Lysergamides The Big & Dandy 1P-LSD Thread - Volume 2

[Thomas Davie]

I doubt your enzymes are creating a different compound to others. Sure be nice to have the actual activity discovered for sure.

Not that any of his enzymes might be creating different substance than others, but that they just might not be as active or efficient as others, *if* enzymatic degradation is an important factor in 1P-LSD metabolism.

Tom

 

[HZTB]

I finally tried LSD after only taking 1p and for me the effects were very similar, apart from the timeline being different (onset faster, come up steeper and whole duration longer) and LSD maybe being more potent µg for µg.

It was a pretty intense trip, and when I was peaking there was a lot of ego confusion and at one point my thoughts were racing so fast that I felt like I was losing control. I almost reached for a benzo but thankfully it passed. The rest of the trip was alright but I was pretty shaken. What are your tips for calming racing thoughts?

 

[FairySkruff]

I think LSD esp the rougher less regulated doses of dried blotter can have a real evil side to them. when we got cheap ones n ate loads of weak ones it was different to the strong 150-250mcg ?Hoffman 200x doubled dipped Amsterdam via Cornwall ones" defo had a real nasty edge to strong blot n I've taken so many green hands were same...

1p has a real sense of purity about it, like liquid cid from legit supplier like the s Africans who used to supply the psy scene. if u were involved ud know the two ppl I mean they were the ones with the sweet bottle\eyewash bottle dropper 100 drops n crazy super strong ten more if u washed it out

I love 1ps purity. it's not psycho somatic I'm sure degradation of some of the hefty blots a while back led to darker uncomfortable trips

I only came back on to see if ppl had experienced their blotters degrade?

as I said I boshed lots of multiple halves n had a real life changing positive experience I can only compare to good e

v different to cid , less comedown, less acid reflux stomach aches etc afterwards

I just wanna know if ppl have repeatedly taken it weekly over months found a drop off in visuals?

I just could get visuals last time pushed it to five n then ten n only got cev n mental thoughts , depression next day which never had before off 1p.

I mixed three suppliers trips too n they were fresh n stored v well

spoke to a mate involved in maps n I'm drugs specialist (retired due to liking h n losing our kid) and they said it was unlikely I'd damaged neurons\receptors n my three month break should work fine for the couple of times I wanna drop in sunny Spain.

has anyone 'broke' 1p for themselves? did u get visual back after a good break?

I really think this is the perfect post from drug, its e like happy chatty, I drink a red bull with it n makes me loopy lol, its great for gigs easy to smuggle, smell proof, no need to decide like coke off the toilets every twenty mins lol or crouching down with pipe or foil in a corner with w n b.

it totally changed my head n gave me a good shake I never craved gear after n quit in three days on a reducing dhc regime n fw downers to stop twitching n getting annoyed etc. ppl who post in other drugs etc know what I mean about it being rough.

I took all mine in the day, sunshine n summer fairs n two Spanish holidays. back in UK UV lights djing etc at night I got nothing really visual, I know if I took a microdot or liquid I'd be wibbly n tripping hard.

have I broke it? I was taking halves half hourly n only took like 1 1\2. month after Spain I came back from pub munched one n ended up annoyed as even five-10 didn't visualise.

I'm worried that trip broke it for me. sad about it its a sacrament n cleanest of all psycadelics sacraments for purging negativity n reconnecting with myself.

I got two batches of fresh n maybe 19 of the fifty block. I'm gonna mix em up in halves n sit on top deck of the villa in lloret n guzzle loads of all inclusive booze n start slow three halves n see.

I think last time I ate some n only buccaled three halves above my teeth n chewed one whole one up then held it against tounge.

I'd taken a PPI ,pantoprazole 40mg, n had had 60mg cod for IBS n flam 0.25 at some early hour that day. n like I said GT nothing I had been taking t at least weekly untill then n was smoking dihenimine n eating a few benzos. the week to stave off thoughts of breaking getting on Friday a year off skag smoked.

I literally have taken everything n gave it all up for respectfully doing 1p n planned ahead to keep one a month for next year plus post ban

now I'm devvod is it me? my diet was por I'm eating , sleeping et well now n taking expensive vitamins n doing exersize to boost endorphins.

I honestly can't wait to drop. but im saving it for Spain, see spectre n ghost in shell new movie with my Peruvian g\f n generally float around pool on big inflatable making clouds into dragons etc.

I'll be beyond gutted if it doesn't work again after three month break

anyone had it reduce or stop working off blotter u knew was good quality?

or is there anyone out there with theory that repeated use will damage ur ability to trip n are the vit supliment or endorphin rich exersize like I'm doing in the REAL world that'll boost\fix\overcome my lack off extreme sillyness n visuals.

last time was weird usually I taste a trip n within five mins I get a feel for how strong it is n usually decide then weather to drop an extra half.

I abused 2cb into the ground grams of the stuff n the nbomes. when I found 1p I was so cautious n carefull nrespectfull but I don't get why the trip before visuals were only two hours n then I was eyes like plates n awake for twelve hours, the last time I just kept eating em with hundred odd downers on standby but I got nothing except bit agitated hot awake n cev I might of been bringing on naturally.

I'm going on.... has anyone had the fx of 1p drop off with repeated use even with breaks? if it doesn't work in the sun in same spot as my last epic trip after a three month break I'm going to have to really look into its neuropharmacy, get a mate at work to toxbase one for me.

but yeah anyone not getting fx off blotters that are pasting others off same batch?

like I said I got old 2months old n new few days old from two diff suppliers if those three batches don't work....

I'll get some liquid acid n see if that works but I'm pretty disappointed. a few came from a certain reptile n I know theirs are always really good.

it's bothering me. I read certain bits are repeated after a session. suppose all I can do is be mellow , carefull n not bring myself down with negative trains of thought....

but yeah anyone had this experience, I know ppl who've had fake, under dosed blots but these are v fresh n waste each of my mates I've given one too when I've djed a set at the underground after party scene I do chillout n do gabba in back room. temptation to do some while djing vinyl is super great as u feel godlike pulling of a sick mix but I'm totally saving myself for another two weeks making it three months.

anything u guys do to boost it, I try to take all dose in first hour n half.

genuinely want advice I feel like I'm missing a little bit of my soul not being able to trip its good for me n keeps me crazy positive n away from h which I only use when I get PTSD, but 1p has stopped them attacks for over a year n I don't wanna buy one bag as I don't trust myself to keep it at one bag, stuffs like a half open bar of choc.... morish.

advice related to 1p sitch. I think I had been taking clonazolam a lot up untill the weeks before the two lots of failed trips but I'd had clonazolam n clonazEpam et al before n it was really messy n giggly n great.

like I said sunshine++ is only factor missing. I get s.a.d. a bit so could that be affecting it? LSD is like a synthetic seratoin at the receptor n 1ps a pro drug for a variant of that yeah? I dunno I'll get plenty of sun n swimming in sea first day n follow up my trip half\full blot by blot n see if ppl got me ideas I'll be using the tablet PC to listen to Tycho n Floyd n gabba etc so I'll be on n off the web.

all advice appreciated.

 

[Peacephrog1972]

Advice for what? There was a question there? ? ?

 

[stanleyK]

For me 1p, which tried another time today, is very similar to LSD. Just 3 x 100 is equal to 2 x street good lsd. So for me it makes a safer but more expensive source of LSD.

 

[rave23]

I have had the chance to sample 100mcg 1P-LSD blotters.
I have had many experiences with LSD before as well.

As far as i can tell, it's indistinguishable. I took 100mcg the same way one would consume acid, and if this was compared to an equivalent dosage of LSD, i am pretty sure the effects are similar.

After taking it that distinct acid rising feeling took hold of me, and i was absolutely 100% convinced that this was indeed LSD i obtained, and there's cops outside my door waiting to bust me. It was thoroughly alarming, as i obtained this through a vendor that claims it's perfectly legal to have as long as you're not putting it in your body. I was so sure i was done for. After that initial fear died down it gave way to the same inebriation one can obtain by consuming LSD. I obtained some more, because i can't believe this. I am in disbelief.

I don't know what to make of it, this is indistinguishable for me. My acid trips always had a great deal of variation to me, and they have never been quite the same every time, so there might be subtle differences, but i can't pick up on them at all.

1 mg of alprazolam at the 8 hour mark provided relief from that stimulation feeling and gave way to deep sleep and good rest in the morning.

 

[Seph]

So would you say that 100 ug/150ug of 1p would equate to about 100ug of LSD , it all kinda makes sense seeing as the paper that recently came out said that it had ~38% the potency of LSD in nice and rats (calculated from the head twitch number) . But subjectively I find a full tab of 1p to be pretty fucking strong but this maybe that I'm sensitive to the compound , plus I think the purity of the 1p for me anyway makes it superior to the classical lsd available to a majority of people now a days , even if it's still not just as strong visually it's all there mentally n that's what it's really about ?

 

[roi]

^It also metabolizes into LSD. The 38% might be its own activity?

 

[Thomas Davie]

So would you say that 100 ug/150ug of 1p would equate to about 100ug of LSD , it all kinda makes sense seeing as the paper that recently came out said that it had ~38% the potency of LSD in nice and rats (calculated from the head twitch number) . But subjectively I find a full tab of 1p to be pretty fucking strong but this maybe that I'm sensitive to the compound , plus I think the purity of the 1p for me anyway makes it superior to the classical lsd available to a majority of people now a days , even if it's still not just as strong visually it's all there mentally n that's what it's really about ?

I'm aware of thus paper, and actually have the PDF. To me it's not terribly convincing or impressive without gong into detail esterase levels in mice/rats .vs humans, activity comparison; in other words, trying to calibrate or compensate for species differences. However, my suspension of belief as to the accuracy of that paper is muted by the fact that I've never tried LSD, only LSZ, AL-LAD and 1P-LSD. Maybe once I try LSD I'd say that 38% is vastly overstated - who knows.

We do have to take into consideration whether;

1) 1P-LSD is hydrolysed in the stomach
2) Hydrolysis occurs in the blood volume via esterase activity
3) Differentail esterase activity
4) Differential enzyme levels
5) Whether transport of unhydrolyzed 1P-LSD to the brain occurs.
6) Efficacy if transport between individuals
7) Inherent unhydrolyzed activity
8) Brain esterase levels and/or activities.

HTR (head twitch response) is a very crude approximation of activity; in my opinion so crude as to be almost meaningless.

It's never going to pass ethics committee approval, but we need double blind comparison studies in humans to compare the two. Even then I suspect (as rave23 states) trip variation may make the two indistinguishable.

Tom

 

[Xorkoth]

HTR (head twitch response) is a very crude approximation of activity; in my opinion so crude as to be almost meaningless.

I agree. I always thought the methods for testing qualities of psychedelics, and even drugs in general, in animals are sketchy at best. Head twitches in rats do not really correlate to subjective effects in the human brain.

 

[perpetualdawn]

Yeah, good point bringing this up TD. Counting head twitches in rats only answers the question "How much of a headtwitchogen is this substance in rats?".

 

[Thomas Davie]

@Xorkoth - I've been going really slow with 1P-LSD because I've never tried LSD ever, and the only people I know who've tried LSD in the past don't describe what I've experienced. So it's taken me about 3 1/2 months to go from 25 ug to 150 ug. Subjectively, as you put it - I have no reference. Even my mushroom indulgences feel....different. On a scientific level, logic tells me that 1P-LSD should be similar to LSD; but nothing feels logical about psychedelics to me (if that makes any sense). So to me, a head twitch isn't something I can comprehend.

@perpetualdawn - you should copyright that phrase 'headtwitchogen'

I'm sure that when I try LSD I will enjoy it.

Tom

 

[serotonin2A]

I agree. I always thought the methods for testing qualities of psychedelics, and even drugs in general, in animals are sketchy at best. Head twitches in rats do not really correlate to subjective effects in the human brain.

It isn't supposed to be a direct readout of psychedelic effects on humans. it is meerly an assay for 5-HT2A activation. It is actually one of the better readouts because non-hallucinogenic 5-HT2A agonists (e.g., lisuride) do not produce head twitch. And there is actually a really good correlation between head twitch potency in mice and hallucinogenic potency in humans.

So I think you guys are misunderstanding the purpose of these experiments. The experiments were not conducted to show 1P is psychedelic, but rather to show that 1P produces LSD-like 5-HT2A activation in vivo and to compare the potencies of the two drugs. The goal isn't to predict the potency in humans, but knowing the relative potency vs LSD will yield insight into whether 1P is a prodrug (once receptor binding data is available).

Regarding the utility of animal models, please consider almost all we know about the pharmacology of psychedelics in humans was actually first elucidated in animals. The role of 5-HT2A was first confirmed in rats in 1984; it took 14 years to show the same mechanism was involved in humans. So these "sketchy" models, as you called them, have yielded important and impressive insights into the human psychopharmacology of hallucinogens.

 

[pofacedhoe]

Counting head twitches in rats only answers the question "How much of a headtwitchogen is this substance in rats?".

yes terribly inaccurate outcome measure. non species transferable and the interpretation of the head twitch in the rats reaction (its meaning as an experience for the rat) is dubious.

 

[SKL]

Not 1P-LSD specific, but related to animal models and wonderful:

[video=vimeo;33803995]https://vimeo.com/33803995[/video]

 

[Xorkoth]

It isn't supposed to be a direct readout of psychedelic effects on humans. it is meerly an assay for 5-HT2A activation. It is actually one of the better readouts because non-hallucinogenic 5-HT2A agonists (e.g., lisuride) do not produce head twitch. And there is actually a really good correlation between head twitch potency in mice and hallucinogenic potency in humans.

So I think you guys are misunderstanding the purpose of these experiments. The experiments were not conducted to show 1P is psychedelic, but rather to show that 1P produces LSD-like 5-HT2A activation in vivo and to compare the potencies of the two drugs. The goal isn't to predict the potency in humans, but knowing the relative potency vs LSD will yield insight into whether 1P is a prodrug (once receptor binding data is available).

Regarding the utility of animal models, please consider almost all we know about the pharmacology of psychedelics in humans was actually first elucidated in animals. The role of 5-HT2A was first confirmed in rats in 1984; it took 14 years to show the same mechanism was involved in humans. So these "sketchy" models, as you called them, have yielded important and impressive insights into the human psychopharmacology of hallucinogens.

That's interesting, I didn't know that, thanks.

 

[pofacedhoe]

we should be testing psychedelic comparisons on humans for an accurate outcome measure

 

[serotonin2A]

we should be testing psychedelic comparisons on humans for an accurate outcome measure

There is only a limited amount of time, money, and manpower available to run human studies with hallucinogens. if the only legitimateway to collect data was in human studies then the pace of new discoveries would slow considerably. Although rodents may not hallucinate in the same mamner as humans, the pharmacology and structure of the neural circuits where hallucinogens act is remarkably consistant across species. Therefore, it is possible to investigate mechanistic hypotheses in rodents first and then confirm the findings in humans.

 

[Thomas Davie]

There is only a limited amount of time, money, and manpower available to run human studies with hallucinogens. if the only legitimateway to collect data was in human studies then the pace of new discoveries would slow considerably. Although rodents may not hallucinate in the same mamner as humans, the pharmacology and structure of the neural circuits where hallucinogens act is remarkably consistant across species. Therefore, it is possible to investigate mechanistic hypotheses in rodents first and then confirm the findings in humans.

I understand what you're saying, and to the extent that there are the same 'types' of receptors in rat brains, I'll agree that animal testing is of interest and limited applicability to humans. As soon as you start to talk about protein sequence differences and mechanisms of control (between species) I'll claim that all you can do is make limited inferences as regards comparison to humans. If this is all one wants to do, I'm completely on board.

However, when a researcher claims (for example) that 1P-LSD is 38% as active as LSD using rat models, you (a general you, not you personally) have to add in the caveat 'in rats'.

Add in ethics restrictions to the limited time, money and manpower that hobbles research into human studies with hallucinogens. And at the end of the day there probably isn't much money in it.

Tom

 

[rave23]

There is only a limited amount of time, money, and manpower available to run human studies with hallucinogens.

There would be a never-ending supply of volunteers!

Just look at how many people willingly ingest research chemicals.