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☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy DOC Thread - Third opinion

Volsam said:
^^^The 0.7mg redose at 3hrs increased the peak duration and duration in general. As for the intensity, its hard to say because at the same time I also got a cannabis joint going, so I did feel an increase of overall effects. 8)^^^I've used both garlic extracts and L-Arginine before, mostly with AL-LAD and with stimulants, also to combat the vasoconstriction. You gotta take them about 2 hours before tripping and more may be consumed during and/or after the trip. With L-Arginine you want to be careful as it spikes up your hormones and may make you aggressive (thus spoiling a trip), especially if you have a tendency to be so. Besides aforementioned, you can also use Magnesium (careful if you have a natural low blood pressure as it will lower it even more), Agmatine, dark chocolate (natural beans are preferred), cayenne pepper, cannabis and alcohol to dilate your blood vessels. I will try it out with DOC soon to see what works best with it and post my results! ;)I recommend large doses of 2C-P if you are looking for a very visual experience, nothing ever got me seeing such complex and long-sustained OEV's like 2C-P. Also combinations of 4-sub tryptamines (especially 4-Aco-MET) and mescaline or it's analogs are pretty colorful and visual for me. The most extreme OEV hallucinations are seen with smoked DMT and DPT for me - nothing comes even close, but they are quite short lived and might be very frightening and confusing.And yes, DOC is awesome! %)
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I absolutely love 2C-I and 2C-B but those are hard to come by the old fashioned way for myself recently....Very intense open eye visuals with both and I like the fact that they are so short in duration because of my busy lifestyle. Gotta go to work sometime...
 
Ah well if you're talking ego death experiences that's a different thing. I assumed, wrongly of course, you were simply mistaken and believing the media portrayed image of LSD as causing elephants and unicorns to appear!

I haven't had intensely visionary experiences with DOC like I have LSD but I've found the physicality of the drug to be capable of inducing intensely emotional spiritual experiences that I haven't found with any other psychedelic, LSD included. Emotions are experienced and stored in our body so it's pretty unsurprising that a chemical that manifests so strongly in our sensations would have such a propensity to cause intensely transformative and healing emotional encounters. The key is going into your body instead of your head though, in contrast to other psychs.
 
psy997 said:
Ah well if you're talking ego death experiences that's a different thing. I assumed, wrongly of course, you were simply mistaken and believing the media portrayed image of LSD as causing elephants and unicorns to appear!I haven't had intensely visionary experiences with DOC like I have LSD but I've found the physicality of the drug to be capable of inducing intensely emotional spiritual experiences that I haven't found with any other psychedelic, LSD included. Emotions are experienced and stored in our body so it's pretty unsurprising that a chemical that manifests so strongly in our sensations would have such a propensity to cause intensely transformative and healing emotional encounters. The key is going into your body instead of your head though, in contrast to other psychs.
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I can mirror this psy997, doc seems to be extremely emotionally healing and brings to surface whatever you have going on in your emotional body. Just a confirmation over here. I am really liking this forum, its been super helpful to have people who can put things into words better than some people that i know who have ingested this. I would classify doc more as an empathogen from now on.
 
^^ Agreed. Every time, DOC is an emotionally revealing thing, by the end I always feel as if I have worked through some stuff, especially if I engage in conversation. It has an extremely empowering and kind way of confronting you too.

Glad you joined and find it valuable to you. :) I joined Bluelight back when I had no one to talk to psychedelics about, and I was having profound experiences that I needed to talk about. I've been here ever since. :)
 
Interesting responses about DOC and true hallucinations, I've actually been wondering how others feel about this for a while now too.

First I will say, for me LSD does readily cause genuine hallucinations as long as the dose is high enough, even if it doesn't cause any sort of significant ego loss experience, but they are still not quite like the true hallucinations one would get on something like a deliriant, where I hear that term thrown around more commonly. On LSD if I ever don't realize that something is a hallucination, it's only because it's so detailed that I don't want to make any immediate judgments and end up doing something stupid or regrettable; this is completely different than on deliriants where I immediately accept almost any truly detailed hallucination as completely real and start interacting with it, but the second I realize that something is off it tends to vanish instantly, as if it actually was the false belief in its existence that kept it around. So, LSD has almost never done that exact sort of thing for me, but yes, I have had full-blown hallucinations on LSD, such as people around me, like sitting on the couches in the room or walking around in the forest with me, or animals and insects constantly crawling around in the grass or making loud calls or howls in the night, or tree branches hanging in the path that I constantly dodge as I see them at the last second and then realize they were never there to begin with. So that's my experience with that.

By comparison, I would actually say that for me DOC feels much more likely to cause these sorts of full-blown hallucinations for me at the same level of psychedelic psychological or euphoric effects than LSD, though at the same time also feels much more limited in its ability to push to the sorts of doses that would be required for the fully satisfying version of these effects, specifically due to the discomfort and possible safety risk that accompanies the physical side effects. I've only taken it at 2.5 mg so far, and that already had me feeling like crap, but it was already definitely pushing upon this level for me; at the peak I could close my eyes and see streams of people transforming from one to the next or flashing by in front of me and bird's-eye views of other worlds beginning to form in the distance, and a bit later during the plateau I was just sitting in my living room and watching crowds of transparent people and small animals like dogs just rushing around the room and especially in my peripheral vision leaving long neon tracers behind them, and I actually found this effect in particular to be much more deliriant-like than LSD has ever been for me.

That's just my personal experience, but I will also say that I've heard from others who used particularly large doses of DOC, and actually other DOx chemicals as well, that their hallucinations also could get this intense or more so, and I know there are at least one or two DOC reports on Erowid where the tripper literally goes delirious and starts behaving like they ate a bunch of datura seeds or something. So, ultimately I question whether many will find pushing DOC to such a point worth it when all factors are considered together, but nonetheless will say that I do feel fairly confident that many would genuinely be able to reach that level of extreme hallucination from it if they really wanted to.
 
Describing your true hallucinations on LSD reminded me of how when I did my follow-up dose of ibogaine after my flood dose, I experienced full-on hallucinations. I saw black and white smoke clouds that would drift around and would be where you'd expect them to be if they were moving independently of your vision when I'd look back. I saw these swarms of teey-tiny black dots that flew around like clouds of birds or schools of fish, in a synchronized whole, and they would reliably cluster around heat and the hotter it was, the more animated they would be moving. Also in the dark, when I stopped moving my gaze, very quickly a forest would grow around me, leaves next to my head, trees trunks, vines, and small scampering animals that would dart through my legs or past me. I knew the whole time that these were hallucinations but they were so detailed and consistent, and in the case of the dots, they seemed to be responding to actual properties of the physical world.
 
That sounds great. :) Especially the black dots correlating with heat patterns and such, I don't think I've ever seen that one myself.... Sounds like it'd be really cool to witness though. The rest all sounds very familiar to me, and would say that I feel it's quite likely that we're indeed describing the same sort of hallucination in general, at least at some point downstream even if the initiating mechanism is not the same and therefore the resulting expression is a little different. But yeah, that sort of natural scenery along with animals and other people are pretty much my most common types of complex hallucinations on psychedelics, it's part of why I love them so much. <3 Hmm, that definitely reignites some of my interest in ibogaine as well....
 
So, I'm just going to say it like this. what are your guys' typical, repeatable hallucinations on doc? I can get the persian carpet effect (morphing and shifting), intense trails, intensified colors, and vividly detailed vision. On closing my eyes I can get some patterns and fractals but I feel like I have to search for them. Not like 2c-x's where it is almost an overlay or some will become a fractal entity that can be walked around and viewed from different directions. I truly feel like the part of mescaline that Shuglin took out to make these new compounds took a large amount of the oev that I really enjoy. I wish in my future trips that I will be able to control the jitters and body tremors with l-arginine and garlic to where I can meditate in complete darkness like i have done in the past with mushrooms, peyote, peruvian torch and lsd.
 
For me I don't really trip for visuals, and I often don't get a lot of visuals, but I do find DOC to be quite visual. It seems to make things morph and shift, and then at higher doses it appears that there is an ooze of some sort that covers everything. If I wave my arm through the air, the ooze seems to move as if I was moving my arm through liquid. Similar to LSD but without the greater perspective shifting. I don't really get the "persian carpet" patterning of 2C-Xs from DOC. I find DOC to be quite visual but the visual effects seem like a side note to the mental effects.

I've also never really gotten a visual trip beyond an incredible saturation/variation in colors from mescaline.
 
During one particularly powerful trip, at the peak suddenly everything in my vision morphed into tiny tree frogs. The tree in front of me, the grass... all comprised of interlocking tree frogs. Everything kept its texture, color, etc., but it was like there was a sudden pattern laid over everything around me.

This has reoccurred a few times since, on DOC but also I think on LSD once.
 
I've noticed a remarkably sharp increase in tolerance with this substance. Haven't tripped since fourth of july and ate 2 1/2 tabs on friday 2 mg's each tab. Fantastic visuals, overlay of my subconscious religious figures... trails, intensified colors, had some ego death but it wasn't so overwhelming like it has been in the past. Whoever was telling me that its a trip into my body. I can definitely agree with this as I worked through a ton of repressed feelings with my mother that I have been holding in, with the help of my amazing wife that acted as a therapist almost to talk me through some different things that I've been working on in the family dynamics between her and I's two different upbringings and how we can do better for our children.I've been slowly weaning myself off of marijuana and beer for the past couple years, but its been difficult as I don't have the time for my usual stress relief's. Those being martial arts and meditation.... I have kids and a wife, so if any of you are married you might understand how the dynamics change when you've been with someone for eight years. I haven't smoked in over a month but the beer has been a few drinks every couple weeks or so.During this trip I was able to directly experience the web of consciousness that we all have, but more so, the contact high that my wife and son had while I was putting him to sleep. No matter what state I've been in, drinking some beers, high from a bowl of weed, or tripping out in the back yard, I've ALWAYS, helped take care of my kids.. make them food... change their diapers.. put them to sleep... if my wife asks for a helping hand. I'm not the kind of person who gets high around my kids whenever its just me watching them. But if my wife is there, and i've had a long day at work. I don't feel theres anything bad in smoking a joint out back, and throw myself on the couch to watch some movies.During this trip, I was able to see that contact high really is something that directly effect people more than a placebo would. It's a brain wave thing or something close to where the person WILL have the same effect as you. Pretty much solidified my feelings that if I am going to trip, its going to be my old way. In the woods, alone, or with a close fried. Camping, hiking or the like.My tolerance was absolutely zero when I dosed, so the speediness of doc really pronounced itself strongly. Not to say that the trip wasn't amazing, but it really helped me abolish my feelings of whether I should get my medical marijuana card or not. I don't want my kids to get high, just because I can't go hit the dojo.Doc is an amazing substance but it really a powerful one. I think xorkoth was saying that his girlfriend gets a contact high every time. I noticed my son was biting his fingernails which he never does, along with a few other things and I never wan't that to happen again. I would have never noticed the degree of contact high that people get if i wasn't tripping, but I'm sure theres an emulation factor from the contact with if i come inside stoned or buzzed. I don't do these things in front of them but thats all over for me now. I can't thank doc, for helping me directly experience that. Its been a culmination over the past years.
 
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Sitting on this one for awhile and curious-
I understand this is a long lasting psychedelic but to compare-
LSD and likeminded lysergamides have a long drop off after the peak that lingers where one is definitely still tripping but functional enough to go outside or draw etc. Does DOC just have a long come down or is it an an extremely long peak? At 12 hours is the peak over and its just 10 more hours of lingering trippyness?
 
There is a very long comedown, but I don't really think of it as a comedown with DOC, it's more like the second stage, where everything flows and I feel extremely articulate and inspired and basically really on point and in very good cheer. The peak lasts from like hour 3or 5 to hour 8, 9, 10... a higher dose makes the peak and overall trip last somewhat longer. The second stage lasts for up to 10 hours more for me. I can take DOC at noon and absolutely not be able to sleep without benzos until the next night. The next day I'll feel pretty frazzled so generally I do take some etiozlam when I want to go to bed. By then the trip is over except for a lingering headspace and inability to sleep. It really lasts a lot longer than LSD, longer than AMT even.

SynSerp said:
During this trip, I was able to see that contact high really is something that directly effect people more than a placebo would. It's a brain wave thing or something close to where the person WILL have the same effect as you.
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Totally agreed, the contact high is very real. I have had a friend who didn't know I was tripping (on DOC actually) describe the same visuals I was having of swirling clouds and he asked me if I slipped him any acid. I've seen it time and time again, and also experienced it.
 
Xorkoth said:
I have had a friend who didn't know I was tripping (on DOC actually) describe the same visuals I was having of swirling clouds and he asked me if I slipped him any acid.
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Wow, that is crazy !
I've experienced stuff like that but only on weed. Even through the phone, just a few days ago actually, I was pretty high and talking with my girl and she got in a very giggly in silly mood... I had to ask her if she had also smoked, lol :p
 
No potential dangers. I found the DOC to overpower the MDMA when I tried it but that was a long time ago and I had a lot of tolerance to everything.
 
MrRoot said:
Anyone combined DOC with MDMA?
Are there any potential dangers?
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If you are prone to have sharp rises in your blood pressure, I would avoid the combo. DOC may become very vasoconstrictive and MDMA may further escalate those issues. Besides, who needs MDMA when you have DOC?...=D


I have had such a blast last weekend with 2mg of DOC, preloaded with Magnesium, F-Phenibut, Phenibut, Agmatine, NAC and Arginine. In two hours or so I started really coming up with highly pronounced visuals - they were kind of Egyptian letters and scribes all over as OEVs, upon closing eyes demonic women with no eyes approached me and I eventually recognized them as my evil intentions, it was really therapeutic! Then I was shitting on the toilet for about two hours non-stop - it just kept coming and coming and coming... Never in my life I have taken such a long and huge dump! All the while I was laughing my ass off (quite literally)! =D

After the purge was over I felt God-like, very confident, full of energy and desire to do something so I biked for about 20 miles or so. Then my girl came from work and we went to the restaurant - I usually dont like to go out as I feel somewhat uncomfortable and awkward around many other people but man I was so social, so talkative! And not like with stupid coke and amp - I felt intelligent, very funny and conversations were never easier for me!

The dinner was a blast, then we vaporized a bunch of cannabis, watched a movie, had sex... the day was endless with DOC! I was up for about 30 hours or so and all the while feeling extremely euphoric and happy! No body load whatsoever this time, well, except the two hour ass purging...8:)!:D

I love DOC, this last time it really shined for me in all it's glory!
 
I once took 7.7 mg of DOC because "I had a tolerance to psychedelics from dosing LSD the day prior." After 8 hours, I took eight 125 mcg blotters of LSD. I tripped on DOC for about 36 hours straight, and the LSD wore off at about hour 24. The effects were very distinct; I could tell the LSD wore off and I was still tripping on DOC. DOC gave me an unpleasant smell and taste of "plastic" in everything I encountered during the trip. I've used DOC twice but I would definitely do it again. It is a super lucid visual psychedelic! 5 mg was definitely my sweet spot.
 
5mg is a ridiculously high dose, and that entire story sounds nothing short of reckless.
 
Yeah, definitely start low, at 1mg for your first time, unless you are well-versed with amphetamine psychedelics, they are quite a unique group, always keep in mind a very long come-up too and dont redose!

I was wondering about the ass purging effect, does the serotonin release (or inhibition) has something to do with that or perhaps 5HT-2B agonism? I have had similar effects (but nearly not as strong) with 6-APB and 2C-B-Fly too and wondering if it's a sign for toxicity of a drug, anybody knows?

Also thinking that maybe F-Phenibut does have something to do with serotonin as well. I have taken 2mg of DOC about a dozen times at least before but it was the first time with such strong effects and very pronounced visuals. Especially I remember those demonic women with no eyes that morphed out of glowing hieroglyphs that cracked up with blood and turned into those figures - it was like one of those very significant dreams but I was fully aware this time.
 
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