The EADD Metathread - Let's talk about how we can improve EADD

[StoneHappyMonday]

Stee - thx, appreciated.

Sadie - appreciated you took the time to read. Not surprised nobody else will or that I feel I'm wasting my time. But just for you. To reiterate.

The infraction system is shit, for reasons I stated quite clearly above. Wanna start a new alt? Threaten to chop me into little pieces? Nil points.

I believe in free speech. REAL fucking Voltaire free speech. I'm an anarchist. Say what you like, I'll defend your right to say it. With two exceptions. Both of which are MISUSE of the forum.

1) Spammers trying to sell wares. Get to fuck.

2) Fascists trying to stir hatred without any pretence (see CEP) of debate. Shoot them.

Banning people on Urban75 relies first on users policing the site and then on a much smaller collective of the overblown mod population (and admins) on BL who seem to have power complexes. Urban, for its faults, and probably because of its lesser numbers (and therefore less importance attached to being) of mods, seems to make less, and better, decisions. Ever seen a horse built by committee? It's called a camel.

I've been a member here for nigh on 15 years. No fucker outside of a normal poster (and the VERY occasional mod/smod) has ever taken a blind bit of notice of what I say. I'm seen as an annoyance (check Ali's last post about me, check the shit I went through getting banned for saying to a mod "don't make me laugh")

And yet I stay. And keep trying.

It's ok. I'm the fucking idiot here, not you.

 

[Sadie]

Sounds idealistic but they seem to make things work.

You're not the idiot. I'm ignorant. I might join to see how things go. It'd be nice to see how the other half works. No harm no foul. Ja?

If you don't grow then you remain stagnant and toxic. People and communities evolve. This is the point.

 

[Sprout]

Stee - thx, appreciated.

Sadie - appreciated you took the time to read. Not surprised nobody else will or that I feel I'm wasting my time. But just for you. To reiterate.

The infraction system is shit, for reasons I stated quite clearly above. Wanna start a new alt? Threaten to chop me into little pieces? Nil points.

I believe in free speech. REAL fucking Voltaire free speech. I'm an anarchist. Say what you like, I'll defend your right to say it. With two exceptions. Both of which are MISUSE of the forum.

1) Spammers trying to sell wares. Get to fuck.

2) Fascists trying to stir hatred without any pretence (see CEP) of debate. Shoot them.

Banning people on Urban75 relies first on users policing the site and then on a much smaller collective of the overblown mod population (and admins) on BL who seem to have power complexes. Urban, for its faults, and probably because of its lesser numbers (and therefore less importance attached to being) of mods, seems to make less, and better, decisions. Ever seen a horse built by committee? It's called a camel.

I've been a member here for nigh on 15 years. No fucker outside of a normal poster (and the VERY occasional mod/smod) has ever taken a blind bit of notice of what I say. I'm seen as an annoyance (check Ali's last post about me, check the shit I went through getting banned for saying to a mod "don't make me laugh")

And yet I stay. And keep trying.

It's ok. I'm the fucking idiot here, not you.

FTR: 95% of words you fear are ignored are actually agreed with, by myself at least.
To keep it short, as I'm sure Don and Stee can attest to - staffing this place is less voiding extraneous content and more having a pitchfork mob steal your grannie's necklace as punishment for agreeing with them and doing everything to support their cause behind a net curtain.

And then they spit in your eye.
For the lulz.

 

[Josh]

You know what would massively improve BL. A decent emoticon pack. The existing one is so dated and a couple of staples such as and look way more aggro than they should, whenever I forget this and use them I come back to my post later and realise it looks way more arsey than I intended.

 

[One Thousand Words]

SHM could do with this emoticon

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

SHM could do with this emoticon

Can't disagree, you're right. But I was asked for suggestions to improve things and have more than once simply been accused of moaning with no constructive solution so I thought I'd try.

I'll beat the horse one more time. I was a member of this site for ten years without an infraction. Indeed, the only people banned in EADD were spammers and one Nazi who came along bored because Stormfront was down for the day. Then, in a very short period, nearly all down to Sammy, I built up a Kray-like criminal record and reputation to match. Yeah, I know what staff files say about me.

I can't help thinking a lot of this also coincided with BL going corporate, the very thing XTCXTC warned against. Once Alan died, I think the ethos of the place changed and certainly not in a way he would have been proud of. Someone (Evey actually) raised an old thread recently from years ago where there were arguments between posters and admin about splitting EADD. It came to nothing. But there were posts in that thread where XTCXTC specifically warned against the corporatising of Bluelight.

Dead horse flogged. That points system, along with a few mod and admin egos, needs to go. It never will.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Just my 2 pence for what it's worth; I believe that when lengthy or permanent bans are handed out that the affected person should be given the opportunity to make the case for their defense, if they wish to do so. Sometimes the circumstances may have been due to a simple misunderstanding, or extenuating personal circumstances, or something that happened out of sight which prompted w/e happened.

It's even possible that the users account may have been hacked, i mean i would be very surprised if i saw someone with a clean sheet suddenly start making loads of offensive, aggressive, racist and sexist posts.

 

[Sadie]

You can't blame the current mod team for how you were treated in the past by a banned ex-mod.

I do feel for you in the fact that IMO things should not have gotten to that point between the pair of you.

I'm only asking that you give me a chance. I can't say to anyone that I can change things. I can only offer an ear and logical discussion. We cannot change the whole site but if there are certain issues that members are un happy with then why not address them. At the very least issues will have been publicly brought to attention.

Not everything can be fixed to suit one member but no harm comes from discussion.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

You can't blame the current mod team for how you were treated in the past by a banned ex-mod.

I have no idea where that comes from because that's never what I have said. When I refer to mods egos, I am talking BL-wide, not EADD. I've had no serious aggravation with any EADD mod since Sammy left.

The mod who gave me a point for "don't make me laugh" was Cashflow Donkey in CEP. He sent me an apology. He disappeared from mod duties for about six months until recently. But that point still stands and is the most ridiculous point I've ever seen given out other than Sammy banning Farmaz for the Cornish joke.

But really, I've had enough. I will never be the change here. And OTW is correct about that emoticon.

 

[Sadie]

I have no idea where that comes from because that's never what I have said. When I refer to mods egos, I am talking BL-wide, not EADD. I've had no serious aggravation with any EADD mod since Sammy left.

The mod who gave me a point for "don't make me laugh" was Cashflow Donkey in CEP. He sent me an apology. He disappeared from mod duties for about six months until recently. But that point still stands and is the most ridiculous point I've ever seen given out other than Sammy banning Farmaz for the Cornish joke.

But really, I've had enough. I will never be the change here. And OTW is correct about that emoticon.

That's what I gleamed from what you'd said

I was a member of this site for ten years without an infraction. Indeed, the only people banned in EADD were spammers and one Nazi who came along bored because Stormfront was down for the day. Then, in a very short period, nearly all down to Sammy, I built up a Kray-like criminal record and reputation to match.

Again, I ask you on various ways or changes you'd like to see within EADD to make it a better place for all members involved.

I can't change the points system but I agree with the point you make. It's quite a valid one. I agree with it in certain aspects but not all. I'll admit it could do with some tweaking sure. What's the other option, to go back to the old system where disciplinary action is at the moderators discretion? Or is it that you're wanting an un-moderated forum. I'm afraid that's not going to happen with this site. It is what it is. Obviously there is always room for change but BL is a moderated site.

So, what other changes would you suggest that would be of benefit of ALL members ( this includes Staff )

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

*Sigh* At least you're engaging in debate, I'll give you that.

I am not asking for an unmoderated forum. Every time a mod says that, like its the only alternative, kinda pisses me off. Can you please see a shade of grey?

I would request, if anyone is listening, that if we are absolutely never going to change the points infraction system that we then at least exercise more discretion, leniency and consistency. When Sid got banned (who we both freely admit are no friends of each other, though that doesn't stop us having a certain respect for each other's knowledge) I clearly said;

Whatever happened to 'having a word'?

The mods have become too fond of the whip over the last few years. If the cane is all you've got, you've already lost the battle.

It's ridiculous people are getting warnings or even points for simply mentioning Eveys name. My feeling is this is something being dictated from higher up. It's stupid. Equally stupid is pretending to Evey that she is welcome here and then banning her again at the first slightest opportunity found. For something in the lounge ffs! Why do we even call it the lounge? It's a lavatory. That's why we have the term 'lounge rats'. Because rats hang out in sewers.

I digress. Discretion, leniency, consistency. If someone ignores repeated warnings and is a complete pain in the arse then sure, fuck them off for good, no appeal.

I have never argued for an unmoderated board. But I'd sure be a lot happier letting the members have more say, the mods less, though the smods and admin the ultimate word. But only in combination with everything I've written above.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

@SHM

In your post above you have quoted "Whatever happened to 'having a word'?"

I don't know who you're quoting, but I can assure you that although I have never committed an 'official infraction', there have been times where the mods have had to 'have a word' with me - which I appreciate and take on the chin, henceforth shutting my gob. FWIW, I don't believe the current system is too bad really - it may not be perfect, but then, what is?

 

[Sadie]

*sigh*??? Do not use typed exasperations with me Mr. SHM! JK, you know you can do what you like with me :D

Right, I see your point and I'll have to agree with you to a certain extent that it is a very valid one. One that I cannot enforce others to take but at least one that I myself can work on in the future. That's all I can promise you is that I'll look at myself for the change you seek.

As you know we ( as mods ) cannot discuss individual cases. Nor should we. IMO that's simply morally wrong to discuss things about another member to which we may possibly be privy to more information. Thats not fair no matter how you slice it.

What happens in the lounge is well, down to those who use and moderate the Lounge. That has nothing to do with EADD. It as always been known and said that you enter the lounge at your own peril.

As for not mentioning a certain member ( Evey in this case ) There was an agreement in place already. That agreement was broken. It's quite simple. Again, I digress as I cannot talk about individuals. No one is pretending she is welcome or not welcome.


So, in the future I can only promise you that I will do my best to practice Discretion, Leniency and consistency. Believe it or not, we're more lenient than most give us credit for. We're quite discreet when it comes to individuals. Consistency, well you've got me on that one I guess. No human is ever 100% consistent. Though we may try our best. Nothing wrong with trying to improve ones self really.

Sorry for the quick reply, I'm just heading out the door and running rather late. I just thought I'd rather reply to you somewhat now rather than later. You know I personally value your opinion. I didn't want to leave you hanging.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

*sigh*??? Do not use typed exasperations with me Mr. SHM! JK, you know you can do what you like with me :D

You duurty hussy...

Mah kind o' woman...

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

First, cheers Sadie for the debate, appreciated.

@SHM

In your post above you have quoted "Whatever happened to 'having a word'?"

I don't know who you're quoting, but I can assure you that although I have never committed an 'official infraction', there have been times where the mods have had to 'have a word' with me - which I appreciate and take on the chin, henceforth shutting my gob. FWIW, I don't believe the current system is too bad really - it may not be perfect, but then, what is?

I'm quoting myself FUBAR. It wasn't just me who went ten years without infractions. Virtually everybody did. The worst offender I can think of in that time, Harry@Piekarnia, was even MADE A MOD as a strategy to help calm him down.

Of course no system is perfect. But at some point, and yes this happened after Alan Woods' death, this place became more corporate in nature with discipline and egos to match. It did used to be better, more tolerant and decisions were more often than not made that avoided the crap this forum has had to put up with over the last few years.

People didn't even get unapproved posts. The world didn't collapse.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

First, cheers Sadie for the debate, appreciated.




I'm quoting myself FUBAR. It wasn't just me who went ten years without infractions. Virtually everybody did. The worst offender I can think of in that time, Harry@Piekarnia, was even MADE A MOD as a strategy to help calm him down.

Of course no system is perfect. But at some point, and yes this happened after Alan Woods' death, this place became more corporate in nature with discipline and egos to match. It did used to be better, more tolerant and decisions were more often than not made that avoided the crap this forum has had to put up with over the last few years.

People didn't even get unapproved posts. The world didn't collapse.

I suspected that was your quote SHM, which is why I was trying to point out that our mods are more than willing to just have a 'quiet word' before things get out of hand. I respect them for that. I don't know how things were when you joined, and I don't believe an automated system is the best, but if everything is left to the discretion of the mods, then the system is open to being perverted by unscrupulous mods - as would seem to be your experience. Not having a dig mate, just trying to give an unbiased viewpoint

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

^

I suspect my horse is well beyond dead by now but I'm going to have one more go at explaining myself because I still think, from your reply, that I'm being misunderstood in places.

As far as our current mods go...my only complaint is the rapidly unapproved posts, which looks slightly ridiculous (to me) for just mentioning a name. And I think this is a diktat from above anyway.

I do not believe in unmoderated forums.

I used the words discretion, LENIENCY, and consistency.

I do not believe in leaving everything to the mods. Quite the opposite. Sure, let the admins/whoever have the final say. But many arguments in the past were sorted out amicably, or at least sorted out, by the posters themselves. Nobody had to call the police. Harry, who I mentioned previously, I think holds the record with me for calling each other cunt more times than anyone else in any debate. And you know what? When Harry left this place me and him were good friends.

This forum has always been modded more leniently than the more specialist forums. But something definitely changed and I think it came from on high. I've had enough apologies from ex-mods to know this is true.

Now fuck off with any more replies because I've a very dead horse to dispose of.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

^

I suspect my horse is well beyond dead by now but I'm going to have one more go at explaining myself because I still think, from your reply, that I'm being misunderstood in places.

As far as our current mods go...my only complaint is the rapidly unapproved posts, which looks slightly ridiculous (to me) for just mentioning a name. And I think this is a diktat from above anyway.

I do not believe in unmoderated forums.

I used the words discretion, LENIENCY, and consistency.

I do not believe in leaving everything to the mods. Quite the opposite. Sure, let the admins/whoever have the final say. But many arguments in the past were sorted out amicably, or at least sorted out, by the posters themselves. Nobody had to call the police. Harry, who I mentioned previously, I think holds the record with me for calling each other cunt more times than anyone else in any debate. And you know what? When Harry left this place me and him were good friends.

This forum has always been modded more leniently than the more specialist forums. But something definitely changed and I think it came from on high. I've had enough apologies from ex-mods to know this is true.

Now fuck off with any more replies because I've a very dead horse to dispose of.

Well do it quick, cos it will soon stink like a rancid cunt...

 

[Josh]

our mods are more than willing to just have a 'quiet word' before things get out of hand

Not really, several of us received warnings the other night when things were not in any way out of hand (in my opinion of course, but I think most would agree). I'd only quoted a post from elsewhere on the site too, not used any words of my own. Would have taken the exact same amount of effort to send me a PM, which would have had the exact same effect (of stopping me posting what was considered unacceptable), but not left me feeling like I'd violated some automated machine or something.

 

[consumer]

Not really, several of us received warnings the other night when things were not in any way out of hand (in my opinion of course, but I think most would agree). I'd only quoted a post from elsewhere on the site too, not used any words of my own. Would have taken the exact same amount of effort to send me a PM, which would have had the exact same effect (of stopping me posting what was considered unacceptable), but not left me feeling like I'd violated some automated machine or something.

I agree with what Josh is saying. Earlier i had received a quiet word from Shambles regarding some posts that were clearly of an abusive nature and i accepted that. The warning i received for the unnapproved posts on the night josh is referring to i did not agree with as nothing said was abusive. It was members explaining how they felt. I do however accept the official warning as i had received a previous quiet word ( not on the same day but concerning the same subject) and in the interest of a peaceful forum i understand why it was given. I dont agree with it or the posts being pulled but i accept that is the way the mods thought best to deal with it. I have no solution to offer on any of this. What i want to happen is not going to so i am just accepting it and moving on.