• Psychedelic Drugs Welcome Guest
    View threads about
    Posting RulesBluelight Rules
    PD's Best Threads Index
    Social ThreadSupport Bluelight
    Psychedelic Beginner's FAQ

Tryptamines The Big & Dandy 4-AcO-DMT Thread - Act Five

I
This is awful advice. This is a harm reduction website and throwing out insane dosages like that saying that one wasted time with normal dosages, and that physical and mental effects were minimal is the type of immature dick sizing that has no places in the psychedelic community. Calling someone clueless for not taking 300mg of pure 4-AcO-DMT is a bit of the pot calling the kettle black.
It can be very very dangerous to take psychedelic drugs at doses over 10x their traditional dose to achieve a +3 on the Shulgin scale.

Have you ever taken 4aco?

Im not talking about "psychedelic drugs" in general im talking 4aco because it has a special effect ive never noticed with any other psychedelic - a large dose is so different to a low dose its barely recognisable as the same drug.

Also, it isnt like lsd for example where it becomes more intense the higher the dose. , 300mg of 4aco is barely any different mentally to 100mg. Its a very calm psychedelic, by far the friendliest ive ever taken.

But i get the feeling this is a central plank of a lot of peoples drug belief system so i wont push it. All i know is if id stuck to the bullshit about "take 25mg" i would never have experienced the true nature of the drug.

Btw, i wasnt calling them clueless for not taking 300mg. I was saying if you are clueless then dont take doses you cant handle. Big difference.

And i must say that calling my advice "awful" was quite camp of you 😀
 
Last edited:
^^^
In fact, though my doses aren’t @Ismene2 high, I wish I could get off on less than I do/must... sure would save a lot of substance/cost lol

The more you take the better it gets 😀 its a totally different drug to lsd - you take too much lsd its physically and mentally unpleasant. You take 300mg of 4aco and the only effect is you dance harder and nature becomes even more astonishing.

And seeing as its dmt which both the brain and body appear to hunger for and is naturally made by the body and totally safe why not push the dose? It is pricey tho i agree. Fortunately it has a tolerance so once every 2-4 weeks is the most i can do.
 
This conversation about 4-AcO-DMT doses has been had more than a couple times, I’ve only gone up to 50mg (I don’t have any anymore so....) but even then there was a definite shift in character. All doses are great and have their use imo.
5mg once ‘cured’ someones cluster headaches for like a year.

You don’t experience much nausea @Ismene2 that high?
 
Starts off low dose is psilocybin-ish, then take more and its dmt, then take more and its "this is 4aco" 😁

I didnt used to experience nausea with the first batches of 4aco but this off white greyish stuff you buy nowadays can give me a retch or two but no vomiting. Also gives a 1-3 day headache which i never got with the early 4aco when it was only 70 quid a gram.
 
I do love the story that some kid took too much 4aco and his parents were stroking him to reassure him till the police arrived to "help"
 
Yeah I find that 4-AcO-DMT comes on faster than mushrooms or 4-HO-DMT (synthetic/pure). Another reason why I believe that it has effects of its own beyond merely being a prodrug.
 
@Xorkoth

How does dmt feel like? is any different than ayahuasca? i wanna hear ur point of view, i know on the social side ur a tarzan but on the drug side ur fuckin heisenberg
 
and why there's all these dmt strains? why can't it be just 1 like acid is and shrooms and other psychedelics
 
and why there's all these dmt strains? why can't it be just 1 like acid is and shrooms and other psychedelics

That's a question with a huge answer, and the question is flawed, because, like the many analogs of DMT (strains is not the right word, as it is represents a group of plants w/ similar characteristics, whereas analog is defined as "a compound with a molecular structure closely similar to another,") there are many analogs of LSD (like 1P-LSD), and 4-PO-HO-DMT¹ aka psilocybin--the main prodrug in shrooms "psilocybe cubensis" (like 4-AcO-DMT) and every substance out there.

Organic chemistry is one hell of a subject, and even after years of hobby study, I hardly comprehend it. lol But I think I understand enough to give you an analogy that might help make sense of this. (Like how the word analog is in there?)

So, let's see.

Pharmaceuticals (drugs) are usually made of organic molecules--which are made up of bonded atoms--that have an effect on the mechanisms of living creatures. Let's pretend that these drugs are balls.

Take a soccer ball, American football, baseball, and a billiards ball. They are all different sizes and shapes, some readily bounce, some are filled with air, some are round, and they behave differently when struck. The soccer ball and American football have similar mass, are both filled with air and bounce easily, and for the sake of this analogy be considered analogs, whereas the billiards ball and baseball have similar mass, are solid, don't bounce well, and behave similarly when struck, forthis example be considered analogs. But while these analogs share similar characteristics, and behave similarly in certain ways, they are still not the same. Each of the balls can be used in different ways, like pharmaceuticals (drugs). You can throw each of them at someone, and something's gonna happen. The structures of these balls will modify the effect on the person they are thrown at. And there are other variables, like the amount taken (velocity of the throw), route of administration (at what part of the body are you throwing), and the subject itself is a variable (how tough is the person being thrown at?), and more!

Balls A, B, C, & D, thrown at 40 mph at the same spot on a strong, muscular young person: Ouch, that football sure hurt more than the soccer ball did, but the soccer ball left a bigger bruise. Now let's throw the billiards ball and the baseball. The baseball hurt like hell, but that damn billiards ball's cracked some bones (due to it's greater inelasticity).

You'd expect the same experiment on an old, feeble person to cause much greater trauma.

Best I could come up with at the moment! Hope this helps.

Oh yeah, and some analogs have wildly different effects, or none at all.

Sorry, got carried away and ended up going beyond describing analogs to variables in cause and effect.



Outer space is cold and dark. So is the inside of your freezer. They are both cold and dark. Put a mug of warm beer in the freezer and it'll get cold, but put that same mug of beer in outer space and the shit will boil away!

¹In humans, 4-PO-HO-DMT (psilocybin) is converted into 4-HO-DMT (psilocin--which is the main psychoactive substance that provides the psychedelic experience from shrooms)--it's a prodrug, or a drug that's converted into a pharmacologically active drug. There are many prodrugs that are converted into different active substances after administration through one or more processes. Isn't that cool?
 
Last edited:
Yeah I find that 4-AcO-DMT comes on faster than mushrooms or 4-HO-DMT (synthetic/pure). Another reason why I believe that it has effects of its own beyond merely being a prodrug.
Oh yes, it doesn't even feel similar to mushrooms for me. The come-up of 4-AcO-DMT feels very close to a threshold DMT experience for me, and the rest of the trip is just its own thing.

Then again, I have to admit I haven't done mushrooms in well over 10 years... In the name of science I plan to grow some of my own soon (I've always wanted to) and test to see if this is all still true for me.
 
@Xorkoth

How does dmt feel like? is any different than ayahuasca? i wanna hear ur point of view, i know on the social side ur a tarzan but on the drug side ur fuckin heisenberg

It's hard to explain, but imagine blasting off in a rocket ship of fractals into space, while your body feels like it's crystallizing into geometric patterns. It launches you into a place where you are seeing and thinking about everything at the same time. It all happens in seconds and is very overwhelming, and then 10-15 minutes later you're already coming down.

and why there's all these dmt strains? why can't it be just 1 like acid is and shrooms and other psychedelics

There is only one DMT, 4-AcO-DMT is DMT with an acetoxy group on the 4th position of the indole ring. Mushrooms contain 4-HO-DMT, which is also called psilocin. There is also 5-MeO-DMT, which is also another substance that some things like toad venom contain (also some plants contain it).
 
One thing that took me off guard was that I started coming up 10 minutes after dosing (orally). Has anyone else experienced such a quick onset?
Yes! My trip the other day caught me by surprise. I'd say it wasn't quite 10mins, but by 15mins I was noticing those first hints of altered-ness - saturated colour and so on. I had a bit of food in my belly, so I suspect if I was fasted it would have come on in 10mins. Actually your report reminds me of a bunch of things from my own trip, I'll leave some comments in there.
 
Yeah I find that 4-AcO-DMT comes on faster than mushrooms or 4-HO-DMT (synthetic/pure). Another reason why I believe that it has effects of its own beyond merely being a prodrug.
Well that's probably just because it's a pure chemical and therefore can cleanly be absorbed to the bloodstream (as opposed with mushrooms which have the raw fungal matter as well)

Prodrugs also don't necessarily take effect any slower, heroin kicks faster than morphine, which it is a prodrug of. In fact the lipophilic acetyl group of both heroin and 4-AcO would allow it to kick in faster than morphine/4-HO-DMT
 
Xorkoth said:
Yeah I find that 4-AcO-DMT comes on faster than mushrooms or 4-HO-DMT (synthetic/pure). Another reason why I believe that it has effects of its own beyond merely being a prodrug.

Well that's probably just because it's a pure chemical and therefore can cleanly be absorbed to the bloodstream (as opposed with mushrooms which have the raw fungal matter as well)
I think Xorkoth was referring to synthesized 4-HO-DMT, so not related to the fungal matter...
 
I could believe if the faster onset/more rapid peak plasma levels could produce a different effect. However the fact that it feels exactly like smoked DMT in nature, albeit less intense and slower, vs the substantially different nature of effects from mushrooms and synthetic 4-HO-DMT, suggests to me that there is more at play.
 
One thing that took me off guard was that I started coming up 10 minutes after dosing (orally). Has anyone else experienced such a quick onset?
Yes, I get first alerts within 15 minutes every single time I dose psilacetin. In fact I don't think it's working if I'm not 100% into the trip by T+30min.
 
I think Xorkoth was referring to synthesized 4-HO-DMT, so not related to the fungal matter...
Idk synthesized psilo is pretty rare, even then it wasn't even my main point
I could believe if the faster onset/more rapid peak plasma levels could produce a different effect. However the fact that it feels exactly like smoked DMT in nature, albeit less intense and slower, vs the substantially different nature of effects from mushrooms and synthetic 4-HO-DMT, suggests to me that there is more at play.
Well it's not that simple, ayahuasca can feel quite different from smoked DMT, even though it's the same thing, mushrooms can also feel very much like smoked DMT (atleast at high enough doses), I'd bet you couldn't tell the difference between IV DMT and IV psilocybin, besides the duration. Furthermore, even the same psychedelic can be very different at different times, I haven't had two similar trips, so to think that one could accurate discern between completely different forms (mushroom vs powder) with likely different ROAs is just silly, why not trust basic pharmacology
 
Idk synthesized psilo is pretty rare, even then it wasn't even my main point

Well it's not that simple, ayahuasca can feel quite different from smoked DMT, even though it's the same thing, mushrooms can also feel very much like smoked DMT (atleast at high enough doses), I'd bet you couldn't tell the difference between IV DMT and IV psilocybin, besides the duration. Furthermore, even the same psychedelic can be very different at different times, I haven't had two similar trips, so to think that one could accurate discern between completely different forms (mushroom vs powder) with likely different ROAs is just silly, why not trust basic pharmacology

Ayahuasca is not just DMT, so comparing smoked DMT to it is not a good example.

What you're calling "basic pharmacology" is not so basic. Drug effects are the result of an extremely complex system of biochemical network effects.
 
Top