The Cannabis Discussion Thread Version 2

[laugh]

Iv tripped on ganja before usually only when I don't have a tolly. I do remember one particular bag when I was younger that was trippy as fuck. I always describe ganja as a psychedelic and a muscle relaxant amongst many other things.

 

[Captain Brewster]

I've never tripped on weed itself.

If I've gone to long without I just panic attack.

Psychs trip me out. And most of the time the green will enhance that.

 

[drug_mentor]

Anyone have any good methods for reducing the ph of soil that is too alkaline? My soil keeps reading between 7.2 and 7.5 despite me flushing it a couple of times, just today I ran about 2.5-3 litres of water with a ph of 6 through each of my largest plants in 125mm pots and it seems to of made little difference to the ph. I have had alkaline soil for a couple of weeks now and it is causing deficiencies in my plant, which is showing at the very least signs of phosphorous deficiency and zinc deficiency. Am I doing something wrong in regards to flushing or is this not the best approach for getting the ph of soil to lower?

I am at a loss at what to do, since it seems multiple flushes are not having an effect. It is possible that my soil ph prong is giving me slightly incorrect readings, I have read they are not to be relied on, but using aquarium strips in the run off it still shows to be at least a 7, if not higher. I read of some things people add to soil to make it more acidic, but these are all really for use before planting, I am not seeing much on products to add to lower ph after planting. I read peat moss is slightly acidic and I thought I could top dress my pots with some peat moss and over time my ph would go down, but the problem with this is it likely would not work anywhere near fast enough and also, I wouldn't have any idea on the right quantity to use, too much and I would be having the opposite problem to the one I am having now...

One observation that I have made, the first time I flushed my plants the run off had a noticeable discolouration which it did not today, I am not entirely sure what that would indicate but I am guessing it just means I washed all the nutrients out of my soil?

At this point it is almost tempting to feed with a high P bloom fertiliser and see if the plants improve, as I do believe I have lowered my ph enough that P could probably be used by the plant again, however, it does seem kind of pointless to me if the ph has not been corrected to the extent that ALL of the nutrients the plant needs can be used effectively, (it would seem to me that this is not the case for a ph of 7.2-7.5) especially if my only solid option for lowering the ph would be flushing the medium again.

Further, I want to top my plants as I have a pretty strict height restriction, they have about 6 nodes now and are just developing their 7th, I would REALLY like to top them right now (in fact I wanted to a week or so ago!) but I am unsure if adding that stress when they already have nutrient deficiencies would be unwise? I am thinking it likely would be. However, I really can't let them develop much further before I have to top regardless of the adverse effect it has on plant health. Worst case scenario can I top two nodes down since the plants are more developed than I would of liked them to be when topping?

Any advice on any or all of these questions would be greatly appreciated, have been having these problems for the better part of two weeks and it seems no matter what I do, they are getting worse, not better. It is starting to cause me quite a bit of stress as I just can't figure out what the hell I have done wrong, other than use alkaline tap water for the first month or so of my plants lives.

 

[lovepsychadelics]

Citric acid available as a ph modifier for hydroponic systems, comes in a bottle add to water and pour it on. Acidifying minerals like pyrite or Aluminium sulfate. Basically fertilizers with a high content. Another is urea again raw of high concentrated fertilizer. Really you got to dig the soil up and rework it and as in pot this is impractical. Adding the ph lowering liquid stuff found for hydroponic systems allows you to water it in and should make a difference. Reworking soil is important when growing outdoors and not in pots/hydro. Don't worry about tipping them they don't sound like they will shock from this to much despite their less than optimal health. Did you use regular soil from the ground? You could also use a foliage spray fertilizer as it's absorbed by the leaves but make sure you use as specified as excessive concentrations can burn the leaves. As they are in pots the citric acid ph modifier should be just what you want.

Excessive flushing will not help if your not adding something to change the chemical balance present in the soil. Also microbial teas are of benifit.

 

[drug_mentor]

^ I have citric acid in solution in the form of Ph down, today alone I flushed 2.5-3 litres of water ph'd to 6 through my two 125mm pots, which I can't imagine being more than 500-750mL in capacity. What is wrong with this as a flushing technique? Because according to my ph readings it did sweet fuck all. I did the same thing with water I got down to ph 6 or 6.5 the other day using lemon juice, there was also a solid two days of rain where I live, rain water I read generally is about 5.6 ph. My ph HAS come down a little, but I am talking from less than 8 to still sitting in a range between 7.2 and 7.5, it seems to me flushing with ph'd water is very ineffective for altering the ph of soil (which makes little sense, since the alkalinity of my bloody tap water is what caused this problem!), either that or I need to be using a more dramatically acidic solution, but until someone with experience advises me that is the case I am not going to risk killing my plants with low ph water.

The plants are all planted, the soil is branded potting mix, the ph is fine out of the bag but a month or so of watering with tap water has caused my soil to be come alkaline, I don't see how mixing shit in with the soil is an option for me at this stage? Not without stressing the shit out of my plants any way, which I am looking to avoid.

"Excessive flushing will not help if your not adding something to change the chemical balance present in the soil. Also microbial teas are of benifit."This line I don't fully understand, what should I be adding after I flush? Specifically what should I be adding to bring my ph down?

I really don't want to use chemical fertilisers, I wanted this to be an organic grow, surely there is a way to acidify soil without going this route, however if it is a choice of fixing this issue with chemicals or letting my plants perform poorly because of inability to access certain nutrients I am willing to throw in a tiny dose of chems.

 

[justsayknow]

Further, I want to top my plants as I have a pretty strict height restriction, they have about 6 nodes now and are just developing their 7th, I would REALLY like to top them right now (in fact I wanted to a week or so ago!) but I am unsure if adding that stress when they already have nutrient deficiencies would be unwise? I am thinking it likely would be. However, I really can't let them develop much further before I have to top regardless of the adverse effect it has on plant health. Worst case scenario can I top two nodes down since the plants are more developed than I would of liked them to be when topping?

Any advice on any or all of these questions would be greatly appreciated, have been having these problems for the better part of two weeks and it seems no matter what I do, they are getting worse, not better. It is starting to cause me quite a bit of stress as I just can't figure out what the hell I have done wrong, other than use alkaline tap water for the first month or so of my plants lives.

The tops still look pretty green though. If they are still growing it shouldn't be a problem to top them. I don't do this anymore but when I have before it would be only a tiny amount of the growing tip that you take off and they direct all the energy into the two tips that are left behind. I don't think its that stress full for them, I've seen bugs do the same type of damage is not worse and the plants just keep on growing. Or you can tie them down which is pretty much zero stress.

Also if I were you I wouldn't stress too much or resort to drastic measures. If possible put them in to the earth if not move up to a larger pot with maybe a bit more in the way of organic matter and nutrients in it. You don't have to bare root the plants just let the roots move into something they like a bit better. I have found its way easier to fuck up the balance in small pots than it is in the earth.

If you are 100% positive the tap water is the problem swap to rainwater or distilled or what ever but don't give it more than it needs. Let it dry right out before watering again.

I haven't used the microbial teas that lovepsychadelics is talking about but compost teas or worm leachate seem to be beneficial. I guess the theory is that the microbes break down the nutrients to make them more readily available to the plant. Not sure how the ph is effected I guess it would depend on what went into the tea.

 

[drug_mentor]

Thanks heaps mate, I appreciate all your advice.

The tops are pretty green, but there is some yellowing inside the leaves that looks like an iron deficiency which may not be particularly visible in the small photos I posted in CD. The plants are definitely still growing, so I will likely top them in the next few days, do you have any experience taking two nodes instead of one? I have read it gives 4 colas instead of two, which I am not overly concerned with but it would be interesting, I mainly have an interest in doing this because I wanted to top a week or so ago and didn't because of the deficiencies I noticed in my plant, and was hoping to take two for the sake of keeping them short.

I am pretty familiar with LST and do plan to incorporate that into my grow for size management, but the neighbours fence is like 6 feet tall, maybe even a tiny bit less, the 40L pots I have are a good 1-1.5 feet tall and so my plants do have to remain quite short. Because of the low fence, I don't just want to keep the height of the plant down but the less time I spend fucking around in that spot the better, I feel as a beginner to rely solely on LST for height issues could be time consuming and my constant presence could draw unwanted attention to the area.

 

[poledriver]

I ended up planting 3 seeds a while ago and only 1 came up, it's only as big as my middle finger to thumb (long hand size) at present and I have tipped it a few times already, I dont really stress about the soil and ph and shit, whatever happens happens, it's growing well though and looks healthy, I just hope it ends up being a female.

 

[justsayknow]

so I will likely top them in the next few days, do you have any experience taking two nodes instead of one? I have read it gives 4 colas instead of two, which I am not overly concerned with but it would be interesting, I mainly have an interest in doing this because I wanted to top a week or so ago and didn't because of the deficiencies I noticed in my plant, and was hoping to take two for the sake of keeping them short.

You mean basically cutting it in half and letting the four branches remaining become the new tops? Ive never done that but I don't reckon it would be any better for keeping them small than numerous toppings like PD is doing. Probably strain dependent but I've seen them get eaten by bugs down to a point where there is only 3 branches remaining while small seedlings. Those branches just grew like 3 separate but skinny trees, got to about 8ft.

You should hack one of them back like that just to see how it goes. Would make a cool experiment. You could probably tie down each of the 4 branches to keep it low.

 

[poledriver]

Yeah I've faced that problem many times in the past with bugs/grubs or whatever eating away parts, I've found it's usually only an issue when the plants are really young and it can have a bad effect, once they get over knee size and there is healthy parts all over the place I haven't noticed the bugs being much of an issue, at times like we are having now (where I am) with massive dry spells and then huge down pours for a few days of 100's of mills I find it's good to remove the young plant to a dry spot so it doesnt get too wet for days and have as much close proximity to other plants and shrubs (that I usually hide it in) and easy contact for those grubs - so basically I move it under an awning or balcony area over night or even half the day if it is pissing down, like it has been the last few days here. It was a shame that only 1/3 came up, but the one I have looks pretty good so far, but there's a 50/50 chance it might be a male (i think?), guess I just have to wait and see.

 

[justsayknow]

Yeah it wasn't a problem it just had three stems instead of one. Didn't help with the height issues at all. Luckily the neighbours were cool with it.

 

[drug_mentor]

Justsayknow, upon reviewing the method as it is written that is apparently what they mean, I understood it just to be taking off the top two nodes though, not everything above the second!

As I understand topping, you remove the new growth tips above the last established node, as close to the node as possible. Basically in the following picture I would be removing everything above where the stems of the leaves on the left and right meet the main stem.

What I want to do is also remove the node that you would generally be cutting above, my reasoning for this is I wanted to top the plants at a stage they had one less node than they do now. I was hoping that doing this would keep the plant shorter than just topping above the last node.

This photo is the same plant, but with the pot rotated 90 degrees, so now the leaves that stick far out on the left and right near the top of the plant is the node I want to top just above. One of those leaves was the one closest to the camera lens in the first photo, sitting just under the node one would cut above to top normally.

I have to admit, I am now wondering how much sense there is in doing this myself. I was looking up the other day if you could do it, and came across that Uncle Ben method on a few different forums, I misunderstood it though, fuck chopping off half my plant or more. I am still open to the idea of taking off two nodes but if people tell me it is just going to stress the plant and not necessarily make it shorter than taking one node then I wont bother

Poledriver, I have read that stress has an impact on plants turning male. Plenty of good growers do seem to get 60-70% females, some even claiming more than that, which does seem to lend credibility to the fact that favourable growing conditions increase the likelihood of the plant being female. It could just be however, that more than half of cannabis plants turn out to be female. Funnily enough, I know a number of people to of grown out one plant, always unfeminised and always seemed to come up female. I hope that your baby is a girl as it would be kind of frustrating to put in the effort and take the risk for no reward. I suppose if it is a male you could keep it alive until it drops its pollen and collect it somehow, that way if you get a female next year you can apply some pollen to a couple buds and get a nice supply of seeds without impacting the majority of your smoke.

 

[justsayknow]

Funnily enough, I know a number of people to of grown out one plant, always unfeminised and always seemed to come up female. I hope that your baby is a girl as it would be kind of frustrating to put in the effort and take the risk for no reward. I suppose if it is a male you could keep it alive until it drops its pollen and collect it somehow, that way if you get a female next year you can apply some pollen to a couple buds and get a nice supply of seeds without impacting the majority of your smoke.

Apparently hermi plants or even female plants that just produce a couple of male flowers due to stress will produce seeds that give a very high ratio of females. I think the general ratio for regular seeds may be slightly in favour of females anyway.

 

[pisspotnrock]

I've had cuttings turn hermi due to light stress (goin from flower, to veg then back to flower) and ill tell you know now, its far from a couple of male flowers haha I spent days picking the cunts off and still managed to miss a couple which pollinated 3/4s of the plants... anddd I heard from a few old school growers that any hermi seeds that are used n germinated will produce a hermi plant via genetics.. but dont take my word for it....

D_M, no offence (I realize that [from what I gather] this is your first proper grow and you wanna get it spot on from the start), I think you are being a bit over the top in terms of perfection lol yes the PH level of what-ever medium plays a huge role on nutrient intake but dude, the levels you're mentioning arnt fully off the scale and you will produce a fine healthy plant without fuckin around with the PH level too much... the deficiency's may be a small problem but its not gonna kill your plant or make much of an overall difference of the final product.. although you have a rough idea what may be causing them, you can never really be 100% sure unless you are a fully qualified horticulturalist with years of experience growing 'said plant'...

if those photo's you posted are your's, you honestly got nothing to worry about man.. haha you should see the cutting I got yesterday.. thankfully its still in full veg mode so it shouldnt go into flower at this time of year but man, just looking at the mid-age/old (and a couple of the new) leaves, they're some mad defficiances of something..

having all this said, this is purely my opinion and I havnt had any troubles with cultivation during the 5 years experience I have..

 

[drug_mentor]

No offence taken mate, I fully admit that I am being a bit of a perfectionist, but I have a tendency to be that way about stuff that I care about, and producing some fine quality outdoor bud so I can stop paying for commercial hydro is something I care a LOT about!

I have never been under the impression my plants are in imminent danger of death or anything even that close, but I did plant them a bit later than I intended and if you add to that too many weeks of slowed growth due to nutrient deficiencies it could very realistically have a pretty negative impact on my yield, something I would obviously like to prevent. It is all the more frustrating when you think you have the solution to a problem, only to perform it and find it made no difference.

I know it doesn't really take anyone special or any great level of care to grow some decent quality cannabis, many of my mates have done just that for years now, of the 3 or 4 in my immediate friend circle not one of them has ever fucked around with PH, or even so much as given the damn thing more than a couple feedings. So long as they aren't too lazy to skip the cure the end product is still one that I would rather smoke than a great deal of what passes for weed these days. I mean, I can still get potent weed (usually, not always) but I am so sick of smoke that tastes like it was grown in a fucking sewer or the occasions where fucktards don't even dry it out properly. I am seriously going broke making assholes that can't properly grow the easiest plant on earth to grow rich, it is a fucking joke. Regardless of the fact that I am virtually guaranteed good smoke so long as my neighbours don't see it and call the cops, or more likely rip me off, I would still rather put the effort into my grow so I can hopefully take real pride in my end result.

BTW those pics are mine, it doesn't look like there are any issues in them but that is due to the fact I was taking photos of the top of the plant for a specific question about topping. I posted more pics over in CD to highlight some of the problems I have been having, while they are far from the end of the world, my plants really are not as healthy as the two photographs in this thread might suggest.

 

[justsayknow]

. anddd I heard from a few old school growers that any hermi seeds that are used n germinated will produce a hermi plant via genetics.. but dont take my word for it....

Yeah it is inherited but some will be way more on the female side. I have kept seeds from hermies and grown them out a few times. I've also seen some plants that only produce a couple of flowers right at the end of flowering. I feel your pain on the picking off hundreds of flowers and still finding seeds. Its fucked.

 

[justsayknow]

I suppose if it is a male you could keep it alive until it drops its pollen and collect it somehow, that way if you get a female next year you can apply some pollen to a couple buds and get a nice supply of seeds without impacting the majority of your smoke.

According to lots of more skill full folks than I this is possible to dry pollen and freeze it but I've fucked it up on the couple of occasions I've attempted it. Much easier to take a small amount of fresh pollen and apply it directly to the lower branches of a female plant. You may get some drift and the insects may spread some but if you put the male inside before it drops its pollen you wont get seeds in everything. There's also bags specifically for stopping pollen spreading.

 

[pisspotnrock]

No offence taken mate, I fully admit that I am being a bit of a perfectionist, but I have a tendency to be that way about stuff that I care about, and producing some fine quality outdoor bud so I can stop paying for commercial hydro is something I care a LOT about!

haha I'm the exact same dude, a bit of a obsessive compulsive sorta thing and too right on the commercial shit, although I have had pretty good luck on the seldom occasion I've had to buy it.. I literally LOVE organic bushies (when I say organic, I mean from ferts. to pesticides) and absolutely DESPISE growers that dont flush their buds (although admittedly, some of my mates dont )

I have never been under the impression my plants are in imminent danger of death or anything even that close, but I did plant them a bit later than I intended and if you add to that too many weeks of slowed growth due to nutrient deficiencies it could very realistically have a pretty negative impact on my yield, something I would obviously like to prevent. It is all the more frustrating when you think you have the solution to a problem, only to perform it and find it made no difference.

I knew you werent under that impression and regarding planting them a bit late, thats nothing to worry about at all.. the way I've always seen it, better late than early (but thats shearly in regards to hydro cuttings being transferred outdoors, not from seed)

and when it comes to worrying about making a difference with the yield, with bushies, the only overall difference would be minuscule.. I tend to find cannabis can be much like poppies, the less you fuck with them, the better the outcome.. its a matter of getting the preparation right beforehand that makes the difference... (although that can sometimes be hard with limited, first hand experiance)

I know it doesn't really take anyone special or any great level of care to grow some decent quality cannabis, many of my mates have done just that for years now, of the 3 or 4 in my immediate friend circle not one of them has ever fucked around with PH, or even so much as given the damn thing more than a couple feedings. So long as they aren't too lazy to skip the cure the end product is still one that I would rather smoke than a great deal of what passes for weed these days. I mean, I can still get potent weed (usually, not always) but I am so sick of smoke that tastes like it was grown in a fucking sewer or the occasions where fucktards don't even dry it out properly. I am seriously going broke making assholes that can't properly grow the easiest plant on earth to grow rich, it is a fucking joke. Regardless of the fact that I am virtually guaranteed good smoke so long as my neighbours don't see it and call the cops, or more likely rip me off, I would still rather put the effort into my grow so I can hopefully take real pride in my end result.

I'm literally running out of time to write a proper reply but you're right, growing cannabis (like poppies) is very easy/basic one you have the slightest clue what ya doin.. yeah, fuck supporting some comm. growers than are blatantly rorting their customers via improper flushing/drying/curing.. not even worth handing them a cent.. no matter what, the way you're goin about it, you'll end up with possibly the best smoke you've ever had in your life (givin you have the right genetics)

I wish you the best man, Ill post some flicks up once/if mine get goin

 

[pisspotnrock]

Yeah it is inherited but some will be way more on the female side. I have kept seeds from hermies and grown them out a few times. I've also seen some plants that only produce a couple of flowers right at the end of flowering. I feel your pain on the picking off hundreds of flowers and still finding seeds. Its fucked.

yeah it was a right cunt having to pick of literally hundreds of balls of the three plants I had (twas my first grow, was only 15/16 at the time)... good to know they dont always come out hermi.. although ill probably never fuck with seeds again in my life unless there's no other option n I'm desperate

 

[drug_mentor]

Don't get me wrong, I usually get good weed despite my complaints, in fact I would say that I normally get a good standard, for a commercial product. I don't think any commercially grown weed in this country is cured, I don't think most of it is flushed (certainly not properly/well) and the use of chemical ferts is pretty much a given. For the most part I get shit that is dried well and does not have that PGR shit pumped through it, but there are fairly irregular interruptions to this and I do occasionally have little choice but to pay for shit that is a bit damp, or the buds are clearly rock hard and pumped full of garbage. The thing is, as someone who relies on cannabis to sleep it isn't really an option for me to pass up when it is shit, but when it is I literally end up paying twice as much because it just doesn't stretch out when you account for how small it chops with some moisture or after PGRs have been used, or the times when it is just sub par quality. Recently one of my main people has gotten out of the game, and I always find around the approach to Christmas weed supply seems to dry up a bit, so lately it has not been as good as I would of liked. Most of the time what I am smoking is better than what I see a lot of other people smoking and selling, but it could just be a lot better in my view. Especially in the last year or two, my lungs have become a bit fragile, I would honestly rather some slightly less potent weed that tasted nice and wasn't harsh compared to super potent chemical taste harsh hydro, that is half of my problem or more right there.

I feel like 4 or 5 years ago shit was a lot better, I just don't remember most bags I picked up tasting so shit and I feel like ounces definitely seemed fatter and maybe a touch frostier then, even though I was going through them quicker because I smoked all day every day. Maybe it is just who I know, but some of the people have remained the same while it seems like the product has slid in quality. I don't pay a lot for an ounce compared to what I hear some other people do, but I would be happy as Larry to pay for quality, problem is, you don't have the option here like they do in North America and Europe.

I highly doubt anything I grew out will be the best shit I ever smoked, although I would certainly love that to be the case! I don't have any genetics from a breeder or anything, just some seeds from a couple mates grows last year, although it definitely was nice weed. I have been smoking cannabis for 11 years and in that time I have seen some pretty damn amazing buds in Australia, I also spent a bit over a week in Amsterdam 13 or 14 months ago and was only buying from the top of the menu in coffee shops recommended to me by people who lived or spent a great deal of time in the Dam.

Can I ask why you would never grow from seed again compared to clone? I have limited access to clones, but it is a hassle to get them and they all come from people running indoor set ups, I am sure they would work fine outside but I do suspect they are best done indoors. Either way I was happy to go from seed this year and get the whole life cycle experience, so to speak.