Opioids Suboxone

[Binky7766]

Calling all suboxone experts! I went through a cold turkey withdrawal from opiates about a year and a half ago. It was a terrible process, and I swore that I would never let it happen again. Unfortunately, it has happened again. I had been taking methadone here and there for about seven months (not prescribed). I’m not taking it anymore, but was prescribed some oxycodone for valid pain. I’ve only been on it for five days, but I take two pills rather than one because just one pill does not kill the pain. I’m trying to taper, but it’s very difficult, obviously, especially since I was taking methadone previously. Has anyone here had any experience with a Suboxone program? I’ve heard that it’s very difficult to withdraw from in the end. Is it worth it for me to go through the program to help me withdraw from the Oxy, if I’m just going to have to withdraw from the Suboxone eventually? Is the Suboxone withdrawal less intense than the oxycodone withdrawal? I am seriously considering Suboxone program, so any feedback that I can get will be of great help. Thank you.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey @Binky7766

I think I can help you out a little bit. Hopefully some others will chime in and get you some variation.

Buprenorphine (Suboxone) has never struck me as being harder than any other Opioid of proportionate dosage to withdraw from. A lot is often said of how difficult it is to withdraw from Opioid maintenance, which would include Methadone but I think the biggest issue is surrounding the nature of maintenance itself. You give someone a perpetual prescription to an Opioid and put the ball in their court. It can make it pretty difficult for a person to break away from permanently.

I think there is also something to be said for the long-acting nature of these drugs. I believe this also comes into play. The fact that the withdrawal experience is a more protracted experience can really change how a person feels about it. Me personally, I always found it easier dealing with the longer withdrawal phase, but this was me taking gradual, intentional drops and not me getting thrown in jail to do the whole thing cold-turkey. Yes, if you ask me, doing Methadone or Buprenorphine withdrawal combines the worst of all worlds, psychological, phsysical and spiritual, so I'd advise against that. If you do the right things and don't take risks, you shouldn't have to worry about this outcome. If you're the type of person for whom this eventuality seems possible, yea, maintenance might not be in your best interest.

Maintenance is best for people who are willing to take all the steps necessary to get better. An addiction is not over once the withdrawal has ended. I'm not going to overload you with rhetoric here regarding sobriety. Take these words seriously though.

I think going on a Buprenorphine taper could be the right thing for you. It would be a way of taking measured drops in your toerance without having to worry about the often erratice nature of self-medicating with Opioids. You can go, get your dose once a day or once a week and start working on the issues that are contributing to your addiction. If you play your cards right and engage in the entire process of getting better, you could be successful and be free from all Opioids at the end of 3 months.

If you have any other specific questions let me know.

 

[AlsoTapered]

The body doesn't remember pain. It's a self-defence mechanism so we don't end up with PTSD after each awful life event.

Others have said it but 7-14 days is about as long as you want to use buprenorphine. In my case, I was given 4,6,8... and upwards on proceeding days. I asked if I could split the dose and was told I could not. But the HR worker just said 'do what works' so I took 2mg [QID] for 7 days and stopped. It was my first and only experience with buprenorphine.

Beware of thienorphine which will be in use in a year or two. A duration measured in days. I'm sure the researchers mean well, but I have terrible forebodings about this medicine.

But Keif is the expert and so if I were in bother with dependence, that's who I would ask.

 

[Binky7766]

Hey @Binky7766

I think I can help you out a little bit. Hopefully some others will chime in and get you some variation.

Buprenorphine (Suboxone) has never struck me as being harder than any other Opioid of proportionate dosage to withdraw from. A lot is often said of how difficult it is to withdraw from Opioid maintenance, which would include Methadone but I think the biggest issue is surrounding the nature of maintenance itself. You give someone a perpetual prescription to an Opioid and put the ball in their court. It can make it pretty difficult for a person to break away from permanently.

I think there is also something to be said for the long-acting nature of these drugs. I believe this also comes into play. The fact that the withdrawal experience is a more protracted experience can really change how a person feels about it. Me personally, I always found it easier dealing with the longer withdrawal phase, but this was me taking gradual, intentional drops and not me getting thrown in jail to do the whole thing cold-turkey. Yes, if you ask me, doing Methadone or Buprenorphine withdrawal combines the worst of all worlds, psychological, phsysical and spiritual, so I'd advise against that. If you do the right things and don't take risks, you shouldn't have to worry about this outcome. If you're the type of person for whom this eventuality seems possible, yea, maintenance might not be in your best interest.

Maintenance is best for people who are willing to take all the steps necessary to get better. An addiction is not over once the withdrawal has ended. I'm not going to overload you with rhetoric here regarding sobriety. Take these words seriously though.

I think going on a Buprenorphine taper could be the right thing for you. It would be a way of taking measured drops in your toerance without having to worry about the often erratice nature of self-medicating with Opioids. You can go, get your dose once a day or once a week and start working on the issues that are contributing to your addiction. If you play your cards right and engage in the entire process of getting better, you could be successful and be free from all Opioids at the end of 3 months.

If you have any other specific questions let me know.

Thank you so much for your reply. I was thinking that the Suboxone maintenance program inevitably lead to withdrawal, so I’d would be trading one withdrawal (oxy) for another (suboxone). But you’re saying that if I’m in a suboxone maintenance program I will not have a withdrawal at the end of the program? Is that Right? Also, do you know if my primary care provider has to sign off to give me permission for the Suboxone program or is it the Doctor Who runs the program who signs off on it?

 

[AlsoTapered]

It's a profitable business. the Sackler family had a patented product (OxyContin) and kept that thing on the shelves until they had twisted every penny from it.

Now buprenorphine implants are normalizing being dependent on an opioid. It's big business with all of these formulations now having patents and so don't expect a change until THOSE patents run out.

I've never tried kratom but it's too costly to produce synthetically and so vendors are now just making the most out of the dependence of others. They are no better.

I know that some modern opioids have JUST come into use that do not lead to dependence... but I am willing to bet that the startup that made them will be bought up so that they don't replace other opioids... because they would serious harm the profit of others.

I'm tempted to patent a similar compound JUST because I'm sure someone will buy up the rights....

 

[Dreamflyer]

I only have a little bit of experience with Suboxone, but I'll be happy to share...

1) I think it's definitely better than shooting heroin or spending hundreds/thousands of dollars on Oxy, etc.

2) Just try not to get hooked on it and substitute one addiction for another.

3) It's not for everyone. My friend went on it and it saved her life, allowing her to function and feel normal. I tried it twice and reacted horribly to it. Not an allergic reaction, but more like the worst hangover of my life.

Stay safe, my friend!

 

[Binky7766]

I only have a little bit of experience with Suboxone, but I'll be happy to share...

1) I think it's definitely better than shooting heroin or spending hundreds/thousands of dollars on Oxy, etc.

2) Just try not to get hooked on it and substitute one addiction for another.

3) It's not for everyone. My friend went on it and it saved her life, allowing her to function and feel normal. I tried it twice and reacted horribly to it. Not an allergic reaction, but more like the worst hangover of my life.

Stay safe, my friend!

 

[Binky7766]

Yikes, thank you for the warning! Questions: how long did the hangover feeling last, &, did you have a high tolerance for opiates at the time? Were you sick from it from the first dose? I ask because I did try half of a strip once & didn’t get sick.

 

[Binky7766]

Yikes, thank you for the warning! Questions: how long did the hangover feeling last, &, did you have a high tolerance for opiates at the time? Were you sick from it from the first dose? I ask because I did try half of a strip once & didn’t get sick.

 

[AlsoTapered]

I only have a little bit of experience with Suboxone, but I'll be happy to share...

1) I think it's definitely better than shooting heroin or spending hundreds/thousands of dollars on Oxy, etc.

2) Just try not to get hooked on it and substitute one addiction for another.

3) It's not for everyone. My friend went on it and it saved her life, allowing her to function and feel normal. I tried it twice and reacted horribly to it. Not an allergic reaction, but more like the worst hangover of my life.

Stay safe, my friend!

1)Yes

2)Very YES

3)Yes - I got massive anxiety. But I'm 1 person so statistically of no value. BUT I was not allergic. I had to mess with dosing by taking 2mg [QID] rather than 8mg in one go...... They intended to give me 16mg/day for a month! So friends got the excess (and liked it). Maybe it's SUPPOSED to be nasty because I've not been back. Better to move apart my oxy doses than end up on THAT stuff!!!!!

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey @Binky7766

You mentioned trading "one withdrawal for another". This is basically true. If you're on a Buprenorphine program, you can manage the taper and withdrawal process to the extent that discomfort is minimal. Withdrawal is always going to be uncomfortable to some extent, but I believe you can withdraw from even notorious drugs like Buprenorphine or Methadone without relapsing or becoming totally non-functional. I've done it and I've seen other people do it. I believe many of the people with horror stories regarding maintenance often have other drugs including Alcohol in their story in some way. I'm not saying this is true for everyone.

I've had experience with all of the Opioids including the two mentioned above. I've fucked myself over and withdrawn rapidly from Methadone and I've also tapered slowly while in a period of sobriety. The former was a living hell and the latter wasn' t really bad at all. I didn't even miss a day of work through the whole process. If you're not willing to change other areas of your life, maintenance can be a massive anchor tying you further down with bullshit. If you have a plan, it can save your life. You see both kinds.

If you're in the United States, you do not typically need the "permission" of a doctor per se. Some doctors might not want to work with you if you're on Buprenorphine, but I'm going to say that this is extremely rare in this age. At any rate, your doctor will likely find out or need to be told, so prepare yourself for that conversation.

The laws vary from state to state. In Vermont or Massachusetts, any doctor who has passed a 3-day seminar/course can prescribe Buprenorphine. Hospital ED's prescribe starter packs of Buprenorphine along with appointments for further scripts. I'm sure this isn't the case down south or in the midwest, but it is a trend that seems to be common now.

See what is available in your area when you search Google. That should give you some answers. Feel free hit us back if you have any other questions. Good luck!

 

[AlsoTapered]

I think buprenorphine is quite good for physical dependence, but not good with addiction.

<please do not brag about your stash of unused drugs - SMod>

Thursday 'we are out - come tomorrow, we will have it;
Friday 'we are out - come tomorrow, we will have it'
Saturday 'we are out - it will come later'
Sunday 'we can't get it, here's your prescription back

<unnecessary comments - SMod>

 

[MuertaMan]

Does anyone else on subs wake up every morning in a panic and feel clammy and gross no matter dosage? I'll wake up with such bad fight or flight and in tears alot of the time and I just never feel good. I was on subs for 7 years awhile back and got clean for like 5 years and I fucked up and ended up back on them now for the last 5 months and I feel like its the biggest mistake of my life. I really despise this medication, it may have its place for detox but I don't know how anyone can stay on it years without feeling shitty. Ive never been on Methadone maint. but can anyone tell me are side effects like this common with methadone once the "honeymoon" phase is over Im seriously considering switching because this is not a sustainable way to live.

 

[AlsoTapered]

Anxiety is the problem I had. Also nightmares.

I think it's USEFUL for say 7-14 days.... but my goodness, it was awful. I was supposed to take 16mg all at once. I took 8mg i.e. 2mg every 6 hours to keep down anxiety.

I'm told it's sold on the street!!!!! WTF? Who would pay tp feel SO AWFUL.


BUT if it's enabling you to stop using other opioids, stick it out if you can. I mean, TELL THEM because their IS a specific interaction but the HR agencies either lie or play dumb. NOBODY want's to accept that it isn't perfect.

Good luck!

 

[Dreamflyer]

Yikes, thank you for the warning! Questions: how long did the hangover feeling last, &, did you have a high tolerance for opiates at the time? Were you sick from it from the first dose? I ask because I did try half of a strip once & didn’t get sick

I had a very high tolerance for opioids at the time (like 300+mg of Oxy a day), but I hadn't been using at the time. The hangover feeling only lasted until the Suboxone wore off, but it felt like an eternity.

 

[Binky7766]

I had a very high tolerance for opioids at the time (like 300+mg of Oxy a day), but I hadn't been using at the time. The hangover feeling only lasted until the Suboxone wore off, but it felt like an eternity.

Well, I took a third of the 8 mg strip last night & I got an unexpected surprise of a light euphoria & complete pain relief. And the euphoria even lasted a lot longer than Oxy ever did! I also slept like a baby, & with good dreams rather than the bad ones I’d been having. I just took 2/3rd’s off the strip. I’ll see what happens there. I’ll let ya know!

 

[AlsoTapered]

Yeah - I'm guessing it's because the body can N-dealkylate the lower dose to norbuprenorphine which is a full agonist. That is, I suppose, why some people find a 'plateau' for the dose/response curve for buprenorphine and why they don't like people to split the dose.

I mean, it still reset my dependence and I didn't touch opioids until they were prescribed...

 

[MuertaMan]

I always wonder is it norbupe or is it the fact that under the ceiling its acting as an agonist still while above ceiling it takes on antagonist properties. Its the same with kratom, doses of around 6g and under with good kratom will make you chatty, energized, itchy and rubbing your face feels good (I only get that with the platinum extract though) like real opioids but when I would get greedy and double dose then Id get that shitty vertigo,headache,nausea sometimes vomiting bupe turns on me in the same way after around 8mgs.

 

[AlsoTapered]

Well, kratom is a mixture of compounds, so it's not easy to figure out what is producing the toxicity.

I mean, that's why medicinal chemistry generally looks for a single ligand. It's effects and side-effects can be closely studied and the risks understood.

Their is no such thing as a totally safe drug... be it herbal or synthetic.

 

[Dreamflyer]

I personally never understood the chemistry behind Suboxone. It's an opioid agonist and antagonist rolled into one, so you're basically half high and half in withdrawal.

I would rather either take Naloxone alone, or taper myself off with a weaker opioid.