Harm Reduction Tapering Plan Mega thread - community project

[Tommyboy]

Switching to Valium this monday for tapering....

So after being under the care of a quack psychiatrist that had me on 2mgs of xanax daily from september 2005 to 2007 then 3mgs daily until october 2009 I switched to a real psychiatrist in november. We discussed tapering, and first switch to xanax xr 1.5mg, and now I am at 1mg daily. I dropped to dosage slowly because I am in my junior year of college and really can't afford to have sleepless nights etc. So I have been taking between .75 and 1mg for the passed month of the xanax xr. I break them in half when I can, thats why I said .75. So on monday I will be switching to valium. I am going to propose to my doctor to switch to 5mg 4x daily. This way I can regulate how many I take. I have heard that the initial switch can be a little rough, that is why I am switching to an equivalent dosage of valium. So my questions....
1. I will have 8 of the xanax xr .5mg pills left over, so should I do a partial switch over for in the beginning, and if so what is recommended.
2. Why is valium defined as a benzo derivative, whereas xanax is just defined as a benzo?
My doctor is in no hurry to make me drop dosage, but he also won't let it go on forever. It is more of a case of letting me complete school without having w.d's affect my performance. I also have been on 50mgs of Lamicatal this month and although it is not thought to be a therapeutic level, its working for me so Im not messing that dosage for now.
I am mostly concerned with the fact that I have gone 24 hrs without a benzo maybe two times since 2005. My dosage has not been high, but the amount of time has been.

 

[bignbrown]

I would start at 20mg per week, and lower it by 2.5mg per week.

week 1 - 20
week 2 - 17.5
week 3 - 15
week 4 - 12.5
week 5 - 10
week 6 - 7.5
week 7 - 5
week 8 - 2.5

And then jump off.

You can speed it up/slow it down as necessary. I would split up the "total daily dose" into 5mg intervals throughout the day.

cheers, but im thinking of just cold turkeying it, it was only a months long bingd i havent been on them for months or anything, dont think it'll be ddangerous.

 

[Pegasus]

So after being under the care of a quack psychiatrist that had me on 2mgs of xanax daily from september 2005 to 2007 then 3mgs daily until october 2009 I switched to a real psychiatrist in november. We discussed tapering, and first switch to xanax xr 1.5mg, and now I am at 1mg daily. I dropped to dosage slowly because I am in my junior year of college and really can't afford to have sleepless nights etc. So I have been taking between .75 and 1mg for the passed month of the xanax xr. I break them in half when I can, thats why I said .75. So on monday I will be switching to valium. I am going to propose to my doctor to switch to 5mg 4x daily. This way I can regulate how many I take. I have heard that the initial switch can be a little rough, that is why I am switching to an equivalent dosage of valium. So my questions....
1. I will have 8 of the xanax xr .5mg pills left over, so should I do a partial switch over for in the beginning, and if so what is recommended.
2. Why is valium defined as a benzo derivative, whereas xanax is just defined as a benzo?
My doctor is in no hurry to make me drop dosage, but he also won't let it go on forever. It is more of a case of letting me complete school without having w.d's affect my performance. I also have been on 50mgs of Lamicatal this month and although it is not thought to be a therapeutic level, its working for me so Im not messing that dosage for now.
I am mostly concerned with the fact that I have gone 24 hrs without a benzo maybe two times since 2005. My dosage has not been high, but the amount of time has been.

1) Sounds like a good idea... Just use little bits in addition to the dose you are switching to inorder to alleviate the uncomfort that would arise from stopping the drug abruptly.
2) They are both benzodiazepine derivatives...

 

[Tommyboy]

Well things didn't go as planned at the doctor. Since I was on .5mgs of xanax xr twice daily I proposed to switch to 5mgs of valium 3 or 4x daily so that I would be switching to an equivalent dose. The doctor disagreed with the equivalency and prescribed me 5mgs of valium 2x daily. He first wanted me to switch to klonpin for the taper but I said I would prefer valium for the taoer.
I do however have the 8 .5mg xanax xr to help out with the initial transition and he said that if it was too difficult that I could call him to figure something out.
I guess that switching to 1mg of xanax to 20mg of valium seemed to high for him, and he said the equivalency charts are not directly interpreted.
Hopefully I can handle just 10mgs daily of valium. I'll make an update in a week or so to give others an idea of the transition.
Also, comments on how to use my remaining xanax xr pills are welcome.

 

[i are spectre]

i have a question. ive posted in this thread numerous times now, going from 20 to 40mg of valium up and down. the main reason i think is because of my drinking. i am going to try and stop, tonight, right now. waking up hung over does not help at ALL when benzo tapering.

the question is, how can i find out where i am at with my valium, i mean that will make me feel comfortable. i could be at 20mg find and maybe im just super hungover still you know?

i took 40mg this morning and still felt like shit but i was drinking tequila right out of the bottle. i even took midazolam, too. i think i will take it tonight too to sleep. i have like 4 left so im not worried about being addicted to that, i just want to sleep and find my comfortable dosage. so i guess the question is, since valium has such a long half life, how can i find out where i am at to be comfortable?

dropping 2.5 mg per week is what i will do now cap'n. i just dont want to pop 30mg tomorrow when i really dont need that much, but i wouldnt even know until a few days because of the long ass half life.

either way i have a 7 day pill box thing someone bought me, itll help me taper. i hope i have enough valium to get from 30 to 0 by dropping 2.5mg per week. also, taking 5mg doses throughout the day sounds like a great idea. ive been taking it all in the morning, and its hard to sleep. im sure after a week of no booze i should be pretty stable.

i think ive been on valium for like 2 or 3 months, do you think i could drop 5 mg per week instead of 2.5? who knows, i guess ill let you guys know maybe, heh.

thanks for everyone who contributes their info and cares, and knows what its like to be addicted. i cant wait until the day i dont take benzos anymore and feel fine.

 

[Jabberwocky]

^hey man, would you mind putting in some paragraphs? i find it too hard reading a big wall of text, tis all. you'll get more responses that way too

 

[Tommyboy]

UPDATE.....

My transition from 1mg of xanax to 10mg of valium went fine. The equivalency chart said 20mgs is the same as 1mg xanax, but I am fine with half that amount of valium.... And this is after over 3 years of daily use.

 

[i are spectre]

ok, quick question for anyone, been on valium three months, seems like im at 30mg a day to be comfortable, i took 25mg today and dont feel well. im taking 5 to 10mg at a time throughout the day as cap'n suggested, rather than taking it all at once in the morning.

the question is that if i use 25mg for a week, then go to 20mg, will that be very uncomfortable? as in, is 5mg per week drop from a 3 month habit going to be real rough? i have a job that i MUST be alert, aware, and conversate with people. the problem is i dont have enough to go by 2.5mg a week, i have to drop 5mg per week, in order to get to 0.

i will let people know what happens as thats what im going to do. benzos are AWFUL. the end.

also, for sleep, should i take benedryl, or use midazolam? will that midazolam just cause problems in the morning? i have like 4 or 5 15mg tabs left.

 

[passtheflask]

I've been a daily xanax user for about 2-3 years now (non-daily for 5-7 years maybe?) minus a two month period that ended with a nervous breakdown and a couple ~10 day periods where I thought I could quit cold turkey then freak out and go back to taking them.

I'm prescribed 1mg twice daily, but as of the past two months I've been taking an extra one almost every day, and sometimes 4 (if I have some adderall or something). So between 1 and 4mg. I really don't think I've taken more than 4mg in a day, maybe once or twice.

I'd like to switch to a valium taper plan.

Here's the thing. My doctor is not a doctor, but a family practitioner. She is clueless. She says if I have to increase dosage or come back early she will take me off of them, apparently to let me deal with the withdrawals. Or maybe she's unaware of the withdrawals. I don't think I'm going to be able to talk her into switching me to valium. Perhaps I should find a new doctor but I'm afraid they'll just think I'm drug-seeking.

Anyway, guess I'm just looking for advice and maybe a plan to finally kick this addiction.

Edit: I don't want this to last longer than 4-6 weeks. I don't want to lose motivation or anything.

 

[Tommyboy]

passtheflask

I went to a new psychiatrist in November, and he asked me what my goal was. I told him I wanted to taper off of benzos, and possibly start a mood stabilizer. I told him how much xanax my last doc was giving me, and told him that I wanted to lower that by 1mg to start off, and then possibly switch to valium. So he said since I was asking to lower my dose, I didn't seem to be seeking, which I wasn't. I went from 3mg xanax to 1.5mgs xanax xr to 1mg xanax xr to 10mg valium in monthly incriments... That is where I currently stand.

Also, I would plan a week off from work or something for when you get off the benzos. 4-6weeks may be a little fast. I am in college, so I am tapering slow since sleep/alertness is essential.
Your family doc should atleast give you a script, and refer you to a psychiatrist if she is not comfotable tapering you off.

 

[misskryss]

would anyone suggest taking xanax to help with getting off dope ? ...or is it better to do without anything?

 

[Tommyboy]

would anyone suggest taking xanax to help with getting off dope ? ...or is it better to do without anything?

People do suggest it alot here. I had a tolerance and was taking my daily dose of xanax as scripted when I was coming off of subs, so the xanax didn't help me that much.

I usually washed down my xanax with theraflu, that helped. It was the theraflu PM i believe.

 

[Pegasus]

would anyone suggest taking xanax to help with getting off dope ? ...or is it better to do without anything?

It certainly helps. Nothing will help like having a bit of opiates to help taper with, though. If you like in an area where kratom is legal, I'd certainly look into it as a good transition material off of opiates (aided by benzos if you like )

 

[passtheflask]

passtheflask

I went to a new psychiatrist in November, and he asked me what my goal was. I told him I wanted to taper off of benzos, and possibly start a mood stabilizer. I told him how much xanax my last doc was giving me, and told him that I wanted to lower that by 1mg to start off, and then possibly switch to valium. So he said since I was asking to lower my dose, I didn't seem to be seeking, which I wasn't. I went from 3mg xanax to 1.5mgs xanax xr to 1mg xanax xr to 10mg valium in monthly incriments... That is where I currently stand.

Also, I would plan a week off from work or something for when you get off the benzos. 4-6weeks may be a little fast. I am in college, so I am tapering slow since sleep/alertness is essential.
Your family doc should atleast give you a script, and refer you to a psychiatrist if she is not comfotable tapering you off.

Thanks.

I'm a programmer, so alertness is essential for me as well. Perhaps I can get my new script of xanax filled and take it with me to a new doctor and tell him I will throw them in the trash in front of him if he helps me taper with valium. I don't know.

 

[Tommyboy]

Thanks.

I'm a programmer, so alertness is essential for me as well. Perhaps I can get my new script of xanax filled and take it with me to a new doctor and tell him I will throw them in the trash in front of him if he helps me taper with valium. I don't know.

Your welcome, and good luck with that. Let me know if you need any advice on this issue in the future since we are pretty much in the same boat, mine just sailed a couple months earlier....

Oh, and its Friday so Pass The Flask and let the weekend begin!!!

 

[i are spectre]

maybe there should be seperate tapering threads for individual classes of drugs?

anyway, i had a thought i posted a while back but it was in a wall of text so im sure a lot missed it.

im thinking of a different way to taper. im currently trying to taper off diazepam and it sucks, but here is my thought:

let's say joe blow (me) takes 20mg of diazepam a day and i want to get off (which i do).

well, if i were to take 20mg of diazepam a day, that could/would also be 5mg of diazepam every 6 hours, within a 24 hour peroid. what i may try and do is set a timer, and take 5mg of diazepam every 6 hours, then every 6.5 hours, then every 7 hours, and so on. that seems like it would be real easy!

id have to do the math to make sure its not too much of a drop, as i might have to dose every 6 hours, then 6.125 hours, then 6.25 hours, then 6.375 hours, and so on.

that seems like it would work very well, because eventually i would be taking it every 24 hours, then upwards to 36 hours, 72 hours, and so on.

has anyone else tried this? does anyone think this is a good or bad idea? i think im going to give it a shot.

today i have not taken any diazepam at all today (unless you count 2:30 in the am). trying to get my tolerance down and im not working today. im going to try and not take it for as long as possible by using opioids and OTC meds that help with benzo wd. we'll see how long that lasts, it might be a bad idea because my anxiety might get so bad ill drop 10mg or even 20mg at once, which is what i dont want to happen.

in the mean time im just trying to get my tolerance down by not taking it at all today. ive been on a schedule, but then i go off, then i go back on, then i get off. its hard to gauge where i am at still (mg's of diazepam) to be comfortable because i have not had a set in stone schedule yet, but i will try the timer method. probably set a timer on my phone so it vibrates and i know its time to take 5mg.

i just hope i dont freak out later and pop a ton of valium, so far im ok, just took some more bupe to take some of the edge off. still have sweaty hands and stuff but i think ill be ok. id rather be in bupe or any other opioid wd than benzo wd, thats for DAMN sure.

also, cap'n, you suggested earlier i dissolve the diazepam in propylene glycol. i read that toxicity starts at plasma concentrations of 4g/L, so that's a shit ton. how much propylene glycol would you suggest to use?

take care all, and god bless

 

[Pegasus]

^That's essentially the same thing as a normal taper, but don't you think the time spent asleep might present a problem?

You are basically just describing a really complicated taper... With a normal taper, you also will wind up at 1 dose every 24 hours, then 36, then 48, etc... All the time leading up to this point, you are just taking the extra time between doses from your scenario and combining it to cut out one small percentage of your daily dose.

 

[tonybananas]

painless methadone taper?

I was just wondering if there is such thing as a painless methadone taper?
the dr says droping 5mg's every week will be virtually painless..
I have been on 60mgs for 3 months and am planning on getting off this shit and am wondering how much pain im in for?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Take a week or two to drop down 1mg at a time if you need to. 2mg or 5mg intervals would be the "biggest" jumps I would make with a drug of this potency/WD pain.

Good luck on the painless taper quest!

I sort of am experimenting myself to find the perfect way to taper off of buprenorphine. I've gotten to a point where using more or less isn't effecting me in a positive or negative way, so I'm trying to make conservative cuts to my dosing regimen whenever I can.

Beyond acute (fill in opiate of choice) W/D, and PAWS due to (fill in opiate of choice) abuse, Suboxone should be much easier to "taper painlessly" off of. This means buprenorphine in itself may have W/D symptoms and it certainly is a W/D, it's just not all that intense compared to full agonists (for average people - YMMV).

I'm not experienced with methadone, but I am sure someone on BL has had, at the least, a near painless W/D. I've heard of some BL'ers stretching the final taper down to a long amount of time, to reduce total discomfort, and hopefully removing the bipolar cycle of full agonist opiate high (polar opposite of WD) and extreme, agonizing, terrifying, physically and psychologically uncomfortable WD (polar opposite of peaking on heroin/you opiate of choice).

This is always the feeling I had about tapering with Suboxone - it makes the WD bearable so as to prevent your mind associating negativity with the final step off heroin/your opiate of choice. This way, later down the road of sobriety, there won't be any bad feelings of "aw but I felt --> THIS BAD <-- coming down, and I had nothing to make it better, so I'm going to jump at anything I can just to heal this wounded ego!" in a sense. I sort of exaggerate things a bit on amphetamine.

I always felt like all my relapses can be summed up that way - I'll get completely, 100% over the physical WD symptoms, get back to normal, have my life back, and then I would watch myself throw it all away over and over again. It's as if the agony of the WD symptoms make you adversed to using heroin, but only to a certain degree that using it would still have a positive association in your mind and body (and it's a reaffirmed association every time you use).

I'm just so thankful I've been clean from heroin for 17 months + now.

 

[i are spectre]

hey cap'n, i was just wondering if the taper schedule you gave to the person before for valium was from personal experience. i tried skipping a day with valium, i took 0mg yesterday, but lots of bupe instead, and took 40mg today, which is what i was afraid of, a rebound type effect. im going to drop 2.5mg per week, this is my schedule:

25mg/day x 5 = 125
22.5mg/day x 7 = 157.5
20mg/day x 7 = 140
17.5mg/day x 7 = 122.5
15mg/day x 7 = 105
12.5mg/day x 7 = 87.5
10mg/day x 7 = 70
7.5mg/day x 7 = 52.5
5mg/day x 7 = 35
2.5mg/day x 7 = 17.5

and drop off. i have no choice as this is all the valium i have access to. from what ive heard the last 2.5 drop off is rough but, like i said, i have no choice. skipping days didnt work, it just messed me up. i will try and split in 5mg intervals but im not sure i can do that, depends on how i feel when i wake up. it's still hard to tell where my comfortable dose is, but it's going to HAVE to be 25mg starting tomorrow. im just worried about that last drop off, but fuck it, there is no other option.

also, i figure the seizure threshold will be reduced greatly because of the taper. do you think it would be safe at all to take tramadol? it does wonders for me, i know it doesnt for some. my script says do not exceed 400mg, but does anyone think 50-100mg a day would be ok during a slow taper like this? i have no family history of any type of seizures or epilepsy, im quite the psychonaut, or was, but who knows. what is a seizure from tramadol like, does anyone have personal experience?

i pray to god i can get off this, and when i do, i will be able to help others who are trying to get off benzos. thank god i brought some to work today, i would have been in bad shape.