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Bupe Switching from tianeptine to suboxone.

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Prescottdave

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 15, 2014
Messages
530
Has anyone switched from tianeptine to a low dose of Suboxone like 1-2 mg? Did they experience any type of WD symptoms after being on the sub for a few days. Was there a strong anti-depressant WD factor that the sub did not address? I am on doses of 30 mg 4x a day. I have a long history of opiate addiction and was previously on suboxone so I know the risks and benefits that go along with ORT. I also take 50 mg of tramadol 2x each day and would be stopping the tramadol and tianeptine 24-30 hours before induction. I am actually not to worried about the possible SSRI WD symptoms from the tramadol as I have dealt with them before and found them to be mild. The tianeptine cross over would be uncharted territory
 
I'm not going to lie, you got yourself into quite the predicament. I could be wrong, but I don't think any of the 3, will alleviate the other's WD symptoms 100%.. All 3 are unique, and act on various sites with varying strengths.

I would try slowly (10-20 % of your dose/wk) tapering off the tia', then once you have that out of your system, you can go ahead and start your tramadol taper. Even if you decide to just do a full agonist and skip the wd's, I would still taper off the tramadol! I wouldn't introduce bupe.

Wanted to add, don't go into tramadol wds thinking symptoms are going to be mild. The tianeptine very well could exacerbate the anti depressant components of the WD.. Read up on its mechanism of action.


- hs
 
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^I don't agree because OP is only taking a very low dose of Tramadol. 2x50mg per day is really not much so it should be very doable to taper it off relatively fast.

I can't say much regarding the Tianeptine though and how Bupre will cover the WDs but theoretically it should help at least with the opioid effects of Tianeptine and Tramadol.
I would start as low as possible when inducing the Subs, like with 0,5 mg-1mg. 2mg could be too much already as your Tianeptine dose isn't that big either.

Maybe someone else chimes in but I think your idea is solid. Try it and report please, good luck :)
 
I have transitioned from high dosages of tramadol to say lortab or poppy pods several times in the past with only mild SSRI type WD symptoms. This time I am not to worried about the tram as I have only been using it for 4 weeks at low dosages. The thing is the longer I use and the more I transition sometimes it feels harder though dose always plays a role in the process. Thanks for the feedback. I will taper the tianeptine as suggested. I will be out of tram in two days with really no room for tapering that unfortunately. Maybe some type of supplement would help during the first week to help my system deal with a lack of I guess seratonin and dopamine.
 
OP I think 1-2mgs of Suboxone will certainly cover your opioid needs. You don't sound too concerned about the AD effects that those drugs posses which is fine if you have weathered those symptoms before -I don't appear to have much issue with SSRI's, but certainly have experienced some less desirable effects with SNRI's, Effexor being the culprit. I had my dose doubled and decided to drop back after one month at the doubled dose and after only one month I definitely experienced increased anxiety where there wouldn't normally be any.

And I've taken what would be considered irresponsible and risky dosages of Tramadol which I used occasionally for opioid maintenance (oxycodone).....even when I was opioid naïve Tramadol never gave me any positive physical or emotional response so no desire to 'abuse' it like any typically euphoric opiate/opioid. I literally have up to an ounce of the stuff sitting around in the form of sheets of instant and extended release caps. It's nice to actually have abuse able drugs in close proximity that I am not compelled to perform that special kind of magic on them and make it vanish!
 
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I was taking way more tianeptine than that and I felt nothing unusual at all once I stopped. Seems like withdrawal from that doesn't register with everyone.
 
Nether Animal said:
I was taking way more tianeptine than that and I felt nothing unusual at all once I stopped. Seems like withdrawal from that doesn't register with everyone.
Click to expand...
What other drugs were you taking at the time? And did you cease use of those at the same time as the tianeptine discontinuation? Or was tianeptine the only thing you were taking?


- Hopeless...
 
Just the tianeptine and smoking marijuana a few times a week.

I wasn't really measuring my doses but I was using an eighth of a teaspoon to scoop it out. I went through 7 grams in about 18-20 days.
 
Yeah that's the thing, by its self the wds are doable, but it's interactions with other drugs tends to complicate detoxes. Being a TCA, I'm not sure how it would interact with Tramadol's SSRI components..

Were you taking large enough doses to generate opioid analgesia?


- Hopeless...
 
You're asking me? No, I didn't get anything like that out of it but I've been using heroin for the better part of 7 years. Just taking one of many forced breaks from it at the moment and that is why I ordered the tianeptine in the first place; looking for something to fill that void. I ended up taking huge doses in the morning because damn that shit wakes you up. I was really enjoying the speedy well being feeling it gave me. Never noticed anything even approaching opiate like effects. Felt more like adderall to me.
 
Yeah I was asking you. Tianeptine is a full opioid agonist, and at high doses modulates the u-opioid receptor, however it has a relatively low affinity for that site..


- Hopeless
 
Nether Animal said:
Just the tianeptine and smoking marijuana a few times a week.

I wasn't really measuring my doses but I was using an eighth of a teaspoon to scoop it out. I went through 7 grams in about 18-20 days.
Click to expand...
That would put you at about 350mg/day, which exceeds the suggested max daily intake. (300mg/day 100mg 3x). I'm surprised you didn't feel analgesia at those doses. You must've had a really high opioid tolerance!


- hs
 
7nos-SS373dOH said:
Which part don't you agree with?

- hs
Click to expand...

These 2 parts:

7nos-SS373dOH said:
I'm not going to lie, you got yourself into quite the predicament.

Wanted to add, don't go into tramadol wds thinking symptoms are going to be mild.
Click to expand...

Because 100mg Tramadol a day is really not much and I dont know much about Tianeptine but OP at least doesnt shoot it or takes ridiculous amounts like others I have read from. So I think he will be fine with tapering and maybe switching to Bupe.

Higher doses of Tram over a long period are fucking nasty to come off but this seems relatively harmless compared to a lot of other habits.
 
^ Normally I'd agree with you in the fact that 100mg tramadol isn't too bad to detox from, but the TCA properties of tianeptine could complicate a tramadol detox..


- hs
 
What do you mean when you say you ordered it? Are you doing this under the supervision of a physician? Treating depression on your own is tricky, and there are much better drugs out there than the TCA you are currently taking.

Don't expect a strong antidepressant effect from Suboxone.
 
Ok so I made the switch without incident. This is how I did it. Went from 100 mg of tramadol and about 120 mg of tianeptine spread throughout the day to 0.5 mg of buprenorphine. The day before I transitioned I only took tianeptine at a dose of about 150 mg spread over the day. I waited 16 hours from my last dose of about 30 mg of tianeptine to take the sub. This was a long 16 hours. Took the last 30 mg of T at about 9 PM. Woke up at 3:30 AM in WD. Throughout the day the WD got worse. It consisted of dilated pupils, sneezing every 15 minutes, yawning, goose flesh, RLS, sweating and an aching feeling. I was really scared that the sub would somehow cause PWD from the tianeptine.


I took 0.25 mg of bupe and waited 45 minutes to see if it caused PWD. It did not and I took another 0.25 mg an hour later. This was enough to completely rid me of WD's and cover up any other symptoms such as depression.


I do not feel depressed nor any type of SSRI WD symptoms. It has been a number of days since I took the tramadol and over 24 hours since taking my last dose of tianeptine. I think there is some misunderstanding regarding the AD effects from tianeptine. It is my understanding that the AD side of the drug is caused by an effect on the MU opiod receptor and glutamate. Tianeptine is not considered a TCA as far as I know. I could have likely waited less then 16 hours to take the sub but since I have been traumatized by PWD in the past I played it safe.
 
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Glad to hear it worked that well for you. And also great that 0,5mg are enough. I wouldnt raise it at all but stay on as low as possible of a dosage so it will be easier when you want to taper off.
How is your plan now? Do you wanna stay longer on the Bupe or do a relatively fast taper?
 
7nos-SS373dOH said:
That would put you at about 350mg/day, which exceeds the suggested max daily intake. (300mg/day 100mg 3x). I'm surprised you didn't feel analgesia at those doses. You must've had a really high opioid tolerance!


- hs
Click to expand...

you will go through withdrawal at higher doses. Try 5-7 grams / day. You will be nodding out with pinned pupils.
 
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