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The Big & Dandy Phenethylamines vs Tryptamines Thread

Which class of psychedelic chemicals do you prefer?

  • Phenethylamines (Such as 2C-X, DOX and NBOMe's)

    Votes: 11 28.2%
  • Tryptamines

    Votes: 28 71.8%

  • Total voters
    39
I would agree with the opinion mentioned earlier ^ tryptamines in general do feel deeper although there are certainly exceptions lying at both ends. 2C-E is incredibly deep for a PEA, but I found 4-HO-DiPT (at 20 mg) probably even more easy than 2C-D/2C-C/2C-B while still having the same background feeling of intensity.

That tryptamine experiences are harder to take back is something I would also agree with. They tend to appeal more to emotion, intuition, flow, irrationality and on a cognitive and sensory level more with concepts, memes, gestalt, reading between the lines and sensing rather than analyzing data.
With 2C-X compounds (so typical PEAs) there can be a profound appreciation for aesthetics and emotional opening that lends itself to easy therapy, but it still often seems to be done from a rational modus. Visuals seem to me more like a photoshop effect, beautiful but fake, sometimes unbelievably intricate but still often not integrated at the core of the things you experience. It is like texture effects and other things occur outside of you, but you can interact with them - and considering the sensuality very much so. Pretty psychomotoric?

With tryptamines I tend to feel distortions at a much deeper level, it is not only that I see them but I may be able to feel them as well or recognize that they reflect ripples inside of myself and not outside.

There is a lot more to it but I have an appointment and gotta run! Will edit later.
 
I wonder if tryps work in the so called lower mammalian or reptilian brains, being why they cant be translated into symbolic language.
 
^ that's an interesting thought, Quantum Perception. Several trypts surprised me with a weird narcissism, not negative I think. I will see my body and love it for being such a good vessel. Whenever I get this feeling, my body feels like some ancient and silently wise creature.

I also frequently envision totems and antique word-carved figurines. Not sure what to make of this since I consciously have little knowledge of either.

These experiences do not occur with any phens for me. Honestly I find phens to be better suited to deep contemplation these days, but trypts played an irreplaceable role in ripping out my illusion of reality.
 
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At reasonable doses, I find phens to generally be accompanied by a far more malleable and lucid headspace. This not the case 100 percent of the time, but is consistent enough to generalize a bit. I can still do higher level math on a ++ from phens, but generally not on a similarly intense dose of most trypts.
 
As far as psychedelics go, I've only done San pedro and shrooms.

San Pedro: Speedier, longer lasting, unbearably nauseating, intense CEVs.
Shrooms: Alternating energy/fatigue, more intense OEVs, no nausea.

For me, San pedro was more "spiritual" while shrooms are more fun and social. I generally like the stimulant effect but it just felt awkward on pedro. I like the funhouse effect I get from shrooms, where everything melts, bends and distorts. Good time.
 
I feel that these two classes of psychedelics are completely equal in "depth". They both have the ability to catapult you in to a +4 trancendental experience. There are differing aspects to the way you get there with these substances. As has been said a lot, phenethylamines are generally somewhat clearer headed. This doesn't mean that the phenethylamine experience is grounded in the mundane though. Nor are the visuals "fake". On the contrary in fact, phenethylamines show me things visually in a way that just makes everything make sense again. There is an emotional heart-opening connection to the ethereal flows of nature which is real and tangible. With phenethylamine trips, it feels like I'm waking up from having fallen asleep under the monotonous spell of social idiocy. Waking up to the organic light.

Tryptamines can take you to extreme locations or non-locations at high doses, and things can be more cartoonish or satirical at lower doses, but again, all serotonergic psychedelics have these properties. I think with phenthylamines it is more about the journey than the destination, so those far-out places can go under your radar because the route you took to get there was just so fascinating. I tend to get a slightly more alien feeling with tryptamines; not as though it were extraterrestrial, but as though new lifeforms I had never even considered are right there in front of me and had always been there. That would included the entities living in our very world; in our plants, in the soil and everything. Travelling through dimensional shifts seems to be more prevalent and 'in your face' with tryptamines.


Also, don't forget the wonderful lysergamides/ergoids!
 
It depends. some phens are lightweight and some aren't, some trypts are plain fucking weird some are wonderful. Overall I'd probably prefer a trypt of my choice but I could well feel different next week.
Having both means you can avoid tolerance a little easier than if you were only stuck with one class of psychs.
I vote for both.
 
Phenethylamines tend to bind more to norepinephrine and dopamine receptors, I think. The end result of this is a more "speedy" flavor... Phenethylamines are often more conducive to physical activity for me. On 2C-B, for example, I am content to run around in the woods on a low dose, or squirm like a lizard and make noises on a high dose. On Mushrooms, I would be more likely to sit down or maybe go for a walk on a low dose, and lay motionless thinking on a high dose.
 
effects of tryptamines vs. phenethylamines

so i noticed there is no big and dandy on this, but i have an intuitive feeling that people can, and do, decipher the difference. although perhaps you could do some of your own double-blind experiments to get real answers....

you see i've read solipsis trying to describe tryptamines as more conceptual to paraphrase his description, which proved in itself how difficult it is to describe the difference, and i've heard of someone describing the tryptamine properties to terence mckenna as more "archaic and animal" which he agreed with, in an audio video that you can find many of on youtube. however in the audio video he was comparing tryptamines to say dissociatives. i certainly have personally found the mushroom to be more archaic and wild then the biggest ergoline, but that could be the other chemicals, after all it is a prehistoric fungi, and i don't have much experience with synthetic tryptamines

i've found tryptamines to work more like a "mental whizz," and phenethylamines to be more "body glow," for want of better language

do you think there is a distinguishable difference ??? do you hate shoe polish ??? do you love to trip on phenethylamines more ??? any thoughts welcome, thanks !!
 
In terms of objective comparisons, in general the 2C-X phenethylamine family tends to have a slight stimulant push (most noticeable in 2C-I and 2C-E) and yes a very positive body glow that makes them very good for physical trips (sexy times, hiking, etc) while the mushroom-analog 4-substituted tryptamine family tends to have a sedative, meditative push and more of the possibility of out-of-body mystical experiences (ie, wholly in the mind's eye).

I have not yet tried the rarer tryptamine analogs (only shrooms, 4-aco-dmt, and 4-ho-mpt), but I have had many more trips with 2C-X family (2c-e, 2c-i, 2c-t-7, 2c-c). My two +4 experiences came once from mushrooms and once from LSD. I do not know if it is myself who changed (thus unable to have a +4 on 2c-x) or if they are innately less "spiritual" than mushrooms, but I do enjoy the 2C-X for their purpose-- easy to dose exactly the sweet spot, easy to choose duration and ratio of effects/side effects, and easy to have a grounded, visceral trip. Personally I would not hesitate to take a low dose of 2C-X as a mood enhancer for a special day (even if others were refraining from partaking) but I would reserve mushrooms for a specifically spiritual or intellectual experience alone or with only my trusted friends.
 
^ interested you found something similar with the physical vs. mental. i think more PD BL'ers prefer tryptamines because this place thrives on intuition. although having said that MDMA can be very intuitive *generalisation broken*

i think interesting to note in itself is serotonin is a tryptamine

drats i forgot the searchboxmachine, but thank you !

maybe they could all be merged into a super thread ??
 
the only pea i have experience with is mescaline, other than a couple of times which 'mescaline capsules' purchased at a festival definitely were a RC of some sort. speculatively 2c-i from everything i read about it, but i'm not going to specifically address those few experiences for my comparison as i can't truly say wtf it was lol.

Ive had breakthrough +3 experiences with mescaline near 30 times i'd say, probably another 20 or so low doses in the +2 range. Definitely have had absolute transcendent experiences with the cactus which are +4 or whatever. feels like this scale is lacking, i feel silly tryping this lol.

No research chem experience, except by accident ^ :) my tryptamine experiences are limited to mushrooms for the most part, a few dmt experiences.

So, looking through the goggles of my bias binding me through limited (in this case only plant) experience...

it seems that peas are more 'stimulating', definitely felt that with my one random 2c exp as well. but with mescaline, its not so much a jittery stimulation, but rather a seemingly endless 'fuel' and a sense excitement and ready-for-adventureness.

the tryptamines have a definitely 'obe' kind of feeling, and a marked 'lay down and melt' reaction.

tryptamines also seem to involve a sense of movement, in both the visual nature as well as the physical sensations. visually things have a certain 'ticking' or 'flanging', almost 'vibrational' feeling. everything seems to bend or dance in a certain pattern which mesmerizes my focus, kind of snake charmer-esque. some new movement or new dynamic to the pattern is always coming into view in a rather forceful and overwhelming-feeling way. Also these movements and 'ticks of adjustment' which are characteristic visually also correlate to synergistic sensations of feeling. it seems like my sense of physical orientation is always updating, as though i'm falling in different directions (maybe even more than 3d..;)) like a sense of gravity pulling me in certain directions...or pulling me into some sort of pulley-operated spiral machine, wherein my sense of 'solidity to self' is distorted or put through a series of multi-dimensional rolling pins until 'i' am a distorted puddle of cosmic goo. even when it's not so physically overwhelming. it always feels like i'm 'traveling' in a turbulent manner, when i go into a trance with tryptamines. a feeling of hyper-drive and and 'other world'liness which is sometimes intimidatingly unrelenting, almost 'too much' feeling or 'i'm gonna go crazy' feeling sometimes lol (when the ego pokes its head in and delusion washes over its eyes that is ;))

Mescaline, on the other hand,(and i can see the pea resemblance in my couple 2c exps) has a markedly different character. visually it is not so often ticking movements, but rather spatial and proportional fun house mirror kind of bends. when this becomes turbulent and intense everything can be totally visionary and absolutely as intense and mind blowing as tryptamine visuals, but there seems to be differences. first off, with a high enough dose of mescaline things will be undeniably warped and everything can become 'beings' and full on vionary type images...however, the most intense aspects of mescaline (and maybe this applies to other peas...) come through entering 'trance'. there is a certain 'letting go', which mescaline generally doesn't force upon you (whereas tryptamines generally do), but when one essentially meditates and clears ones thoughts it opens the door for absolutely encompassing visionary states. however, the difference i can note is that mescaline distortions 'stay within the boundaries of the object' in terms of your perceptual recognition of the symbols placement in your perceptual field...though can be completely 'written over' perceptually with new feature and/ore ideas, it seems the boundaries between each object don't melt away as easily. whereas trypts seems to make the objects go running away and the distortions cause the boundaries to become engaged as if reaching some maximum pressure. when you 'take a step back' with peas, everything seems intact and not flanging around like with the tryptamines. the visuals with peas seem to be climbing in and out of ones peception of the objects(or perceptions of non-objects), rather than the tryptamine 'climbing around ones' perception which objects tend to do.

i'm kind of picturing the analogy of there being a bunch of strings connecting you to the objects and symbols around you...it seems that with mescaline the trance and 'lizards climbing out of the capet'(yup i saw dat;)) is some kind of perceptual engagement travel of investigating the strings' (though the strings themselves remain taut). i mean, it seems that the visions and visuals kind of 'pop up' into focus, or have a bent funhouse mirror quality, but the distortion is still bound to your perception in a linear manner. it might make a 2d surface become a mountain-like seemingly 3d landscape...but the 'drawing' is adjustments in perceptual recogntions of 'distance from observer'. like part seems closer than the other, and then boom! lookin at a mountain even though its just a table-top.

the tryptamnines, in terms of the string anaology are more focused on vibrating the strings themselves. so while the strings themselves may go investigated for their 'true nature' or a more defined analysis, the visual experience is most prominent in the undulations and flanging earthquake-like vibrations rocking the perception of the stimulus(or its an earthquake of 'real' waves being perceived out of the norm by the altered perceptual facilites..take your pick :)). and like i said before, it seems the objects boundaries are more readily broken with trypts, they seem to bend and squirm in a manner which makes them 'appear' to move or travel across the 'field of your vision' even if only for a second. sometimes, they may make it across the room though lol.

while i can 'see waves' with peas...like, i've seen music float across the room..and i'm not talking synesthesia, i'm talking i could see the pressure wave which was the music, i could feel part of it entering my ear (with accompanying sliding tube sound effect of the sound traveling my ear canals) and i could watch the next notes of the music traveling from the speaker through the air (with accompanying sound of 'distance', lol 2ft is a lot farther than 2cm as its entering the ear). and i can also see 'heat waves' with mescaline, like the mirage kind of effect, but i can see it more sensitively with mescaline. i know its heat, because i tripped through that whole winter and the air was instead replaced with crystalline stillness. but depending on the heat outside i would see varied amounts of these heat waves. lol, i tripped and meditated through the entire year studying nature's pattern variation :)

anyways what i'm trying to say is that while seeing the 'wave nature' of light, sound, heat etc is a common effect of mescaline-vision, the overall perception of the world is not waving and flanging around. it seem mushrooms make me see the wave nature of sold matter very readily, or it tunes my antenna to some sort of cosmic radiations which are fucking intense and present anywhere regardless of earth-variations.

peas seems to put me in the highest point of my consciousness and very 'rooted' in a zen-like awareness. tryptamines, while definitely getting me to 'high points of consciousness' are much more 'keeping me on my feet' and always making me kind of 'come to' in some new dimension, like dream inside a dream. trypts seem to address paradoxes for me as well, or allow me to at least draw this philosophical mental diagram of paradoxes which obliterates my ego upon viewing lol. its like a philosophy adventure with mushrooms reading the riddles of the thousand year old woods and being shown glimpses into other dimensions...things of that sort. whereas, mescaline has a very solid and illuminating quality to its lessons, not so much riddles and puzzles as mushrooms often have it. the zen state of the mescaline-mind just observes and goes where it needs to go, learning what it needs along the way. the dizzy-go-round tryptamine mind is yanked towards the black hole, and it sees the information of a thousand eternities written on the smeared walls of the matter entering the event horizon :D
 
^thanks for the detailed analysis, I think you did a good job describing some of the typical PEA and tryptamine visuals! Especially the bit about seeing heat and sound waves, I love how sensitive my eyes become on 2C-X that I can see vibrations before I hear them! Likewise the sense of tryptamines showing "behind the scenes" low-level quantum effects of a previously solid surface, or perhaps more prone to the feedback loops that allow you to stare into your own eyeball :)
 
Phenethylamines are wayyyy rougher on my body and make me nauseous. That said, they give me crazy visuals and more clear-headed trips, but often times the 2 hour comeup of hell is not worth it.

Tryptamines are usually shorter acting and more recreational/euphoric for me
 
Don't know if anyone has made this comparison, but very broadly speaking this is the first thing that comes to mind: Phenethylamines are to digital as tryptamines are to analog. Tryptamines tend to have more of a fluid, liquid, smooth quality whereas phens tend to have more digital-type feels and effects like flickers and digital interference patterns like moire and edge aliasing. Sounds become crisp and sparkling with phens whereas sounds on tryptamines have more analog effects like smooth phasing waves and warmer colored sound. One more analogy in this vein is that tryptamines feel round and phens feel square.
 
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I quickly scanned the topic but I couldn't find any discussion on the fact that tryptamines need to be tertiary amines to be psychedelics and phenethylamines need the be primary or secondary amines and as soon as they become tert. amines, the affinity/activity is killed. This just strikes me as extremely odd and I don't seem to get my head around this observation. The only "evidence" I could find of some psychedelic tryptamines that are sec. amine is in a very recent paper from Nichols: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/cn500292d
And even there I'm not convinced the sec. amines would've been the best choice, would've loved to see some methylated tert. amines in that series as well.
Another example might be aMT, but one could discus if this is even a "true" psychedelic, in my opinion it isn't.

Of course the ergolines are also tert. amines, but this topic is not really addressing those structures and maybe also not relevant for this question, since they could be both considered decorated tryptamines as well as decorated phenethylamines.

Hopefully someone as some reasonable answers or theories. ;)

If this was already discussed, sorry I missed it and please link me to the corresponding post. :)
 
Tryptamines, if only for the fact that they are WAY less toxic (just compare shrooms and lsd to dox and the nbomes).
And they also bring you closer to "GOD" IMO.
 
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