Taking testosterone for reasons other than getting bigger or stronger

[negrogesic]

So I am in my mid 30's and have had this long-standing desire to inject maybe 200mg(?) or so of some testosterone ester in my muscle once a week.

The question is, what do I hope to gain? I have naturally high testosterone and now even in my mid 30s i test in the high 800's low 900's. When i was younger I would regular test above the reference range and get an "H" next to the number (ie, "high" or abnormal). Granted I'm less aware my free testosterone looks like. And i'm not bald so it looks like my 5-alpha-reductase doesn't convert to it to the more anabolic DHT.

Still I put on muscle quickly, have very unusual strength for my weight and people have accused me of being on steroids because of my delts. * note the gyno isnt from steroids but from high dose methadone from years before that won't go away



Even that was on heavy amounts of opioids, and i have no interest in getting bigger than that. Wouldnt mind maybe being that size and leaner, but not trying to get bigger. It is too much work and the heavy weights really fucks with my joints. I partially tore the tendon connecting my elbow to my tricep when i was benching and am afraid of making it worse by benching much more than two plates these days anyhow (i used to be able to do two plates for 16 reps on the flat bench and well over 20 on the decline, i used to be a bench press addict).

Point is im not interested in getting bigger -- although without question I would lift more if i were injecting testosterone, i would take advantage of it, just smarter not heavier, I'm done with lifting heavy, in fact i see no benefit of getting anywhere beyond my 5 RM. Would be nice to get a good lean rip going though, that seems bad ass. But really my main interest isnt that (i could get a lean ripped physique if i paid attention to my diet), my main interest in adding testosterone is more for cognitive and motivation improvements.

Anyone have information on the gains and benefits (and downsides) in that regard? Ie what one gains in terms of cognition, drive, motivation, mood etc and what one gives up (like anxiety, physical side-effects etc). Im talking strictly about testosterone, intramuscular at maybe 125 to 250mg a week. My concern is that it will just permanently shut me down/induce exogenous testosterone dependency when i technically have a good thing going with my high testosterone (and the benefit of strength yet lack of hair loss). On the flip side, i wonder what i missing from not having true supraphysiological testosterone levels?

 

[Hexagon Sun]

Just enjoy your high natural T. You could maybe start injecting in 10 years, at around 45.

Now it doesnt make any sense. You will lost also the possibility of have childs as well

 

[Ismene2]

You look like a big strapping lad without the trt at the moment negrogesic!

I think that having natural test is the way to go especially at your age. I only started test when I got to 50 and I looked like Stan Laurel with a belly. I try and keep my test dose even lower - around 70-100mg a week as I read the human body only makes 3-7mg of test a day naturally. The more you take the more side-effects can appear. It's cured my life-long depression and given me a sunnier, more confident outlook but I need to get my bloods checked soon. Who knows - my blood might be so thick with red blood cells that it's squeaking as it goes through my arteries.

And it's a financial outlay too - even going black market you are still looking at 30 quid every 4-7 weeks for your test and another £30 a month for your HCG.

 

[neversickanymore]

Looking at the picture I don’t think you have anything to gain

 

[Phobos]

So I am in my mid 30's and have had this long-standing desire to inject maybe 200mg(?) or so of some testosterone ester in my muscle once a week.

The question is, what do I hope to gain? I have naturally high testosterone and now even in my mid 30s i test in the high 800's low 900's. When i was younger I would regular test above the reference range and get an "H" next to the number (ie, "high" or abnormal). Granted I'm less aware my free testosterone looks like. And i'm not bald so it looks like my 5-alpha-reductase doesn't convert to it to the more anabolic DHT.

Still I put on muscle quickly, have very unusual strength for my weight and people have accused me of being on steroids because of my delts. * note the gyno isnt from steroids but from high dose methadone from years before that won't go away



Even that was on heavy amounts of opioids, and i have no interest in getting bigger than that. Wouldnt mind maybe being that size and leaner, but not trying to get bigger. It is too much work and the heavy weights really fucks with my joints. I partially tore the tendon connecting my elbow to my tricep when i was benching and am afraid of making it worse by benching much more than two plates these days anyhow (i used to be able to do two plates for 16 reps on the flat bench and well over 20 on the decline, i used to be a bench press addict).

Point is im not interested in getting bigger -- although without question I would lift more if i were injecting testosterone, i would take advantage of it, just smarter not heavier, I'm done with lifting heavy, in fact i see no benefit of getting anywhere beyond my 5 RM. Would be nice to get a good lean rip going though, that seems bad ass. But really my main interest isnt that (i could get a lean ripped physique if i paid attention to my diet), my main interest in adding testosterone is more for cognitive and motivation improvements.

Anyone have information on the gains and benefits (and downsides) in that regard? Ie what one gains in terms of cognition, drive, motivation, mood etc and what one gives up (like anxiety, physical side-effects etc). Im talking strictly about testosterone, intramuscular at maybe 125 to 250mg a week. My concern is that it will just permanently shut me down/induce exogenous testosterone dependency when i technically have a good thing going with my high testosterone (and the benefit of strength yet lack of hair loss). On the flip side, i wonder what i missing from not having true supraphysiological testosterone levels?

You would gain a few kg of lean muscle in a few months even from just 200mg per week of test.
If you restrict your calories you will keep a lot more muscle and loose more fat, and feel better during the process.
You would be stronger, so you would need to be careful of injuries, especially your old elbow tendon tear.
Your gyno may get worse, and you may need to take an AI to counter that, which would add to the complexity of managing your self experimentation.
Seeing as it originated during a period of heavy opiate use, it may not be an issue for you, but I hear that once you have gyno it's easier to trigger it again.
You have an impressive physique already, and I totally believe that you get accused of PED use as it is, well if you take even 150mg of test per week there will be enough of a difference that it will come up more often.

In my personal experience and that of others that I know, moderate Testosterone use will improve your average mood, and the lowest moments won't be as low.
You'd have more energy and the energy would not decline as much towards the end of the day.
My memory is better, both short term and long term, and I am way more motivated.
I am not dependent on a good night's sleep for being able to have a productive day, 6-7 hours now are the equivalent of 10 hours before, and 3 hours of 6.
Also, it is way easier now for me to fall asleep and the quality of my sleep has massively improved.
My anxiety has basically disappeared and stressful situations affect me a lot less.
I had chronic back pain due to stiff muscles (I had no injuries it's just hat my back muscles would tense up a lot), and that has basically disappeared.
Since I started taking Test, I have stopped my pattern of using stims daily, taking a few weeks off and being on for another couple of months, and my drug use has been limited to infrequent tripping, like once or twice a month but with breaks of 2 months here and there.

The thing is that with your test being already high, you basically wouldn't see any benefits from using very moderate dosages, like say 100 to 125mg per week, you would need to take 150 to 200mg/week for it to be noticeable enough to potentially be worth it, so there would be more potential for side effects like gyno flare ups, high blood pressure and bad lipid profile.
Now, 200mg is still a moderate dose, and any concern, exception made for the gyno, would be in terms of long term health and longevity, so you would need to do bloodwork and check your BP to see how you are doing and avoid bad surprises in 25 years.

 

[negrogesic]

Looking at the picture I don’t think you have anything to gain

My goal isn't to get bigger. I wouldn't mind being smaller than myself in that picture but leaner. The strain on my joints and tendons that are associated with growing any larger doesn't seem worth it. Never really focused on getting huge, nor have I ever been particularly disciplined with diet or etc. I have been pretty disciplined with my training however, and I do like lifting increasingly heavy weights as a sort of challenge to myself. My tendons and joints however like it less. Can't count how many times I've thrown out my back doing heavy standing barbell curls.

So my purpose for increasing my testosterone even further are mainly for other benefits. Mood, outlook, energy, anxiety reduction etc.

Plus my other hope is that I could maintain a decent lean size without spending 2 hours in the gym straining my joints and connective tissue with very heavy weights.

Problem is, at my age, would taking exogenous testosterone now be a life sentence essentially? Ie, i would be indefinitely dependent on them?

The worst thing would be say i try it for a few cycles only, lose a bunch of hair and shut down the already pretty effective natural testosterone factory I've got going. Yet on the flip side, we only live once (at least as far as I know) and am I missing out on not having a supraphysiological amount of testosterone. Would I be happier, more effective, more energetic and more productive in the years that matter most?

 

[negrogesic]

In my personal experience and that of others that I know, moderate Testosterone use will improve your average mood, and the lowest moments won't be as low.
You'd have more energy and the energy would not decline as much towards the end of the day.
My memory is better, both short term and long term, and I am way more motivated.
I am not dependent on a good night's sleep for being able to have a productive day, 6-7 hours now are the equivalent of 10 hours before, and 3 hours of 6.
Also, it is way easier now for me to fall asleep and the quality of my sleep has massively improved.
My anxiety has basically disappeared and stressful situations affect me a lot less.
I had chronic back pain due to stiff muscles (I had no injuries it's just hat my back muscles would tense up a lot), and that has basically disappeared.
Since I started taking Test, I have stopped my pattern of using stims daily, taking a few weeks off and being on for another couple of months, and my drug use has been limited to infrequent tripping, like once or twice a month but with breaks of 2 months here and there.

See, this is essentially what I am after with testosterone use.

 

[neversickanymore]

My goal isn't to get bigger. I wouldn't mind being smaller than myself in that picture but leaner. The strain on my joints and tendons that are associated with growing any larger doesn't seem worth it. Never really focused on getting huge, nor have I ever been particularly disciplined with diet or etc. I have been pretty disciplined with my training however, and I do like lifting increasingly heavy weights as a sort of challenge to myself. My tendons and joints however like it less. Can't count how many times I've thrown out my back doing heavy standing barbell curls.

So my purpose for increasing my testosterone even further are mainly for other benefits. Mood, outlook, energy, anxiety reduction etc.

Plus my other hope is that I could maintain a decent lean size without spending 2 hours in the gym straining my joints and connective tissue with very heavy weights.

Problem is, at my age, would taking exogenous testosterone now be a life sentence essentially? Ie, i would be indefinitely dependent on them?

The worst thing would be say i try it for a few cycles only, lose a bunch of hair and shut down the already pretty effective natural testosterone factory I've got going. Yet on the flip side, we only live once (at least as far as I know) and am I missing out on not having a supraphysiological amount of testosterone. Would I be happier, more effective, more energetic and more productive in the years that matter most?

What are your levels typically tested out at?

 

[negrogesic]

What are your levels typically tested out at?

High 800's low 900's last few tests. Years ago I would test even higher and get an "H" next to the number (ie, out of reference range).

Note that I think it runs on my maternal side, the high testosterone. Not surprisingly a high incidence of prostate cancer. Killed my grandfather, who was a natural strong man and weightlifter who remained lean and muscular until he died of prostate cancer in his 60s.

 

[Phobos]

Problem is, at my age, would taking exogenous testosterone now be a life sentence essentially? Ie, i would be indefinitely dependent on them?

The worst thing would be say i try it for a few cycles only, lose a bunch of hair and shut down the already pretty effective natural testosterone factory I've got going. Yet on the flip side, we only live once (at least as far as I know) and am I missing out on not having a supraphysiological amount of testosterone. Would I be happier, more effective, more energetic and more productive in the years that matter most?

It is not unrealistic that you might be able to use 150 to 200mg per week without any breaks for a decade or 2 and suffer no ill consequences, if you keep training and eating clean.
Cycling would mean you will be feeling like shit for a few weeks when you come off until your production gets back up to speed, and that may (or may not) make opiates seem like a good idea, so take it into consideration.

Also, not everyone responds the same and in my case I don't do well on more than 150mg of test per week, but I am experimenting with adding other compounds.
I too don't really care for physical size or looks and I am just after the mental effects, and Masteron and Equipoise in small amounts on top of 150mg of Test make me feel better than just Testosterone on its own.

Not surprisingly a high incidence of prostate cancer. Killed my grandfather, who was a natural strong man and weightlifter who remained lean and muscular until he died of prostate cancer in his 60s.

This may or may not be an issue, but basically your prostate will be either affected by exogenous Testosterone or it won't, dosage won't really matter as the prostate has a limited amount of androgen receptors and produces its own DHT internally.
Natural production is almost maxing out the androgen receptors in prostate, and taking even moderate TRT will cause maximum androgen stimulation, meaning that blasting 4x the amount make a difference.
There are ways to pharmacologically counter this, like using some Nandrolone or Boldenone together with test, or using a 5a reductase inhibitor like Finasteride or Dutasteride, but these drugs obviously have each their own side effect profile and you may or may not be able to tolerate them without issue.

 

[Conky]

Why strictly testosterone?

If you're looking for mental benefits then what you need is a DHT derivative such as Mesterolone or Drostanolone

Most of testosterone's benefits come from it's conversion to DHT anyways

 

[Phobos]

Why strictly testosterone?

If you're looking for mental benefits then what you need is a DHT derivative such as Mesterolone or Drostanolone

Most of testosterone's benefits come from it's conversion to DHT anyways

I would absolutely recommend experimenting with Mesterolone (Proviron) or Drostanolone (Masteron) after 5-6 weeks on test only.
I've been using Drostanolone for over a year and very small amounts are very effective for mental performance.
Too much and the joints dry up and the risk of injuries increases a lot.

 

[Serotonin101]

I would absolutely recommend experimenting with Mesterolone (Proviron) or Drostanolone (Masteron) after 5-6 weeks on test only.
I've been using Drostanolone for over a year and very small amounts are very effective for mental performance.
Too much and the joints dry up and the risk of injuries increases a lot.

Have you ever tried using straight dht or a methyl-dht? Contemplating throwing it in during a cruise as mast doesn't do anything for me but don't wanna wreck lipids with winstrol and don't wanna spend money on primo lol

 

[negrogesic]

It is not unrealistic that you might be able to use 150 to 200mg per week without any breaks for a decade or 2 and suffer no ill consequences, if you keep training and eating clean.
Cycling would mean you will be feeling like shit for a few weeks when you come off until your production gets back up to speed, and that may (or may not) make opiates seem like a good idea, so take it into consideration.

Also, not everyone responds the same and in my case I don't do well on more than 150mg of test per week, but I am experimenting with adding other compounds.
I too don't really care for physical size or looks and I am just after the mental effects, and Masteron and Equipoise in small amounts on top of 150mg of Test make me feel better than just Testosterone on its own.

This may or may not be an issue, but basically your prostate will be either affected by exogenous Testosterone or it won't, dosage won't really matter as the prostate has a limited amount of androgen receptors and produces its own DHT internally.
Natural production is almost maxing out the androgen receptors in prostate, and taking even moderate TRT will cause maximum androgen stimulation, meaning that blasting 4x the amount make a difference.
There are ways to pharmacologically counter this, like using some Nandrolone or Boldenone together with test, or using a 5a reductase inhibitor like Finasteride or Dutasteride, but these drugs obviously have each their own side effect profile and you may or may not be able to tolerate them without issue.

Very interesting.

So essentially I would simply stay on 200mg/week indefinitely? My muscle kind of aches just thinking about all those IM injections. My sole experience with "steroids" was a decade ago when I shot one 250mg sustanon preloaded syringe (that I picked up in Mexico) into my glute muscle simply out of curiosity about what it would do. It was sore for days. I didn't really notice much from that shot, although I do remember that around 3 days after the shot, I went to go pick up the car I had lent my brother-in-law only to find I couldn't drive it back because he had left the headlights on and drained the battery (and he didn't have jumper cables). I remember feeling a bit more reactive and also sort of physically shaky with a sort of nervous energy.

Anxiety relief is a big driving factor behind my interest in it now. Testosterone has pretty pronounced anxiolytic activity in animals studies (although some conflicting ones demonstrating anxiogenic properties as well -- though these are fewer in number and if i recall correctly they are situation dependent).

But I am wondering how many x milligrams/week of intramuscular testosterone would equate to y ng/dl of in the blood. For instance, would 200mg/week of testosterone produce serum testosterone of say 1,200ng/dl (or etc)? Granted we are all different but I imagine a crude formula exists?

The other issue I suppose is a supply issue. I would imagine it is possible to get an rx for testosterone from some shady osteopath TRT doctor (since I am assuming no legitimate TRT physician would prescribe testosterone to a guy in his mid thirties who can regularly exceed 900ng/dl of serum testosterone). Otherwise I would have get diverted pharmaceutical grade testosterone or even rely on "homebrew" concoctions (which I would very much like to avoid). I suppose a third option would be to get ahold of some raw testosterone powder and create my own formulation using some highly filtered carrier oil of some sort. The last option I suppose would be to go down to Mexico and buy it. In any event i forsee some supply issues and a host of complications/potential supply interruptions.

Personally I think it would be worth it but it is a hell of a commitment and a seemingly huge decision. It seems as though once I start there will be no going back since I am sure I would have a hard time dealing with the shutdown effects should I stop.

Does anyone else notice psychological/

 

[Phobos]

Have you ever tried using straight dht or a methyl-dht? Contemplating throwing it in during a cruise as mast doesn't do anything for me but don't wanna wreck lipids with winstrol and don't wanna spend money on primo lol

Never tried that, I'd be curious to experiment, but never seen any of the UK domestic shops I use stock it.
There is a site that seems legit that ships from Asia that has DHT cream and I might go for it as importing a small amount of AAS it's not considered a crime here.
But honestly I would prefer injectable esterified DHT.

 

[Phobos]

Very interesting.

So essentially I would simply stay on 200mg/week indefinitely? My muscle kind of aches just thinking about all those IM injections. My sole experience with "steroids" was a decade ago when I shot one 250mg sustanon preloaded syringe (that I picked up in Mexico) into my glute muscle simply out of curiosity about what it would do. It was sore for days.

You can pin SubQ when you're doing small dosages like 200mg, I do small shots EOD (every other day) in my lower belly fat to keep my levels super stable, which prevents ups and downs and excessive aromatisation into Estrogen.
It is common that an injection site will be sore when you start using it but the pain and inflammation gradually become less significant.

But I am wondering how many x milligrams/week of intramuscular testosterone would equate to y ng/dl of in the blood. For instance, would 200mg/week of testosterone produce serum testosterone of say 1,200ng/dl (or etc)? Granted we are all different but I imagine a crude formula exists?

You should get above 2000 ng/dl about 24 hours after a single 200mg shot, but there is a lot of room for variation.
Some people absorb Test faster than others, and some excrete Test faster than others.
Also, the higher the test levels the faster your body tries to get rid of it, so doing one big shot per week is not the most efficient method.

 

[deficiT]

I'm just popping in to get alerts on this thread. I've had an interest in possibly looking into low test levels being a factor in some of my mental health issues. I have yet to get my levels tested, but am definitely interested in learning more about it.

 

[Phobos]

I'm just popping in to get alerts on this thread. I've had an interest in possibly looking into low test levels being a factor in some of my mental health issues. I have yet to get my levels tested, but am definitely interested in learning more about it.

Have you looked up low test symptoms?
And on a related note, the reference range for testosterone is, in the words of the guy that compiled the data to create it, just that, a reference.
Meaning that if a test comes out as within reference range it doesn't mean that the issues that the patient is experiencing are not related to low T, it just makes it less likely.
Some people might be fine at a certain level, others might not.

Also, not that I recommend it, but since Testosterone is psychoactive (well, DHT and Estrogen that are derived from it are), taking it will have an effect even if you are not deficient.

 

[OpiateKiller]

Just enjoy your high natural T. You could maybe start injecting in 10 years, at around 45.

Now it doesnt make any sense. You will lost also the possibility of have childs as well

This is entirely false and untrue. I did steroids non stop from 22-27, test, Tren, dianabol, anavar..

I’ve been off for 3 months and I’m entirely fertile. Don’t spread misinformation. Yes it’s possible it could happen but it’s unlikely. The biggest juice head I know got a girl pregnant 10 years deep of shooting steroids.

 

[OpiateKiller]

Personally I love steroids they’re risks are greatly overstated. They’ll make your sex drive out of this world, improve muscle, confidence… they basically just made my
Life better in every aspect.

I am glad to be allowing my body reset to baseline after 5 years