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Lysergamides The Big & Dandy LSD & Shroom Tolerance FAQ and Discussion Thread

I've used psychedelics like LSD with racetams like piracetam or aniracetam (which is much more effective for me), and I just used my usual dose like 750 mg. Aniracetam is more potent but I still always took a similar dose so I guess it's no wonder it is more effective.
Honestly I don't remember what kind of dose of LSD I took but 200 ug was not abnormal for me at the time.
Normally when one combines drugs it is not smart to take your usual dose of each, but to go lower. However I never considered nootropics as drugs and I did not expect a lowered dose to work out. I guess in my case it worked out because combining usual doses of each was fine, but I will not claim that this is recommended for everyone and it's entirely possible for someone to have a very extreme reaction. If you read Xorkoths report on piracetam with 2C-E you will probably understand what I mean:
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=48983

The only thing in general that I can say about the combo is that it was a lot easier to "get there" and just felt generally impressive. But there is nothing I can explain about it qualitatively, it just supported or potentiated the effects, but most of all the meditative clarity and not so much the sensory distortion / hallucinatory component. I guess the former is what gets you into an ego dissolved state anyway.

It's not as simple as agonists causing downregulation and antagonists causing upregulation. Antagonists would typically be anti-depressants and anti-psychotics and there isn't really evidence to say that such antagonists help with upregulation or normalisation. Since we can't rely on such things our poor understanding is mainly what makes it hard to solve this problem.
 
I also prefer the clear headed meditative state to distortions, etc. I am going to try Piracetam just like one hour before LSD to find out if I can see any difference. It might be difficult to say, I suppose, but anyway:) Thank you the info, Solipsis.

Someone on www.longecity.org forum reply to me:
"To prevent (or perhaps even reverse) downregulation:
Hyperforin (http://www.psych.yorku.ca/mirabella/4080/documents/11depressionstjohnswort.pdf)
NMDA antagonists"

Has anybody heard about it, tried it?
 
St. John's Wort is a common anti-depressant, it seems sketchy to me to combine with drugs although it is mild enough not to get lethal warnings all over the place.
NMDA antagonists include dissociative drugs like DXM and ketamine which are, of course, lots of fun. ;)
 
Solipsis said:
St. John's Wort is a common anti-depressant, it seems sketchy to me to combine with drugs although it is mild enough not to get lethal warnings all over the place.
NMDA antagonists include dissociative drugs like DXM and ketamine which are, of course, lots of fun. ;)
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Sounds interesting, although I don't want to use the drugs that are known to cause physiological dependency:-(
 
Hi.
i have one question.
I dropped acid for the 2nd time on 01/11/2014 (2 blotter, second after 4.5h..) My first trip was on new year eve(1blotter).
I'm planning to drop it again but I know about this tolerance and don't wanna waste my LSD.
So, how long should I wait before dropping it again, most probably : 2 blotters to get nice effects? I am not in such a hurry but I wanna just end my blotters for now...

thanks for answers!!
 
So (LSD):

Day 1. 1 Hit
Day 2. Nothing
Day 3. 1 Hit, .6 6 hours later .4 1 hour after that. (2 hits in total) Didn't reach anywhere near Day 1.
Day 4. ?

How many licks needed to get to the center of day 1's tootsiepop? I have a feelings it's 3-4, but am scared to push it quite that far.
 
Well day four is here. I'm considering dropping 2.8 hits off the back. Oh is it tempting, yesterday was so crazy for social reasons, but I still had fun!


Edit:

No longer really a consideration.
 
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It might seem like the dosage of the hits is not important because we could hypothetically talk about relative proportions between the dose taken on each day, but I think stronger trips produce relatively more tolerance if only because they are likely to produce more impressive experiences that cause psychological tolerance. It's hard to reproduce those feelings of novelty on a very short term, but it remains unclear if this is a global psychological effect of things feeling special and worthwhile or if we can narrow it down to a certain brain region like Nichols theorizes.
Many people are disappointed trying to trip more than once a week, there are after effects and it is just not the same unless you have really come down and gotten a bit drug-naieve again.

2.8 hits may not be that much if tripping for the 3rd time in 4 days when the day before 2 hits were not really effective. But results are unpredictable and you can only really go higher if you are ready to accept the full potential of the dosage you are taking. If you are not okay with dropping this high a dose in general then I don't think it's recommended. People do it anyway, for example with NBOMe compounds - very high doses are taken because of ridiculous tolerance, doses that are not really safe but due to reduced effects people are ignorant to that.
Again, a hit is not a measure of dose - but my ballpark guess would be more like 3-4. Better is just to wait, it will really be much nicer. The sooner you quit trying to make it happen anyway, the sooner your tolerance will have dropped.

But... your edit seems to mean that plans changed, so what do I know.
 
Solipsis said:
The sooner you quit trying to make it happen anyway, the sooner your tolerance will have dropped.

But... your edit seems to mean that plans changed, so what do I know.
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You know......

Everything. 5 Hits<1 hit a mere four days ago. At least I didn't get stupid enough to keep going and eat 2 more "just to see."

I think your advice is completely sound and should have been followed. Luckily I have 2 hits left still and and PLENTY of time to wait. I should just set a date like 5-16 and wait until then to trip again. Hell, I can probably acquire more blotter than then, but I'm sure after 17 days, 2 hits should put me where I want to be.

Thanks so much for the reply but your words of wisdom skipped me by like 5 hours, which unfortunately felt exactly like 5 hours ;)

5-16-14 (16-5-14 here anyway) it is then. :)
 
How much does the intensity of the trip affect tolerance? If I take this cactus extract and don't trip or have a light trip, should I still wait ~2 weeks for tolerance to go away? If I took an 8th tab of acid would the mere fact that it's acid in my body mean I'd need to take way more the next day or would it not affect my tolerance because it was too weak an effect?
 
Doldrugs said:
How much does the intensity of the trip affect tolerance? If I take this cactus extract and don't trip or have a light trip, should I still wait ~2 weeks for tolerance to go away? If I took an 8th tab of acid would the mere fact that it's acid in my body mean I'd need to take way more the next day or would it not affect my tolerance because it was too weak an effect?
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If it's not enough to make you trip, it's not likely to affect your tolerance. Anyway, it's always better to wait a couple of days if you can... And why would anyone take an 8th tab of acid??? ;)
 
edit: sorry for the gigantic wall of text. didnt realise it was so long as i was typing but i feel like it is important information.
TLDR; took 7g first night, two days later took 14.5g and the trip was 10x stronger than 7g. proceed with caution when doubling dosages to achieve similar effects from tripping 2 days.



sorry to bump an old post but i feel like i have some important information to share and made an account just to post it. been a lurker for the last 7 years or so and was aware of this post when i was thinking of a past experience. anyways here it goes:

last year sometime, on a friday night, i ate 7 grams of dried mushrooms. nice, pleasant trip. not the first time i've dosed in that range. the following sunday, i wanted to trip again (time off, nothing to do for a few days) and i remembered reading that i needed to take something like double your dose because of tolerance where the trips were so close together. i decided to pick up 14.5 grams of dried mushrooms thinking i would have an almost similar trip as i did on friday. i was honestly expecting to not be that high as friday because of the tolerance issues.

around 11pm sunday, i munched on the 14.5 grams within 10 minutes ( i really enjoy the taste of these yet despise 'edible' mushrooms ). about 30-45 minutes later it hit me like a ton of bricks. i had the most intense visuals i have ever had in my entire 8 years of experimentation. im used to having the usual visual distortions but this was more than that. shit was jumping out at me; i didn't even recognize my own bedroom. it was an entirely different room. crazy colors, sounds, kaleidoscope patterns, floating objects. it was really pretty. for about 2 hours ( i think ? ), i sat with half my body on my bed. legs on the bed, torso on the ground. i was drooling the entire time and could not move. i had lost my motor skills for a few hours. at one point i remember being in my kitchen shoving granola bar after granola bar into my mouth until i spit it all out because it was too much to chew, and laughing hysterically because of the state i was in. i remember crawling back to my bedroom because walking was difficult. at some point, roughly 3-4 hours later, the trip just ended. just like that, one minute i was in another dimension, and a minute later i was brought back to reality, ready for sleep. no comedown or after glow. just the end. that's all i remember from that trip as it was a year ago, but even the day after i felt like i had amnesia.

the point im trying to make is that although my trips were 48 hours apart and i doubled the dosage to make up for tolerance, the second trip was honestly 10x stronger than the original 7 grams. my thinking is the tolerance only matters in smaller (like 2 or 3 grams or so) doses, where as taking such a large amount, the tolerance issues dont really matter. this is my only post and this was my personal experience, so take my information with a grain of salt. i did not lose my mind or freak out. i like to think im in control and i know its the effects of the drugs and it will end in a few hours. i also have a strong mind and willpower and i quite enjoyed the beautiful imagery and do not think this had a negative effect on my mind, although interestingly enough, i have had to desire to trip again, even when they were offered for free. i feel like i accomplished something that night and dont feel the need to trip for a long time.

moral of the story, be careful when doubling your doses to make up for tolerances. i was a expecting a similar or less than satisfactory high compared to my first dose. although i personally enjoyed it( probably more fascinated and intrigued more than anything) be careful when doubling your doses due to tolerance, especially in high doses. you don't really know what to expect, and someone without a strong will and mind might freak out and have a bad trip. if you are prone to bad trips or issues like anxiety, please proceed with caution, you may end up in a terrifying situation.

sorry for the rambling but it is difficult to gather memories from that night. and sorry if something doesnt make sense, im typing this from my tablet and its not the easiest. take care.
 
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if i took a half eighth of shrooms in tea on Tuesday (didn't trip at all really) would I trip harder on LSD or more shrooms this weekend (4 days later)? And the last time I did LSD was 10 days ago.
 
I feel like shroom tolerance is partly cheap because I've been tripping hard lately. In the past month I've eaten over an oz of mushies. Last night I tripped on 10 grams and the night before 7. I've tripped 4 times on 7 grams without waiting a week in between and I still get fucked up. I don't know if it's just me, but I feel like these people taking month- 2 month breaks are ridiculous, I know everyone is different, but the tolerance in my opinion isn't that strong.
 
That you can compensate for tolerance by upping your dose is not really a convincing argument that tolerance isn't so significant. 10 grams is a pretty whopping dose, also dose-response curves must be taken into account, exceedingly higher doses of mushrooms can have extreme effects so they would also compensate quite a lot for tolerance.

Waiting something like 2 months is not for basic tolerance to psychedelic effect, but for the whole impact of the experience including things like the novelty factor. There's just no way that you can keep the novelty on the long term if you dose very frequently, at least I've never heard people say it wasn't an issue after a while.

It also depends on whether you trip occasionally but with little time in between sometime, or if you plan to keep it up for like a year. I've done both and I tried pushing it, and with any sort of keeping it up it felt like I more or less needed that week. If only to integrate trips that actually do have that impact.

A week is a standard rule of thumb type period, but yeah I'd personally say like 5 days is just wise to avoid suboptimal experiences. Apart from dropping fat doses which I am sure have impressive effects, dosing with only little time in between can work (unreliably), but I generally don't recommend it if only because of how often people report that it just wasn't as interesting even if it 'worked'. It's a waste of time and drugs, and compared to being more patient a bit of a shame imo. Meaning I'm virtually always glad in the end that I waited enough.

Waiting months or years yeah it can be quite special, but for most purposes not necessary no.
 
Solipsis said:
Hello fellow PD-ers!

---> FAQ to be inserted here, still! <---

Please help PD with composing a compact FAQ about LSD and mushrooms tolerance, there are quite often questions about this subject. You can contribute by using your personal experiences to estimate how much tolerance builds up after 1,2,4,7 and 14 days - only one or a couple of these periods also helps us.

The current plot for our averaged data!

2qvcw79.jpg


What this graph says - in short - is that if you trip some day then you would need to take almost 3 times as much the day after to achieve the same effect. Though consider that people with chronic tolerance probably also were included in the data.

You can use your own words or measure the amount of tolerance in the dosage needed to get the same results, i.e. 200% if you need twice to get just as high as the first time.
At least 1-2 weeks of clean time / abstinence pm forehand would be required for a good estimation.

We will average all answers and plot a neat graph of this to help people show what to expect when they want to trip again soon after an experience!

Of course there is less magic and all that but just try to compare the intensity of effects as objectively as you can as possible even though the experiences are so subjective.

:D Your help is really appreciated by the crew and all future users! :D
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So i took 110ug about 2 days ago, if i want to take the same dose, will it feel like a 60-80ug dose?
 
As it states: this graph was made by averaging estimations to give a closer estimation of what to expect than if you would have to distill it from discussion of a normal graph-less thread.

It could never be fully predicted because people react differently and tolerance may be relatively weaker if you are calculating from an initial trip that was on a dose or intensity that was not that strong.

But all that said: I guess it sounds about right that may happen. Whether you should compensate a lot by upping your dose actually depends on whether you are willing to afford risking a stronger trip if tolerance turns out to be mild this time. Don't rely too much on having tolerance unless you are fine with an intense trip anyway.

Also: it's normal to feel disappointed if you only wait 2 days between trips so the best way to go is to just wait.

Unfortunate if this reply comes too late. Would be interesting to know how it went. Plan ahead if you can... needing an answer from the forum straight away is far from ideal.
 
Solipsis said:
As it states: this graph was made by averaging estimations to give a closer estimation of what to expect than if you would have to distill it from discussion of a normal graph-less thread.

It could never be fully predicted because people react differently and tolerance may be relatively weaker if you are calculating from an initial trip that was on a dose or intensity that was not that strong.

But all that said: I guess it sounds about right that may happen. Whether you should compensate a lot by upping your dose actually depends on whether you are willing to afford risking a stronger trip if tolerance turns out to be mild this time. Don't rely too much on having tolerance unless you are fine with an intense trip anyway.

Also: it's normal to feel disappointed if you only wait 2 days between trips so the best way to go is to just wait.

Unfortunate if this reply comes too late. Would be interesting to know how it went. Plan ahead if you can... needing an answer from the forum straight away is far from ideal.
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Hey, Soli. I read a lot of your FAQs and just wanted to say good work, and thanks for the effort. Glad you're still here, and that mostly everyone else is too.

I definitely lurk here. I had since 2005 cuz of PR. :) Reading stuff here is still fun, haha.
 
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