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The Big and Bangin' Pseudo-Advanced Drug Chemistry, Pharmacology and More Thread, V.2

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Why is it we assume 3-methoxymorhpinan does nothing to contribute to the recreational effects of DXM, aside from the fact it has local anesthetic effects (DXM>MEM>DXO)? My gut tells me that it's a real player in the experience (probably an undesirable one), but I couldn't really find any info to support that.
 
Is it possible to "reset" the brain receptors?
I don't need to lowering tolerance to any drug, i heavly abused Prozak and DOx and feel somewhat uncomfortable(my life literally goes down i feel much more anixious, a little dumber, and totaly lazier.
Also can Prozak or 5HT2-agonists impare my cognitive functions?
 
@ lombergh, no there is no easy way to "reset" your "receptors".
 
Is it possible to "reset" the brain receptors?
I don't need to lowering tolerance to any drug, i heavly abused Prozak and DOx and feel somewhat uncomfortable(my life literally goes down i feel much more anixious, a little dumber, and totaly lazier.
Also can Prozak or 5HT2-agonists impare my cognitive functions?

its not exactly "resetting your receptors," but you should look into St. John's Wort
 
I just found alpha-propyl-mescaline on some obscure RC website.

I wish there was more exploration of alpha-ethyl-phenethylamines or alpha-propyl-phenethylamines, it doesn't make sense to me that all of the worthwhile phenethylamines with an alpha group are methylated.

maybe even alpha-allyl-phenethylamine? I'm quite curious about the possibilities.
 
I wish there was more exploration of alpha-ethyl-phenethylamines or alpha-propyl-phenethylamines, it doesn't make sense to me that all of the worthwhile phenethylamines with an alpha group are methylated.

"APM" or α-propyl-mescaline has been made before along with some other extended alkyl chain friends (see this and this) though it is expected to be inactive.

PiHKAL said:
But since the first of these, AEM, was not active, there was no enthusiasm for tasting anything higher. This family was never published; why publish presumably inactive and thus uninteresting material?
 
^idk, man.

Presumably inactive.

I just find it hard to believe there aren't ANY active phenethylamines with an alpha-alkyl group that isn't a methyl.
 
^^ there's gotta be some gems in the higher alpha-alkyl analogues. active ones will probably be fewer and farther between, but there has to be some imo.
 
There are active phenethylamines with "long" alkyl chains, look into the prolintanes.

Unfortunately most of them are monoamine transport inhibitors versus serotonin 5ht2 agonists.
 
Cool Abstract for NMDA antagonist users

Clin Drug Investig. 2012 Aug 1;32(8):e1-e15. doi: 10.2165/11633850-000000000-00000.
A Study of Potential Pharmacokinetic and Pharmacodynamic Interactions between Dextromethorphan/Quinidine and Memantine in Healthy Volunteers.
Pope LE, Schoedel KA, Bartlett C, Sellers EM.
Source
Avanir Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Aliso Viejo, CA, USA.

Abstract
Background and Objective: Dextromethorphan/quinidine (DMQ) is the first agent indicated for the treatment of pseudobulbar affect. Dextromethorphan, the active ingredient, is a low-affinity, uncompetitive N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptor antagonist. This study evaluated the potential for a drug-drug interaction (DDI) of DMQ with memantine, which is also an NMDA receptor antagonist. Methods: This open-label, randomized, parallel-group study enrolled healthy adults who were randomized into one of two treatment groups. Group 1 subjects were administered memantine at a starting dose of 5 mg once daily, which was titrated over a 3-week period to a dose of 10 mg twice daily (every 12 hours) and continued for another 11 days to attain steady state; DMQ 30 mg (dextromethorphan 30 mg/quinidine 30 mg) every 12 hours was then added for a further 8 days. Group 2 subjects received DMQ 30 mg every 12 hours for 8 days to attain steady state; memantine was then added, titrated on the same schedule as in group 1, and continued at 10 mg every 12 hours for an additional 11 days. Pharmacokinetic blood sampling was performed to assess the primary endpoints of the 90% confidence intervals (CIs) for the geometric mean ratios of the areas under the plasma concentration-time curves (AUCs) for memantine, dextromethorphan, dextrorphan - the dextromethorphan metabolite - and quinidine during concomitant therapy versus monotherapy. Safety/tolerability and pharmacodynamic variables were also assessed. Results: A total of 52 subjects were randomized. In both group 1 (n = 23) and group 2 (n = 29), the 90% CIs for the ratios of the AUCs during concomitant therapy versus monotherapy were within the predefined range to indicate similarity (0.8-1.25) for memantine, dextromethorphan and dextrorphan, indicating no pharmacokinetic DDI. The 90% CI for the AUC ratio for quinidine was slightly above the predefined range; however, the mean AUC increased by only 25%. In both groups, incidence of adverse events was similar, and pharmacodynamic variables were either similar or slightly improved with DMQ added to memantine and memantine added to DMQ, compared to monotherapy with either agent. Conclusion: Minimal pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic interactions were observed between memantine and DMQ, suggesting they can be coadministered without dose adjustment.



I might start using a combination of the two instead of ordering bulk shipments of memantine from overseas. For all of you interested in practical drug-tolerance prevention, this is good news.
 
these are from the big & dandy 4-fa thread, thought it might get a better answer here


There have been concerns raised about the possible side effects of the floluorine in 4-fa (skeletal warping), but it has been speculated that the body would be unable to break the fluorine free and the compound would be excreted chemically unchanged. Would there be a method of urine analysis that could confirm this?

This is exactly what I would like to know also. Had it last weekend and it was one of the best experiences so far. Without all the negative side effects. I would like to add what the chemical reaction is when consumed with alcohol? Nobody seems to bother about this, but the fluorine is bad when its released in your body. Maybe it can not be released by only consuming 4-fa it self, but what if you add alcohol?

I'm thinking of doing this more often on parties, but I would like to make it to an age of 60 at least also ;). Nobody with a science/chemical degree that can research some pee? I think we've read enough "This is how I feel with 4fa" comments, its time for some real results.

in particular, the question about adding alcohol piqued my interest
 
Fluorines attached to carbons don't just magically fly off - they're bonded on there tighter than hydrogens. Yes, this means that metabolism is blocked at the 4-position*. No, this isn't a bad thing. No, this doesn't irreverably bind enzymes. No, this won't result in "free fluorine". No, this does not paralell the heavier haloamphetamines. No, this is not indicative of any more toxicity than amphetamine itself.

* amphetamine is hydroxylated at the 4-position by some liver enzymes as a minor metabolic route. 4-hydroxamphetamine is considered a nasty body load and is not thought to contribute to the positive f/x

Essentially the only thing that liberates fluorine from organic compounds is fire. Don't burn your 4-FA and you won't have to worry about HF exposure.

"Fluorine is bad when released in your body" -true, but in high concentrations. A dose of 4-FA doesn't have an appreciable amount of fluorine in it, compared to toothpaste.

Amphetamines do not "react" with alcohol, though consumption of large amounts of alcohol will change pharmacokinetics in a non-specific, unpredictable way by interefering with pH and enzymatic metabolism.



---

The major routes for fluorine toxicity are:
1. Metabolism of fluoroalkanes to toxic fluoroacetate. This only happens for even numbered n-fluorinated straight chain alkanes. (It was a possible concern of AM-2201, but that has an ODD number of carbons in the chain).
2. Ionic fluoride salt poisoning (This is what happens if you eat too much toothpaste)

Ring-fluorinated compounds like flurbiprofen, escitalopram et cetera (there are thousands) do not pose a threat for fluorine exposure
 
I just start playing with autodock vina and I am looking for theoretical structure of serotonin receptors and transporters.
You know where I could find this kind of PDB files? I found several scientific paper speaking about their model, but I was unable to find the PDB model... which is a pity!

(Also... Do you know a good forum about computational chemistry?)

Thanks in advance!
 
Can anyone estimate how long until MXE is fully metabolized / excreted? I want to know how long after MXE use I can safely take ayahuasca (and it seems that there is good reason to be wary of MXE + MAOIs).
 
Is there anyway of comparing phentermine's potency as a stimulant (while it's not a true amphetamine, it is still a sympatomimetic amine stimulant) to that of amphetamine/methamphetamine and is there a conversion for potency between amp and m-amp?
 
Is there anyway of comparing phentermine's potency as a stimulant (while it's not a true amphetamine, it is still a sympatomimetic amine stimulant) to that of amphetamine/methamphetamine and is there a conversion for potency between amp and m-amp?

Well you could look at the monoamine efflux ratios and EC50's.
 
Honestly, it simply does something different from the more desirable classical stimulants (with phentermine's increased selectivity for NE over dopamine), so drawing up some conversion factor to derive straightforward potency-equivalence simply isn't viable.

ebola
 
Yes, but we have to answer the question, "potency in doing what?" This will have a very different answer depending on a compound's particular selectivity for one monoamine over others. You could compare with d-amp's EC50s as a monoamine releaser (assuming similar pharmacokinetics...which is somewhat sound), but dopaminergic effects seem to matter a great deal.

ebola
 
What's the physiological cause of benzo/alcohol withdrawal?

Like how the cause of opiate withdrawal is mainly the rebound pain caused by the mu receptors not being constantly activated + lots of NE in your system causing the anxiety/sweating/diarrhea, stimulant WDs are caused by dopamine and (and serotonin for MDMA and 4-FA, anyway) depletion destroying your ability to feel pleasure (and derealization/depression caused by 5-HT depletion). How does a lack of GABA cause deadly siezures, DTs and the other symptoms of benzo/alcohol WD?
 
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