The Big & Dandy Brain Zaps / Brain Shivers Thread

[sub21lime]

I get these on 75% of MDMA experiences.

Usually when im trying to sleep. Quite uncomfortable if you ask me...

Same here but only after taking mdma for 2-3 days/nights in a row and They would last anywhere from 2 days to a month lol more often at night and when I would get really stressed or anxious. They only lasted 3-25 sec but every now and then I would get one soooo bad ( after binging hard) I would have to lay down. There were a couple times I almost went to the er cus I was so freaked out by them. Glad to know I wasn't alone

 

[heyachaps]

I had the most bizarre experience the night after doing MDMA for the first time.

So i'm asleep and I'm dreaming away about horses or something as equally irrelevant. I'm asleep and it felt like someone had thrown a handful of energy beans into the bed (my mind trying to rationalise it at the time!) and it was buzzing all around my body! I had the biggest shiver down the full length of my body I've ever experienced! I thought it was so intense my arms and legs were vibrating up and down! I woke up after thinking I was shaking like mad in my bed (maybe I was!?) and I thought aliens had tried to abduct me or something!

Anyway it gets weirder! I look over at my GF who also did MDMA that night, and she is shaking her whole body and wakes herself up crying saying she had a bizarre pulse down her body too! I calmed her down and remember saying "don't worry babe it will stop they will leave us alone in a second it will be fine!"...

That's a bit messed up that we both felt it at the same time ay!?

Also, these brain zaps you talk about. Is it like a popping sensation in your brain? Like a quick buzz and a pop which you can hear/feel? I remember that night having a few about a minute after redosing with a small amount of some kind of speed like stimulant after the MDMA come down (bad idea I know and I think my brain was trying to tell me with this weird buzz sensation too!)

 

[lyrae]

So, i THINK i got the brain zaps when on 20 mg 5-MEO-MIPT, an electrical "spike" through the head and especially temples, neck and mouth, continuing out to my fingers and lymphs. One of my most horrible experience since they were fairly strong, probably because i was tripping balls, but still. Also all my thought processes seemed to reset at every spike.

At the time i was horrified because i had no idea what brain zaps were, but since then ive read a lot to find out what happened and i think brain zaps is the thing. I also found out i have magnesium deficiency so ive begun eating that, and i plan to get omega-3 too. The zaps havent shown up since (four or five weeks) but i havent tripped either, and i am not so very keen on experiencing them again if i were to trip, so maybe i can avoid that by eating this stuff.

 

[stratbastard]

This is a vestibular reaction, effecting the inner ear relationship to the brain.... feels and sounds like a lightning bolt has hit your head and ZZZZZAAAPPPP! Quite a shock, and disabling if happening all the time. Can occur with opiate abuse (rare) and more commonly in older folks due to vestibular neuritis, superior canal dehiscence, acoustic neuroma, etc... these disorders are usually associated with vertigo/dizziness as well.

i think i know what your talking about.. a few times when i took 2ce, i would just feel fine and having thoughts, then all of a sudden i would like almost hear a loud electronic sound in my brain. i could feel it too. it was like i was kind of being electrocuted or something. very weird, kinda scary. only happened a few times while i was tripping tho. if it happened outside of the trips, i would really have second thoughts about whether or not i wanted to continue doing the drug in question. anyone have any more info about this and why it happens?

 

[twelvesevndi]

This is a vestibular reaction, effecting the inner ear relationship to the brain.... feels and sounds like a lightning bolt has hit your head and ZZZZZAAAPPPP! Quite a shock, and disabling if happening all the time. Can occur with opiate abuse (rare) and more commonly in older folks due to vestibular neuritis, superior canal dehiscence, acoustic neuroma, etc... these disorders are usually associated with vertigo/dizziness as well.

interesting... what makes you think this? Vertiginous symptoms don't actually seem even marginally related to what people describe as brain zaps. In fact, with regard to the inner ear, "vertigo" explicitly means a sensation of spinning or rotation... and i have seen a couple people with superior semicircular canal dehiscence and what they were describing was pretty different from what people in this thread are describing...

 

[Shaal]

Hi guys! I also have these side-effects! Here is a thread I posted on another forum before finding this one:

Hi everyone,

My hamster is posting here because he'd like to know if anyone besides him experiences this.

A few days ago my hamster has taken 550 mg of HBWR. Not in the form of seed, but 2 caps (but he won't tell the product name, he believes it's against the forum rules?). Two hours later my hamster started to feel the effects: the shadows in his room seemed darker than usual, and he was seeing movement in his peripheral vision field. Also he felt the usual nausea (mild).

And also the effect he wants to talk about: he thinks it can best be described as "brain zaps". It's like an electrical discharge is felt in his brain. It happens every 30 seconds or so. It lasts for about one second. It starts mild and builds up very quicly and then it's gone. Sometimes, two happen successively. He has gotten these on a lower dose (200mg) of HBWR (which were actually trigerring CEVs), and also on shrooms (15g fresh), but doesn't get them on S. divinorum. This is why he believes it's caused only by tryptamines. My hamster thinks it could be linked to serotonin activity or to the vasoconstriction caused by LSA. Apprently "brain zaps" are felt by people who whithdraw from SSRI's ("SSRI discontinuation syndrome" on Wikipedia). He believes LSA could cause "brain zaps" by mimicking the action of serotonin. Too much serotonin receptor activation would cause these "brain zaps". But withdrawal from SSRI's decreases the quantity of serotonin, so my hamster doesn't really understand.
This time it was really strong, and it was waking up my hamster while he was drifting into sleep. Actually it was so strong that it was causing a crackle in the eardrums each time the "brain-zap" was felt. Very uncomfortable, and slighlty scary.
My hamster has experienced similar sensations, when he had fever, or when waking up at night and yawning / pandiculating.

Has anyone besides my hamster gotten these?

P.S.: this night my hamster had also taken 2 Alprazolam, but the brain zaps were already there these times when he was only on tryptamines. Also he gets no side-effects ever from benzos. Also at 2 am he woke up feeling poisoned, and had to make himself vomit because he was feeling so bad.

 

[Shaal]

Honestly! Even the lightest Zap is unpleasant & I hate them. How on earth you could enjoy a Brain Zap is quite beyond my ability to fathom!



Hey friend! After a foul up with a recent RC released in the UK I have been doing quite a bit of research on the Brain Zaps phenomena. I am not entirely ready to post my discoveries but I can make a couple of suggestions for combating your Zaps. I'm sorry but I can't seem to put my finger on whats causing them for you but I'm certain that Serotonergic drugs either recreational or medicinal are the primary culprits. Long term use of either Ecstacy type drugs, or extened daily use of SSRI type drugs seem to cause Brain Zaps in some users. In most cases it's cessation of use that brings them on. Next in line seems to be the benzodiazepine series of anti-anxiety or sleeping drugs. These seem to bring Zaps in people who have a high tolerance & are likely to take higher doses. People who suffer Zaps from these drugs seem to have them while they are taking the meds as well as when they cease or taper them. I suspect that Xanax & it's UK legal, popular relative Etizolam to also be triggers for Brain Zaps. Obviously, through reading this thread I've come to the conclusion that in some cases Psychedelic drugs also appear to bring Brain Zaps, though they tend to be during the drug trip.

For recovery I have found rapid & surprising relief from the introduction of large amounts of fish oils to my diet. Bombarding my system with Omega 3, 6 & 9, increasing my intake of sea-food & fish & adding multi-vits & especially the B vitamins & Vitamin B12 eases my Brain Zaps within half an hour. Redosing fish oils or half a tin of tuna if Zaps return gets rid of them straight away. If I slack off & reduce my intake, the Zaps start worming their way back into my life. After recovering from my mistake with drugs the Zaps are minor & bearable even when they're at their worst!

I hope this helps in some way until I can collate ALL my data at which point I shall return to this thread.

One last word. I don't think they're deadly or anything but I also do not think it's healthy to suffer these. I believe they may be mini epileptic fits & might inidicate a propensity for seizures. If you can take action such as life-style changes that reduce Zaps, you should do it. If you find fish oils help, keep taking them. These Zap things could be completely harmless, even severe, long-term ones, but let's not assume that without any real evidence.

My Brain Zaps drug freak-out is described here :- http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/664058-Worrying-strange-amp-unpleasant-illness-with-brain-zaps!

Great post!

tl;dr:

In my opinion, from what I've experienced and what I've read in this thread, there seems to be two main causes for the brain-zaps:
1) Cessation / reduction of long-term use of drugs that increase the amount of serotonin (such as SSRI's or MDMA); which causes what could be called "chronic" brain-zaps, the ones that come back regularly for days / weeks after the cessation / reduction. This would be caused by the serotonin receptors that are less sensitive and not activated enough anymore.
2) Punctual use of psychedelic tryptamines, which would cause what could be called the "punctual" brain-zaps, the ones that occur during the trip. This would be caused by the serotonin receptors that are over-activated.

Then there's the benzodiazepine cause, which I can't say much about.

However I'm not a neurobiologist, so you shouldn't consider my word as the truth.

Long version (original post):

So in summary brain zaps seem to be caused by
a) MDMA / SSRI's; mainly from cessation of use (SSRI discontinuation syndrome)
b) Benzodiazepines, in people who have a high tolerance; from cessation of use and also during the "trip"
c) Psychedelic tryptamines; during the trip only.

Serotonine activity is clearly involved. Apparently the brain-zaps are triggered by:
1) Taking regularly a drug that reduces the reuptake of serotonine (which increases the levels of serotonine), such as SSRI's or MDMA; then stopping it or reducing. Simply said, this would decrease the levels of serotonine, thus decreasing the activation of the serotonine receptors (which also have been made less sensitive), and cause the "chronic" brain-zaps, the ones that take time to go away (a more complete explanation is given thereafter).
2) Taking punctually a psychedelic tryptamine. One could argue that psychedelic tryptamines could mimic the activity of serotonine (serotonine is a tryptamine after all), thus increasing the activation of the serotonine receptors, and cause the "ponctual" brain-zaps, the ones that are experienced during the trip.

So the brain-zaps could have two different and opposed causes:
1) Decreasing the activation of the serotonine receptors, after a long-term over-activation, causing the chronic brain-zaps.
2) Increasing the activation of the serotonine receptors for a short amount of time, causing punctual brain-zaps.

Point number 2) is pretty simple, but point 1) is more complex, and maybe this could be the explaination:
"Symptoms described as "brain zaps," "brain shocks," "brain shivers," "brain pulse-waves," "head shocks," "pulses," "flickers," or "cranial zings" are common withdrawal symptoms experienced during discontinuation (or reduction of dose) of antidepressant drugs. These result from a global downregulation of serotonin receptors in response to increased levels of serotonin in the synaptic cleft, but the specific mechanism through which this creates symptoms is not understood."(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSRI_discontinuation_syndrome).
This is not straight forward and I understood better when reading this:
"An example of downregulation is the cellular decrease in the number of receptors to a molecule, such as a hormone or neurotransmitter, which reduces the cell's sensitivity to the molecule. This phenomenon is an example of a locally acting negative feedback mechanism." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downregulation)

So: taking SSRI's / MDMA reduces the serotonin reuptake, which increases the serotonin amounts, which, when taken on the long term, decreases the amount of serotonin receptors (negative feedback mechanism), which decreases serotonin sensitivity. Then, you stop taking the drugs: the serotonin reuptake is no longer reduced, which means serotonin amounts are decreased, but the receptors are no longer sensitive enough to serotonin, and they need a higher amount of serotonin to function normally. So the the amount of whatever activity induced by the activation of the receptors is reduced, and the brain-zaps happen.

A few unknown points remain:
I have no idea how the benzodiazepines link to the brain-zaps.
I don't know if phenetylamines can cause "ponctual" brain-zaps. Apparently MDMA can (although the chronic brain-zaps from cessation of use are more important).
I don't know wether some tryptamines are more likely than others to trigger ponctual brain-zaps.
I don't know why some people are more sensitive to brain-zaps.
I don't know if other phenetylamines than MDMA trigger chronic brain-zaps from cessation of prolonge use.
Maybe MAOIs could also cause brain-zaps by increasing the amounts of serotonine. AMT, for example, is apparently a reuptake inhibitor and releasing agent of the main 3 monoamines: serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine. It is also a non-selective serotonin receptor agonist. It has reversible MAOI activity, and it has been known to cause brain-zaps from cessation of use (see Xorkoth, post #293 of this thread).

They talk about brain-zaps caused by Xanax (Alprazolamn, a benzodiazepine) and also anxiety here:
http://www.anxietycentre.com/FAQ/brain-zaps-electric-shock-symptom.shtml
According to some users, benzodiazepines make the zaps worse.

What I'm pretty sure about:
Tryptamines cause ponctual brain-zaps, by targeting the serotonin receptors. I've experienced them on psylocybin and LSA, but not on salvinorin. Salvinorin does not contain amine groups and has no action on the 5-HT2A serotonin receptor (the principal molecular target responsible for the actions of "classical" psychedelics such as LSD and mescaline). If I remember well, I've read reports reporting brain-zaps on LSD and DMT.
Not everyone is suceptible to ponctual brain-zaps while on tryptamines.

Relationship between sleep and brain-zaps:
These brain-zaps are different from the flash bangs / noise bangs / twitches that happen during the hypnagogic state. Like some people said, if you've experienced both, you can tell the difference.
EDIT: However, sleep "disorders" (in the form of hypnagogic twitches, falls, loud bangs, white flashes, hallucinations; but also sleep paralysis) and brain-zaps are likely to be related phenomena. Indeed, a lot of accounts of brain-zaps are associated with sleep (wether they happen while drifting off to sleep or after waking up in the middle of the night and / or being extremely tired). Furthermore, a lot of people who report brain-zaps also have sleep disorders.
As stated by alf meneas (post #296 of this thread): "[...] the fact that so many accounts of zaps are associated with sleep, and that there are so many similarities between these disordered sleep events (including paralysis) suggests to me [alf meneas] that they are likely to be related phenomena. Furthermore, many of the people who describe having zaps also describe sleep-disorders. This correlation may suggest a common factor, although it could be coincidental, or a different result of drug use. [...] I don't know enough about the brain chemistry of sleep to engage with this subject on a truly scientific level but the evidence (and my experience) suggests to me that hypnagogic events, bizarre night sleep events, and 'zaps' probably share a great many functional similarities, and may arise from pretty much the same underlying processes."
Interestingly, "punctual" brain-zaps (the ones caused by a punctual intake of a psychedelic tryptamine) seem to happen only during phases of deep relaxation / while drifting off to sleep; whereas "chronic" brain-zaps (the ones caused by cessation of use of a SSRI kind of drug) seem to also happen during the day, while totally conscious (e.g., see post #291 of this thread).

Relationship bewteen epileptic fits and brain-zaps:
"I did alot of research whilst investigating Zaps, on epileptic fits. I found descriptions of mild fits that are strikingly similar to the description of a zap. Also, both Benzo's & stimulants can bring petite mal fits in some people. I became convinced that a Brain Zap was a type of mild siezure." (Si Ingwe, post #302 of this thread).
See posts #276 and #302 of this thread for further information.

How to reduce the brain zaps:
According to Si Ingwe, fish oil supplements almost definitely seem to help.
"For recovery I have found rapid & surprising relief from the introduction of large amounts of fish oils to my diet. Bombarding my system with Omega 3, 6 & 9, increasing my intake of sea-food & fish & adding multi-vits & especially the B vitamins & Vitamin B12 eases my Brain Zaps within half an hour. Redosing fish oils or half a tin of tuna if Zaps return gets rid of them straight away. If I slack off & reduce my intake, the Zaps start worming their way back into my life. After recovering from my mistake with drugs the Zaps are minor & bearable even when they're at their worst!" (Si Ingwe, post#276 of this thread).
Also see post#302 of this thread.

What would be useful:
Making a list of means to reduce / stop the brain-zaps. A few have been given in this thread already.
Making a list of tryptamines and assessing the likeliness of this or that tryptamine to cause ponctual brain-zaps.
Understanding how the ponctual increase / long-term decrease of activation of serotonin receptors cause the ponctual / chronic brain-zaps (respectively).

I am not a neurobiologist, don't take my word for the truth. I'm just trying to bring some light on these brain-zaps. For me they kind of ruin the psychedelic experience. Also I've never experienced chronic brain-zaps, since I haven't taken SSRI's or MDMA on the long term.

Useful links / sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA#Long-term_effects_on_serotonin_and_dopamine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvinorin_A#Pharmacology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenethylamine#Pharmacology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryptamine#Tryptamine_derivatives
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSRI_discontinuation_syndrome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downregulation
http://www.anxietycentre.com/FAQ/brain-zaps-electric-shock-symptom.shtml

 

[Xorkoth]

Hey guys,

First time poster, really happy to find this thread and see that so many of you experienced something similar. Im a 25 year old male, not taking any medication, healthy and athletic. i do every now and then take certain substances (mild hallucinogenics, research chemicals, coke, xtc), maybe once every month or something. However, I was quite dumb and binged quite hard on both mdma and research chems (mainly methylone/4fmp) for a couple days straight on a music festival. Right now I cant believe I was such an idiot. I always thought I was quite 'untouchable' as I've never had any adverse effects from taking drugs.

However, the night after the festival I had trouble falling asleep and got some bad cases of sleep paralysis (which I've had before even without drugs). The second night after that I kept having these 'jolts' and horrible horrible sleep paralysis (8-10 times before actually falling asleep). Then the next day, so basically two days after taking something for the last time, I started getting the typical horrible brain zaps/electric shocks. They would get so intense that I would feel like I would fall over and I let out a little scream. Things that triggered them differed, but drinking something (I mean like, non-alcoholic) seemed to trigger it for instance. It was quite bad for a day and a half but the zaps almost dissapeared (meanwhile, it was almost impossible to sleep).

However, I still get an electric sensation hundreds of times a day, a slight tingle in my face, hand, fingers, body, even teeth sometimes and I feel kind of weird. Im sure some of you can relate. It just freaks me out and makes me feel uncomfortable when it happens in social settings.

My questions are:
1. For those who also had the shivers, how long did they last for you, days, weeks?
2. What helped relieve them or make them go away faster?

Thanks a lot in advance, Im starting to go a bit crazy and fearing this is going to be forever or something (however irratioinal that thought might be).

I have had episodes of brain zaps twice, both times from serotonin releaser abuse. The first time was with an MDMA binge I went on. For a month afterwards I had horrendous brain zaps throughout every single day, so bad that one would lead into another and one time I literally fell down during the deluge. It slowly got better as time went on. It was accompanied by horrific depression.

The other episode I had, well, episodes, were during my year of AMT abuse. When I'd take AMT for more than 2 days in a row, the next day I would begin having brain zaps, and the nights I would have sleep paralysis, similar to what you describe, 2-6 times before I went to sleep. And then I would have the most intense dreams I have ever had, as real as waking life, all centered around an internal or external apocalypse. It was a very intense experience. The AMT brain zaps lasted only 2-3 days, but the sheer number of them made it difficult to function throughout my day.

I couldn't figure out anything to help make them better in either case, but I could imagine 5-HTP or piracetam could help. But I'm hoping maybe someone else has tried that as at the time I didn't try either of those.

 

[Shaal]

I have had episodes of brain zaps twice, both times from serotonin releaser abuse. The first time was with an MDMA binge I went on. For a month afterwards I had horrendous brain zaps throughout every single day, so bad that one would lead into another and one time I literally fell down during the deluge. It slowly got better as time went on. It was accompanied by horrific depression.

The other episode I had, well, episodes, were during my year of AMT abuse. When I'd take AMT for more than 2 days in a row, the next day I would begin having brain zaps, and the nights I would have sleep paralysis, similar to what you describe, 2-6 times before I went to sleep. And then I would have the most intense dreams I have ever had, as real as waking life, all centered around an internal or external apocalypse. It was a very intense experience. The AMT brain zaps lasted only 2-3 days, but the sheer number of them made it difficult to function throughout my day.

I couldn't figure out anything to help make them better in either case, but I could imagine 5-HTP or piracetam could help. But I'm hoping maybe someone else has tried that as at the time I didn't try either of those.

Hey Xorkoth, apparently AMT is a reuptake inhibitor and releasing agent of serotonin, and it is also a serotonin receptor agonist, so it could increase the serotonin receptor activity by these two ways. Then when you stopped AMT your serotonin levels would have decreased, which would have caused brain-zaps. Did you experience brain-zaps shortly after taking AMT? Or only when you had stopped?

 

[Xorkoth]

I knew it was a releaser but I didn't know all of that, so thanks.

I didn't get any brain zaps from AMT at any stage, but for about a year (the whole 2007 year plus some of 2006) I was taking it at 40-60mg (or more) 3 or 4 days a week, or even more; once I took it 7 days in a row. That was the first time I got brain zaps, the 8th day I didn't take it and I was nearly crippled by brain zaps, it was so bad, I kept almost falling over because I would have them rapid-fire and I would nearly lose where I was or what I was doing. I also felt physically weak and incredibly tired and depressed during this time. The next day I had some brain zaps and the day after that I took 25mg and they went away and didn't come back. Until I got my next batch, and then I noticed every time I would take it more than 1 day in a row (which was still pretty often), I would have brain zaps the next day and that night I would have sleep paralysis and incredibly vivid but often terrifying dreams. That would last 1 or 2 days and I'd be back to normal.

With the MDMA binge, I had less frequent and less severe brain zaps, but regularly for an entire month, along with depression so bad I would just randomly cry all the time. It was a really horrible month, I shudder to think about it.

 

[Shaal]

Damn... I can imagine how horrible it can be. Do you feel a noise in your eardrums when the brain zaps happen? For me when they are strong enough it does this.
I'd say that you became less sensitive to serotonin because you had such high levels during a long time (negative feedback mechanism, the number of receptors is reduced), then when you stopped, the levels weren't high enough anymore and you felt depressed and got the brain zaps. It's interesting also that it's linked to sleep paralysis and dreams.
With MDMA it's the same mechanism (MDMA blocks the serotonin reuptake activity). The only time I tried MDMA, it didn't do anything to me and I was still depressed the next day.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah it's sort of like a super loud, noiseless noise, if that makes sense. Like a rushing, but internal, not an external noise.

 

[alf meneas]

These brain-zaps are different from the flash bangs / noise bangs / twitches that happen during the hypnagogic state.

Your post is brilliantly thorough, but I don't understand why you are so brusque about separating 'zaps' from these sleep-related events. I have always had frequent hypnagogic starts, physical twitches and 'falls' when going to sleep. Not every night, but many nights, both during and outside periods of frequent use of psychedelics and MDMA (never more than once or twice a week, for a couple of months at a time). I have never used antidepressants, or habitually used benzos or similar depressants, although I did use cannabis to help me sleep for many years. The starts I experience are not typically true zaps, that I concede, but the fact that so many accounts of zaps are associated with sleep, and that there are so many similarities between these disordered sleep events (including paralysis) suggests to me that they are likely to be related phenomena. Furthermore, many of the people who describe having zaps also describe sleep-disorders. This correlation may suggest a common factor, although it could be coincidental, or a different result of drug use.

I don't recall having zaps myself at any other time than during extreme (sober) sleep deprivation, or when very tired/trying to sleep having taken psychedelics. Possibly only lsd, but I couldn't say for certain. [The most recent (ill-advised) time I took acid I dropped too late and was staying with 'straight' friends. I ended up going to bed too early, having conned myself into thinking I'd smoked and drunk enough to sleep. Cue a couple of hours of lulling myself into a near-sleep state before 'BANG' a bomb would go off in my head and set my heart racing. In the end I had the sense to get up and continue the trip downstairs with a cup of tea!]

I don't know enough about the brain chemistry of sleep to engage with this subject on a truly scientific level but the evidence (and my experience) suggests to me that hypnagogic events, bizarre night sleep events, and 'zaps' probably share a great many functional similarities, and may arise from pretty much the same underlying processes.

 

[Xorkoth]

That is also my impression. I have always had sleep "falls", where you suddenly feel like you're falling and start awake, periodically. When I was young it happened a lot. It really doesn't happen anymore, interestingly. The "zap" and sleep paralysis feeling are different from sleep falls, but I would experience the falls as well during times of sleep paralysis/zaps.

 

[Shaal]

Hi alf meneas. Thanks for the feedback and also your useful opinion! I have included it in my post.
I completely agree that they are related. In my experience I have brain-zaps when drifting off to sleep or meditating (on a psychedelic) or, just recently, when waking up at night after having recently taken a psychedelic (I usually wkae up every night, because of nightmares, or just external noise, but this is new, I used to sleep very well, I think it's because I'm really stressed these days) and being extremely tired. Actually I just had some brain-zaps this night when waking up because of noise (someone was awake in the house) (I've taken HBWR 4 days ago). Interestingly, I also have sensations similar to brain-zaps when I have a strong fever (I've always had that).

Xorkoth, the brain-zaps that you got from cessation of MDMA/AMT, apparently you got them at any time of the day, and not only when falling asleep / waking up / being tired, right? Did you get any while in a "sleepy" state?
Also, the noise in the eardrums I was talking about, for me it's more like a "crackle" similar to what you get when you yawn (this is why in the begenning I thought that maybe the brain-zaps were linked to vasoconstriction caused by LSA).

The following is about sleep disorders and may go out of subject (relative to brain-zaps) (I'm telling my life a bit lol):
Also, since I am a kid, I've had hypnagogic twitches (very often), falls (often), "loud bangs" (less often), a big flash caused by an external noise (less often). I also have hypnagogic hallucinations when going to bed after having smoked weed. I hear continuously extremely complex and ever-morphing music that I forget a few seconds after (it's replaced by new melodies), and sometimes I have psychedelic imagery that goes with it (in the form of evolutive colourful diagrams. I think this may be since I've taken psychedelics). The music I hear is influenced by the music I've heard during the day (most of the time it's classical or techno). I also have sleep paralysis when wakening from nightmares (not that often). I also have had, very rarely, hallucinations when waking up in the middle of the night (very rare and extremely interesting). When I talk about hallucinations, I mean that one time I woke up and heard my sister's voice whispering my name (it was during a storm and my window was open. This scared the shit out of me). I called her and noone replied. She wasn't sleeping in that room anyway! Another time I had a nightmare about a big cat that was in the room I was sleeping in. I woke up, still sleep paralyzed, felt a presence very close to me. Then I felt a cat's paw on my arm and a cat's tongue licking my face! This scared the crap out of me, I got out of my paralysis, had a lot of trouble finding the light switch (I was couchsurfing at some people's place) and while searching for it, I could feel a big cat's presence on the table. Of course when I turned the light on there was nothing. These hallucinations happened while I was awake, not dreaming. If I was supersticious I would think these were ghosts or something. Actually, a lot of the times when I have sleep paralysis, it's because I woke up from a nightmare in which there was a presence observing me while I was sleeping (creepy, I know) (this is pretty recent and I think it's linked to stress). I also have always had very long and complex dreams (including reading books and comics! Similarly to the music hallucinations, I can't remember any of it afterwards), that are completely surreal but make a lot of sense. I dream of things such as dying and being in an infinite dark void, or being a spirit of the forest that is old of thousands of years. I very rarely have reality-like dreams. When I was a teenager I was having lucid dreams (or I should say lucid nightmares), that I gradually learnt to control (at first I became conscious that I was in a nightmare, then I could force myself to wake up, then I learnt to control the nightmare. In the end I could fly [by swimming in the air], use telekinesis and cut objects with my fingers. This is all gone now).
Except for the weed-induced hypnagogic audio hallucinations, all of this was way before I had taken any drugs.

 

[Si Dread]

Hey great work researching these wierd Goddamned things! First class work

I understand that some people report Zaps from using psychedelics, but I do wonder if, now that all empathogenic stimulants are collected in the MDMA Empathogens thread, if perhaps this thread might be better placed in that corner of BL, rather than this one... just an idea...

 

[Shaal]

Hey great work researching these wierd Goddamned things! First class work

I understand that some people report Zaps from using psychedelics, but I do wonder if, now that all empathogenic stimulants are collected in the MDMA Empathogens thread, if perhaps this thread might be better placed in that corner of BL, rather than this one... just an idea...

Hey Si Ingwe, I don't know if you're referring specifically to my post, but if you did, thanks. By the way, I haven't finished, I intend to go further when I have the time (soon I hope).
Apparently brain zaps are also felt by people who withdraw from SSRI's, so it doesn't seem to be restricted to empathogens. It seems to be a general syndrom linked to serotonin levels (and other molecules activating the serotonin receptors, such as psychedelic tryptamines) and thus serotonin receptor activation levels (also somehow related to sleep).

This bolt of energy started at my feet and surged up through my chest to my head extremely fast.

Interesting. Mine come from inside the head and are not felt anywhere else. It's like an electrical zap that buils up in less than one second. The strong ones are stunning. The feeling reminds me somehow of a bad fever, but concentrated in time. I do not get any internal noise (only a stimulation of the eardrums that causes a crackle). I wonder if it could actually be an electrical current or just a discharge of neurotransmitters.

 

[Si Dread]

Well, I caused my zaps by using a serotonergic stimulant called 5-mapb.

Almost all other stimulants make the zaps worse.

Benzodiazepines make the zaps worse.

I did alot of research whilst investigating Zaps, on epileptic fits. I found descriptions of mild fits that are strikingly similar to the description of a zap. Also, both Benzo's & stimulants can bring petite mal fits in some people. I became convinced that a Brain Zap was a type of mild siezure.

I posted all this on another board, where my experiences have been documented in detail. I'll just find the post & cut the relevant bit out for you to preruse -

Tingling & numbness in the fingers, part of my Brain Zaps, is called Paresthesia. Brain Zaps themselves have been attributed to Paresthesia but it's not entirely accurate.

Whats actually happening is something that people who suffer from certain forms of epilepsy get all the time, & it can be registered on a bog standard EEG machine. Epileptics suffer whats called an Epileptiform Discharge, which registers as varying degree's of "wave" or "spike" above what the brains usual activity represents on an EEG. The description of "waves" & "spikes" will be familiar to anyone who's had a Brain Zap, though of course with an EEG this refers to a printed read-out of the machines data. Sometimes, a person may suffer an Epileptiform Discharge & not actually "feel" it!

There are different kinds of Epileptiform Discharge (even sounds kinda electrical, doesn't it?) which account for differing symptoms, as described by different sufferers. Some people only get "Brain" zaps, others, like me, get them across the entire nervous system, Entire BODY Zaps! Some people get Spinal Zaps! Some people get the Zap & thats it, others get Zapped & then they're headachey, or tired for awhile. Some people can trigger their own Zaps by wiggling their open eyes! This reminds me of when a kid at school would have an Epileptic Fit coz he'd walked past some sunshine through a fence & the pattern & motion set him off!

Other similarities to some symptoms of Epilepsy exist. Some sufferers report a loss of cognition or decrease in awareness, others a strange taste in the mouth, others still vivid hallucinations (or vivid dreams if the event occurs at point of sleep, & this is very common!). These symptoms can apply equally to Brain Zaps as to an Epileptiform Discharge.

Omega 3 Fish Oil supplement almost definitely seems to help! Eat fish or neck fish free derivatives if you don't like fish. I've been pounding the Omega 3 & 6 oils & eating various fish since I read about it & my improvement has been quite marked! During the worst of my illness I was unable to eat. But I was hungry, & I wanted FISH!

I suspect that it really isn't healthy to suffer these, & if we think they aren't dangerous, it's probably because the biggest group of sufferers by far are those who've been prescribed SSRI's & the big old PR machine is already well into top gear! The medical establishment is busy protecting it's arse publically, while simultaneausly feigning ignorance about Brain Zaps from SSRI's & playing down the dangers to keep their drugs selling well! They need the money to come up with new, Flourine compounds they plan to poison the next generation with!

 

[Shaal]

Thanks for all that information Si Ingwe! That's a whole new part of the problem I hadn't considered. I included it in the post I had made (giving you credit of course )

About the benzodiazepines, that would explain why last time my brain-zaps were stronger than ever. I had taken 2 alprazolam and 550 mg of HBWR. I even had mild brain-zaps the night after when I woke up in the middle of the night.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah, it's very electric-feeling, it's definitely a feeling but not exactly sensory, I mean you can feel it and sort of hear it but it's like you're hearing it on the inside, not actually hearing it.