The drugs haven't messed you up. IT'S ALL IN YOUR HEAD.

[AA357]

Several times a week, people post threads about how psychedelics (usually acid or mushrooms) have 'messed them up' - that they don't feel the same and want to know when they will feel normal again.
The effects of these drugs are mostly psychological. Physiologically speaking, they are pretty much the safest recreational drugs you can take. They don't cause any physical damage and they don't actually cause mental illness (they can only exacerbate pre-existing mental illnesses).

I have had a bad trip on 300mcg acid before. It was the textbook bad trip - an overwhelming sense of fear and helplessness, tightness of the chest, difficulty breathing, wanting to vomit... I even lost control of my bladder. I took a severe panic attack that lasted about 30 minutes.

Two things I would strongly recommend:

1) Have a sedative on hand. I took a high dose of Valium, which calmed me down quickly and allowed me to enjoy the rest of my trip (I had a great night once that kicked in).

2) Move on. Identify the cause of your bad trip but don't dwell on it. My trainwreck trip was caused by a messy flat, so since then I have become more organized and diligent with my housework. The next day I cleaned my flat thoroughly, then went out and bought some plants and housewares.

Looking too much into this experience would have been exhausting and futile. LSD is a powerful emotional amplifier so it can make you get neurotic and flip out over minor shit.
It doesn't bother me that I flipped out because human beings are not perfect and the mind on psychedelics is a stupid and fragile thing. I forgive myself.

Since that incident I have tripped easily 50 times and I've never had a bad trip.

This game is not for the faint of heart. You have to be pretty self-accepting and mentally tough to be able to handle your psychedelics. The only cure for a bad trip is a nice big cup of Man The Fuck Up.

 

[Trying2Iso]

I don't think there's been enough research done on LSD to say it can or cannot cause PTSD, trigger mental illness, or have other negative lasting symptoms.
I haven't experienced this, but there are a large number of people who swear that their problems started post-LSD (tested LSD).
many threads on the subject here on BL.
There is no consensus on LSD triggering mental illness yet, but there is equally no real research.

 

[Transform]

Everything I experience is technically in my head. If my perception is that the sky is green, then the sky is green. Nothing is more real than what one experiences.

Personally I think if a person is in a state where they are able to take an oral sedative willingly, it's quite possibly not bad enough to need that sedative and the first resort should in fact be changing the setting.

 

[Trying2Iso]

Bad trips IMO are part of doing LSD> just like hangovers are part of drinking, and crashing is part of rolling.
Every drug has its drawbacks. (except maybe cannabis XD )
and it's your friends' jobs to help you and make you feel better during bad trips. If you don't have trustworthy friends maybe dont do LSD, because doing it alone there is always risk, even tho many seem to handle it fine.

 

[AA357]

I don't think there's been enough research done on LSD to say it can or cannot cause PTSD, trigger mental illness, or have other negative lasting symptoms.
I haven't experienced this, but there are a large number of people who swear that their problems started post-LSD (tested LSD).
many threads on the subject here on BL.
There is no consensus on LSD triggering mental illness yet, but there is equally no real research.

There is a big difference between psychological trauma and the psychiatric disorder that is PTSD.

PTSD:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posttraumatic_stress_disorder

Most people having experienced a traumatizing event will not develop PTSD. People who experience assault-based trauma are more likely to develop PTSD, as opposed to people who experience non-assault based trauma such as witnessing trauma, accidents, and fire events. Children are less likely to experience PTSD after trauma than adults, especially if they are under ten years of age. War veterans are commonly at risk for PTSD.

^^^It seems PTSD is something you need to have a predisposition for. First-hand experience with violence is the biggest cause. It seems the people most at risk for PTSD are domestic abuse victims and war veterans:

I mean: if the majority of battered wives, rape victims and war veterans never suffer from PTSD then I'm sure the risk of developing PTSD from psychedelics has to be pretty damn low. That bad trip I had was fucking horrible but I would much rather relive that experience than get raped FFS.

 

[AA357]

Personally I think if a person is in a state where they are able to take an oral sedative willingly, it's quite possibly not bad enough to need that sedative and the first resort should in fact be changing the setting.

What??? Have you ever heard of Xanax or Ativan? They were made for people who suffer panic attacks. A panic attack isn't the same thing as a psychotic episode... you're still lucid enough to know that you need to pop a benzo to calm yourself down.

And how the hell was I supposed to change the setting? I was in no fit state to clean my flat and it was raining heavily outside so I didn't fancy going out for a walk.

 

[Bagseed]

yet another account of AA357 imposing his own opinions on the experiences of others, of course not without stating that you just need to be self controlled and badass like himself.

you should probably try to be more open minded if you want to contribute here, at least in my opinion. all you do is bragging about how well you can handle psychedelics and how other people who have problems are just pussies. I nominate you the next Ismene.

 

[Trying2Iso]

There is a big difference between psychological trauma and the psychiatric disorder that is PTSD.

And yet PTSD is caused by psychological trauma... interesting...
lol

 

[AA357]

yet another account of AA357 imposing his own opinions on the experiences of others, of course not without stating that you just need to be self controlled and badass like himself.

you should probably try to be more open minded if you want to contribute here, at least in my opinion. all you do is bragging about how well you can handle psychedelics and how other people who have problems are just pussies. I nominate you the next Ismene.

No, I'm giving people valuable advice... it's a positive message for Christ's sake. What else can you tell someone who's had a bad trip other than 'get over it'???
If you have some better advice then please make a contribution to this thread.

And yet PTSD is caused by psychological trauma... interesting...
lol

I know. But that doesn't mean psychological trauma and PTSD are one and the same.

Feeling down all the time can cause anxiety or depression, but not everybody who feels down is suffering from anxiety or depression.

 

[Trying2Iso]

I know. But that doesn't mean psychological trauma and PTSD are one and the same.

Feeling down all the time can cause anxiety or depression, but not everybody who feels down is suffering from anxiety or depression.

Bad trips can cause psychological trauma, they can be scary as hell. Bad trips are no joke. Psychological trauma can cause PTSD.
So why couldn't bad trips cause PTSD?...

Also, feeling down all the time is one of the key symptoms of depression. Everyone feels down sometimes, but healthy people don't feel down ALL the time. If you feel persistently low mood, probably some form of depression, which can be caused by many different things.

 

[Bagseed]

No, I'm giving people valuable advice... it's a positive message for Christ's sake. What else can you tell someone who's had a bad trip other than 'get over it'???
If you have some better advice then please make a contribution to this thread.

you don't get my point, huh? I've told you before, all you do is make generalizations based on your own experiences, basically everything you say on here comes from an egocentric point of view, I never once saw you giving valuable advice.

and no, telling people with psychological crisis to "get over it" or "harden up" is not at all helpful.

 

[AA357]

Bad trips can cause psychological trauma, they can be scary as hell. Bad trips are no joke. Psychological trauma can cause PTSD.
So why couldn't bad trips cause PTSD?...

It could, but I think you would have to have a predispostion to anxiety or something really bad to happen to you during the trip to develop PTSD. How often do we hear about this happening?

Statistically; the people most at risk of developing PTSD are domestic abuse victims, rape victims and combat veterans. And don't forget that the majority of these people don't suffer from PTSD.
Now I know just as much as you how utterly terrifying and even physically painful a bad trip can be, but I bet it PALESin comparison to getting raped in the ass or watching your fellow soldier's head getting blown off on the battlefield.

Also, feeling down all the time is one of the key symptoms of depression. Everyone feels down sometimes, but healthy people don't feel down ALL the time. If you feel persistently low mood, probably some form of depression, which can be caused by many different things.

Sorry - I should have phrased that better. Yes, chronic low mood is a key symptom of depression. I actually meant feeling down all the time for just a few days; as I have seen happen to friends after a break-up or the death of a family member. They are not clinically depressed and after a few days they're back to normal.

Much like if you have a bad trip and you feel 'off' a couple of days after the experience, it's more likely to be minor psychological trauma than actual PTSD. People are quick to assume the worst.

 

[Trying2Iso]

It could, but I think you would have to have a predispostion to anxiety or something really bad to happen to you during the trip to develop PTSD. How often do we hear about this happening?

Statistically; the people most at risk of developing PTSD are domestic abuse victims, rape victims and combat veterans. And don't forget that the majority of these people don't suffer from PTSD.
Now I know just as much as you how utterly terrifying and even physically painful a bad trip can be, but I bet it PALESin comparison to getting raped in the ass or watching your fellow soldier's head getting blown off on the battlefield.

Actually PTSD is common from car accidents, animal attacks, natural disasters, witnesses of violent crimes, and pretty much anything else traumatic. It is not limited to those three causes as you say.
Also, could you cite a source for your assertion that the majority of rape victims and domestic abuse victims don't suffer from PTSD? (that's quite a bold statement, doctor)
And PTSD can occur from any psychological trauma; it is subjective, what is traumatizing to each individual is not necessarily to the degree as another. Being in combat could cause PTSD, but that doesn't mean a bad trip couldn't, they can be extremely terrifying experiences filled with horrible thoughts and imagery.

 

[AA357]

you don't get my point, huh? I've told you before, all you do is make generalizations based on your own experiences, basically everything you say on here comes from an egocentric point of view, I never once saw you giving valuable advice.

and no, telling people with psychological crisis to "get over it" or "harden up" is not at all helpful.

Whatever man. Since this time last year, I must have tripped about 100 times on psychedelic drugs and I only fucked up once... I must be doing something right.

Actually PTSD is common from car accidents, animal attacks, natural disasters, witnesses of violent crimes, and pretty much anything else traumatic. It is not limited to those three causes as you say.
Also, could you cite a source for your assertion that the majority of rape victims and domestic abuse victims don't suffer from PTSD? (that's quite a bold statement, doctor)
And PTSD can occur from any psychological trauma; it is subjective, what is traumatizing to each individual is not necessarily to the degree as another. Being in combat could cause PTSD, but that doesn't mean a bad trip couldn't, they can be extremely terrifying experiences filled with horrible thoughts and imagery.

I don't know if you saw the graph I posted.
The figure for rape victims seems to be a bit higher than the graph shows - I had a look and it seems the lifetime prevalence for PTSD is actually 50%.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2323517/

The figure for combat veterans seems about right though.

My point is that violence is the biggest cause of PTSD by a wide margin.

 

[murphythecat]

you don't get my point, huh? I've told you before, all you do is make generalizations based on your own experiences, basically everything you say on here comes from an egocentric point of view, I never once saw you giving valuable advice.

and no, telling people with psychological crisis to "get over it" or "harden up" is not at all helpful.

this.

 

[Trying2Iso]

I don't know if you saw the graph I posted.
The figure for rape victims seems to be a bit higher than the graph shows - I had a look and it seems the lifetime prevalence for PTSD is actually 50%.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2323517/

The figure for combat veterans seems about right though.

My point is that violence is the biggest cause of PTSD by a wide margin.

So yeah, my point that you are unable to find a study that shows "majority of these people don't suffer from PTSD".
My assertion to your last sentence would be that LSD causing bad trips hasn't been investigated for PTSD, so the numbers could be far higher. In addition, many people claim their bad trips caused them PTSD, so there is definitely something there. If someone is still having recurring nightmares about a bad trip months later, and suffers from elevated anxiety and depression as a result of a bad trip, that would constitute PTSD

 

[alasdairm]

No, I'm giving people valuable advice...

you're giving people advice, certainly. whether it's valuable is a matter of opinion.

you certainly have a very high opinion of your own advice.

What else can you tell someone who's had a bad trip other than 'get over it'?

attempting to distill an issue like this into 3 silver-bullet words is, to me, not very useful or valuable. there are many ways to handle a bad trip (for the want of a better term) and just telling somebody who's struggling to just "man the fuck up" could just as easily make things worse.

This game is not for the faint of heart.

for many, it's not a game.

alasdair

 

[AA357]

you're giving people advice, certainly. whether it's valuable is a matter of opinion.

you certainly have a very high opinion of your own advice.
attempting to distill an issue like this into 3 silver-bullet words is, to me, not very useful or valuable. there are many ways to handle a bad trip (for the want of a better term) and just telling somebody who's struggling to just "man the fuck up" could just as easily make things worse.
for many, it's not a game.

alasdair

I'm just saying: hypochondriasis seems to be a bit of a thing on here. People are quick to assume the worst. Take a look at all the "I think acid fried my brain" type threads that get posted on here damn near every day... I bet you 90% of these people don't have PTSD and have simply worn themselves out by overthinking and taking things too seriously.
Incidentally most of the authors of these threads seem to be teenagers.

On the other hand, if you are mentally ill or have a predisposition to psychosis then it might be a good idea to see a doctor. That's a totally different can of worms.

 

[Trying2Iso]

Incidentally most of the authors of these threads seem to be teenagers.

which means...?
Teenagers are the ones who would struggle the most during a bad trip because those are the years that they are still trying to figure themselves and the world out. not to mention it's a tough age.
If anything teenagers would be more susceptible to bad trips

 

[Cream Gravy?]

I've got nothing to contribute to the debate... but it is my personal opinion that psychedelics don't mess people up, rather they psych themselves out.

I have a good friend who is convinced 25i permanently fucked him up and now he is afraid of psychedelics; however, no one seems to have noticed anything different about him. He's the exact same person I knew before, only he's fearful of psychedelics. I think it's a textbook case of psyching one's self out.