• MDMA &
    Empathogenic
    Drugs

    Welcome Guest!
  • MDMA Moderators:

The Big & Dandy 6-APB Thread (Part 5)

Ed Sheeran said:
One of my positives is that I'm a good observer of myself
Click to expand...

that is a blessing and a curse. if you really are sick, you'll notice right away and know what to do as you said. but psychedelics (especially lsd, mushrooms and so on, but also mdma, mda and 6-apb) sometimes cause various aftereffects with slight (or sometimes more obvious) alterations of perception for a few days or weeks (seldomly months). if you're a good observer you'll notice these things and start to worry about them, making the whole thing worse, while a great amount of people don't notice anything at all. i know from experience that this can lead to a great deal of anxiety. it helped me a great deal to know that it's only temporary and will go away quicker if i stop worrying about it.
 
don't know if it's a new batch but got some big pink 6-apb pellets from local head shop and they're fucking awesome! lovely smooth trippy high loads of visuals euphoric etc i'd do this over mdma any day :)
 
I usually dose 150mg of 6-APB at a time. The effects have been great. I have submitted several trip reports over the last few months. My last order of 6-APB took over a month to arrive. Actually, it never arrived. I just ordered some from a different vendor. I had been pre-loading all month with 100mg of 5-HTP a day.

I dosed 250mg of 6-APB, because I wanted to push the threshold. I'd yet to really see some of the kind of visuals I have heard others describe. My 6-APB came as a powder this time, and I weighed it out and filled 1.5 gelcaps, and swallowed them. Shortly afterward, dinner was finished being prepared, and I ate a simple meal of buttered wheat noodles.

Approx 40 minutes later and I was hit with the biggest waves I've ever experienced.

I was unbalanced. When I tried to talk it came out as a weak whimper. My eyes were dilated as far as ever. In fact, I really didn't know what to do with myself. I was just simply overcome. No nausea this time. It was smooth, powerful, and oh, MAN -- was it trippy this time.

Then suddenly, I experienced the best visuals I have ever experienced. Including those I've used on shrooms and LSD. It was straight up kaleidoscope fractals, mostly yellow and white, symmetrical bursting four ways from center, most apparent in the corners of my eyes. This included thick, snazzy trails that were intense. My body felt like it was brine-soaked cotton, and a low voltage current was coursing through it. I laid down. I got up. I laid down. I got up. Wave after wave after wave. My eyes darted back and forth frenetically, my jaw shook like a jackhammer. My fingers tapped out percussive Rachmaninoff-complex melodies and for some reason my pets wouldn't stay away from me. They kept sitting down next to me, staring at me, as if they knew something amazing was happening. They weren't concerned, just excited.

Whether it was the upped dose or I was using cut substances before, but this was exactly what I was looking for in pushing the threshold. The only thing I regret is forgetting to enjoy the N2O I had reserved for this event. (I've heard good things about nitrous oxide and psychedelics.)

Anyway... let me know if any of you have experienced THIS.
 
Sounds awesome :D I've come close to this with high doses (less weakness, visuals intense but not so much as that, I'd say..), excepted I puked at the beginning.
 
Nice report jag. I am going for 250mg next week powder. I've had doses 220-230 before but not had your full experience. I've taken to having htp daily Just cos I find it keeps my mood up. Possible trip benefits an added plus. I was wondering if others have had 250 mg plus and how that had been. Also wondered if anyone has experience of using two 125mg pellets and any perceived differences from powder. Cheers
 
There's certainly not been any official mention of such a move, but I would shocked if the cogs were not quietly turning given that the media linked a death to it last summer.
 
that's what i had guessed to . just normally in where i was when something starts floating about its only a month or so before its in the news properly
 
It always sucks to see something get banned but atleast we'll always have mdma around somewhere, although sometimes its tough to find..
 
I suspect preloading with ginger would help with nausea. And of course ye good olde herb.
 
...yesterday I had a 175mg daytrip(that dose pushed me in ++++ territory once) at massive outdoor mayday-techno-party. optional 7mg of 4-aco-dmt.
it was manageable but it's one the edge when there are many people. it's not anxious but the permanent onslaught of transferences is just a little bit too much (exhausting). in fact I spend most of the time on our blanket-base with co-trippers. didn't even visit the dancefloor. tried playing frisbee [usually very experienced] but the feedback between the emotion "*fear*; don't wanna hit anyone" and our physical/mental skills was too pronounced - generalization leads to typical 6-apb epiphany.
skipped the 4-aco-dmt. ;)
actual peak was 4-5 hours, but the aftereffects are generally worthwhile and enjoyable. there is no crash, not even a real comedown. after 10-12h you're just exhausted and want to sleep, which was still difficult (in spite of smoking joint after joint). felt enlightened enough to ride it out and skipped the benzo. today I'm still quite exhausted but no severe unwanted mental/physical effects whatsoever. feels ok as it is.

6-apb never lets me down. it's a wonderful substance. the emotional clarity is amazing. imo it's more a of learning experience or: sequence of learning experiences than "true [5-ht2a]psychedelics". 6-apb allows you to tackle everyday problems in a very grounded and natural but deep way - while covering you in a blanket of spiritual euphoria and serenity. <3

I'm really, really interested in mescaline (finding a suitable cactus is a hassle). can anyone compare the 2?
 
johannes kreisler said:
6-apb never lets me down. it's a wonderful substance. the emotional clarity is amazing. imo it's more a of learning experience or: sequence of learning experiences than "true [5-ht2a]psychedelics". 6-apb allows you to tackle everyday problems in a very grounded and natural but deep way - while covering you in a blanket of spiritual euphoria and serenity. <3
Click to expand...

Not bad! 150mg is my sweet spot for feeling that way. 200mg and more (as with the other night) and the psychedelia is too much to be that functional.
 
...yes; ime higher doses than 175mg [never went higher actually, as I was absolutely satisfied with that dose before] demand a safe setting. it was not overwhelming/uncomfortable this time but I think I would have gotten more out of it in a different setting - also felt a lot weaker than my previous 175mg experience, but that was ++++-territory...not easily reproducible.
obviously ymmv - for me this is mainly a therapeutic substance. or: too valuable to waste it for hedonistic purposes.

btw, I preloaded with: 3 days in advance 150mg of 5-htp, strong ginger tea, 4mg loperamide (having the shits on an outdoor festival, completely fucked up on a psychedelic substance is unfavorable ;)), god knows how much of magnesium before and during the experience and 1000mg of piracetam. everything was very clear&clean, no serious side effects. can't say much about the piracetam but at one point I remember I mentioned that "i can feel it but this setting is too fast to let it shine". piracetam will be involved in my next "safe setting"-experience for sure. for a many-people setting I'd probably skip it.


what about the side effects at 200mg? I guess the vasoconstriction and bruxsim do become an issue...?
 
Yes... And... it's been a couple of days, and today I've just been such a worrisome fellow. I'm just so damned worried about everything: finances, health... I never get this *hopelessly* worried and nervous -- anxious. I am pinning this on playing with the chemicals. I'm just telling myself that it's not nearly as bad as I think it is, I'm just taking it too hard.

OH MY GOD! I'M NOT TAKING IT TOO HARD. THINGS ARE REALLY BAD RIGHT NOW! OH MY GOD!!

Just kidding. That would suck, though, wouldn't it? :D

(This cheered me up.)
 
recently i was reading a bit about these x-APB compounds on wikipedia and found this:

6-APB is a triple monoamine reuptake inhibitor with Ki values of 117, 150 and 2698 for NET, DAT and SERT respectively as well as being a potent agonist for the 5-HT2B receptor (Ki 3.7nM).[1] The subjective effects and structure–activity relationship suggest that it is also a releasing agent.
Click to expand...

I always was under the impression that these drugs were monoamine releasers like MDMA and the like. are the wikipedia articles incorrect or not?
 
Bagseed said:
recently i was reading a bit about these x-APB compounds on wikipedia and found this:



I always was under the impression that these drugs were monoamine releasers like MDMA and the like. are the wikipedia articles incorrect or not?
Click to expand...

"There is now an abundance of evidence, both experimental and clinical, that MDMA and the other ring-substituted amphetamine derivatives act by increasing the net release of the monoamine neurotransmitters (serotonin, noradrenaline and, to a smaller extent, dopamine) from their respective axon terminals.3,26,27 MDMA does not act by directly releasing serotonin but, rather, by binding to, and thus blocking, the transporter involved in its reuptake.3,28,29" http://www.cmaj.ca/content/165/7/917.full

Some background information: There are a bunch of monoamine neurotransmitters in humans. Some are tryptamines, like serotonin and melatonin. Others are catecholamines, like dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine. There are also histamines and other trace amines.

The abbreviations NET, DAT, and SERT refer to different monamine transporters: norepinephrine transporters, dopamine transporters, and serotonin transporters, respectively.

"Ki is the symbol for the dissociation constant of an inhibitor; in enzyme kinetics, Kii reflects the values of Ki that affect the intercept of a double-reciprocal plot, whereas Kis reflects the values of Ki that affect the slope of the same plot." (http://www.biology-online.org/dictionary/Ki "The inhibitor constant Ki is the concentration of inhibitor which is required to decrease the maximal rate of the reaction to half of the uninhibited value, in the presence of a low substrate concentration. Therefore, the lower the Ki the lower the concentration of inhibitor needed to lower the rate." http://dwb4.unl.edu/Chem/CHEM869K/C...S/DEPT/biochemistry/kinetics/HTML/PAGE21.HTML

"In pharmacology, an "agonist" is a drug that has an affinity for and stimulates physiologic activity at cell receptors normally stimulated by naturally occurring substances." http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Agonists

However... "New findings that broaden the conventional definition of pharmacology demonstrate that ligands can concurrently behave as agonist and antagonists at the same receptor, depending on effector pathways or tissue type. Terms that describe this phenomenon are "functional selectivity", "protean agonism",[4][5] or selective receptor modulators.[6]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agonist Something interesting to keep in mind.

I have read all over the place that 6-APB is a serotonin releasing agent. (That's why it's nice to take 5-HTP afterward, to help restore depleted reserves.) My own experiences with 6-APB support this.

So, yep, 6-APB is both a monoamine reuptake inhibitor and thought to be a releasing agent of 5-HT (serotonin), DA (dopamine), and NE (norepinephrine).

I'm such a novice biochemist, but I want to learn! I'm confused about how Ki is measured. Can anyone help me understand this better?
 
Last edited:
Just A Guy said:
I have read all over the place that 6-APB is a serotonin releasing agent. (That's why it's nice to take 5-HTP afterward, to help restore depleted reserves.) My own experiences with 6-APB support this.

So, yep, 6-APB is both a powerful monoamine reuptake inhibitor (especially at 5-HT2) and thought to be a releasing agent of 5-HT (serotonin), DA (dopamine), and NE (norepinephrine).
Click to expand...

yes, it's mainly a releasing agent. the serotonin release is very likely mediated through the 5-HT2B receptor (look here; especially the footnote 3 is interesting). based on SSRIs attenuating or killing the entactogen effects (and the high Ki values for i.e. 6-APB for serotonin reuptake inhibition), i would even say that reuptake inhibition is working against serotonin release.

a reuptake inhibitor at 5-ht2 is impossible. reuptake inhibition means that it inhibits the function of SERT, which is not associated with specific serotonin receptors.
 
Black said:
a reuptake inhibitor at 5-ht2 is impossible. reuptake inhibition means that it inhibits the function of SERT, which is not associated with specific serotonin receptors.
Click to expand...

Aha! I was stared at my paragraph the other day, knowing that while I was typing it up I'd done something wrong, but even though I read it over and over again, I couldn't find it. Thanks. I'm going to fix it on my original post.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top