was virtually unheard of in Perth 10 years ago) but often when things go bad for them, the authorities are seizing upwards of 10 to 20kgs at a time. Yet despite this, the drug just keeps on coming.
 
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In nations like the Philippines, Cambodia, Thailand, Laos and Myanmar (Burma) it has destroyed countless families, seriously ripped the economy to shreds and cultural landscape as well. To imagine it will be different in Australia is to be naive at best.
 
The man charged with eradicating ice in Victoria wants to decriminalise it

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THE head of a taskforce charged with combating ‘ice’ wants it to be considered for decriminalisation.
Police Senior Sergeant Tony Francis from Geelong, is tasked with eradicating what Tony Abbott has called a “deadly scourge” in the Australian community.
But he believed there needed to be a different approach.

“The idea is so radical it might just work,” Mr Francis told the Geelong Advertiser. “We need to have a proper debate about this, without the discussion being hijacked by self-interested groups.
“We need to have the conversation.”

It stands in stark contrast to the tough rhetoric of the government, but Mr Francis was far from the only one championing the idea.
John Rogerson, CEO of the Australian Drug Foundation, praised Mr Francis for taking a “gutsy” stance.
“The most important thing is we have to have the conversation,” he told news.com.au
“Good on Tony for raising the issue.”

The current government has taken a strong public approach to the growing use of the drug but some, such as former Victorian police commissioner Ken Lay, believe authorities are not going to be able to arrest their way out of the problem.
“The reality is it doesn’t work that well,” Mr Rogerson said. “The Prime Minster is just reflecting what people in the community think works.”

For him, it’s as a health issue and not a criminal one. He would like to see a policy designed to help users of the drug and punish those who produce and traffic it.
Mr Rogerson doesn’t think the Australian public is ready for a conversation about decriminalising methamphetamine but is hopeful it will happen soon. He points to other countries such as Portugal, which has had success with decriminalisation and hopes Australia will adopt a more evidence-based approach.

“When your police are telling you it’s not the most effective way, you have to listen to them,” he said.
Others in the field have expressed a similar desire to shift the focus from criminality to the health concerns of those using ice.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/he...decriminalise-it/story-fneuzlbd-1227518374530
 
Would legalised ice prevent long term meth psychosis or violent behaviour? These appear to be the bigger problem than increase in robberies. Prisons are not being filled with posession charges rather violent acts committed under the influence

These current problems exist because purity and availability have increased. Is there really much benefit from introducing a meth maintainence programme?
 
I tend to think not. Treating meth addiction like heroin or alcohol addiction doesn't seem to work.
I think if people were allowed to use other substances (besides tobacco and alcohol) that weren't acquired via black market sources, the tendency towards methamphetamine use would be tempered, at least to some extent.

Obviously drugs like cannabis can also be harmful for some individuals psychologically - but from what i've seen (and what people very close to me see in the Emergency Department) it is nowhere near as volatile a substance in regard to users' mental health, and it is much more widely used.

As the addiction mechanism for amphetamine is completely different to physical dependence on opiates, i dont see the same maintenance model as being helpful - especially for already troubled/psychotic/violent users.
 
Firstly i don't believe Methamphetamine causes psychosis. What it causes is a lack of sleep. People who have been awake for several days, irrespective of whether they take ice or not will invariably go into a psychosis if they do it constantly and without respite.

Methamphetamine isn't particularly toxic to organs. Its not cariogenic like alcohol and won't cause kidney or liver failure after chronic use. The ROA is however important as is the purity. If users simply injected the drug (as opposed to smoking it) in a clean controlled environment, under supervision and were given education and support about how to deal with stress and mental health issues then its quite likely the violence that is associated with Methamphetamine would be greatly reduced.

Would legalised ice prevent long term meth psychosis or violent behaviour? These appear to be the bigger problem than increase in robberies. Prisons are not being filled with posession charges rather violent acts committed under the influence. These current problems exist because purity and availability have increased. Is there really much benefit from introducing a meth maintenance programme?

The problem with the word legislation is that people think it would be a free for all if it became legal.

I would argue that legislation means regulation and this is something we're sorely missing with drugs. The problem is that anyone, irrespective of their financial, family and emotional state can gain access to powerful substances that can enable people to create enormous harm. The problem is that people blame the drug when the real root cause are the problems in the person's life that compelled them to get high.

Methamphetamine should be available from the clinics that are already distributing methadone and suboxone. Users would be required to register for a program. Users would be asssesed as to their functionality. Dysfunctional users, with poor housing, employment and criminal/legal statuses should be required to attend daily to dose whilst functional users would be given takeaway doses after the clinic had evidence that you could safely take meth.

Users with violent mental health issues would continue to be dosed but in a controlled environment which would definitely reduced the likelihood of violence.

I have a relative who is a ice fiend and is doing several years for attacking police and with the intent of causing grievous bodily harm all whilst in the middle of a Methamphetamine associated psychosis. The problem was that he was in the middle of a particularly bad break up with his partner. They were fighting constantly and he had pre-existing mental health issues.

Because of the relationship problems he was using Methamphetamine and crack frequently and because he was high he wasn't taking his meds. After several days of not sleeping, drinking like a fish, and using Methamphetamine the fighting got violent. When the cops arrived he charged at them with a weapon.

The thing is that the police and time served will not have motivated him to stop using. I know the moment the idiot is released he is going to get high. He can't help himself.

The money we've wasted on police, lawyers, judges and prisons could have been spent on putting him on a program where he could dose on his drug of choice in a safe and controlled environment, where he would be required to take his meds and get regular sleep if he wanted to keep getting dosed. A well funded resourced drug management centre could give him the life skills and help to deal with interpersonal problems.

As we've seen by the evidence in countries that give heroin out these centres have helped people immensely, with large numbers choosing to quit using.

Throwing them into prison simply doesn't work.
 
Perhaps if they can't deal with personal issues in a non violent way acceptable by society they should stay away from powerful stimulants. The thing is you can make all the excuses in the world, but the violence that is created in these people is difficult to predict or control. The number of people who get carried away with meth and cause trouble is a minority, the same minority who would likely still source their speed from a black market if faced with legal restrictions on how or when they could use it.

Rather than decriminalizing meth I'd suggest legalizing weed. It won't completely eliminate the market for meth but would scratch the itch for a large number of drug users.
 
good post chugs.
i definitely agree that prison does nothing to solve any of the problems associated with methamphetamine in the community.
Personally i think good counselling and support services are a much better investment than any of the reactionary crap being peddled by certain politicians and law enforcement people in Australia at the moment (namely imposing involuntary detox/rehab on users) - which sounds like an absolute waste of time and money - as we all know people that aren't ready to quit are highly unlikely to do so.
I also agree that regulation is a far better option than what is currently taking place - completely unregulated use with minimal education or quality control.
I honestly don't know if meth/amphetamine can be used in a regular fashion with any safety; but there is obviously a lot that can be done to reduce harm (which is sadly absent from so much of the discussion nationally regarding the "meth problem").
 
Unless you are a big time dealer/importer you won't be sent to prison because you are caught using ice. You are usually sent after you cave in your ex partners face with a brick on a stim binge.
 
^Or assault medical staff as someone related in the AusDD methamphetamine thread recently.
I never got violent from using meth (way back when) - nor did any of my friends, but it still happens with disturbing regularity.
Same goes for booze though; i blame the user, not the drug.
Acknowledging that some people are prone to violence or mental illness doesnt sell as many newspapers as a good ol' fashioned drug scare. Prohibition's bread and butter is fear and misinformation; it's a fucking huge industry.
 
I blame the user too. No matter what drug you take you need to be held responsible for your actions. There is no escaping that some drugs cause more mayhem than others though.
 
The 90's are looking better as we go forward all the time. Good pills, hash, weaker meth that people didnt sit around smoking 24/7 and then wigging out after a 5 day bender.
 
Would legalised ice prevent long term meth psychosis or violent behaviour? These appear to be the bigger problem than increase in robberies. Prisons are not being filled with posession charges rather violent acts committed under the influence

These current problems exist because purity and availability have increased. Is there really much benefit from introducing a meth maintainence programme?

St Vincents in Sydney has been running a methamphetamine substitution program with dexamphetamine for a number of years so far. It's been successful enough that it's no longer a trial.

It has really strict admittance criteria and the aim is reduction to abstinence, rather than maintenance, but that can be appropriate for a lot of people whose use is negatively affecting their lives.
 
That sounds more like a medically supervised taper than a maintenance programme. I'd imagine this would be much more successful than any cold turkey rehab.
 
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