Suboxone..Pain pills

[DeathIndustrial88]

It's my personal opinion (and it's in the medical literature) that Suboxone doesn't affect hormone levels anywhere near what other opioids do.
I had all the same issues as OP, had my hormone levels checked & it was completely normal. I probabaly have high testosterone as it is tho.

But OP's issue may not be hormone-related at all.
It's just the unfortunately reality of what happens to somebody when they take a partial agonist with a 36hr half life, daily, for years.
The only way to bring any semblance of an opioid feeling back from buprenorphine is an extended tolerance break.


It's ceiling effect prevents you from continuing to get any opioid effects out of it eventually.

If OP is only using low doses, I recommend upping your dose.
And if you're using high doses, I recommend lowering it.

A lot of people say less is more with bupe & in a way they are right but there have been times I've maintained on low doses, thought my subs were doing fuck all, only to up it a few mg and suddenly I'd feel it again.

 

[Dropperneck]

It's my personal opinion (and it's in the medical literature) that Suboxone doesn't affect hormone levels anywhere near what other opioids do.
I had all the same issues as OP, had my hormone levels checked & it was completely normal. I probabaly have high testosterone as it is tho.

But OP's issue may not be hormone-related at all.
It's just the unfortunately reality of what happens to somebody when they take a partial agonist with a 36hr half life, daily, for years.
The only way to bring any semblance of an opioid feeling back from buprenorphine is an extended tolerance break.


It's ceiling effect prevents you from continuing to get any opioid effects out of it eventually.

If OP is only using low doses, I recommend upping your dose.
And if you're using high doses, I recommend lowering it.

A lot of people say less is more with bupe & in a way they are right but there have been times I've maintained on low doses, thought my subs were doing fuck all, only to up it a few mg and suddenly I'd feel it again.

You simply can’t take a synthetic opiod daily and maintain homeostasis. Your numbers may be technically in okay ranges, but it’s not where you should likely be. I bet you can find all sorts of literature affirming that you can be super healthy while consuming Product though.
Folx take this stuff bc it’s presumably better than the alternative of being a junky or in pain, but taking a opiate daily is just never gonna be good for your health or hormones.

 

[Northerngyal]

My question is- where would you find a dr that will prescribe you the pain pills? I can understand where you’re coming from because I’m in the exact same situation. The subs ain’t doing it for my cravings and my mood is at an all time low. I miss and crave the euphoria from the Percocets. My dr upped my dose by 4 mg but I still feel crummy.

 

[Las Veghost grower]

Just order some pods…morphine is great stuff, better than bupe

 

[Northerngyal]

Just order some pods…morphine is great stuff, better than bupe

Pods? Like poppy tea ?

 

[Dropperneck]

My question is- where would you find a dr that will prescribe you the pain pills? I can understand where you’re coming from because I’m in the exact same situation. The subs ain’t doing it for my cravings and my mood is at an all time low. I miss and crave the euphoria from the Percocets. My dr upped my dose by 4 mg but I still feel crummy.

Imo quitting pharma garbage and just getting a Kratom extract shot once a month is the way to go.
Also with bupe, the more you do the less you feel imo

 

[Las Veghost grower]

Pods? Like poppy tea ?

Yes, poppy pods, I make a extract that I can put in pills or add a tsp to OJ, but a tea works too…Iv had people wding from very big H habits freaking out saying the pod extract won’t do anything for them, then after they get 2-3 tsp down they sleeping on the couch

 

[Northerngyal]

Imo quitting pharma garbage and just getting a Kratom extract shot once a month is the way to go.
Also with bupe, the more you do the less you feel imo

The only reason I’ve refrained from Kratom is I heard it causes seizures. That scares the f out of me lol.

 

[Northerngyal]

Yes, poppy pods, I make a extract that I can put in pills or add a tsp to OJ, but a tea works too…Iv had people wding from very big H habits freaking out saying the pod extract won’t do anything for them, then after they get 2-3 tsp down they sleeping on the couch

I’ve had luck with poppy seed tea. I could imagine the pods are much more potent. I wish there was a decent tutorial on how to do so.

 

[Las Veghost grower]

I’ve had luck with poppy seed tea. I could imagine the pods are much more potent. I wish there was a decent tutorial on how to do so.

Boil and evaporate for the most part, you can get fancy cleaning it up a bit but really not necessary…I clean mine up just to make it a little more potent, and so that it taste good in my morning coffee

 

[Northerngyal]

Boil and evaporate for the most part, you can get fancy cleaning it up a bit but really not necessary…I clean mine up just to make it a little more potent, and so that it taste good in my morning coffee

Ah, the most euphoric morning coffee I can imagine. Invite me over for coffee?

 

[Las Veghost grower]

Ah, the most euphoric morning coffee I can imagine. Invite me over for coffee?

It is a very satisfying way to start the day for sure

 

[Las Veghost grower]

And if you really want to catch a nod take 750mg-1g phenibut with your pod extract, very nice combo imo

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

You simply can’t take a synthetic opiod daily and maintain homeostasis. Your numbers may be technically in okay ranges, but it’s not where you should likely be. I bet you can find all sorts of literature affirming that you can be super healthy while consuming Product though.
Folx take this stuff bc it’s presumably better than the alternative of being a junky or in pain, but taking a opiate daily is just never gonna be good for your health or hormones.

We are talking about a partial agonist here.
A partial agonist isn't going to cause the same degree of problems taking a full agonist would.


"The testosterone level of buprenorphine-treated patients did not differ from that of healthy controls."

Plasma testosterone and sexual function in men receiving buprenorphine maintenance for opioid dependence - PubMed

High-dose methadone is well known to cause testosterone deficiency and sexual dysfunction in opioid-dependent men. Buprenorphine is a new drug for the pharmacotherapy of opioid dependence. Its influence on the gonadal axis has not been investigated to date. We therefore assayed testosterone...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I'd kill for lower T.
Maybe then I'd stop losing my hair & gaining it all over my body.

And taking an opioid daily isn't that "unhealthy". There's many OTC drugs people take every day that are actually more toxic to you than an opioid.
Even when an opioid does affect your hormones, they are quickly fixed with just a few day break. It's not like it's something irreversible.

Besides, before bupe I was on full agonists for over 10 years (16 years of opioids altogether including bupe).... So if I were going to have serious hormone issues from opioid use, I think I'd be seeing it by now.

Hormone imbalances aren't guaranteed just because you take opioids. Some people get issues & some people don't.
It's especially less concerning with bupe though.

 

[GeorgeWashington]

Would love some quick advice here.. my doc prescribes me monthly, 10/325 Percocet x 90, and also 30 strips of suboxone 2mg/.5mg. I have been overdoing it on my monthly allotment. Like 80mg per day. I didn’t take anything for about 18-20 hours (basically when I started to feel like shit). I took 1mg (half the strip). About to take another 1/4 of a strip. What do you think my daily dose should be around? Probably 2mg? All and any advice is much appreciated. I have micro bits of cocaine and psilocybin to help as well

I did a large dose of shrooms while in withdraw once and it was really bad. I would save those for when you’re either high and comfortable or sober and comfortable but definitely don’t use them and expect them to make you feel better when you’re down and depressed.

 

[GeorgeWashington]

We are talking about a partial agonist here.
A partial agonist isn't going to cause the same degree of problems taking a full agonist would.


"The testosterone level of buprenorphine-treated patients did not differ from that of healthy controls."

Plasma testosterone and sexual function in men receiving buprenorphine maintenance for opioid dependence - PubMed

High-dose methadone is well known to cause testosterone deficiency and sexual dysfunction in opioid-dependent men. Buprenorphine is a new drug for the pharmacotherapy of opioid dependence. Its influence on the gonadal axis has not been investigated to date. We therefore assayed testosterone...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I'd kill for lower T.
Maybe then I'd stop losing my hair & gaining it all over my body.

And taking an opioid daily isn't that "unhealthy". There's many OTC drugs people take every day that are actually more toxic to you than an opioid.
Even when an opioid does affect your hormones, they are quickly fixed with just a few day break. It's not like it's something irreversible.

Besides, before bupe I was on full agonists for over 10 years (16 years of opioids altogether including bupe).... So if I were going to have serious hormone issues from opioid use, I think I'd be seeing it by now.

Hormone imbalances aren't guaranteed just because you take opioids. Some people get issues & some people don't.
It's especially less concerning with bupe though.

Just because YOU are fine doesn’t mean everyone else is. Everyone’s hormones are different. I was on fent, kratom suboxone off and on for years. I was depressed and lacked motivation and could barely get it up. Went and got checked and was in low 200s at less than 30 years old and I have been doing landscaping for 10 years so it didn’t make much sense. It’s been about 4 months of 110mg test cyp IM weekly and I’m around 900 test now and feel great. I’ve also lost 20 lbs and put on muscle and I haven’t even lifted once but gonna start soon

I edited out the first sentence because I jumped the gun and said that before actually reading it.

It sounds great, but for whatever reason, could be psychological, I still believe that even after 6 years of being off real opiates and on something like subs or kratom or really anything, hormones could be messed up. Long periods of high stress supposedly can cause low t. It’s pretty stressful being completely dependent on a drug that doesn’t even get you high. There’s no real reason not to get a blood test and see where you’re at. Also op I will be the one to say that if none of this works I wouldn’t blame you for getting back on pills or whatever you want. I know how bad it sucks being depressed year after year, whatever you have to do to make life worth living, do it and don’t feel guilty. Just stay in control and do your best to not become totally dependent

 

[GeorgeWashington]

Thank for this.!! I have not tried it but I have wondered. I've only heard about it. Thank you.! I think I will try it.

I also suggest getting your hormones checked. You can have labcorp do it, that way you aren’t pressured into buying a supply of testosterone and can check all your blood results before making a decision.

You can also get diagnosed with adhd and get an adderall script pretty easy. Definitely helpful for putting a pep in your step and getting away from the opiates. Message me if u need help w that

 

[Xorkoth]

I have an appointment with a hormone doctor on Tuesday, I suspect low T because my friend who had it and went on testosterone said that my symptoms are right in line. So I guess I'll see.

The only reason I’ve refrained from Kratom is I heard it causes seizures. That scares the f out of me lol.

Never heard of kratom causing seizures. However, that being said, if you're on suboxone, you won't feel anything at all from kratom, probably. You'll have to stop suboxone and wait for at least a week for it to clear your system enough to be able to feel kratom, in all likelihood. kratom is also a partial agonist, like suboxone, and you may find that it is disappointing, until such a time comes as you manage to be clean from opioids for a solid period of time.

But in any case, I have never heard of seizures from kratom. I have spent a good 8 or 9 years of my life (in total) heavily addicted to kratom, taking up to 100 grams a day, and have never had any health problems from it, other than severe addiction/withdrawals, and have never heard or read about anyone getting seizures. The worst I've read about is that it seems that a small percentage of people get ;pretty bad liver issues from it, but it seems very rare. I have never had even slightly worrisome liver values even during a long-term 100 grams a day habit.

 

[GeorgeWashington]

I have an appointment with a hormone doctor on Tuesday, I suspect low T because my friend who had it and went on testosterone said that my symptoms are right in line. So I guess I'll see.



Never heard of kratom causing seizures. However, that being said, if you're on suboxone, you won't feel anything at all from kratom, probably. You'll have to stop suboxone and wait for at least a week for it to clear your system enough to be able to feel kratom, in all likelihood. kratom is also a partial agonist, like suboxone, and you may find that it is disappointing, until such a time comes as you manage to be clean from opioids for a solid period of time.

But in any case, I have never heard of seizures from kratom. I have spent a good 8 or 9 years of my life (in total) heavily addicted to kratom, taking up to 100 grams a day, and have never had any health problems from it, other than severe addiction/withdrawals, and have never heard or read about anyone getting seizures. The worst I've read about is that it seems that a small percentage of people get ;pretty bad liver issues from it, but it seems very rare. I have never had even slightly worrisome liver values even during a long-term 100 grams a day habit.

100 gs a day that’s insane. How were you getting that much in you?

On the doctor visit, personally I’d recommend getting your own blood test results before hand, because they have been known to fudge the results when trying to sell you on it. Or at least they’ll use something that gives on the spot results when it usually takes a few days. And for whatever reason they usually come back lower than the lab tests.

Still even if your levels are in a normal range, if they’re not high which they almost certainly aren’t if you have all the symptoms, it’s worth giving it a try for 6 months. I mean hell look at all the other shit we put in our bodies. Why not try some extra male hormone ?

You should find out if they are going to give you a bottle and you load your own syringes , or if they give pre loaded syringes. The first one is better for a few reasons. Definitely ask them about free testosterone and look that up if you don’t know what it is. If they tell you free t isn’t important, I would look for somewhere else to get it if possible. There are some docs selling trt that don’t really have their patients best interest in mind

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Just because YOU are fine doesn’t mean everyone else is. Everyone’s hormones are different. I was on fent, kratom suboxone off and on for years. I was depressed and lacked motivation and could barely get it up. Went and got checked and was in low 200s at less than 30 years old and I have been doing landscaping for 10 years so it didn’t make much sense. It’s been about 4 months of 110mg test cyp IM weekly and I’m around 900 test now and feel great. I’ve also lost 20 lbs and put on muscle and I haven’t even lifted once but gonna start soon

I edited out the first sentence because I jumped the gun and said that before actually reading it.

It sounds great, but for whatever reason, could be psychological, I still believe that even after 6 years of being off real opiates and on something like subs or kratom or really anything, hormones could be messed up. Long periods of high stress supposedly can cause low t. It’s pretty stressful being completely dependent on a drug that doesn’t even get you high. There’s no real reason not to get a blood test and see where you’re at. Also op I will be the one to say that if none of this works I wouldn’t blame you for getting back on pills or whatever you want. I know how bad it sucks being depressed year after year, whatever you have to do to make life worth living, do it and don’t feel guilty. Just stay in control and do your best to not become totally dependent

Listen here pal,
I just quoted an actual study done by the government showing that it's unlikely suboxone will mess with people's hormones.
So no, it's not JUST ME.

Fentanyl & kratom? You mean two of this shittiest opioids there is? Right next to Suboxone? lol
Unless you were actively using when your T tested low, then it's unlikely it was any of those that did it.
If an opioid messes with your hormones, it doesn't stay messed up even when you're off of them.

Sounds like your hormone levels were already low/lowering on their own. Your hormones quickly bounce back to homeostatis once you stop an opioid.
You said yourself that you were depressed & lacked motivation. That alone can cause some one's hormone levels to drop.

They don't "stay messed up for 6 years" afterwards of ceasing use. Sorry but that's just not how that works. Sounds like you're not actually speaking from a scientific standpoint. You know how many environmental pollutants you're probably exposed to & food on a daily basis that also lowers your hormone levels?

"Everyone's hormones are different" - Yeah, my exact fricking point. While everyone's badgering OP about hormone levels, it's 'more than likely a completely different issue altogether for them. Especially since they're just using Suboxone. And especially since it's been SHOWN THAT Suboxone does not mess with hormone levels to the extent of full agonists, if at all.

Actually the original OP was asking if it was worth it to go get high really, so why everyone started whining about hormone levels is beyond me. But then again there's a lot of people out there who love to blame all of their issues on the god forsaken devil drugs "opioids" in an attempt to paint them as "bad" drugs. Even if it means spreading false information (i.e. - a known and tested drug like buprenorphine altered my hormones for 6 years after use!!)

If this were even true, then you'd still be a minority & it's no reason to tell other people that their hormones are probably low too.
I dealt with all the same issues everyone describes here & had everyone else else tell me to get my T checked too, only to discover it wasn't the issue at all.
It doesn't hurt to get it checked, but it's not always the cause of people's problems any time they're taking an opioid either.

Some people just have actual depression disorders that come back out to the surface on Suboxone, since it's only a partial agonist & isn't going to relieve your depression the way full agonists would. It did for me in the beginning but after years of use it stopped helping as much & makes me tired & lethargic, This leads to symptoms that may mimic what some one with low testosterone would be like (no motivation, etc.) but obviously my T was fine & there are other issues at play.