Harm Reduction Tapering Plan Mega thread - community project

[Pegasus]

Hey everyone...Im new and was told to post here.
Long story short, I got a bad oxy addiction and was doing 3-4 80s a day for about half a year straight, rarely missing a day. As deserpate as I was for relief, my family Dr told me methadone was the best solution. I started at 20mg and they upped me by 5 every visit and I was up to 80 in no time. I was sleeping all day, withdrawls were gone..But I mean, I was laying in bed all doing nothing so it wasnt really helping the situation.(Maybe $$$$ Wise). My Sex drive was completely gone and my DR tested my testerone level...It came back as 1.6(normal for my age, is suppose to be in the 20s...and I was fucking 1.6!!!!!)Im 21 btw. So anyways, I decided it was best to wein off. I was going down 5mg every dr visit.(So 5mg every wednesday, and 5 every saturday, so I guess technically 10mg a week) I know that seems very fast, and It was, but I wanted off as the effects on my body were awful and my depression was getting worse. Anyways, Im at 35mg today, and my DOG is oxies but I couldnt get any yesterday So I bought 3 8mg Diauldid(sp??). I sniffed one of them, and swallowed one, and I got a slight buzz. I will be continuously going down 5 every visit, and I want to know at what MG methadone doesnt "block" at all. Like If I was on say, 15mg on methadone yesterday when I did those, Would I obviously had gotten more high? Im new to Diaulidid(sp?). I plan on buying a bunch of 80s tomorrow and just not take my methadone dose in the morning(people always spit it out once they are outside, or spit into a cup etc) Should I wait until Im basically off methadone to be doing them? I noticed that when I did the 8's last night my withdrawls(from comming down so fast off methadone) went almost all away.
I want someones AIM or MSN to talk to in detail about some stuff. I just wana basically know the mg of oxy id need to get high with the dose im on.(Ill be on 30 this wendesday, then 25 saturday, etc) I know Im going down really fast but I just want fucking off. Its hell. I know its gonna be hell once im completely off or at 5 and 10 too. But I can do it(Btw, I dont plan on "abusing" everyday) I just want to be safe about it(Maybe once im at 0 of methadone 80mg of oxy willl be too much? etc).....Sorry..just really confused about all this...Please someone message me who is in my situation. I dont wana become a junkie again, But I just want off methadone and want to know the "best" or "safest" way to get high. This is probably full of spelling errors and mistakes But I just wanted to get my point acrosss. P.s Methadone withdrawls are fucking AWFFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(Thank god for Xanies)

The exact dose that the blockade starts at is unknown, but as you experienced first-hand, it is not a hard line, but rather a range.

 

[OxyKid69]

So once im down to 0, how long does it take to get out of the body(methadone)
Ive heard stories of sometimes it lasts months after without even taking it.
Ive also heard that some people still cant get high at ALL even after tappering off methadone and without it for a couple weeks. What would the explaination for that be? I dont understand why he/she wouldnt be able to get high without methadone in their system for a month. Is the half life that long and does it fuck your body up that much? Sounds to me like methadone might be doing more damage to our receptors than we think. Also, would taking Cimetidine an hour before taking your DOC(in this case mine, being an between 40 and 80mg of OxyContin) make it last longer? Or would it counter-act wth the methadone and make the methadone last longer too? Which would make it pointless? Sorry...I just heard about Cimetidine today. It supposedly slows down your metablism and your ability to break down the drug? So wouldnt it make Oxy or your DOC work better? Orrrrrrrr is it what I said above about it having the same effect on methadone?

 

[Pegasus]

^First off, welcome to BL man, and I'm not trying to be an ass, but please break your text into paragraphs... or at least put a line every so often when you start talking about something new. It makes it much easier to read and respond to.

Methadone does have a heck of a long half-life, and after tapering down to 0mg, there will still be some left, although the amount left will be totally dependent on the rate of taper. These people you describe probably did relatively quick tapers that still left enough methadone to be saturated in their systems to block the majority of the effects from the other drugs.

Something you need to remember is that not only is methadone incredibly long lasting, but it is incredibly powerful. The doses of the drugs you are describing (40-80mg oxycodone) are very small in comparison to even small amounts of methadone. So the reason these friends of yours aren't getting high from the other opiates is twofold: 1), their system is likely saturated in methadone to some degree, which is blocking some of the effects of the other opiates, and 2), Methadone is so much stronger than the other drugs they are trying to take, their tolerance has grown to deal with methadone and the doses of the other drugs that they are used to are no longer sufficient to give them the same effects that they did pre-methadone.

In this scenario, the answer isn't to just take huge doses to go past the methadone that is lingering in the system (if this is indeed the case), because respiratory depression will sneak up much easier and can occur even when relatively little positive effects are being felt. What should be done is to taper slowly in the first place, so that when the drop is made to 0mg, there isn't much more than the accumulation of the 2-5mg or so that was taken on each of the previous days in the time leading up to the drop to 0mg. When the body is tapered slowly like this, the saturation level of the methadone has been given time to properly and hopefully smoothly transition from a high level to a barely existent one.

The other drugs can be used after the saturation level has gone down sufficiently regardless if the taper is done properly (as I described above), or if it is done more rapidly, leaving more time for the saturation to level out (and also leaving more discomfort in the process). At this point, the other drugs can be used again, but caution should be exercised because there is really no telling where tolerance to these other drugs will stand at this point. Starting low and increasing to a suitable amount is really the only way to go about this. Remember though, this is only safe to so once at least most of the methadone is out of the system, so that dosing is not dangerously trying to jump over the blockade of lingering methadone. In summary, dosing more because of tolerance issues is likely and is safe when it is done in a gradually increasing manner: finding the right dose with a bit of experimentation. Dosing to jump over the methadone you have blockading your receptors is not safe though, as your breathing can get dangerously suppressed even with relatively little positive effects felt.

Good luck, and remember that tapering off methadone slowly is going to be the most crucial thing for you to do!

 

[i are spectre]

By adding in 2mg alprazolam (roughly equal to 40mg diazepam) to your drop of 5mg diazepam/ day, do you see how this isn't really equating to you dropping your dose at all? ...Really, it seems to me that it is an overall increase and will prolong the situation...

If you're feeling the effects from dropping back 5mg diazepam that strongly that you can't handle it, then doing 2.5mg at a time is really the most logical option... Adding a large dose of another benzo isn't going to help you get off any quicker.

I only want to take the xanax the first two days after I drop off 5mg of diazepam, then continue the diazepam at 20mg a day for 7 to 10 days with no xanax.

Then drop to 15mg of diazepam, and again take xanax for those first two days, and only continue with 15mg of diazepam for 7 to 10 days with no xanax.

Then drop to 10mg of diazepam, take xanax for the first two days, and continue the 10mg of diazepam for 7 to 10 days, again with no xanax.

I understand what you mean though, but I wont take xanax throughout the week with the valium, just the first two days I drop off another 5mg of diazepam. It seems logical to me this way. Obviously if I took xanax throughout the week with the valium it would be pointless as I would just be going backwards like you said.

Xanax only for the first two days I drop off another 5mg valium.

We shall see what happens, as tomorrow I will wake up and continue with only 20mg of diazepam (instead of 25mg which I have been at for a week) and no xanax at all.

When I get to 10mg of diazepam per week, if this works, I can just discontinue the xanax all together, and I will have more diazepam to get through the smaller doses at the end of the taper.

I figure with alprazolams short half life, taking it only the first two days of the valium dosage drop, I should be ok as long as I continue dropping 5mg of valium every 7 to 10 days.

If this doesnt work, then I will continue with dropping 2.5mg doses instead.

 

[Pegasus]

^Yeah, I figured that is what you meant, but maybe try less Xanax if that's what you're going to try? Remember, 2mg alprazolam for each of the first two days is 4mg, which equates to about 80mg diazepam.... much more than you cut out by taking out 5mg diazepam/ day. Just a thought to keep in mind, if you're trying to get off as quickly as you say, this will certainly prolong the taper quite a bit!

 

[i are spectre]

yes, i will definitely do less xanax for the next drop. i felt a little "too" comfortable the last two days. last night i had trouble sleeping though, a normal sign of benzo tapering. unfortunately i had no diphenhydramine where i was at.

of course taking xanax daily would just be pointless if im trying to get off valium. hands are sweaty, eyes bugging out =\ back to reality (withdrawal) again. at least im at 20mg now. god i can not wait to be off this crap.

thanks for your input bollweevil, its hard to remember how powerful xanax is compared to valium, by mass.

 

[Pegasus]

^Yeah, it certainly is.

I think that keeping the positive mindset that you're actually tolerating the withdrawal reasonably well is the most important part of avoiding slipping up on the taper. If the taper is going relatively painlessly, which it will be if you're going at the proper rate, then take solace in the fact that you're doing so well and you should be fine during the day, especially since tapering at this rate doesn't really make you withdraw, it just makes your body adjust to the dose and you still will feel the majority of the effects rather than the ever-so-slight lack of effects that you will experience. At night time, when your mind is most likely to dwell on the issue, I certainly recommend keeping diphenhydramine on hand! It works wonders!

Keep us updated and we'll be here for every step! Once you get to a lower dose, we can help you get through that portion as you'll most likely have to change up the plan a bit in order to continue to not feel the majority of the withdrawal effects. Remember, if you're feeling that the decrease is too much at any point, just go to the last dose you were comfortable at and wait until you're totally ready to do the drop. So long as you keep doing this before dropping further, you should really not have too difficult of a time getting out of this situation!

Again, good luck, and keep us updated!

 

[Noboru Wataya]

Taper Schedule -- Oxycodone

Hey OD

I'm on day three of my taper schedule. For some background, I've been taking +/- 30mg of oxycodone or hydrocodone (with some oxymorphone mixed in too) for about 37 days in a row now. I'm on a bender for sure. So...it's time to start cleaning up. I'm feeling weary and know it's time for me to stop.

Ok so on the last day of not tapering I dosed 45mg oxy over the whole day. THe following day (day 1 of taper), I consumed 30mg in 4 x 7.5mg doses over the whole of that day to keep my nausea/depression to a minimum. Yesterday (day two tapering) I followed up with 22.5mg in 3 x 7.5mg doses through the day.

Now it's today (day three). I slept like dogshit last night. I'm tired, cranky as fuck, etc. etc. I'm also shitting nonstop but that's b/c i haven't been able to in about 4 days. So far I've only taken 5mg and that's been enough to hold off the depression.

I read the first page of this thread about how full opioid agonists are terrible for tapering. Well, it's all I have so it's going to have to work. I have about 50mg of oxycodone @ this point to continue tapering with. Of course I have access to more. Should I stretch this taper out? I was planning on dosing 3 more times today with 5mg each time for a total of 20mg (7.5mg down from yesterday).

I've got some xanax too but haven't used it yet. I was hoping to hold on to it until I was totally cleaned out for sleep. I've also got some good chronic. Of course I'm also going to have to mix in loperamide. I think I might have something that will work...

Basically I'm just looking for a few opinions. What do you think about my taper schedule?

 

[Pegasus]

^They aren't really terrible for tapering. Just use as little as possible to keep you not shitting and sick but not high. You should be able to tell the difference. You won't feel great, but you should never really feel too serious of symptoms during any stage of a withdrawal if it is done properly and at the right pace. So... go forth and set that pace... Let us know how it goes!

 

[Noboru Wataya]

Update -- Maybe not as easy as i thought..

I've been cutting down, or trying to, on my opiate usage over the past week (as posted above). I fucked up twice and did about 80mg two days in a row. But now I'm back down. Since then I went back to thirty-mg/day. yesterday i was down to just 10mg of hydrocodone. i did have to buy some more pills to get thru it but i feel like i'm thinking more clearly, i'm less tired, and my appetite is back.

i'm going to give this taper five more days going down to 5mg x 2 times a day to cure depression. then just one 5mg after lunch. i'm already sleeping better and hopefully my ambien will help with PAWS sleeping.

it's really hard not to screw up a taper plan.

oh yea i almost forgot, what are the advantages/disadvantages of potentiating my increasingly smaller doses with something like diphenhydramine or DXM while tapering?

 

[Pegasus]

^It is impossible not to fuck it up. Just do it gradually, and keep your dose going down instead of up. If you give into temptation, take the smallest amount that will satisfy you.

It is a strange thing, and opiate taper, and it certainly isn't as exact of a science as it is sometimes make out. Just cut out what you can, when you can, and the progress will show!

Good luck! Keep us updated!

 

[Noboru Wataya]

oh yea i almost forgot, what are the advantages/disadvantages of potentiating my increasingly smaller doses with something like diphenhydramine or DXM while tapering?

i used the search engine and found good info on how to potentiate but not how it affects tapering...any ideas?

 

[Pegasus]

^They help to cover up minimal symptoms. They work really well when used at certain times of the day, IMO...

Obviously, you're not going to be able to dose diphenhydramine or DXM all day to dissociate yourself from the pain you are feeling, but if you use reasonable doses, probably around bedtime, these certainly can help with any type of withdrawal. One is a dissociative and one just makes you sleep... Both are really beneficial qualities douring most w/ds/...

 

[enacer]

Weening off suboxone

I abused oxy for about two years, at the end was up to 150mg-200mg a day for a couple months. I went on suboxone and was on 12mg ED (8mg am and 4mg PM) I slowly weened down to 1mg (like a friggin crumb) and have been clean for about 3 months maybe. I cannot for the life of me get off this damned 1mg. Everytime I try and go 24-36 hours I feel the withdrawl (cold sweaty lethargic) Anyone have any suggestions or do I have to ride it out on 1mg for a while? (yes these are questions i should ask my doc but I figured here is a good place to start)

 

[ech0s85]

go down to .5mgs. 1mg is still kinda a lot to kick.

 

[enacer]

It just sucks becuase they are 8mg tabs its hard to dose 1mg its like crumbs lol

 

[Jabberwocky]

merged into tapering thread.

a little trick you can use when you're only using minuscule amounts of powder is to dilute it into a small, easily measurable amount of water, using it sublingually.

you could also ask your doctor for the 2mg tabs

 

[sublime143]

Stoppin Opiates

Hey I have been a long time lurker here and love this website. I have been using between 40-60mg OC daily for the past four weeks.

I plan on stopping this week and was wondering if anyone could really give me insight on the best way to face w/d.

I know I am not using nearly as much as some people here but was wondering if it would be best to taper down or just go CT. If anyone could give me some insight on how bad it will be or even hopefully how bad it won't be compared to others experience it would be greatly appreciated.

Also if anyone has any ideas on how long it will take me to get past the worst parts of it and start feeling better I would be very thankful.

Thanks

 

[Jabberwocky]

hey welcome to bluelight

now that you're a member, when signed in you're able to use the search engine - which is the first thing to do. also the OD Directory (link in my signature) is a good place to start for popular threads of interest and mega threads. also check out the rules and posting standards which are in my signature as well.

i'll direct you to the community tapering plan to post in

 

[Magic_Hobo]

Since you have been using for such a short time and your doses are already pretty low, I think a taper would just be shooting yourself in the foot because you will be drawing this out for longer.

Just go cold turkey, it will be unpleasant but its nothing compared to what it will be if you keep using.