Bupe Suboxone can ruin your life

[Man67]

Fuckk subs I did heroin just to go to rehab to get prescribed subs then when I couldn’t get a doctor to prescribe them back home I was so sick I just used heroin to get off. I’m back on subs again for blues and since I got these I’ve heard about sublocade. It’s a prior authorization some kinda bs but it seems promising , get like 3shots over a period of time then 6 or 9 months later you no longer have any suboxone in you . Injectable taper

Smart move mate. I didn't have 6-9 months so I did it in 3. It wasn't easy and half a year later my nervous system is still f*cked.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Matthew Perry consumed (in massive quantities): opiates, benzos, coke, etc. He consumed opiates for over 20 years. He was also an alcoholic and a chain smoker.

I mean, I'm going on 25+ years of drug abuse.
16 of those years on opioids, including heroin.
Drank alcohol from the age of 12-29.
Have been a chain smoker since the age of 14 and still am.

I did coke in my teen years, MDMA, I've battled a methamphetamine problem for 25 years.
Once gave myself rhabdomyolysis after 5 days awake on meth & straining my body. My pee turned root beer colored.

I use to drink 2 bottles of cough syrup (DXM), while I drank vodka straight out of the bottle & then I'd smoke meth ontop of both of those.
I've done this at least 15-20 times in the past 8 years. And it's incredibly dangerous.

I even use to do inhalants like dust remover, huff hairspray, paint, acetone, nail polish, etc.. etc..

Yet I had xrays & catscans done on my brain, heart & lungs just a year ago & I'm some how in "perfect" health with absolutely nothing wrong with any of my organs.

How am I even still here & not have any permanent organ or brain damage? Granted I quit drinking about 7 years ago, but I still take opioids, benzos & gabaergics every single day, ontop of cannabis.


So I still have a hard time buying that it was "years of drug use" that would cause random cardiac arrest.
If he had damage to his heart from any drugs, that would have shown up through routine bloodwork & check ups before hand. So he would have known he had a heart problem before this happened. Especially some one with his level & access to healthcare.

Growing up that notion always made me maddest. The notion of soccer mommies (forgive me) wanting tougher drug laws because their kid was too good for the world. So cannabis smokers had to be arrested and lives ruined because of propaganda.

It does not bother me as much but it is still silly. And it is all hypocritical. We are all drug users. Most of the ignorant masses are on some med or other.

I think one of the funniest things I heard that sort of made me feel better was a George Carlin skit. He was talking about those bumper stickers that said "my son is an honor student", or one of those silly stickers we use to see. George Carlin was like fuck that, fuck those people, I have a sticker that says "my son sold drugs to your honor student daughter".

People will believe any negative myths about drugs. It's ridiculous.

Even other drug users believe in stupid shit. lol Can't tell you how many meth users I've run into who would shit on heroin users & act like heroin was some how "more dangerous" than meth. lol It's incredible.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I'm not sure why people downplay the risks related to drug abuse and opioid abuse on a harm reduction website?

I'm not sure why people are pushing misinformation on a harm reduction website?

Specifically speaking, when it comes to opioids, there is absolutely no mechanism by which prolonged mu-receptor agonism is going to lead to a "weakened heart" or any heart related problems.

Sure you can blame cocaine use for it's cardiotoxicity & you're entitled to your own opinion. But lumping opioids into a group of cardiotoxic drugs is just factually not correct.

If people wanna jump to his drug use as the cause, then at least mention the cocaine & not just opioids/various. Because opioids are not going to do that.
But then the question remains.... How much cocaine did he use & when? Because plenty of people use cocaine/crack in their life time & come out of it without any heart problems. If he did damage his heart through rampant cocaine use, then it still should have showed up in routine check ups, which means there must be some evidence from a doctor saying he had pre-existing heart issues, right? If not, then that's pretty weird because heart damage from drugs would show up & be visible to doctors, generally before they cause cardiac arrest.

I'm extremely poor in comparison to MP & even I was able to get all my organs checked out.

Honestly, since nobody even knows for sure what killed him, I think it sucks whenever some one who's used drugs dies & then everyone just dismisses it as "oh he used drugs, so whatever". If his drug use did cause it, it should be able to be shown to be directly correlated, but they haven't said so yet. Instead the media is just postulating that his "yeas of substance abuse" is what lead to it without any actual facts to back that up. And we all know how much credibility the media has.

Maybe drugs did play a role but it certainly wasn't some direct cause from opioids specifically anyway. There actually are a few cardiotoxic opioids but they're generally not used. Like loperamide, propoxyphene & methadone. And they cause long QT syndrome while actively taking them. Supposedly he wasn't on anything anyway. But it's unlikely those 3 opioids would cause cardiac arrest later on down the road once you've stopped them.

Nobody's downplaying "the dangers" of opioids. It's called being realistic though. Drug use isn't always an automatic death sentence, so just because some one dies that had a substance use problem, I think it's incredibly dangerous to allow people to just always assume "it was cause he did drugs" and then carry on with their day. That means drug users who are murdered or found dead under suspicious circumstances aren't going to get the same treatment...because hey they used drugs right! So what else could it have been!? Unless there is a toxicology showing he had drugs in his system or had damage to his heart from them, then his past substance use is no more valuable to why he died than it would be if they investigated what type of cereal he ate every day (assuming he ate cereal... you're aware that our food, water & air all contain hazardous & cardiotoxic chemicals too as well right?)


And I won't even get into all the celebrities. news anchors and athletes who've all had heart problems or dropped dead or had strokes on TV in the past 2.5 years.
Plus people I've known personally who've had adverse reactions to a 'thing' that was rolled out & pushed on people in 2021.

 

[Frog Dreams]

I'm not sure if you're suggesting I'm pushing misinformation?

Please quote where I said opioids weaken the heart?

I DID mention the cocaine and the alcohol and the benzos. Again, I'm not sure if you're talking about me?

His heart literally stopped for 5 minutes during a surgery that was a result of opioid abuse. He went into a coma because of a ruptured colon that was a result of opioid abuse. He had 14 abdominal surgeries that were a result of opioid abuse.

Honestly, since nobody even knows for sure what killed him, I think it sucks whenever some one who's used drugs dies & then everyone just dismisses it as "oh he used drugs, so whatever".

I didn't say that.

He didn't just use drugs, he almost died repeatedly from drug abuse.

I think it sucks that people start pointing to vaccines.

Maybe drugs did play a role but it certainly wasn't some direct cause from opioids specifically anyway.

Again, I didn't say that. It may - however - have been indirectly caused by opioid abuse.

Nobody's downplaying "the dangers" of opioids.

Yes, they are. All over this website. People downplaying the risks of opioids and other drugs. Opioid users are dropping like flies. Most of the people I've known IRL who have suffered overdose deaths have been opioid abusers. There are so many threads where there is seemingly no effort to persuade people to stop using. People make comments about rampant opioid abuse as if it's okay.

so just because some one dies that had a substance use problem

Again, Matthew Perry didn't just have a substance abuse problem. He destroyed his body over decades as a result of drug use. Given his history, it's a pretty safe assumption that his drug use had something to do with his death.

That means drug users who are murdered or found dead under suspicious circumstances aren't going to get the same treatment...because hey they used drugs right!

Give me a break. He wasn't murdered. There were no suspicious circumstances. I'm not extending my comments about Matthew Perry to other people. I'm not saying there shouldn't be an autopsy.

Unless there is a toxicology showing he had drugs in his system or had damage to his heart from them, then his past substance use is no more valuable to why he died than it would be if they investigated what type of cereal he ate every day (assuming he ate cereal... you're aware that our food, water & air all contain hazardous & cardiotoxic chemicals too as well right?)

Denial is a powerful thing, bro.

Cereal?

And I won't even get into all the celebrities. news anchors and athletes who've all had heart problems or dropped dead or had strokes on TV in the past 2.5 years.
Plus people I've known personally who've had adverse reactions to a 'thing' that was rolled out & pushed on people in 2021.

It's possible it had something to do with the vaccines but it is more likely to be a result of the way he treated his body for three decades.

What is the difference between someone suggesting it might have something to do with his coma / previous heart failure / 14 abdominal surgeries / coke abuse / opioid abuse / benzo abuse / alcohol abuse... and someone saying it might have something to do with vaccines?

 

[Frog Dreams]

I mean, I'm going on 25+ years of drug abuse.
16 of those years on opioids, including heroin.
Drank alcohol from the age of 12-29.
Have been a chain smoker since the age of 14 and still am.

I did coke in my teen years, MDMA, I've battled a methamphetamine problem for 25 years.
Once gave myself rhabdomyolysis after 5 days awake on meth & straining my body. My pee turned root beer colored.

I use to drink 2 bottles of cough syrup (DXM), while I drank vodka straight out of the bottle & then I'd smoke meth ontop of both of those.
I've done this at least 15-20 times in the past 8 years. And it's incredibly dangerous.

I even use to do inhalants like dust remover, huff hairspray, paint, acetone, nail polish, etc.. etc..

Yet I had xrays & catscans done on my brain, heart & lungs just a year ago & I'm some how in "perfect" health with absolutely nothing wrong with any of my organs.

I'm going on 25 years too.

I used to drink a bottle of whiskey a day and inject meth into collapsing veins.
I used to inject heroin. I was a methadone addict after that.

I used to chug cough syrup also, combined with all sorts of other drugs including Amanita Muscaria, shrooms, nitrous, etc.

I was also into other inhalants, including amyl nitrate.

All my scans are "perfect" too.
We're fucking lucky.

So I still have a hard time buying that it was "years of drug use" that would cause random cardiac arrest.
If he had damage to his heart from any drugs, that would have shown up through routine bloodwork & check ups before hand. So he would have known he had a heart problem before this happened. Especially some one with his level & access to healthcare.

Here is where we depart, logically.

You are downplaying the (potential) dangers of drugs.

Matthew Perry is not me. He is not you. Some people can chain smoke cigarettes until they are 90 years old and not fuck their lungs.

Furthermore, have you spoken to his doctors? Have you seen his tests? Did he have any heart problems? I don't know.

Did he have shit built up in his arteries? Maybe. I don't know and neither do you.

Tests don't show everything.

It is entirely possible that he died as an indirect result of abusing opioids for decades. You can't tell me it's not possible.

Like I've already said: if an actuary was to determine his life expectancy, that would a much more significant factor (statistically) than the COVID vaccines.

I REALLY don't want to discuss COVID vaccines. I'm just saying, it makes no sense for you to get all butthurt about me saying that maybe it's the result of him fucking his body for decades and then go on and say maybe it's a result of the vaccines. If you don't want people making assumptions, you should follow your own advice and not suggest maybe the vaccines had something to do with it... You should be consistent.

 

[hwbush336]

To cut the long story short. Start Suboxone treatment ONLY if your life is in danger. For all other reasons (tolerance, pain & depression management...) don't do it. It's like getting a mosquito with the nuclear weapon. Way too strong and unpredictable. After a perfect period of 8-9 months side effects started to show?! Literally overnight. Same dose, same brand, same expire date... I'll probably never know why but that's not important anymore. After being between life and death for 3 months l finally managed to tapper down. Four weeks after l'm still weak, depressed and tired. Pain is back as well. Sometimes unbearable but I don't complain. I managed to get through this nightmare alive. Hopefully one day these symptoms will cease and I'll feel normal again? Please think twice before starting a Sub. therapy as plenty of side effects are not listed at all. Intentionally!

I was on subs for years and when I relapsed on fyntinol and got back on subs the first time I started to have SEVERE SUICIDAL DEPRESSION ANXIETY I was scared for my life EVERY day and couldn't put two and two together until I got off subs and on methodone and off ALL depression meds and finally everything stopped but I had some traumatic shit happen in life but nothing I have not dealt with before it was all stemmed from the subs

 

[hwbush336]

Medical doctors and science has has established buperenorpine in the forumulation butrans for chronic pain. It has been used for decades for this purpose before it was used for addicts.

Got any better ideas for ppl living with chronic pain that have tried everything including surgeries and still are disabled…where taking any addictive opioid (bupe) allows them to not commit suicide and maybe even go back to work?

Being opioid dependent and PAWS are no fun but if your chronic pain is serious and debilitating enough dependency is the lesser of two evils.

I don’t see anything worse about withdrawal or PAWS of bupe vs any other powerful opioid if that’s the comparison you’re making.

Most ppl on here would argue it’s a much easier withdrawal than methadone or fentanyl or oxycodone (although I disagree with the majority in this regard). I’m my experience tapering to low doses of all kinds of opioids bupe was one of the harder ones to kick but nothing out of the ordinary

I'm going to tell you right now that FYNTINOL withdrawal is absolutely 100 times worse than SUBOXONE it's when someone has gone through no other withdrawal then SUBOXONE is why they feel it's the worse go do fyntinol for a year a gram a day and jump off and u tell. Me wats worse , I've jumped off both , jumped off 16 to 24 mg of subs and 2 grams of Fetty raw off the bric however raw it was anyway and NOGHT and day difference. I never puked once coming off subs I puked 24 hours straight Fetty withdrawal

 

[xtcgrrrl]

I'm not sure if you're suggesting I'm pushing misinformation?

Please quote where I said opioids weaken the heart?

I DID mention the cocaine and the alcohol and the benzos. Again, I'm not sure if you're talking about me?

His heart literally stopped for 5 minutes during a surgery that was a result of opioid abuse. He went into a coma because of a ruptured colon that was a result of opioid abuse. He had 14 abdominal surgeries that were a result of opioid abuse.



I didn't say that.

He didn't just use drugs, he almost died repeatedly from drug abuse.

I think it sucks that people start pointing to vaccines.



Again, I didn't say that. It may - however - have been indirectly caused by opioid abuse.



Yes, they are. All over this website. People downplaying the risks of opioids and other drugs. Opioid users are dropping like flies. Most of the people I've known IRL who have suffered overdose deaths have been opioid abusers. There are so many threads where there is seemingly no effort to persuade people to stop using. People make comments about rampant opioid abuse as if it's okay.



Again, Matthew Perry didn't just have a substance abuse problem. He destroyed his body over decades as a result of drug use. Given his history, it's a pretty safe assumption that his drug use had something to do with his death.



Give me a break. He wasn't murdered. There were no suspicious circumstances. I'm not extending my comments about Matthew Perry to other people. I'm not saying there shouldn't be an autopsy.



Denial is a powerful thing, bro.

Cereal?



It's possible it had something to do with the vaccines but it is more likely to be a result of the way he treated his body for three decades.

What is the difference between someone suggesting it might have something to do with his coma / previous heart failure / 14 abdominal surgeries / coke abuse / opioid abuse / benzo abuse / alcohol abuse... and someone saying it might have something to do with vaccines?

You are saying that we downplay the negative consequences of drugs on this site. That’s (for the most part) not true. On almost every thread concerning opiates, there’s a bunch of people saying “don’t do it, you’ll regret it.” The thing is, “just say no” doesn’t work. People are still going to do them. So it’s best if drug users read about the drugs and the dangers and get factual information, free of judgment. There are many scientists and drug nerds on this site, and if you truly investigate your substances, that’s where the harm minimization comes in. You learn to do them safely. There’s an inherent amount of risk in just about anything you do; get behind the wheel of a car, some idiot could hit you and cause an accident. Breathe the air in some polluted city, you can damage your lungs (that’s why I have asthma.) Too much sun, and you can get skin cancer. Etc.

But the reason why people come to this site is because if you just Google your drugs, you’re going to get a long list of preachy, negative-sounding information from the articles that Google will present you. And a lot of that information is just plain wrong, even on a site like webmd or the DEA website itself. Erowid and Bluelight are some of the few places where you can get non-biased information.

And you’re allowed to have debates, like the one in this thread, over the potentially cardiotoxic impact of repeated use of opiates over a long period of time that’s what this site is for! If we started being heavy-handed about drug use on this site, no one would want to be here anymore. It would become an echo chamber like Reddit, where if you don’t roundly condemn drug use with every word, you’re effectively shadowbanned. I hope we never go in that direction, here.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Yeah @Frog Dreams, I am suggesting that.

I came in here to say that opioids aren't cardiotoxic or "bad for the heart".
And that's when you commented saying "I can't believe this harm reduction site lets people post misinformation!"...

Which means you must have disagreed with my assertion that opioids aren't cardiotoxic.

What "misinformation" did I post exactly?


Where did I say he was murdered? lol You are literally picking apart my replies sentence by sentence & taking them WAY out of context.
It's almost not even worthy to respond to somebody who's going to take everything I say out of context or twist it someway.

You don't think the food in the united states isn't loaded with cardiotoxic pesticides & cancer causing agents? Now that's some real denial.




Finally, like I said... opioids don't generally cause cardiac arrest at 54 for absolutely no reason. This is not "downplaying the dangers of drugs", it's just an actual fact.
To assert otherwise while also admitting that you don't even know for sure, really is kind of pushing misinformation.

I'm not here saying I know exactly what killed him but I'm also not jumping to "oh well he did drugs" either. The dude was literally alive & well & even playing pickle ball hours before it happened. Unlikely that some opioids or drugs he took years or even decades ago just suddenly killed him out of nowhere. He did have part of his stomach removed due to severe constipation from opioids but so what? Some people have their entire stomachs & colons removed & live to be 80 +

You admit that it's possible he could have died from myriad of things but you're still gonna assert it was his drug use & then claim anyone who disagrees with that as "pushiing misinformation"?


BL exists to help people use safely & spread education & bring people together. It's not here to judge people or "downplay" anything.
Opioids are literally safer on the body long term than drinking alcohol every day. And that's just a fact.
I've been on this site since like 2008/2009. I've learned a lot by coming here & now have the ability to educate others on drugs, from both personally lived experience & many hours studying pharmacology & being fascinated with it.

So if you wanna assert that he died due to drugs, that's your right, but you're just helping stigmatize opioids further without any real correlations between them & MP's' death. There's already plenty of misinformation out there about opioids (i.e. - just touching fentanyl will cause you to OD!!. etc..)

 

[Hexenstahl]

On almost every thread concerning opiates, there’s a bunch of people saying “don’t do it, you’ll regret it.” The thing is, “just say no” doesn’t work

The funny thing is that this somehow never works I have noticed. I have realized after all those years that people who wanna do drugs will end up doing it no matter who warns them and how. That's why I cut this whole "here is a list of reasons why you shouldn't do it" and instead immediately jump to giving safer use aka harm reduction advice like the "safer injecting" thread that I created some while ago. I think some people are just destined for a life of drugs and you can't really change that. I dunno if you believe in destiny though...

because if you just Google your drugs, you’re going to get a long list of preachy, negative-sounding information

What I hate the most is people who never even experienced drug addiction, trying to tell me what it means to be addicted. Especially those uppity doctors on YouTube getting interviewed by ignorant podcasters. I'm sorry but you will NEVER know what it truly means to have the NEED for dope. You'll NEVER know that feeling of existential dread when you're trying to score on time but for whatever reason fail and are about to enter the utter hellscape of wd. I suffered nervous breakdowns from that shit. If drug addiction wasn't so stigmatized we'd have former addict doctors coming out and THEY should be the ones leading the discussion and doing the explanations. I can't take those book smart harvard doctors serious who think they know what addiction is because they memorized some checklist from their textbook lol...

And you’re allowed to have debates, like the one in this thread, over the potentially cardiotoxic impact of repeated use of opiates over a long period of time that’s what this site is for! If we started being heavy-handed about drug use on this site, no one would want to be here anymore. It would become an echo chamber like Reddit, where if you don’t roundly condemn drug use with every word, you’re effectively shadowbanned. I hope we never go in that direction, here.

As long as wonderful moderators like you exist here on this forum, it will stay a free speech zone. Thank you for everything. I really appreciate all the effort you and the other mods, including the admins put into this forum.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

You are saying that we downplay the negative consequences of drugs on this site. That’s (for the most part) not true. On almost every thread concerning opiates, there’s a bunch of people saying “don’t do it, you’ll regret it.” The thing is, “just say no” doesn’t work. People are still going to do them. So it’s best if drug users read about the drugs and the dangers and get factual information, free of judgment. There are many scientists and drug nerds on this site, and if you truly investigate your substances, that’s where the harm minimization comes in. You learn to do them safely. There’s an inherent amount of risk in just about anything you do; get behind the wheel of a car, some idiot could hit you and cause an accident. Breathe the air in some polluted city, you can damage your lungs (that’s why I have asthma.) Too much sun, and you can get skin cancer. Etc.

But the reason why people come to this site is because if you just Google your drugs, you’re going to get a long list of preachy, negative-sounding information from the articles that Google will present you. And a lot of that information is just plain wrong, even on a site like webmd or the DEA website itself. Erowid and Bluelight are some of the few places where you can get non-biased information.

And you’re allowed to have debates, like the one in this thread, over the potentially cardiotoxic impact of repeated use of opiates over a long period of time that’s what this site is for! If we started being heavy-handed about drug use on this site, no one would want to be here anymore. It would become an echo chamber like Reddit, where if you don’t roundly condemn drug use with every word, you’re effectively shadowbanned. I hope we never go in that direction, here.

Wanted to thank you too for all you do here!
We love you xtcgrrrl!!! ^_^
BL has probably saved my life many times.

It was always my own decision to do stupid shit, but at least I knew how to do it the safest way possible.

And like Hexenstahl said, free speech is critical for allowing people to find real facts.
I've watched google go from having all kinds of pages about opioid use being used back in the day for psychiatry, tests & studies showing how long term opioid use didn't impact the persons body/organs or how people who were able to have constant supply were able to go back to work & function just like everybody else.

Or how most "opioid overdoses" are actually poly-substance overdoses.

Now when you look up anything opioid related on google, it's nothing but "get help!" ads & misinformation.

 

[Frog Dreams]

@DeathIndustrial88

I didn't introduce the word misinformation to this discussion. You are misquoting me.

I said this:

I'm not sure why people downplay the risks related to drug abuse and opioid abuse on a harm reduction website?

And I didn't direct that comment specifically towards you, either.

Which means you must have disagreed with my assertion that opioids aren't cardiotoxic.

Nonsense. I didn't say that. You're putting words in my mouth.

Finally, like I said... opioids don't generally cause cardiac arrest at 54 for absolutely no reason.

They found him underwater. They haven't concluded cardiac arrest. Maybe he had a heart attack. Maybe he just fell asleep.

You admit that it's possible he could have died from myriad of things but you're still gonna assert it was his drug use & then claim anyone who disagrees with that as "pushiing misinformation"?

Nope. Again, I never said anyone was pushing misinformation.

Drugs are the most likely factor to contribute to his death given his history. More likely than the COVID-19 vaccines.

Opioids are literally safer on the body long term than drinking alcohol every day. And that's just a fact.

They are also more statistically likely to prematurely kill you. Just look at the number of BLers who have died from opioid abuse.

tests & studies showing how long term opioid use didn't impact the persons body/organs

Except bursting your colon?

how people who were able to have constant supply were able to go back to work & function just like everybody else.

Or how most "opioid overdoses" are actually poly-substance overdoses.

Now when you look up anything opioid related on google, it's nothing but "get help!" ads & misinformation.

People should get help.

You are downplaying the dangers.

...

I've got to go to work. Will respond properly (to other posts) later.

 

[Hexenstahl]

I've watched google go from having all kinds of pages about opioid use being used back in the day for psychiatry, tests & studies showing how long term opioid use didn't impact the persons body/organs or how people who were able to have constant supply were able to go back to work & function just like everybody else.

Or how most "opioid overdoses" are actually poly-substance overdoses.

Now when you look up anything opioid related on google, it's nothing but "get help!" ads & misinformation.

THIS!!!
This should be highlighted because it absolutely hits the nail right on the head!!!
Here is an old book about opioids (it was banned for a while) explaining how this wonderful substance class had been successfully used in psychiatry for various illnesses from depression to schizophrenia.

Opioids in mental illness : theories, clinical observations, and treatment possibilities : Verebey, Karl, 1938- : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Results of a conference held by the New York Academy of Sciences, Oct. 28-30, 1981

archive.org

You won't be able to find a single publisher willing to publish such a book nowadays. Opioids have been villified and are the devil now apparently.
I think you, DI88, will be especially interested in this book. I have actually found a physical copy on ebay that is selling for only $20 right now in case you are interested -> Opioids In Mental Illness: Theories, Clinical Observations And Treatment Possibilities

 

[Hexenstahl]

Except bursting your colon?

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

THIS!!!
This should be highlighted because it absolutely hits the nail right on the head!!!
Here is an old book about opioids (it was banned for a while) explaining how this wonderful substance class had been successfully used in psychiatry for various illnesses from depression to schizophrenia.

Opioids in mental illness : theories, clinical observations, and treatment possibilities : Verebey, Karl, 1938- : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Results of a conference held by the New York Academy of Sciences, Oct. 28-30, 1981

archive.org

You won't be able to find a single publisher willing to publish such a book nowadays. Opioids have been villified and are the devil now apparently.
I think you, DI88, will be especially interested in this book. I have actually found a physical copy on ebay that is selling for only $20 right now in case you are interested -> Opioids In Mental Illness: Theories, Clinical Observations And Treatment Possibilities

Oh wow, this looks like a fantastic read!
I'm definitely gonna have to bookmark that!

This is going to be forbidden knowledge one day! Seriously! If the zealots finally get their way.
There are people in the US who literally see drug users & dealers as murderers, thieves, morally corrupt, etc.. And have no problem destroying people's lives for the mere act of trying to make themselves feel better.

This information use to be all over google & I could pull it up with a few clicks whenever I was debating somebody but now it's becoming increasingly harder to find.
It goes back even further than that too, opium has been used for many ailments for millennia.



EDIT : I'm a dumbass!!! lol There are more pages to read if I move the little player thing! Sweet! I know what I'm gonna be doing tonight! Thanks Hexenztahl!
EDIT 2 : Shit, it's still limited preview, my bad. lol


@Frog Dreams

Opioids definitely affect the gastrointestinal tract. But this can be a good or bad thing depending on the person. And constipation can be treated with all kinds of laxatives & dietary changes. Oh no, I might have to skip McDonalds if I'm gonna take this opioid.... Lol Big deal. Probably a good thing not to eat like trash if I'm gonna take something. Everything comes with it's own risks & rewards & opioids are unfairly targeted & demonized, especially in the US. It's completely BS that they don't have a multitude of values for all kinds of things that ail people. It doesn't make them inherently more dangerous.





Sorry if I think it's important that people know they're being lied to & that people should have bodily autonomy when it comes to treating whatever ails them, whether it be physical or mental. And especially more so if that drug isn't at the detriment of their health like say having a cocaine/meth/alcohol habit would be.


Look how long lies about cannabis were spread...
"Cannabis fries your brain"
"Cannabis makes you stupid"
"Cannabis Makes you insane"
"Cannabis makes your wife sleep with your black slave".

It's all BS.

None of these attitudes towards drugs existed either up until recently, like 80 years ago or so. It wasn't until the narcotics act & Nixon that suddenly "drugs are bad mmkay". And everyone was taught not to question that. And that's exactly why so many undeducated people end up overdosing or accidentally hurting themselves.
Or run around spouting falsehoods about drugs or opioids specifically.

 

[Man67]

I was on subs for years and when I relapsed on fyntinol and got back on subs the first time I started to have SEVERE SUICIDAL DEPRESSION ANXIETY I was scared for my life EVERY day and couldn't put two and two together until I got off subs and on methodone and off ALL depression meds and finally everything stopped but I had some traumatic shit happen in life but nothing I have not dealt with before it was all stemmed from the subs

Same thing happened to me. I am still recovering, 6 months after l quit Subs. When you read the pamflet everything is nice and fine. 90% of side effects are not listed at all.

 

[Hexenstahl]

There are people in the US who literally see drug users & dealers as murderers, thieves, morally corrupt, etc.. And have no problem destroying people's lives for the mere act of trying to make themselves feel better.

Yes, absolutely disgusting people. Hypocrites who think they are better human beings because they are not dependent on opioid medication.

It goes back even further than that too, opium has been used for many ailments for millennia.

Precisely! Back in the day Opium was used very successfully against melancholia which was the old term for depression. It was seen as a kind of emotional pain, just as legitimate as physical pain. Both groups of people had the right to use it. Opium was used for all sorts of reasons: recreationally, medicinally, ritualistically in a religious setting (eleusinian mystery cult used an opium concoction during an initiation ritual along with psychedelics to have visions), and so on and so forth. People can decide for themselves for what to use opioids.

Shit, it's still limited preview, my bad. lol

That's why I put the ebay link in my post. The book costs only $20. For such an old book that is out of print and so incredibly rare to find these days with information that you can't even find on the internet anymore, the price is really cheap. I have actually bought a copy myself a while ago from a library in Michigan that had one in a very good condition lying there for decades collecting dust. They sold me that book for dirt cheap because nobody ever borrowed that book, nobody wanted it, and since I was the only one who asked if I can have it they sold it to me. This book is one of those rare gems that I won't ever sell. It contains non-pc info that google will immediately censor lol. I'm sure the author would have schooled all those ignorant millenial redditors with his extensive knowledge.

 

[Whitey69]

Same thing happened to me. I am still recovering, 6 months after l quit Subs. When you read the pamflet everything is nice and fine. 90% of side effects are not listed at all.

How did you quit subs, taper or sublocade? I’m having pretty bad mental effects to and I almost wish I went with methadone. I use tele health though I doubt they prescribe it, they’ve been trying to get me sublocade for a month but it’s a whole beaurocratic nightmare from what I can see . Maybe I’ll just do a intense taper and be done with it. My moms funding my subs, I tried to get her to give me cash and let me use some low dose oxy to get off the blues but she wasn’t for it, probably won’t like me trying to use those to get off subs either lol .

 

[vlzinspace]

Same thing happened to me. I am still recovering, 6 months after l quit Subs. When you read the pamflet everything is nice and fine. 90% of side effects are not listed at all.

Good to see you are 6 months in. Last we spoke you were 3 months in. Remember, it will pass. For me, I woke up and randomly felt half as bad, and the next day it was gone. Relief unrivaled. 9 months.

Keep going man.

 

[Frog Dreams]

free speech is critical for allowing people to find real facts

I'm not anti free speech. Quite the opposite.

this wonderful substance class

I don't think it's wonderful when used as a recreational drug. It has ruined so many lives, including Matthew Perry's. There are so many people on this website that have struggled for years upon years with opioid addiction.

I put heroin up there with meth, not in terms of neurotoxicity obviously but in terms of the overall harm it does to people's lives.

In terms of overdose rates, opioids are responsible for a massive percent of total ODs.

The world would be better off without recreational opioid use.

You guys have made comparisons to alcohol.

What would you rather your sons/daughters/brothers/sisters/friends dabble with: alcohol or heroin?

I hope to God that my daughter never touches an opiate recreationally, whereas I'm sure I will have a glass of wine with her at some point when she's older.

It is downright irresponsible IMO to talk about opioids in such a positive way.

Look how long lies about cannabis were spread...
"Cannabis fries your brain"
"Cannabis makes you stupid"
"Cannabis Makes you insane"
"Cannabis makes your wife sleep with your black slave".

It's all BS.

That has nothing to do with what I'm saying about opioid abuse.

I'm not spreading lies / misinformation.

Cannabis is relatively harmless; opioids are not.

I don't think anyone in this thread has even suggested that opioids are cardiotoxic.

Everything comes with it's own risks & rewards & opioids are unfairly targeted & demonized, especially in the US.

It seems to me that the risks massively outweigh the rewards. Just look at OD rates in the US.

Beyond that, opioid users are (generally) fucking miserable. Being addicted to heroin is a nightmare. I've been there. I know. Every single person I know who has used H and managed to get off it swear they will never have it again. That's because of their experience, not because of conspiratorial lies perpetuated by mass media.

Yes, absolutely disgusting people.

Heroin dealers have blood on their hands.

I find it perplexing how pro-drug people criticize big pharma yet defend H dealers.

the few places where you can get non-biased information

There is obviously a bias here.

The funny thing is that this somehow never works I have noticed. I have realized after all those years that people who wanna do drugs will end up doing it no matter who warns them and how. That's why I cut this whole "here is a list of reasons why you shouldn't do it" and instead immediately jump to giving safer use aka harm reduction advice like the "safer injecting" thread that I created some while ago. I think some people are just destined for a life of drugs and you can't really change that. I dunno if you believe in destiny though...

Let's not discourage heroin use at all. Let's not discourage people from using fentanyl. Let's not discourage people from using crack... because discouragement has zero effect?

There is no way to prove that. Seems like you just want to believe it.

You are saying that we downplay the negative consequences of drugs on this site. That’s (for the most part) not true.

Didn't say it was true all the time. I do, however, often read threads where there is zero effort to suggest that people stop using or reduce their usage.

We can minimize harm by advising how to safely use drugs AND discourage abuse that is likely to cause the user harm. Not saying the latter doesn't happen at all, it just strikes me that there are a lot of missed opportunities... and a lot of staff members have biases about certain drugs because they are in denial about their own usage history.

And you’re allowed to have debates, like the one in this thread, over the potentially cardiotoxic impact of repeated use of opiates over a long period of time

I don't think anyone on this thread has argued that opiates are cardiotoxic?