The Big & Dandy Phenethylamines vs Tryptamines Thread

[moab]

By 'fake experience' do you mean something that doesn't exist in ordinary, everyday life? If so, what's wrong with that? Art also provides plenty of "fake experiences" that are amazing.

By "fake experience" I mean the same i believe it meant for the whole thread. That the feelings of love and friendship are not as true as they seem during the experience.

Nothing wrong with that, as it's still an amazing experience, but when trying to put that in your daily life it might be disappointing. Of course it's only my oppinion.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Phenethylamines are like a warm embrace by a loving person!

Tryptamines are like a harsh slap in the face that knocks some sense into you!

Both are nice and useful, but I find myself lately needing hugs more than slaps. Who wants to hug???

 

[Delsyd]

Each is good for its own purpose.

and for the best of both worlds ther is LSD

 

[Xorkoth]

The more I work with tryptamines, the easier they become to handle. However, there are still a host of them that are very difficult experiences for me. Tryptamines tend to cause a much more extreme mental trip with much greater ego dissolution, in my experience. The tryptamine style of thought loop (more like a continual awakening) is fantastic and profound, but can be difficult to endure and is very hard to describe in words. The only phenethylamine I've encountered this style of thought process on is 2C-E, and even then it was only once.

 

[B9]

Tryptamines are my most favoured psychedelics ~ 2CE~2CP ~ and even emotionless 2CD are all good in certain ways but LSD ~DMT touches my soul in a way no phenethylamine has ever done so ~ Nothing wrong with phens just either my brain or body chemistry receives more from trypts !

 

[illusion25]

ONce again i would have to say i prefer tryptamines. mainly, psilocin, dmt and lsd
They tend to be a lot deeper and more spiritual. I also have a more diverse experences with tryptamines, while I tend to have similar/repeat trips on phens.


mescaline is the only phentylamine that i would rank as still spiritual after multiple doses.
2ce was up there the first couple uses but lost its magic after a couple uses. same with mdma.

for me
phen.= FEEL
trypt. = THINK
depends on what you like.
I am thinker and very mathematical person so i tend to like tryptamines more.

But i love them both and have had many great expeences woth both.

 

[killo]

So far, no drug (other than ketamine, but I will leave that out of this discussion in order to make my point) has even come close to leaving me with lasting, permanent changes to my psyche, as MDMA has. LSD sure has served a very important purpose to me, as have other tryptamines, but nothing (including several other phenethylamines) has ever come close to being as therapeutic and heart-opening as MDMA has been. It has a special place in my life, and I've only done it a couple dozen times, as opposed to the many many hundreds of times I've done LSD.

Therefore, yes, I do believe that MDxx substances are just as insightful as tryptamines. Tryptamines just tend to be more about my place as a spark of consciousness within the entire Universe, whereas MDMA was all about my place as an individual with thoughts, feelings and emotions, and how I inter-relate with everyone else I'm sharing this planet with.

I hope that makes sense.

(disclaimer: the use of pacifiers and glowsticks with MDMA negates any and all insight potential of this drug! )

I think it's all person-to-person.

People who are more attached to their ego will never achieve the degree of excellence on LSD. The experience of psychedelics are not as "in your face" focrcingly as MDMA. MDMA shoots you right into ectascy. I have actually achieved similar but different, maybe more intense spurts of ectasy on LSD. It was mostly when I tripped alone and didn't have the distraction of people. I would just sit there COMPLETELY content, everyhing is perfect and it is as it should be and has been.


It was LSD for me, not MDMA. Although MDMA showed me how open I could really be, it really brought out myself. But MDMA is very unlike my mentality. It was an odd experience to talk so clearly and openly with such love and trust.

The trust was crazy.

Anyway psychedelics are the therapy for me. MDMA already showed me who I was in a way, but it brought it out in a forcing manner.

I feel that in this sense LSD can be learned from only those who go with a completely open mind, no anticipation, no holding onto ego.

I'm convinced it's all mental and only some people have achieved this state on acid, cause it continues after tripping also of course.

Also, the general idea from acid is very clear and sometimes it can be a burden to look at life in such a way because society is very unlike an acid trip. Depending on your experience, MDMA is generally just a fun experience it seems impossible to have a bad time on it.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

People who are more attached to their ego will never achieve the degree of excellence on LSD.

What a snotty, almost arrogant assumption. “Those stuck to their ego will never achieve the degree of excellence on LSD.”

Well, actually I guess I am guilty…I think those who take MDMA in a club, or at a rave with loud music and strangers, will never actually experience anything worthwhile with MDMA, or come close to the truly psychedelic experience I know MDMA can provide. I feel it must be taken with just close people (g/friend, b/friend, best friend); outside at night, to show its real magic.

In my case, I just don’t care for LSD anymore because it doesn’t show me anything new. I have ridden the LSD-train more times than with any other psychedelic. It used to be nothing but magic for me. However, after 100s of trips, I got tired of that route. Now I prefer the warm highways of 2C and CO.

I have no problem letting go of my ego….I love IMed ketamine, 5-MeO-DMT is my favorite psychedelic…need I say more?

And I too have felt the warmth and magic with other psychedelics….LSD has tipped the surface but the one psychedelic that was everything MDMA is, and a heck-of-a-lot more is 2C-T-7.

But yeah, with statements like this where a person is convinced that one psychedelic is ‘fake’ and another is ’real’ is presumptuous and (as I said earlier) shows an inability to recognize that not all experiences are the same. The way you perceive (and experience) MDMA is not how everyone does.

Again, it is a sensitive subject because when someone says, “MDMA is fake,” they are invalidating other’s experiences. Not that it invalidates it for me, but it is still a public dismissal of another’s meaningful experiences. Imagine me saying (of your best LSD trip) that LSD is really nothing because 2C-E blows it away?

I think DMT is worthless, but I never tell those who find it to be the Holy Grail that their beloved DMT is nothing more than an interstellar roller coaster where you never get to leave the car, but you are entertained. There was no ‘enlightenment’ for me with it, but I recognize others find it different.

 

[Pimp Lazy]

"...Again, it is a sensitive subject because when someone says, “MDMA is fake,” they are invalidating other’s experiences. Not that it invalidates it for me, but it is still a public dismissal of another’s meaningful experiences. Imagine me saying (of your best LSD trip) that LSD is really nothing because 2C-E blows it away?..."

Should people feel sensitive about it? I think it's presumed that when one says something it's their view of their experience. I don't think DMT is particularly enlightening, but I recognize varying physiology plays a huge part. Maybe more sensitive language would be more effective, but acknowledging or inventing some sort of malice about such a subjective topic seems silly.

PAX,
PL

 

[MDPVagrant]

I don't think DMT is particularly enlightening, but I recognize varying physiology plays a huge part.

I don't think ANY psychedelics are "enlightening," frankly. It's a ridiculous notion to me, that a physical substance affecting a physical organ like the brain could be deeply spiritual. Absurd. But culture is so shallow these days that anything the slightest bit novel is commonly taken to be deep/meaningful.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Should people feel sensitive about it? I think it's presumed that when one says something it's their view of their experience. I don't think DMT is particularly enlightening, but I recognize varying physiology plays a huge part. Maybe more sensitive language would be more effective, but acknowledging or inventing some sort of malice about such a subjective topic seems silly.

PAX,
PL

What do you mean as far as inventing malice? I didn't imply people were maliciously trying to invalidate my MDMA experiences. Regardless though, it isn’t unusual for someone to be miffed at having another dismiss something important or special to them. Certainly religious people take it personally when others dismiss the notion of God, or their particular brand of religion. I don’t consider MDMA a religion, but my experiences with it have been among the most mystical of all (drug or no drug.) To have someone dismiss the drug as fake, because perhaps they only took it at a rave, or party, and have no concept of the kind of special experiences MDMA can bring in a different setting…well it does irk me. I know from taking methylone at a rave (and finding it a total waste of my time), that set and setting is SO vital with MDMA and its relatives. It is such a shame (in my opinion) that 90% of recreational MDMA users take it at parties, instead of using it to explore their feelings and relationships with important people in their lives, is a very big pity. Running up to strangers and telling them that they are loved is fake. But I’ve never taken MDMA around a stranger, I’ve only taken it with my g/friends. The bonds were already established and certainly not fake. MDMA certainly was a good reminder of the bonds. And the closeness and empathy we felt was real. So from my point of view, MDMA is very ‘real’ and I’ve never felt anything fake about it. Those who think it is fake most likely took it in a fake setting, like a rave.

Should I be irked…I don’t know. I am human and subject to irrational feelings. But again, to have someone dismiss something very special to me….I have a right to be irked. I don’t have to care what they think…it doesn’t matter what anyone thinks of me…but being human these things happen.

 

[blue)dolphin]

LSD has tipped the surface but the one psychedelic that was everything MDMA is, and a heck-of-a-lot more is 2C-T-7.

I would have tried 2C-T-7 except for the highly varied dose/response curve, some people reporting very uncomfortable effects, and its apparent toxicity at what I consider not-high-enough-above a proper dose. Maybe someday I'll get lucky and feel brave at the same time.

Imagine me saying (of your best LSD trip) that LSD is really nothing because 2C-E blows it away?

Wouldn't bother me ... in fact I read you and other people say 2C-E is better (or some other superlative) than LSD a couple years ago when it became available. I tried the stuff, found it to be a rather cold and strange experience overall... although certainly powerful, I never felt the desire to repeat it. LSD on the other hand has changed my life more than any other drug besides cannabis. And if it weren't for the fact that I smoke a lot of cannabis, LSD would probably easily be in 1st place.

But there's no need to take it personally. I happen to have strong feeling about a lot of the drugs I've tried, both postive and negatively so. I know a lot of people disagree with me. But then again I consider myself highly experienced compared to the average person and even very experienced with psychedelics and a variety of drugs probably compared to most people on Bluelight. I have tried a lot of things and only a few are worthwhile for me to do anymore, kind of like yourself I suppose.

So if a question comes up or there's discussion about one of these drugs I feel strongly about, I'm sure gonna put my 2 cents in! As an opinion? Of course! All that this and similar threads are really asking is "whats your opinion on this". The sum of all opinions, weighed against each person's credibility (don't worry man you got plenty of that!) will give the newbie a balanced idea of what's what. It's all good, we can only really speak for ourselves anyway

I think DMT is worthless, but I never tell those who find it to be the Holy Grail that their beloved DMT is nothing more than an interstellar roller coaster where you never get to leave the car, but you are entertained. There was no ‘enlightenment’ for me with it, but I recognize others find it different.

Yeah I'm with you there. Smoked DMT is frankly just an uncomfortable experience for me. I've been told perhaps the extracted DMT's I've worked with were not pure, but whatever. I find 4-ho and 4-aco-DMT to be a couple of the most valuable substances I've ever tried, so go figure. Smoked and pharmahuasca just didn't do it for me. Made me trip extremely hard, sure... but not what I'm looking for.

I can see why some people would consider this the holy grail of psychedelics due to its intensity and mind-blowing nature.

However, I like psychedelic drugs that occasionally give you a chance to sit back, relax, and experience the "ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......"

psilacetin is great for this, so relaxing and beautiful. Not pushy but with very deep roots.
shrooms are a little crazier but you can definitely get there.
And LSD even, if you can focus the energy right, will definitely get you there.

This, for me, is what I consider a ++++ moment. Moments of stress-free awe-struck psychedelic perfection.

 

[Ximot]

I think piracetam is a WONDERFUL tool for integrating psychedelic experiences that keep them perculating weeks afterwards.

Please elaborate on how to effectively dose piracetam to that effect, I'm interested.

 

[fastandbulbous]

I like to think od MDxx compounds as psychedelics of emotions whereas LSD are psychedelics of intellect. Like comparing carrots & combine harvesters.

Some of the PEA's though are the closest I've come to a carrot/combine harvester hybrid!

 

[Nanogram]

Phenethylamines vs. Tryptamines

Pros and cons of both. Which do you prefer?

 

[Solipsis]

Phenethylamines (PEAs)

pros:
- a little easier to direct emotionally because they are often less complex and more superficial but it is also a 'con'. But still, effects seem more easy to handle and tend to remain more sensory effects, distinguishable from real.
- body energy possible from some 2C-X and definitely of DOX

cons:
- body energy can also feel like a body load with some PEAs while most tryptamines are more clean-feeling on the body to me
- generally less spiritual although there are certainly exceptions (some PEAs are definitely deep, while some tryptamines are kind of uninteresting altogether).

From this the pro's and con's of tryptamines IMO can be understood.

I started experimenting with 2C-X because they sounded more euphoric and easier to handle. Mushrooms are very intense for me you see.
At first I found 2C-X to be very enjoyable and interesting, with beautiful effects like visuals and nice euphoria but the deeper ones like 2C-T-7 still have therapeutic potential. Later I started to find the 2C-X too easy and too gentle, not really reality shattering in most cases.

It turned out that there are definitely enough tryptamines that are not as overwhelming as I had expected. Some are downright easy, and much lighter on the body as well. I was very positively surprised. I feel as though tryptamines generally have more potential and I like them better, also more interesting to explore but there are classic PEAs that I would hate to miss.
Let me put it this way: I look forward more to 4-AcO-MET and other tryptamines I still havent tried than I look forward to 2C-T-2 and 2C-N and 2C-P. But if those 2C-Xs would not have body loads it would be the other way around. Close call.

Each corner has its own merits:
- easier PEAs are recreational and tend to feel nice on the body, like 2C-B, 2C-C, 2C-D
- heavier PEAs can have body loads but can be beautiful and interesting, 2C-E and 2C-T-7
- easier tryptamines are recreational and feel nice on the body but with less of a 'load', but still they tend to have more content than the lightest of the PEAs. 4-HO-DiPT is almost too light but still quite nice. 4-HO-MiPT is weird but cool. 4-AcO-MiPT was awesome.
- heavier tryptamines have great spiritual potential but are still okay on the body. 4-AcO-DMT comes to mind. Other heavy tryptamines can be heavy on the body, like DPT, but there are very very special ones in that category.

 

[Feste]

Phens are very hit & miss for me. Depending on the actual chemical then they're either amazing (like mescaline) or a bit nasty (like 2c-e or the 2c-t-s - especially in regards to the bodyload).

Trypts are fine for the most part, but I don't find most of them to be anything special. Mushrooms are slightly dysphoric, & most of the 4-sub trypts are fine, but nothing too fun or interesting. 4-ho-met is a lot of fun though, even if it's not especially earth moving. Never felt any negative side effects with trypts though.

Soo, I guess if I were to rate them they'd go -

Top - a few phens.
Middle - all trypts.
Bottom - the rest of the phens.

 

[IamMe90]

if we can include LSD in the tryptamine category (isn't it very structurally similar to the tryptamines?) than I would say tryptamines, but I don't have enough experience with them to make a conclusion without that inclusion.

I do have some phen experience and I usually find them pretty mild and uninteresting aside from mescaline (and mdma, but for me it isn't so much psychedelic as it is entactogen).. especially the 2c's often time FEEL very "artificial" to me - which is interesting, since they are and I'm generally not one to subscribe to the chemical vs. natural divide, given that all drugs are chemical.

 

[Feste]

if we can include LSD in the tryptamine category (isn't it very structurally similar to the tryptamines?)

I think it has part of the tryptamine structure, but also part of the phen structure. So it's a bit of one & a bit of the other (or neither I guess).

 

[LushSummersDay]

Well I only have limited experience with each due to availability issues, but from what I have tried I would say that tryptamines win every time for me. Mescaline is great but as for all of the other ones I have had like MDMA or some of the 2C's I would say they are great for a rave or house party but have no real standing when put up against the greats like good old DMT or Psilocybin. Of course this is just my personal opinion and personally when I take something I want it to be an educational journey through conciousness rather than an artificial good time designed for my ego. But like I said this is just my personal opinion, and you guys also seem to have more experience with lost more of the chemicals on both sides of this discussion than I do so I suppose I should be listening to you. Although I might add that if it exists in nature we are probably meant to do it.