RCs The Ethylphenidate (Ethyl phenyl(piperidin-2-yl)acetate) Megathread V2

[pbuilder]

For me I don't get stim dick, I have no problem getting an erection however trying to pass any fluids is hard, especially trying to take a piss. It comes out (although I have to really push) and I haven't meansured lol but no more then 50ml comes out and stops, feels like something is pushing it back or its blocked, I can only assume its Vasoconstriction showing its nasty side. The whole process then starts again until im empty. Trying to ejaculate is exactly the same but due to sperm (well mine anyways) being thicker it kinda hurts cos it wants to come out but can't. When you manage to release, boy does it feel good. I can only assume thats why people say they have really good orgasms with it.

I get the same thing, but from poppy tea (and I'm assuming all opiates, although it didn't occur from codeine but codeine is a weak one). Even if I have to take a huge piss, right as it is about to come out, it feels like something pushes it back. I've read that with opiates it is caused by muscle relaxation, so the valve won't open or something lol. With stims though, I'm not sure what would cause that.

 

[mozzer]

anxieties noted, and there are a fair few re EPH, my main worry about using it is that i find it too easy to use......oh feel a bit hungover etc, just a quick line, then the whole day has gone by sneaking lines here and there. It DEFINITLEY makes me less warm, sensitive to those I care about and makes me more selfish. It definitely needs well disciplined use which is very difficult. I know binges leave me grumpy for a few days after, which many will testify to...and its not really my character so it can impact on your wider relationships.

 

[lynx2051]

It DEFINITLEY makes me less warm, sensitive to those I care about and makes me more selfish.

That's odd. If I take EPH alone I can get quite selfish, but talking to girls I become very empathetic.

 

[tri]

Just registered here to chime in with a bit of HR. Nothing which havnt been said, but another voice on the concern wont hurt.

Even tho the initial nasal pain of this drug was very manageble(nothing compared to 2c-b), i noticed very unpleasant side effects in the nose afterwards.

Shortly after insuflation(15-20mg), nose turned a bit dry and almost congested. Congestion relieved after half an hour or so. With redosages, 3-4 times, about same size over 6 hours, the side effects was the same, only the drying got worse.
Next day after i got some sleep(12Hours approx after last dosage), nose was congested. Nasal Mucus was no longer mucus, very dry, sticking to every side of the nose, kinda of bloody and some of it hard and painful to remove. Still now, 48H after last dosage, nose is still not back to normal, dry, sore, a bit bloody and prone to congestion, seems kinda wrecked.

I would recommend not snorting it, it seems too hard on ones nose (even tho my dosages was not that heavy). If you do take to snorting it, crush the powder as fine as possible, wet your nose beforehand and wash it afterwards. This will minimize sideeffects, but not eliminate them.

Im a bit saddened by the fact that i will have to take it orally in the future. When compared to pure amphetamine and RC-purity Pentedrone in roughly equal dosages, EPH just brings too much trouble on the nose.

Edited

 

[tricomb]

^we do not use SWIM or any variations thereof including my rat. Please edit your post accordingly and review the BLUA and OD Guidelines as you agreed to upon creation of your account. Thankyou and welcome to Bluelight.

 

[i are spectre]

I find this better than adderall or ritalin, for studying. I don't get the sweats and all these other side effects that people speak of.
I honestly think you are taking doing far too much of the compound, at once.

For people who find it jittery, uncomfortable, etc...
Take less, sublingually, throughout the day, after mouthwash... Literally sprinkle the smallest amount on your palm or whatever (wash yer hands!) and then push it down under the tongue. Rinse and repeat every 3-4 hours.



What the hell would happen if there was an isopropyl group instead... vinyl group... cyclopropyl...? ...halogen...?



I recently read that about 60% of methylphenidate (ritalin) is converted into its acid, RA... "phenidate" or ritalinic acid... and that has profound effects alone on dopamine reuptake (and NE). That's why I am guessing I like the ethyl ester because the % conversion to RA is smaller... Thus less NE and more dopamine lingering...

Harder and harder to come by, if you're in the USA (along with many northern european countries, besides UK).

 

[missimoo]

ive used this a few times now. usually turns into a bit of a binge, but not for days, just maybe a evening when i promised myself it would only be "one or two bumps".

my question is this:

1) nausea: when i take this. i will be REALLY sick. i lot of drugs make me sick, but this makes me vomit afer the first line or two for hours. has anyone else had this problem? once ive been sick enough to have completely empty stomach i can take it without being sick again. i never take this first thing, so i always have a full stomach. should i avoid food first? is it an allergy? i have mild IBS. maybe ETH makes it worse? anyone else suffer vomiting?

2) nose damage. ive had a hammering recently with ETH and a couple of other RCs. including too much mxe. but this leaves me with bloody nose and blocked for a few days. my nose bleeds nearly all the time at the moment. i took coke for years without so much damage to nose (not used for years). the crystal ETH and a couple of experiemnts with another crystal substance has left me with daily nose bleeds and pain. what worries me is not this, as i can see the drug use has done this and i need a break. but that my top gums REALLY HURT> they are a bit inflamed, i cant tell if it is gum disease or linked to my nose. its not at the bottom of the gum by the teeth as i would think gum disease is...i done bleed cleaning teeth, but it is red sore at the top, and painful...could this be inflamation linked to nose damage?

i have tried the powder version of this too - i found the vomiting the same. and the pain.

i have tried this oral once, in a cap, but with a insuffated dose so not sure about the difference between ROA's does anyone else dose orally and whats the difference?

EDIT: re posts above. i agree about the mucus after use, its very thick. often bloody. get very blocked sinus's for days after. i take mxe too regularly with no similar problems. as said, the powder is as painful as the crystal..even with the crystal WELL CRUSHED (still not possible to make it as fine as the powder)

 

[crazycatman]

I only use it orally (crystal version) and never had any nausea. Or most other side effects that people complain about. Just more sweating and a higher heart rate (but still bellow 100). Alone it's a great study aid, with a little etizolam or alcohol it's also great for socializing - makes you much more confident and talkative.

 

[Morkin]

Had a good experience with 100mgs in water. Hours of energy. Going to do the same dose for a rave this saturday.

 

[Somberlain]

maybe i have to stop with this stuff just because of its aggressive nature regardless what roa i use.

nose is fucked, not really congested, but hurting, dry, bloody and even small bumps are really painful now. and i really take care of it. cleaning with this special salty/mineral water stuff, using nasal sprays (only the ones with salt water and somtimes the version that has dexpanthenol and/or camomille besides the salt water), some dexpanthenol stuff to put in there at night sometimes and also tried good olive oil. but it just doesn't help much anymore.

orally just is crappy for me. i get more side effects and get cramps and somtimes diarrhea.

rectal works. not every time, it's a bit of hit/miss with that route, but i don't get any irritation at all from the diluted stuff. but i read somewhere (maybe in the older version of this thread, don't know) that even if you don't feel any irritation that it still will cause damage over time, and damage in that area can be even more unpleasent than in the nose i imagine.

sucks.

 

[Tony Williams]

I used eth daily since may, I quit it on and off. it's good snorted hurts like fuck. Now today I did CONCERTA (MPH) and I liked it better it's a bit stronger but I can move from task to task easy while ETH I am more brain dead.I need 0.001 scales so can mg for mg.

 

[DubNaut]

definitely lacks focus, no good for the nosey
when i take it orally, i can't help but still snort some
interested in pursuing rectal

 

[Somberlain]

i found rectal eth to be kind of strange for me. sometimes i notice some effects really fast, like a few minutes after administration. but most of the time it really takes a while and seems to be quite gentle at first and makes it easy to "overdose" because it's not really pleasing enough but a few hours later maybe the last dose was too much and it gets nasty. also snorting makes me sweat and kind of warm in contrast to rectal, where i just get cold and really feel the massive vasoconstriction. maybe not the way to go for me, it's just too unpredictable.

other question: is it possible that antidepressants cause kind of a high tolerance against stimulants? years ago when i took stimulants (amphetamines, mph, coke, etc.) i was really quite sensible to them and my doses were really small. now i had a long break from any stimulants and began taking 2 antidepressants a while ago and with eth, i seem to need about double the dose that most other people need for same effects (and before i needed like half the dose or less from any stimulant).

 

[Morkin]

I've never tried rectal admin. Do you use an enema first?

 

[Somberlain]

yeah, if i think it is useful (meaning if i didn't empty my bowels right before anyway) i do. i make sure there's nothing that could get in the way of absorption, otherwise this unpredictable reaction to it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[stratofortress]

I've been awake almost 24 hours hopped up on this stuff, so excuse any mistakes or deviations from the point I'm trying to make. Anyway I'd like to contribute 2 points to the discussion: the first regarding ROA; the second requesting any informed input over some concerns I've developed over neurotoxicity.

So, it seems that a lot of posts over the past 3 pages have been made by users seeking a less painful ROA than nasal, but without the loss of rapid onset that occurs with oral dosing. My personal favourite method to administer the drug is to use a small bottle with a dropper top (something like an emptied out eye drop bottle would be ideal), mixing up a solution of water and EPH to your desired strength (obviously volume of bottle will be a considering factor here - I'm not going to be too condescending and explain every little step - just use your judgement. I will say one thing though...I've found that this ROA is more economical than any others i've tried - a little goes a long way). Now comes the tricky part of getting the solution into the dropper bottle thingie. A syringe would be ideal. So would a pipette. Use your imagination. I seem to remember just reaming the hole until it was wide enough to pour the solution in.

Good golly you can tell I'm stimmed. Could've summed that whole mess up in one line: take empty eye dropper bottle, make EPH/water solution, add to dropper.

I'd only bother squirting this stuff into your nose. I did try to rectally administer a dose from an almost empty dropper, but you just can't get it in far enough to reach the rectal membrane.

But yer, this is my preferred method of use if i'm using EPH: the water solution doesn't sting as much as snorted powder; it doesn't clump up your nostrils with crap; the liquid solution seems able to get to the membrane a lot more effectively than snorted powder (this is conjecture based upon the observations that it takes less EPH to get a buzz, and the rush comes on more quickly using this ROA as opposed to 'dry snorting'). Also, you can take a hit in public without looking too suspect - you're just a guy with bad sinus pain taking his meds.

I'd wager this is also a healthier method of taking EPH. Being liquid, it's less prone to stick to the inside of your nostrils and fuck them up. Plus you wash your nose out each time you dose. It does tickle a bit when it drips down your throat though. That's the only real downside I can think of.


Which leads me to the second issue I wanted to open to debate. I received an email from my Uncle, who knew I'd been using EPH and expressed his concern over the potential to cause neurological damage. The guy has a masters degree in organic chemistry from Cambridge, as well as a PhD from somewhere else. And I dropped out of the History course I was doing at Manchester....feels bad man. But yer I'm only mentioning this to let you judge whether he's qualified to make statements about chemicals with any credibility. This is what he said:


"Ethylphenidate might be legal, but that doesn't make it safe to take. It's such a new drug (dating from about 2010 I think) that there's no medical evidence of any longer term side effects. It interferes with dopamine production, which reminds me of a class of drugs related to MDMA that were used in the 1980s club scene. A significant number of people who used these drugs went on to develop a condition akin to Parkinson's Disease (which is also related to dopamine). You'd probably be safer using better established drugs for which there's a proper track record of safety. Still, hopefully that consideration will soon be a thing of the past."

Obviously some of that is common knowledge on a harm reduction site such as this one. We know we're taking a gamble when we use a new RC for which no studies can have been done into long term effects. But I think we take as educated a gamble as we can when we test these chems upon ourselves. Personally, I justify my use of EPH by considering that its mechanism of action is very similar to MPH (both are norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitors), a drug for which there have been conducted many studies into long term effects and has been deemed by medical science to be fairly safe.

So should this risk of long term damage by playing about too much with dopamine levels be taken seriously? Although both drugs are N-DRI's, they must surely act in different ways to some degree by which they prevent the re-uptake of dopamine due to their slightly different chemical make-up? Also, does anyone have any idea what these MDMA type drugs he mentioned are? I'll ask him anyway.

Shit's concerned me........

 

[Somberlain]

About the ROA you suggested: It certainly is better than just snorting the powder. I would only use it this way if i didn't have the problem that the liquid often goes too far and down the throat too soon. And after a while your throat can feel just as fucked up as your nose does from just snorting the powder. But it still remains a better method i think.

About the neurotoxicity thing: I was under the impression that the danger of developing parkinson's or other neurological damages from messing with your dopamine system comes mainly with drugs that are not "only" reuptake inhibitors, but also act as releasers or the ones that "switch" the direction the transporters work (something like that, i'm not a docter/chemist/biologist so please excuse the unprofessional language i have to use to make my point). I think i read somewhere that there is a risk for those things with drugs like methyphenidate, ethylphenidate, some antidepressant etc too, but that risk should be significantly smaller than with those other substanced that are not "only" reuptake inhibitors.
So, that's just what i know about this stuff and my knowledge is very limited and of course we don't know how ethylphenidate works exactly, so it's never "safe". But i think that the danger your uncle is talking about is more import for other substances.

Please correct me if i'm wrong - it's just an uneducated guess and i don't want anyone to feel "safe" about this drug.

edit: I would greatly appreciate any advice you could give me when it comes to getting that liquid into the nose without half of it just going straight through it to your throat. One option would be making an nasal spray instead of something that produces larger drops. Done that before with other substances and it works fine (fine is actually an understatement), but for that i would have to buy some nasal spray that doesn't come in a throw-away platic container which you can't even open without damaging it. And the ones that can be opened etc are usually the expensive ones. To make it short - i'm to lazy and don't wand to spend much money for some nasal spray. So if theres some trick to get drops of the liquid in there and not too far it would be great.

edit 2: Inspired by your post i just gave it another chance and made a liquid and applied it very careful. Still got to the throat and stuff, but i have to say that the difference to normal snorting is shocking if your nose is fucked up from it. Because now i realise that the absorption from snorting powder with my damaged nose is just shitty. With the liquid i really just need half the dose i would normally need, maybe even less. And it kicks in way faster. Arrrgh, if i could just eliminate the throat-problem this would be by far the best method. But i already know that my throat will feel like shit and i will regret this when i finished the liquid.

 

[stratofortress]

Hahah, I just came on here to post the counterargument to my uncle's claims, thinking it would provide some insight into EPH toxicity, but i see you beat me to it. Ah here it is anyway:

Your comments on ethylphenidate interested me, and the following is not an attempt to justify my drug use, I just wondered what your thoughts on the matter were. You mentioned that MDMA analogues caused dopaminergic neurodegenerative diseases (I'll look like a fool for using such words if that's not what you meant by 'parkinson's-like' diseases...). MDMA is an amphetamine, and I imagine the analogues you spoke of were amphetamine analogues. Now if i've understood this correctly, amphetamines act on dopamine by causing the brain to *release* more dopamine, which is what can lead to 'dopaminergic stress'.

Ethylphenidate (EPH), like Methylphenidate, also plays with dopamine levels in the brain, but in a different way to that of amphetamines. They belong to the Norepinephrine-Dopamine Reuptake Inhibitor class of chemicals, so rather than actively causing the release of excess dopamine, they instead increase brain dopamine levels by preventing reuptake of the neurotransmitters whilst still active by bonding to and blocking off the reuptake sites. Sorry I'm sure you know all this but it makes me feel clever writing scientific words (the story i wrote yesterday is in the form of a medical article - i'll upload it to my blog after this).

Amphetamine drugs and their analogues are suspected to cause neurodegenerative diseases (in habitual users? infrequent users?) as a result of forcing the brain to produce more dopamine than is good for it: dopaminergic stress. NDRI's such as EPH do not force the brain to produce more dopamine; rather, they prevent reuptake of normal amounts of dopamine, causing a build up of dopamine (and adrenaline) in the brain, producing stimulation in a different manner to amphetamines.

Methylphenidate is the most commonly prescribed NDRI, and it would seem that its effects have been studied and medical science has deemed it a drug with a fairly low potential for neurotoxicity. Although EPH isn't structurally identical to MPH, and won't have exactly the same effect on the brain as MPH, it is nevertheless a drug of the same type, so it wouldn't be too absurd to predict that it will have the same potential for causing brain damage.

Conclusion - EPH is not an amphetamine. Amphetamines, due to causing dopaminergic stress in the brain of the user, are suspected of causing brain damage long term. NDRI's are not suspected of causing long term brain damage as they put much less stress on the brain's neurotransmitter system. QED - if you're going to take a stimulant, it's probably safer (as far as current medical science knows) to take an NDRI than an amphetamine based drug.

OK now tell me why I'm wrong. And by the way, I still think taking substances upon which no research has been conducted is a psychotropic Russian roulette. I'm not saying 'EPH is safe therefore I will buy more of it'. However, out of all the stimulant RC's on the market, many of which are amphetamine analogues, I'd put my money on ethylphenidate being the least neurotoxic.

Somberlain: I'm no scientist either, so if you're wrong, I'm also wrong, so would be in no position to correct you heh.

That nasal spray idea had never occurred to me, but I think that would be a great improvement on the eye drop bottle method.

I think i can answer your question re: dripping. Went out this morning to the local corner shop trying to find a suitable bottle. The closest thing to my previous one was a glass 'olbas oil' bottle. I hardly need to tell you it didn't work well at all. First use and a torrent of EPH water shot down my throat, outta my mouth...impossible to moderate the flow.

MateriaI is key, as i learned today. It's got to be flexible enough to let you moderate the pressure you're squeezing with (this sound so absurd). I think the ideal bottle is a squeezable plastic one, which is filled no more than half way, so that the air in the bottle acts almost as a propellant, forcing a mist of solution to the back of the nose. Still, I think your nasal spray idea would work even better.

 

[Somberlain]

I'm very interested in your uncle's response to "our" argument - so i would greatly appreciate if you could post again when/if he answers.

I just came across something that works better for me than the eye drop bottles etc. A small bottle that resembles normal bottles for liquid medications but instead of the drop-thingy at the top, it has some sort of "tube" (damn, when i'm stimmed, my english gets even worse - always get word finding problems on stuff like this and in a foreign language it's even worse) because it wasn't for a liquid - it contained small pellets ("globuli", some homeopathic crap - don't ask why i have something like this...) and the "tube" made it easy to take them out one at a time. So, when you fill liquid in there, it doesn't just come out. You have to tap the bottle a bit at the end with your fingers to make one drop come out. And that works great for me. I just put it in my nose one drop at a time and then inhale extremly careful so i get this single drop exactly where i want it. Doesn't work all the time, sometimes it goes through there no matter how careful i am, but it works really good. So if anyone has stuff like that (don't even know if homeopathy is a big thing in the usa or if they have such bottles), it works.

But nevertheless... i should just move my lazy ass and get the few bucks together for a decent nasal spray-bottle. Because if you're doing the liquid-thingy, there's just nothing better imo.

By the way: I hate myself for never being completely satisfied with methods like this. Because i just love snorting lines. It is so incredibly stupid. Maybe it has something to do with all the great memories that i connect with snorting (and that sometimes seem to come back and bring some of the good feelings with them when i snort smth) for example the first time snorting good coke etc. I used to snort Oxys all the time just because it worked. The effects weren't much better, lasted shorter and all in all it was wasting good oxy. But if i have something that works when snorted, i snort it. Fuck me.

 

[stratofortress]

Sure I'll let you know his response. He'll probably find some glaring flaw in the logic and make me feel like an idiot.

Glad you found a bottle that works for you. Myself, I've just been to asda (needed cat food, just in case you were wondering), and as I lazily made my way to the checkouts through the personal hygiene products aisle, my eye by chance alighted on the eye drops. £1.99. Works so much better than that glass bottle..lord what was I thinking.

woops gotta be off my drug abuse team worker is here. Oh christ i just agreed to go into residential rehab for 6 months in a few weeks. only a few weeks left to use drugs. any suggestions?