Suboxone..Pain pills

[DeathIndustrial88]

The only reason I’ve refrained from Kratom is I heard it causes seizures. That scares the f out of me lol.

I've never heard of kratom causing seizures either, but if you're bored with bupe, then kratom isn't even worth it. At least in my experience.
I second the guy who said pod tea. I have yet to try pod tea myself, but I have had really good seed tea many times before & I'd imagine pods would be even better.

I believe tramadol is the only opioid that carries a seizure risk. Technically all opioids are convulsants, so you could have a seizure mixing a opioid with a ton of other drugs, but that's a different story and comes down to personal bodily chemistry. lol

 

[SpiralusSancti]

While bupe really does affect sex hormones less than average opiod I’m not sure that applies to all kinds of hormones and I feel testosterone put aside it still might have pretty big impact.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

While bupe really does affect sex hormones less than average opiod I’m not sure that applies to all kinds of hormones and I feel testosterone put aside it still might have pretty big impact.

Possibly. I'm speaking strictly on testosterone though.
I just had bloodwork done again at the beginning of May and I've been on Suboxone since January 2018.

I originally had my testosterone checked in 2021 cause I had no sex drive or energy at all. And it was normal.
And strangely in the past year or so, my sex drive came back full force. Only thing that changed was that I quit doing meth. I think meth was what was really
killing my sex drive.

I think people often forget just how much other aspects of their lifestyles impact their endocrine systems & body/health in general too.
If some one already has low T and goes on opioids, then yeah they might have a more difficult time with it.
If you're some one who has high testosterone, an opioid might actually balance you out.

Which reminds me, not only was I not just on opioids at the time, but I was also a meth user, 1-2pk a day cigarette smoker, stoner & junk food eater. By everyone's metric here, my testosterone should have been at levels where I urgently needed T replacement therapy.... yet it wasn't. And still isn't. And instead of being "Low T" killing my sex drive, it turned out to be the meth (And depression).

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Possibly. I'm speaking strictly on testosterone though.
I just had bloodwork done again at the beginning of May and I've been on Suboxone since January 2018.

I originally had my testosterone checked in 2021 cause I had no sex drive or energy at all. And it was normal.
And strangely in the past year or so, my sex drive came back full force. Only thing that changed was that I quit doing meth. I think meth was what was really
killing my sex drive.

I think people often forget just how much other aspects of their lifestyles impact their endocrine systems & body/health in general too.
If some one already has low T and goes on opioids, then yeah they might have a more difficult time with it.
If you're some one who has high testosterone, an opioid might actually balance you out.

Which reminds me, not only was I not just on opioids at the time, but I was also a meth user, 1-2pk a day cigarette smoker, stoner & junk food eater. By everyone's metric here, my testosterone should have been at levels where I urgently needed T replacement therapy.... yet it wasn't. And still isn't. And instead of being "Low T" killing my sex drive, it turned out to be the meth (And depression).

I agree lifestyle in general often if not always has more influence on sex drive and even well-being in general than most meds do.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Easiest test to see if you have low T or not...
If you still wake up with morning wood some days... Your testosterone is probably fine. lol

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I agree lifestyle in general often if not always has more influence on sex drive and even well-being in general than most meds do.

For sure. I blamed the suboxone for killing my sex drive & thought it had to be low T too.
When in reality, I think it was my on & off meth binges that were ruining sex for me. Not to mention depressive episodes, losing my mother at the time, etc..
I just became asexual really for awhile. Until I quit the meth, changed up my diet & now I wake up with morning wood all the time & I have a pretty normal sex drive again.

So there are just so many variables at play that could be causing people's issues.

I'm still very doubtful that GeorgeWashington is still having hormone problems 6 years after quitting though. I've never read of any accounts of people's hormones being "permanently" messed up after use like that in any medical literature. I'd say they most likely already have a hormonal imbalance due to genetics or other factors & not their opioid use. And if that's the case, then yeah, opioid use would make their problem worse.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

For sure. I blamed the suboxone for killing my sex drive & thought it had to be low T too.
When in reality, I think it was my on & off meth binges that were ruining sex for me. Not to mention depressive episodes, losing my mother at the time, etc..
I just became asexual really for awhile. Until I quit the meth, changed up my diet & now I wake up with morning wood all the time & I have a pretty normal sex drive again.

So there are just so many variables at play that could be causing people's issues.

I'm still very doubtful that GeorgeWashington is still having hormone problems 6 years after quitting though. I've never read of any accounts of people's hormones being "permanently" messed up after use like that in any medical literature. I'd say they most likely already have a hormonal imbalance due to genetics or other factors & not their opioid use. And if that's the case, then yeah, opioid use would make their problem worse.

Addicts like to simplify things and act as just about any problem is caused by either too much or too little drugs. Like one doctor told me that he got so much patients who connect just about every fucking negative thing or health problem in their life to either opiod WDs or not high enough dose of opiods, well it goes other way too for many.

 

[Northerngyal]

I've never heard of kratom causing seizures either, but if you're bored with bupe, then kratom isn't even worth it. At least in my experience.
I second the guy who said pod tea. I have yet to try pod tea myself, but I have had really good seed tea many times before & I'd imagine pods would be even better.

I believe tramadol is the only opioid that carries a seizure risk. Technically all opioids are convulsants, so you could have a seizure mixing a opioid with a ton of other drugs, but that's a different story and comes down to personal bodily chemistry. lol

If I’m on subs I don’t think I can do the poppy tea thing. If I could I definitely would lol. I remember I used to do tramadol before I was on subs.. good times. My drug of choice was always the Percocets

You seem very knowledgeable when it comes to opioids/opIates My kinda ppl lol

 

[Northerngyal]

I have an appointment with a hormone doctor on Tuesday, I suspect low T because my friend who had it and went on testosterone said that my symptoms are right in line. So I guess I'll see.



Never heard of kratom causing seizures. However, that being said, if you're on suboxone, you won't feel anything at all from kratom, probably. You'll have to stop suboxone and wait for at least a week for it to clear your system enough to be able to feel kratom, in all likelihood. kratom is also a partial agonist, like suboxone, and you may find that it is disappointing, until such a time comes as you manage to be clean from opioids for a solid period of time.

But in any case, I have never heard of seizures from kratom. I have spent a good 8 or 9 years of my life (in total) heavily addicted to kratom, taking up to 100 grams a day, and have never had any health problems from it, other than severe addiction/withdrawals, and have never heard or read about anyone getting seizures. The worst I've read about is that it seems that a small percentage of people get ;pretty bad liver issues from it, but it seems very rare. I have never had even slightly worrisome liver values even during a long-term 100 grams a day habit.

It’s a long story, but there was the lady on fb who I used to follow and she was giving her husband a shit ton of Kratom for his mental health (veteran with depression ect) and he started suffering from seizures. But she was also giving him a lot of other herb concoctions that were a bit iffy. The whole situation was a bit susp tbh.

Yeah, I am on subs.. I ordered some Kratom like someone suggested so I’ll still give it a try and see what happens. It would be interesting to try it when I’m off the subs also to feel the full effect. I’ve heard it feels like an opiate so I’m down.. say no more lol

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

If I’m on subs I don’t think I can do the poppy tea thing. If I could I definitely would lol. I remember I used to do tramadol before I was on subs.. good times. My drug of choice was always the Percocets

You seem very knowledgeable when it comes to opioids/opIates My kinda ppl lol

Tramadol was my main DOC for 10 years before I ever got on subs.
Along with heroin for about 5 of those years. But I always had my mom's tramadol script to fall back on.

I loved tramadol. With low enough tolerance, 400mg had me flying. Much more so than buprenorphine can get me even.
I always had so much energy, productivity, confidence, stamina & depression relief on tramadol (and heroin). I wish buprenorphine offered those same qualities.
Tramadol & bupe is a decent combo though.

But yeah, I've been an opioid user for 16+ years now (if we include my years on bupe), About 25 years on drugs altogether. But I spent a lot of time researchiing here on bluelight & pharmacology became a huge interest of mine. So I've learned a lot over the years through first hand experience & tons of reading. I figure if you're going to be a drug user, you should educate yourself & know how to do it safely.

What originally made me start researching, was I wondered after a few years why I hadn't overdosed yet.
I heard all my life growing up how dangerous heroin & opioids were, yet I seem to benefit from them greatly & never felt in danger.

That's when I started studying the history of opioids, the 3 main opioid receptors (and sub receptors), how they work, etc..
And that's when I realized what most people believe about opioids is just flat out myths or hyperbole.
I learned It's actually quite difficult to OD on a opioid if you have a tolerance. You would have intentionally or accidentally OD.

Now I advocate for their legalization, since they're less toxic than alcohol, yet provide so much relief for people like me.

PS - Depending on how low your sub dose is, you might still be able to feel a bit from pod/seed tea. Probably more so than you would with kratom.
But then again I'm weird & I've always been able to feel to heroin, hydrocodone, tramadol & even good seed tea over my bupe, as long as I'm not on a huge dose at the time. If your sub dose isn't at the ceiling level, that means you have extra receptors open & will feel at least a tingle from full agonists.

 

[Northerngyal]

Tramadol was my main DOC for 10 years before I ever got on subs.
Along with heroin for about 5 of those years. But I always had my mom's tramadol script to fall back on.

I loved tramadol. With low enough tolerance, 400mg had me flying. Much more so than buprenorphine can get me even.
I always had so much energy, productivity, confidence, stamina & depression relief on tramadol (and heroin). I wish buprenorphine offered those same qualities.
Tramadol & bupe is a decent combo though.

But yeah, I've been an opioid user for 16+ years now (if we include my years on bupe), About 25 years on drugs altogether. But I spent a lot of time researchiing here on bluelight & pharmacology became a huge interest of mine. So I've learned a lot over the years through first hand experience & tons of reading. I figure if you're going to be a drug user, you should educate yourself & know how to do it safely.

What originally made me start researching, was I wondered after a few years why I hadn't overdosed yet.
I heard all my life growing up how dangerous heroin & opioids were, yet I seem to benefit from them greatly & never felt in danger.

That's when I started studying the history of opioids, the 3 main opioid receptors (and sub receptors), how they work, etc..
And that's when I realized what most people believe about opioids is just flat out myths or hyperbole.
I learned It's actually quite difficult to OD on a opioid if you have a tolerance. You would have intentionally or accidentally OD.

Now I advocate for their legalization, since they're less toxic than alcohol, yet provide so much relief for people like me.

PS - Depending on how low your sub dose is, you might still be able to feel a bit from pod/seed tea. Probably more so than you would with kratom.
But then again I'm weird & I've always been able to feel to heroin, hydrocodone, tramadol & even good seed tea over my bupe, as long as I'm not on a huge dose at the time. If your sub dose isn't at the ceiling level, that means you have extra receptors open & will feel at least a tingle from full agonists.

Ahh, so you were getting a tramadol script. That makes sense because I always had a hard time finding Tramadol. It would come around here and there like Dilaudid but it wasn’t steady like the Percs were for me. I guess I would have done more had it been more available.

I appreciate your knowledge It’s always good to have someone knowledgeable in our field lol. I absolutely always have benefited from them as well (opioids/opiates). I wish it were more readily and safely available. I hate that the bupe has naloxone. Major bummer.. I never achieve that full body high and burts of energy. I’m on 16 mg a day atm. I’m not sure if that’s considered a high dose? I’ve been trying to taper by myself and not mention it to my dr because I want the extra subs for when I need it.

As for experimenting with other opioids while on the bupe, I’ve tried it once and got pretty sick. In the beginning of my suboxone journey. I was on a super low dose too of 4 mg. I was so bummed out when I realized that I couldn’t mix my favorite pills with the bupe, to say the least.

Yesss, I’m all for legalization. When done safely they can bring so much relief and peace to ppl that would benefit from them. I would much rather be on an opioid regime than MAT

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Ahh, so you were getting a tramadol script. That makes sense because I always had a hard time finding Tramadol. It would come around here and there like Dilaudid but it wasn’t steady like the Percs were for me. I guess I would have done more had it been more available.

I appreciate your knowledge It’s always good to have someone knowledgeable in our field lol. I absolutely always have benefited from them as well (opioids/opiates). I wish it were more readily and safely available. I hate that the bupe has naloxone. Major bummer.. I never achieve that full body high and burts of energy. I’m on 16 mg a day atm. I’m not sure if that’s considered a high dose? I’ve been trying to taper by myself and not mention it to my dr because I want the extra subs for when I need it.

As for experimenting with other opioids while on the bupe, I’ve tried it once and got pretty sick. In the beginning of my suboxone journey. I was on a super low dose too of 4 mg. I was so bummed out when I realized that I couldn’t mix my favorite pills with the bupe, to say the least.

Yesss, I’m all for legalization. When done safely they can bring so much relief and peace to ppl that would benefit from them. I would much rather be on an opioid regime than MAT

Yeah, it was actually my moms.
Me & her moved when I was a 18-19 to a different state & her doctor put her on tramadol for sciatic pain.

They were unscheduled back then too. She use to get 180 a month. And I could some times go into the pharmacy & refill them twice in a month because doctors
and pharmacists were idiots back then & actually believed it was "like another tylenol" since it wasn't scheduled.
But she never used them. And I actually got into them because I didn't have a weed dealer when we moved.

So I raided my moms pills (she let me tho) one day and tried out the tramadol & quickly discovered that it annihilated my depression, gave me more energy at work
and I could have fun for hours listening to the same songs over & over & feeling completely content. And so I started taking them & eventually they ran out one month and I felt sick as a dog. I was still 19 & didn't understand what was happening at the time. Until I finally realized after some reading that I was in withdrawals.

From that point forward, I was hooked. Every month from the age of 19-29 (maybe 30) I went through tramadol withdrawal. Every month I had to beg my mom to call in that refill or go to the doctor to keep them coming. And they kept her on them all those years. Eventually toward like 2015 and beyond, they finally started to acknowledge that tramadol was an opioid (even though European countries knew it was for decades before this) & started cutting her script from 180 to 120 to 90 to 60 and then eventually to only 30 pills a month by the time 2019 rolled around. I lived with my mom til I was 32 by the way due to a lot of mental health issues (and being an addict obviously).

I always see all these articles about people getting settlements & shit for getting hooked on oxycodone, yet nobody talks about how easily accessible tramadol was in the early-mid 2000's. I can't be the only person out there who started off their opioid journey with tramadol. lol It was all doctors were willing to give back then. At least in my area.

My mom preferred me on tramadol & heroin though. She even told me that once. lol Cause she saw how stupid and asshole-ish I could be on shit like alcohol. But when she saw me on opioids, I was always cleaning our house/apartment or talking her head off or getting things done. She knew I benefitted greatly from this class of drugs & I think that's why she continued to fight to get that script every month for me up until the day she passed away.

But yeah, I spent a lot of years on tramadol. I have so many fond memories of long walks I use to take, headphones on, just feeling amazing & content with the life. I haven't felt that feeling in years & years now. Even buprenorphine & hydrocodone can't replicate some of the beautiful times I had on tramadol. Not only is tramadol's metabolite (O-desmethyltramadol) a full agonist, but tramadol is also a TAAR1 agonist, meaning it releases serotonin, similar to ecstasy, but obviously not as strong as ecstasy. lol But the TAAR1 agonism gives tramadol it's own unique feeling. A lot of people think tramadol is also just an SNRI (which it is), but I think it's SNRI qualities are quite weak in comparison to it's opioid effects & other effects. Weak enough to almost be negligible.

I came acoss some tramadol surprisingly last summer. Spent a week on them. They were nice but they lacked a lot of my favorite qualities they use to have. I think being on buprenorphine all these years has done something to my ability to enjoy tramadol fully now. But it's still one of my favorite opioids next to heroin.

16mg of buprenorphine a day is definitely a high dose. Some places in Europe use 0.02-0.04mcg of buprenorphine every few hours for pain. If that helps put into context just how potent buprenorphine truly is. Hell buprenorphine is technically much much stronger than heroin even. But since it's only a partial agonist, it's not going to provide the same amount of pain relief or "high" as a full agonist would. But with that aside, opioid naive people could definitely get pain relief from micrograms of buprenorphine. Bupe starts to give less pain relief though the higher your dose is. Because it eventually accumulates in your body (due to the long half-life) and then you hit the "ceiling effect", where taking anymore bupe won't do anything.

I'm truly hoping some day we see opioids legalized!! So much death, crime, etc.. could be done away with if people could just get their drugs safely & be educated on how to use them safely.

Buprenorphine definitely saved me from a viscious cycle of hell, but I just don't understand why people can't just stick with the opioid of their choosing. I mean I spent a decade and a half taking opioids without any doctor supervision & I did just fine & never once overdosed or anything. lol Adults should have that right. It's ironic & stupid to me that I can legally destroy my life with alcohol, but if I want to better my life with an opioid, I'm a "junkie criminal". Only time I even came close to ODing was when I got a bag of fentanyl for the first time. Thankfully I was smart enough to know that my usual heroin was brown/tan/grey & would have a vinegar smell to it. And this was white powder with no smell at all. So I knew to tread carefully & only take a small bump at first to test it. And thank god I did cause that shit had me nodding harder than any opioid. To the point where I felt like I was gonna fall asleep (and prolly die). And that was just from a small bump, hardly the size of a match head even. Had I taken my usual dose like it was heroin, I probably would have OD'ed. There was almost no euphoria either. Or at least none of the content, peaceful & empathetic feelings that genuine heroin gives. I told my dealer to NEVER give me fentanyl ever again. And he didn't. lol Fuck fentanyl. I feel sorry for the new generation of opioid fiends who will never get to experience the REAL pleasures of heroin. Instead they get this dangerous, clinical feeling crap of a synthetic opioid instead. Yuck. lol

Anyway, I appreciate the conversation! I love talking about drugs, but I think it annoys the hell out of everyone close to me in real life. lol I rambled quite a bit there.
Have a great weekend my friend! Cheers!

 

[Northerngyal]

Wow, thanks for sharing so much and so freely having not knowing me. I appreciate your honesty. I can tell that you have a deep love for Tramadol. Those must have been the days, huh? It almost takes you back to that euphoric high just by talking about it. I get stomach cramps just thinking about the times I had on opiods. All the excitement just sort of comes and hits you at once lol. Real opioid/opiate addicts know what I mean.

Did your mother ever become hooked on the Tramadol and does she still get her script?
I wish it was more easily accessible to those that need it including yourself I so effing miss cleaning the house while high. It made the process so damn enjoyable. It made the music better, the coffee, the conversations and literally everything!!! I was a bit chunkier while I was on Percs because I craved sweets more often. I would indulge on junk food much more then than I do now on bupe lol.

Whew, I’m glad you survived that ordeal you were telling me about! Sounds like that was a close call Yeah, fuck fentanyl!!! I’ve never tried it and have no desire to tbh.

Are you on bupe atm? Well I am on 16 mg but I take less like only 12 mg because I’ve tapered myself down and haven’t informed my dr about it. I like getting the extra subs and saving them for a rainy day or if I can’t get to the pharmacy for my carries ect.

I sometimes dream that I’m on percs again lol. It’s the most wonderful dream that I could ever dream and then I wake up and I’m hella sad that it was just a dream. It’s awful but I’m glad for my recovery. I remember the times where I was unable to get percs or any opioids and it was ultimate agonizing pain and depression. I’m not sure if I would ever want to go back but that lil devil on my shoulder sometimes reminds me how good it felt.

Feel free to message me and we can get further into it, I’m always happy to talk