bjznoviskey
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Probably, but who cares
Phenethylamines The Big & Dandy 2C-B-Fly Thread
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Probably, but who cares
Kaleida
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Any drug you could possibly think of could be argued as being illegal in the US under the analogue laws if they really wanted to get you. Literally, everything. This is not an exaggeration.
Here's what our good old friend Dr. Shulgin has to say on the subject:
This legislation is called 'the Controlled Substance Analogue Enforcement Act of 1986' and is part of Public Law 99-570. It was signed into law on October 27, 1986, just days before the national elections, and the news and ramifications of it have been largely lost in the noise and drama of the political events of the time. I personally believe that this law presents a shameful barrier to a very important segment of scientific research.
Let me dissect this law into its two major parts. What is an analogue? And what is the behaviour, involving an analogue, that is criminal?
According to this law, a drug is an analogue if it meets any one of the following criteria:
First, the chemical structure of the drug is considered. The compound is an analogue if its structure is substantially similar to the structure of any listed Schedule I or II drug. Just what are the structures of the drugs that are contained in these two schedules? You can find a complete spectrum of functional groups. All four types of amines are present; primary amines, secondary amines, tertiary amines, and quarternary ammonum salts. All three types of alcohols are present; primary alcohols, secondary alcohols, and tertiary alcohols. There are acids, esters, ethers, amids, ketones, and nitriles.
There are examples of all the most common heterocyclic ring systems, such as pyridines, piperidines, pyrrolidines, indoles, imidazoles, morpholines, thiophenes, furans, pyrans, quinazolines, dioxoles, oxazolines, pyrimidines, and purines. And of course, there are simple benzene-ring aromatic compounds and there are simple non-benzene-ring aliphatic compounds including cyclopropyl rings, cyclobutyl rings, cyclopentyl rings, and cyclohexyl rings. One would be hard put to find a structure of any drug, anywhere, which could not be argued by some person, somewhere, as being in some way structurally related to a Schedule I or a Schedule II drug.
And what was the reason for the use of the intentionally vague phrase "substantially similar"? There is a term in rhetoric knows as a disclaimer, a word introduced as a hedge or a qualification, a word chosen to allow a certain freedom of interpretation. Words or phrases such as almost, probably, approximately, in a few days, in two weeks at the latest, are disclaimers. There is a measured ambiguity in the phrase "similar to" and there is a measured ambiguity in the phrase "substantially the same as." But what is to be inferred from "substantially similar"? Suddenly, the exactness, the precision of the original Controlled Substances Act, with its explicitly named drug targets, had been totally compromised.
A second, independent definition of an analogue deals with its pharmacological action. A drug is to legally considered as an analogue if it has a stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic action that is substantially similar to that of a Schedule I or Schedule II drug. In short, any drug which affects the CNS (central nervous system) in any of these ways, or in ways that could be construed as being "substantially similar" to those evoked by a scheduled drug, becomes an analogue within this legal definition. Again, the vague double disclaimer "substantially similar" must be reckoned with as part of the description.
A third definition is an extension of this, and involves the way a drug is represented. If a material is intentionally represented as having a stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic action that is substantially similar to that of a Schedule I or Schedule II drug, it becomes an analogue.
It is generally accepted that if two of these three definitions are met then the chemical or drug in question becomes a controlled substance analogue. The law explicitly states that there are four criteria, any of which will exclude it from becoming an analogue; if it is already a controlled substance, if it has an approved drug application, if a particular person has an exemption allowing him investigational use of that drug in question, or it is not intended for human consumption.
And what is the nature of one's behaviour with an analogue that shall constitute a criminal act? It is the intent to make it available for human consumption. And if such were to occur, the analogue would be treated as if it were a Schedule I drug.
Let me dissect this law into its two major parts. What is an analogue? And what is the behaviour, involving an analogue, that is criminal?
According to this law, a drug is an analogue if it meets any one of the following criteria:
First, the chemical structure of the drug is considered. The compound is an analogue if its structure is substantially similar to the structure of any listed Schedule I or II drug. Just what are the structures of the drugs that are contained in these two schedules? You can find a complete spectrum of functional groups. All four types of amines are present; primary amines, secondary amines, tertiary amines, and quarternary ammonum salts. All three types of alcohols are present; primary alcohols, secondary alcohols, and tertiary alcohols. There are acids, esters, ethers, amids, ketones, and nitriles.
There are examples of all the most common heterocyclic ring systems, such as pyridines, piperidines, pyrrolidines, indoles, imidazoles, morpholines, thiophenes, furans, pyrans, quinazolines, dioxoles, oxazolines, pyrimidines, and purines. And of course, there are simple benzene-ring aromatic compounds and there are simple non-benzene-ring aliphatic compounds including cyclopropyl rings, cyclobutyl rings, cyclopentyl rings, and cyclohexyl rings. One would be hard put to find a structure of any drug, anywhere, which could not be argued by some person, somewhere, as being in some way structurally related to a Schedule I or a Schedule II drug.
And what was the reason for the use of the intentionally vague phrase "substantially similar"? There is a term in rhetoric knows as a disclaimer, a word introduced as a hedge or a qualification, a word chosen to allow a certain freedom of interpretation. Words or phrases such as almost, probably, approximately, in a few days, in two weeks at the latest, are disclaimers. There is a measured ambiguity in the phrase "similar to" and there is a measured ambiguity in the phrase "substantially the same as." But what is to be inferred from "substantially similar"? Suddenly, the exactness, the precision of the original Controlled Substances Act, with its explicitly named drug targets, had been totally compromised.
A second, independent definition of an analogue deals with its pharmacological action. A drug is to legally considered as an analogue if it has a stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic action that is substantially similar to that of a Schedule I or Schedule II drug. In short, any drug which affects the CNS (central nervous system) in any of these ways, or in ways that could be construed as being "substantially similar" to those evoked by a scheduled drug, becomes an analogue within this legal definition. Again, the vague double disclaimer "substantially similar" must be reckoned with as part of the description.
A third definition is an extension of this, and involves the way a drug is represented. If a material is intentionally represented as having a stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic action that is substantially similar to that of a Schedule I or Schedule II drug, it becomes an analogue.
It is generally accepted that if two of these three definitions are met then the chemical or drug in question becomes a controlled substance analogue. The law explicitly states that there are four criteria, any of which will exclude it from becoming an analogue; if it is already a controlled substance, if it has an approved drug application, if a particular person has an exemption allowing him investigational use of that drug in question, or it is not intended for human consumption.
And what is the nature of one's behaviour with an analogue that shall constitute a criminal act? It is the intent to make it available for human consumption. And if such were to occur, the analogue would be treated as if it were a Schedule I drug.
Despite this, almost no one in the US seems to be important enough to get this kind of legal attention. Something being considered an analogue is not generally thought of as a significant risk, and has no bearing whatsoever on its status as a research chemical. Only molecules specifically made illegal disappear from that part of the market.
TheBlackPirate
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I agree almost any drug could receive prosecution under the Federal Analogue Act. I should include the United States does prosecute people busted with controlled substance analogues. Most of these cases never actually reach trial. About 6% of federal defendants in the United States receive legitimate trials and the other people plea guilty without trial. People plead guilty (often despite being innocent) because most of the people receiving trials loose. Less than a few percent of people convicted of federal crimes in the United States receive not guilty verdicts in their cases.
The United States aggressively arrests and prosecutes people involved with controlled substance analogues. Just look here.
The United States aggressively arrests and prosecutes people involved with controlled substance analogues. Just look here.
mescaphysicality94
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lol a lot of what came up was inmates getting hospitalized on synthetic cannabanoids, not sure why but I found that really funny. Not the fact that the were hospitalized but the fact they were using synthetic cannabanoids in jail.
Kaleida
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Yes, I should have been clearer with what I said. If you're going to be like distributing synthetic cannabinoids or something, you're definitely going to draw attention. But just distributing drugs in itself already puts you at significant risk in this country, and synthetic cannabinoids are so sensationalized in the news and considered something of an epidemic.... For something like obtaining small amounts of 2C-B-FLY for personal use, the risk seems to be really far, far less. Speaking only from what I have heard from many others, even customs does not generally seem to do anything about stopped small packages unless someone repeatedly orders to the same address even after already getting a warning, at which point they're really just asking for it.
This post should not be taken as a guarantee of safety, to anyone reading. It's just been the trends I have noticed up to this point in time, and even then, they are just trends. Exceptions do happen, and you never know for sure who is interested you and why.
Kl519
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I wouldn't say I'm reckless, but I'm definitely not the most careful or paranoid person on Earth (for better or worse).
If nothing happened to me, simply as a small-time consumer, I have a hard time believing the government will go after millions of other small-time users. Even the government considers dealers "a dime a dozen," although my point with that was that they have bigger fish to fry. However, that is where the trouble starts; when you have the intent to sell to make a profit. Consumers usually fly under the radar unless getting caught at a traffic stop, or somehow having a court order obtained to search or seize the person in question, which almost always means they have a suspected huge amount in the first place. (Hah, just watched a 4 hour court video, Apple vs FBI, so I'm wired with info at the moment). The FBI gets about 3 billion in funding every year, and it seems that they can't even get all of the "big fish" that they want. So, I don't see them wasting any time or resources going after a guy ordering 10 strips of eth-lad or whatever. Perhaps if the substance was considered highly deadly, then probably so.
I also have to point out that anything resembling a powdery substance will screw someone over, dealer or not. You could have a tiny amount or a bag full of it, and then you're screwed. That happened to someone I knew and he got locked up. Something like weed though, authorities don't give a crap unless you have a lot (where they will assume you're dealing). I'm just speaking as someone who lives in Cali though, so it might be different in other states/countries.
But anyway, let's not let the spin doctors try to strike some kind of "fear" in anyone, since we all know that doesn't work. And I'm not saying, "oh ok, don't take any precautions and go crazy" lol. Just be mindful, know what you're doing and accept the risks that come with it. And above all, no harm must come to yourself or others, otherwise the endeavor is counter productive and worthless to pursue. Whether physical or mental.
Ah, this is about 2C-B-Fly lol. Back on topic? It sounds like 2C-B itself is better, but...just an opinion.
It seems to have different effects anyway.
If nothing happened to me, simply as a small-time consumer, I have a hard time believing the government will go after millions of other small-time users. Even the government considers dealers "a dime a dozen," although my point with that was that they have bigger fish to fry. However, that is where the trouble starts; when you have the intent to sell to make a profit. Consumers usually fly under the radar unless getting caught at a traffic stop, or somehow having a court order obtained to search or seize the person in question, which almost always means they have a suspected huge amount in the first place. (Hah, just watched a 4 hour court video, Apple vs FBI, so I'm wired with info at the moment). The FBI gets about 3 billion in funding every year, and it seems that they can't even get all of the "big fish" that they want. So, I don't see them wasting any time or resources going after a guy ordering 10 strips of eth-lad or whatever. Perhaps if the substance was considered highly deadly, then probably so.
I also have to point out that anything resembling a powdery substance will screw someone over, dealer or not. You could have a tiny amount or a bag full of it, and then you're screwed. That happened to someone I knew and he got locked up. Something like weed though, authorities don't give a crap unless you have a lot (where they will assume you're dealing). I'm just speaking as someone who lives in Cali though, so it might be different in other states/countries.
But anyway, let's not let the spin doctors try to strike some kind of "fear" in anyone, since we all know that doesn't work. And I'm not saying, "oh ok, don't take any precautions and go crazy" lol. Just be mindful, know what you're doing and accept the risks that come with it. And above all, no harm must come to yourself or others, otherwise the endeavor is counter productive and worthless to pursue. Whether physical or mental.
Ah, this is about 2C-B-Fly lol. Back on topic? It sounds like 2C-B itself is better, but...just an opinion.
It seems to have different effects anyway.
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I took 10mg of this earlier in the week.
Took over an hour before I started to notice the effects and then it turned out to be stronger than I was expecting.
Music was enjoyable, giggly but I found it a bit sedating like aMT and really wanted a bit of stimulation too.
Can this be taken safely with a stimulant like 3-FPM? Maybe 5mg 2C-B-Fly and 100mg 3-FPM.
Took over an hour before I started to notice the effects and then it turned out to be stronger than I was expecting.
Music was enjoyable, giggly but I found it a bit sedating like aMT and really wanted a bit of stimulation too.
Can this be taken safely with a stimulant like 3-FPM? Maybe 5mg 2C-B-Fly and 100mg 3-FPM.
rainey
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I didn't add the picture. The picture is from user "rainey" in comment #347 on the previous page.
Here's the link: http://bluelight.org/vb/threads/225...Fly-Thread?p=13474266&viewfull=1#post13474266
I doubt rainey had any alternate motive. The color looks the same in both pictures. Perhaps rainey could reply and explain the reasoning they had when they chose only including the individual picture on Bluelight in the original comment.
The 1st pic is just the powder I simply posted the clear pic and NO there was no intention to distort anything I posted it here because the people here are far more expert than the people on the forum where it came from.
The person who accused me of trying to distort things jumped in and banned me for life for `trolling` ??? because I said `that's a fail then` because it certainly looked that way to me!
Never trolled anywhere in my life I am not some stupid kid I am almost 60 years old lol
This board I refer to is full of power crazy mods who ban anyone who says anything that might be taken as a suspicion of any of the vendors who post on that site. I have always thought it was those vendors who were paying for the site in the first place and have never trusted it.
I was interested in acquiring some of this stuff so thought I would ask some real experts if the black glob constituted a fail. That is why I posted the pic here.
I was open to being educated if it wasn`t a fail and I am sorry if I missed out any other vital info. The original tester said he `thought` he knew why it had turned black in the middle but he sounded like he didn't really know for sure.
The 3rd photo in my uneducated mind seemed also to look contaminated but I thought it was a photo of the test beginning to fade.
Why on earth would I have any hidden agenda or ulterior motive? I do know who brought this stuff to the uk and have nothing but respect for the people involved and have dealt with them in the past.
The person who decided I had committed such a serious offence that it warranted a lifetime ban is simply an over zealous idiot.
I am Scottish and blunt and to the point, I am not, and never have been, a troll, and take offence at this unjustified and unwarranted slander.
I was also very aware of the bromo dragonfly incident in years gone by and thought any slight deviation in the reagent test should be questioned.
TheBlackPirate...thank you for doubting the previous comment by niflheim you were replying to.
UPDATE: NIFLHEIM IS THE MODERATOR WHO BANNED ME FROM `THE OTHER` SITE AFTER I QUESTIONED THE VALIDITY OF THE 2 CB FLY.
HE THEN POSTS HERE THAT MY SUSPICIONS WERE MALICIOUS AND THAT I WAS TROLLING????
IT HAS JUST BEEN POSTED ON THAT SAME SITE THAT HE IS THE OWNER OF THE SITE THAT SYNTHED/SELLS THE 2 CB FLY. THIS IS REPORTED BY A MEMBER OF 2 YEARS AND OVER 400 POSTS.
HE/SHE IS NOT ALONE ANOTHER POST SAYS THE SAME THING ABOUT VENDORS RUNNING THE SITE. (posted 3hrs ago what`s the bet it gets removed soon)
SEEMS MY SUSPICIONS OF VENDORS RUNNING THE SITE ARE POSSIBLY CORRECT AS OTHER MODERATORS HAVE ALSO BEEN NAMED AND LINKED TO 2 OTHER UK VENDORS.
I first became suspicious years ago when they banned a good guy because he kept posting great European sites that had better quality/better prices than uk vendors.
They then introduced a ban which said you cannot mention a site that sells uk illegals effectively meaning you cannot name ANY European site.
So obvious the site is being run by uk vendors.
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yepyepwoah
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I think the US doesnt prosecute analog cases that much because they are afraid of losing. Having that turn into case law that negates their stupid analog act.
That being said the fear is real here. It is easy to say go to trial if you are innocent. Except when you get offered a plea and kniw statisticaly if you go to trial, you lose, and get 3-5x what they last offered you. I always thought I would say "fuck it, lets do trial". Nope, have not ever regreted that decision either.
That being said the fear is real here. It is easy to say go to trial if you are innocent. Except when you get offered a plea and kniw statisticaly if you go to trial, you lose, and get 3-5x what they last offered you. I always thought I would say "fuck it, lets do trial". Nope, have not ever regreted that decision either.
This is definitely more potent than normal 2cb as at least listed for a thresehold doses of normal 2cb is around 5mg where as when I took approx 5mg of the 2cb-fly I got much more than a thresehold affect as I had ++ visuals and equal if not more body stimulation than being on lsd (house mate reported that it had the same stim as md but didn't have the push factor so he could chill if he wanted to or dance the night away )
Dropped at 8.10
+1 mood is lifted don't fell sleepy or drowsy after smoking a joint . Becoming more talkative . My house mate feels the same as he does at the beginning of an mdma come-up I just feel more energised and happy
+2 the effects are definantly coming on stronger music sounds incredible and I feel amazing . Watch some videos of space with the startrek opening speech which gave us both the chills . The visual aspect was starting to present its self nicely with everything lookin more and more stunning as time progressed
+3-6 this was the peak which was much more of the same but stronger we went on a dander to a friends which looked class seeing all the lights reflecting off the ground and the path wibbiling about a bit . We found grass definatly potenated the trip substantially seemingly bringing us up higher for a period of time but the period which felt stronger afterwards could have also been contributed to the wave effect of the fly. Socialising was very easy at no point did I feel anxiety when there was several people cramped into a wee room to smoke in . My thoughts throughout the trip were pretty much all positive or at least neautral didn't feel bad at any point as well as just having a feeling of euphoria and smile that couldn't be taken of my face . Also very giggly . I also ate some fruit during this period and found it went down easily although I didn't feel hungry till the come down phase . CEVs were apprent but my housemate seemed to experience stronger cevs from his descriptions (he had consumed the other half of the 10mg pellet)
+7-10 somewhere around 7 it very gradually began coming down which was delayed with a little psychedlic burst for a while when we smoked more which meant at times it was hard to tell if you were coming down or just riding another wave but this stage was still blissful and fun even though we were on our way down . By about your 8/9 I was pretty much baseline with a very positive feeling and again got after effects when I smoked before sleeping . I got to bed around 6am although I reckon I could have slept from about hr8/9 but was content watching stuff on tv .
Over all I'm not sure whether my house mate and I are both sensitive to the compund or it's just that dam potent . Personally I find myself sensitive to tryptamimes and lysegamides as does my house mate to md But I did enjoy myself a great deal and I'll indeed be ordering more before the ban as id like maybe to be able to hold into 20 or so of these just taking halfs and partying . Oh on another note my house mate had since told me that he found he felt very honest and up front during conversation showing a potential for psychotherapy
Dropped at 8.10
+1 mood is lifted don't fell sleepy or drowsy after smoking a joint . Becoming more talkative . My house mate feels the same as he does at the beginning of an mdma come-up I just feel more energised and happy
+2 the effects are definantly coming on stronger music sounds incredible and I feel amazing . Watch some videos of space with the startrek opening speech which gave us both the chills . The visual aspect was starting to present its self nicely with everything lookin more and more stunning as time progressed
+3-6 this was the peak which was much more of the same but stronger we went on a dander to a friends which looked class seeing all the lights reflecting off the ground and the path wibbiling about a bit . We found grass definatly potenated the trip substantially seemingly bringing us up higher for a period of time but the period which felt stronger afterwards could have also been contributed to the wave effect of the fly. Socialising was very easy at no point did I feel anxiety when there was several people cramped into a wee room to smoke in . My thoughts throughout the trip were pretty much all positive or at least neautral didn't feel bad at any point as well as just having a feeling of euphoria and smile that couldn't be taken of my face . Also very giggly . I also ate some fruit during this period and found it went down easily although I didn't feel hungry till the come down phase . CEVs were apprent but my housemate seemed to experience stronger cevs from his descriptions (he had consumed the other half of the 10mg pellet)
+7-10 somewhere around 7 it very gradually began coming down which was delayed with a little psychedlic burst for a while when we smoked more which meant at times it was hard to tell if you were coming down or just riding another wave but this stage was still blissful and fun even though we were on our way down . By about your 8/9 I was pretty much baseline with a very positive feeling and again got after effects when I smoked before sleeping . I got to bed around 6am although I reckon I could have slept from about hr8/9 but was content watching stuff on tv .
Over all I'm not sure whether my house mate and I are both sensitive to the compund or it's just that dam potent . Personally I find myself sensitive to tryptamimes and lysegamides as does my house mate to md But I did enjoy myself a great deal and I'll indeed be ordering more before the ban as id like maybe to be able to hold into 20 or so of these just taking halfs and partying . Oh on another note my house mate had since told me that he found he felt very honest and up front during conversation showing a potential for psychotherapy
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Just got my order of 5x10mg 2c-b-fly pellets from a trusted vendor. Not gonna try for a couple weeks cuz am testing other substance today. I still am a bit scared to try it cuz of the famous mislabeling incident. Altho on the other hand cant wait to try it because i liked bk-2c-b and from what i read i understand 2c-b-fly should be much better
I took 20mg orally about half an hr ago, no effects yet. I know its a high dose but having what i consider moderate experience with 1p-lsd and bk-2c-b and also the fact that i have tried 5-meo-dibf which was a big dissapointment two days ago i think it should be fine
A friend of mine conducted an NMR-analysis and it is pure 2C-B-FLY I can't tell you how pure exactly but if anybody is interested I will ask NMR-Chemist to participate in this disussion. Well I am quite happy I have been looking for 2C-B-FLY for ages now.. finally the first FLY in my ever growing collection .
I did try it yesterday at 10mg and it was qualitatively a lot like 2C-B. The overall duration was about 9-10h, I was quite nauseated at the beginning but did not vomit or anything.. Visual activity was almost non-existant at that level.. I don't know if it is comparable but I need >30mg 2C-B to get any visuals at all. Anyways thanks to that crazy reptile for making this possible.
. I did try it yesterday at 10mg and it was qualitatively a lot like 2C-B. The overall duration was about 9-10h, I was quite nauseated at the beginning but did not vomit or anything.. Visual activity was almost non-existant at that level.. I don't know if it is comparable but I need >30mg 2C-B to get any visuals at all. Anyways thanks to that crazy reptile for making this possible.
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InterestingFACT
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This thought has occurred to me, and it could be something on the prosecutor's mind, but the reality is that the US does prosecute under the Analog Act all the time. It just happens against dealers/vendors/distributors, rather than private buyers. And the vast vast majority of cases are settled either prior to or early during court proceedings, so that there really isn't much opportunity to test it as case law.
As for why it's not enforced on private buyers? Reason 1: money. You have to prove what it is, then prove it's both structurally and effectually analogous or being misrepresented as such, prove intent to consume or distribute. All of these take time, money, and are sufficiently subjective to mean allow reasonable challenges and appeals in court proceedings, which means more money. This is totally different from a conventional drug: you just do a field test to confirm suspicion of intoxication, do a reagent test to get s prelimary positive and allow a legal arrest, send it out to a lab, and it's an open and shut case the day the lab results come back.
Second reason: Analoge Act is federal, not local. Local police can't charge you for violatin the analogue act. They can investigate federal crimes, and they can notify the FBI and/or cooperate with the FBI in investigating federal crimes, and they can even seize your shit for the federal government (without due process, since objects don't have rights... but apparently can still be charged in court) in order to get a nice little kickback for themselves. But they can't actually charge you with anything just for having a controlled substance analogue. First of all: they're legal to buy and possess--just not to consume or distribute (and the interpretive element there ensured that any criminal charges will involve messy court battles which means time and money). Secondly, they just can't charge you for violating federal law--it's not their jurisdiction. They can only charge you for violating local laws (most of which don't include true Analoge Act analogues but mostly consist of periodically updated ban-lists) and/or notify the FBI. But the FBI doesn't give a shit whether John Doe likes to take MXE on weekends--they're very much more concerned about Eric Chang making a fortune out of manufacturing and exporting hundreds of kilograms of unknown, addictive, and potentially
extremely dangerous drugs. Because on that scale it's worth the money to do something about it. They also care about the black kid smoking a joint at the park, because he's black and he must be up to something terrible, and therefore costs become irrelevant.
On the other hand, if you're caught with a baggie of weed and a vial of some tryptamine, they'll quite possibly just charge you for the weed and leave the other stuff alone--too much paperwork. Hell, if they do decide to seize and test it, you can head back to the police station and pick your vial of drugs to take back home, once they get lab results back (I remember a thread on this board several years ago where someone did just that). Worst case scenario you get presumptively charged with possession and/or intent to distribute whatever drug they think it happens to look like--but then it gets thrown out when the test results come back, unless they can make a very good case that you were pretending it was something illegal.
pofacedhoe
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no
people have had limbs go necrotic and nearly die from DOx overdoses, thats a big complication that could irreversably fuck up your life so stop downplaying it
the margin of danger will be different for everyone and those are some pretty bad side effects of carelessness which as you know is something a lot of people struggle with.
lots of people cannot drink without some kind of bad behaviour or lack of control regarding intake
InterestingFACT
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I fully acknowledge that DOx chemicals are less forgiving than LSD, their 2C cousins (except a handful of the 4-thio-sub variants) or tryptamines (except a few of the 5-methoxylated variants).
This being said... DOx drugs still have a larger therapeutic index than the majority of legally available prescription drugs. The difference here is drastic: with an NBOMe, you can eat a dose twice as large as you intended and maybe die... With DOx we have cases of people eating doses more than an order of magnitude greater than they intended... and getting away with just a few amputated toes. That's amazing. It's shocking. It's actually incredible how safe they are--and even more incredible that many other psychedelics are even safer.
FYI: LSD being the only relatively verifiable exception, many lysergamides are also quite dangerous in overdose--some (like the natural LSAs extractable from morning glory or Hawaiian baby woodrose--ergotamine and ergonometrine) are just downright dangerous even at typical recreational doses. Others, like LSZ and ETH-LAD, are pretty ok at the right dose but ramp up in bodyload quite rapidly with escalating doses. And given its lack of potency and sedative action, I suspect LSM has the lowest therapeutic index of the bunch.
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Incunabula
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Are you talking about that guy who took several 100's of mg's of DOC over several days, in combination with large amounts of allylescaline? Couple of mg's of DOx never made anyone loose their limbs.
Yes, don't downplay the dangers, but don't overplay them either. If you really must debate the topic, do it in the thread I already linked to! Not here.
TheBlackPirate
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Yeah, most of the news stories describing people in prison over personal amounts of research chemicals were charged with murder once the people they shared them with died. This is the risk people take sharing research chemicals with friends. Perhaps others plead guilty in simple possession situations they didn't make the news. Perhaps the only news worth events were the murder cases.
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kidklmx
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Today I sampled this material at 16mg. Here are some qualitative comments:
T-10.00 Tried to dissolve 100mg of 2C-B-FLY in 10ml, which didn't work out at first, but heat and stirring allowed the solution to form. Will have to check later to see if the material stayed in solution.
T+0.00 16mg of material down the hatch. Bon voyage!
T+00.20 Smoked some cannabis as per the usual for my psychedelic trips
T+00.30 Definitely some activity beyond just being stoned
T+00.40 Dilated pupils, some euphoria. Time to take a shower!
T+01.30 Some visual activity noted, ++ (?)
T+02.00 Definitely not very stimulating. Mentally not challenging at all. Mind state reminds me a bit of meditation, with the flowing of thoughts and clearheaded headspace. Good for just hanging out, which is what I'm doing right now. I might have some tolerance due to last week's endeavors.
T+03.00 Turning on some music revealed a whole hidden dimension of body sensations. More active than I believed it to be at first.
From this point on I stopped taking notes because this wasn't gonna develop anything more and at T+6.00 I was even able to fall asleep. I like this material for what it is, but it is definitely a light one. The lack of stimulation was very nice though, feels good on the body. Haven't tried socializing but I believe opening up to others would be easier than sober. I might try a 20-30mg dose in the future, but who knows if I'll further pursue this material. I think I have this area of psychedelics covered and with it's price...
Right now at T+12 I still feel very mellow and chilled out. Maybe the headspace relieved some stress and anxiety that I feel during day to day life, in the same way that meditating works. I like it but nothing too amazing. Further trials will be done in the summer to capitalize on the relaxed feeling.
T-10.00 Tried to dissolve 100mg of 2C-B-FLY in 10ml, which didn't work out at first, but heat and stirring allowed the solution to form. Will have to check later to see if the material stayed in solution.
T+0.00 16mg of material down the hatch. Bon voyage!
T+00.20 Smoked some cannabis as per the usual for my psychedelic trips
T+00.30 Definitely some activity beyond just being stoned
T+00.40 Dilated pupils, some euphoria. Time to take a shower!
T+01.30 Some visual activity noted, ++ (?)
T+02.00 Definitely not very stimulating. Mentally not challenging at all. Mind state reminds me a bit of meditation, with the flowing of thoughts and clearheaded headspace. Good for just hanging out, which is what I'm doing right now. I might have some tolerance due to last week's endeavors.
T+03.00 Turning on some music revealed a whole hidden dimension of body sensations. More active than I believed it to be at first.
From this point on I stopped taking notes because this wasn't gonna develop anything more and at T+6.00 I was even able to fall asleep. I like this material for what it is, but it is definitely a light one. The lack of stimulation was very nice though, feels good on the body. Haven't tried socializing but I believe opening up to others would be easier than sober. I might try a 20-30mg dose in the future, but who knows if I'll further pursue this material. I think I have this area of psychedelics covered and with it's price...
Right now at T+12 I still feel very mellow and chilled out. Maybe the headspace relieved some stress and anxiety that I feel during day to day life, in the same way that meditating works. I like it but nothing too amazing. Further trials will be done in the summer to capitalize on the relaxed feeling.
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