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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v3; 2010 - 2022

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Gamebreaker3233 said:
No one replied to posts...

Just started Suboxone this week, Im at 4 mg a day. My question is will Suboxone give me the physical enery and motivation I had pre-opiate addiction? I use to work out daily and do well in school but since becoming an opiate addict my physical energy is no more, I've let myself go, lost nearly 30 lbs of muscle and weigh 145 lbs at 6"2, and I don't have the motivation in life that I once had. My grades and life have truely suffered because of my addiction, I'm hoping Suboxone will get me back on track. Can I expect Suboxone to help me get the energy and motivation that I had pre-addiction?

If anyone has experience with working out and Suboxone post how you think it effects you. Thanks.
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yes it should give you energy
 
Guys i have a question, over christmas i was late for my dose, i didnt get there in time and as a result went 4 days without any suboxone. My daily dose is 20mg. I was expecting some pretty full on withdrawal symptoms as i have been on done in the past. What happened-NOTHING!! No withdrawal symptoms at all, i did not feel any ill effects whatsoever, and i did not use any drugs over this period. Can anyone explain this to me??
 
bwanajzj - great post, I agree completely with all of that.

ondrugz said:
anybody know can i take it like 6 hours after the tabs?
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You have to wait and usually, virtually ALWAYS, 6 hours is not anywhere near enough. I would wait 10-12 hours at least, although the more the better.

Your body should let you know when you're ready, if you want some kind of tangible guideline Google COWS (the Clinical Opiate Withdrawal Scale) to get some kinda idea of what you should be experiencing.

ALSO - I find the best way to do this is the second you're absolutely convinced you need to start taking Bupe (Subutex in your case), take an incredibly small (like 0.1mg) piece of Sub and see if your body reacts negatively to it. If it does, back off and wait... if not, keep upping your dosage until you start feeling better. IMO doing it that way is a much easier transition and you won't take too high a dosage, which can also be shitty.

BTW - IMO, Lortab is one of the absolute weakest, shittiest generic versions of Hydrocodone/APAP... are you sure you even need Subutex? If you've been taking a lot of it for a long time, I'm sure you will... but if you're not that deep into it you might be better off just going cold turkey.
 
f'n a-hole said:
bwanajzj - great post, I agree completely with all of that.



You have to wait and usually, virtually ALWAYS, 6 hours is not anywhere near enough. I would wait 10-12 hours at least, although the more the better.

Your body should let you know when you're ready, if you want some kind of tangible guideline Google COWS (the Clinical Opiate Withdrawal Scale) to get some kinda idea of what you should be experiencing.

ALSO - I find the best way to do this is the second you're absolutely convinced you need to start taking Bupe (Subutex in your case), take an incredibly small (like 0.1mg) piece of Sub and see if your body reacts negatively to it. If it does, back off and wait... if not, keep upping your dosage until you start feeling better. IMO doing it that way is a much easier transition and you won't take too high a dosage, which can also be shitty.

BTW - IMO, Lortab is one of the absolute weakest, shittiest generic versions of Hydrocodone/APAP... are you sure you even need Subutex? If you've been taking a lot of it for a long time, I'm sure you will... but if you're not that deep into it you might be better off just going cold turkey.
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Lortab is just 10mg hydrocodone and acetimophen. It's stronger than regular vicodins that come in 5mg or 7.5mg....how can it be weaker? That doesn't make sense...
 
astroboy007 said:
Guys i have a question, over christmas i was late for my dose, i didnt get there in time and as a result went 4 days without any suboxone. My daily dose is 20mg. I was expecting some pretty full on withdrawal symptoms as i have been on done in the past. What happened-NOTHING!! No withdrawal symptoms at all, i did not feel any ill effects whatsoever, and i did not use any drugs over this period. Can anyone explain this to me??
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you have a really, REALLY high dose. you should try dropping to like 1-2mg per day if and when you start feeling shitty since you probably just have a TON of it built up in your system and bupe is extremely plasma bound which accounts for the long half life. I take mine every 36-48 hours. 96 hours is feasible if you are on such a large dose, but you could just drop down to 1-2mg/day which will save you tons of money and make your scripts last forever, and be easier to finally jump off of.

I'm sure CH will chime in with some more information, but that's the jist of it.

EDIT: And I think what was trying to be said is that unless you use lortab to the max of 4g of Tylenol/ day you STILL aren't going to have a very bad habit and could easily taper down in 1-2 days on the lortab and go cold turkey. If you haven't already taken it, bupe will be a step UP from lortabs most likely, so I would use a dose of .3mg oral at most at first, and even that might not be necessary.

I.E. the most lortab you could take per day based on APAP toxicity is 6. that's only 60mg of hydrocodone which is (not to minimize your problems) a tiny habit. You could easily taper off.
 
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10mg hydro can be extremely potent for some opiate naive people. my daughter took one for back condition and was knocked out all day. She threw the rest out and her dr gave tyl#3. I wish she would have called ole dad to dispose of them for her.... But being on subs for a couple of yrs... they wouldn't have done much or nothing for me... i'd probably need to water extract at least 10-15 to get anything
 
suessmayr said:
Opiates are completely non-toxic, much less harmful psychologically and physiologically than marijuana and most other drugs; ANY doctor will tell you this. The harm that follows upon opiate use attaches to the lifestyle that comes with opiates (poor diet, no exercise, etc etc), and the lifestyle follows strictly as a result of western laws. Opiates in themselves are not harmful at all, apart from their propensity to generate dependence. Pot, on the other hand, does damage your brain like all psychedelics.
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you have some facts wrong.
Toxicity means that a substance can kill you. Opiates can easily kill you (they reach a TOXIC level in your body and you die). You CANNOT die from smoking weed, you can only get really, really stoned. there is no point at which you get SO stoned you are dead, you are only more stoned. As most of us who have lost friends and loved ones (or ourselves) to opiate use know this is not the case with ANY opiate, as you can easily OD from chasing a "higher" high.

Cannabis hits receptors all over your brain, including CB subtypes 1 and 2, and some moderate agonism at the Mu receptors (since naloxone, a pure MU antagonist) reverses, at least partially, the effects of THC. It is not traditionally considered addictive, and this should be a good indicator of where it falls in commonly abused drugs/ medicine.
NSFW:
Drug_danger_and_dependence.png
 
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bwanajzj said:
Careful... these claims come from an ideal dreamworld, where product is pure and users are able to maintain at low to moderate doses, thus not having to deal with the negative lifestyle that follows a dreary drug habit in this naive law-burdened world, where users and abusers alike, are forced to compensate a healthy lifestyle for a less healthy one, due to the circumstances that are so often associated with the acquisition of illicit substance.

Opiates can be quite harmful, even when an otherwise healthy lifestyle is maintained. This is due to the profound effect that opiates have on a wide range of mental and bodily functions. Even if you are very social, eat well, and exercise all day long while maintaining an opiate habit, your circulation and breathing is still going to be somewhat shit when you nod off at night - and this will in the long run have a negative effect on your muscle and organ development, etc. On the contrary, there are cases, where people have smoked insane amounts of ganja daily, and lived to a very old age without a scratch. When you think about it, whether you live a really healthy lifestyle or not, the negative health effects are dependant upon the individuals mental/physical condition and lifestyle, ROA, purity of product, dosage, and tolerance. Even the healthiest individual will experience negative effects, at a high enough dose over a sufficient period of time. If product is not pure, contaminants will enter the body and might cause damage; whether it be smoked, injected, eaten, snorted, or stuffed up your ass; regular exposure to any foreign substance will have noticeable effects. The more you do, the more pronounced the effects; it is essentially impossible to completely compensate for the undesired effects through management of a healthy lifestyle. We must accept the consequences, and expect them, in order to limit damage. Only when you acknowledge the fact that opiates and other drugs will have some sort of negative effect, can you begin to consider damage control. So do not think that they are harmless, as you claim any doctor will tell you. The doctor makes these claims within a limited set of conditions.

My point here is that the notion of harmless opiates, is one of those things that gets all junkies convinced that they are doing the right thing, and that nobody has the right to take their DOC away from them; the laws are wrong, this world is fucked up and I'm not, without proof and first-hand experience first I won't believe what the doctor tells me, and yadiyadiya... I also used to think that I could handle opiates, and completely reduce damage by following a strict set of lifestyle guidelines. Likewise, I smoked a lot of ganja daily for years, and really enjoyed doing so. Amongst other things, I wanted to prove to myself and others, that it was possible to attain a university degree and stay healthy, even though I was a total pothead and psychonaut who could use various substances without feeling negative effects. I wanted to prove everyone wrong who didn't have faith in the idea, I wanted to prove the laws wrong too. And I wanted to prove that it was possible to be a responsible heroin user. Eventually, I ended up proving myself wrong, and realized that there was no reason for me to try and prove this sort of thing to anyone, before I accepted the consequences, and learned to deal with them in a responsible and reliable manner.

Even though damage from opiate use might be minimal on a strictly physiological level, how has it affected you on an emotional level? Your family relations? Do you still have the same loving friends, that you had before you tried to prove to yourself that you could live smacked out without hurting yourself or anyone else? The emotional turmoil that comes as a result of prolonged drug use, both in terms of opiates, cannabinoids, and a wide range of other psychoactive substances, also has a remarkable effect on mental and physical health. So before you convince yourself that you can get away with opiate use without any harm done, think twice, and think about all the factors that are in play - just because the substance might have passed through you with no toxic metabolites, don't think that you don't collect baggage and burdens along the way that are directly related to the use of either opiates or cannabinoids. And don't trust all doctors, in the end, they are just people like you and me.

EDIT: People, please don't take this post personally. I just wanted to express some thoughts based on my own experience, in terms of justifying an opiate or cannabis habit with health effects in mind.
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It seems to me that your post depends for the most part upon 1) presuming certain impurities in opiates and 2) emphasising their propensity to cause other-than-physiological-type harm. 1) is really besides the point given that when I said "opiates are non toxic" I was clearly referring to the active ingredients themselves; and 2) only argues my initial point that the harm caused by opiates does not attend their physical properties, viz., arises only indirectly and for reasons which are practical and legal, rather than directly for reasons which are chemical and inherent.

Also, I know dozens of potheads and although they won't, say, lose their house or marriage to the drug, they're all, every single one of them to the last, mentally fuzzy if not completely cognitively senile. There's a reason that opiate use is so prevalent amongst surgeons and academics, for example - it's not toxic like benzos or liable to impede your ability to think, like psychedelics.

I can anticipate in advance that any objections to this will come from teaheads that I've offended, but I'm only responding to a previous claim that opiates are physiologically damaging, which is thoroughly misleading.


S
 
^Opiates effect hormones... some opiates do this to a large degree (heroin, morphine), while others don't do it so much (buprenorphine)... Effects on hormones will certainly affect your physiology.

Also, nodding on opiates causes respiratory depression and lowered oxygen levels. This can easily be damaging to the brain, and is pretty inherent to opiates themselves...
 
Yes, naturally opiates like all drugs have a capacity to harm, and if they harm, the harm will in all likeliness be greater than most other drugs (for example with respiratory depression) but this harm can be avoided and usually is, whereas one cannot with any amount of prudence avoid the harm to brain cells that follows upon smoking a joint, for example. I suppose that it is mainly this, cognitive harm, that I have in mind. In this respect at least they stand uniquely apart from psychedelics, stimulants, dissociatives and so forth, the latter two literally eating your brain.

S
 
Take what 6 hours after what tabs?

Bupe 6 hours after pretty much any dose of any opiate will precipitate withdrawal. Any opiate 6 hours after bupe will not have any effect except to make you tired.

S
 
suessmayr said:
Take what 6 hours after what tabs?

Bupe 6 hours after pretty much any dose of any opiate will precipitate withdrawal. Any opiate 6 hours after bupe will not have any effect except to make you tired.

S
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Not if you are already on or have been on a buprenorphine maintenance therapy regularly.

I suppose your statement could presuppose no prior buprenorphine dependency, but...:)

For instance, if I take ~.66mg buprenorphine daily, and either skip, or take my normal dose, then dose a full-agonist such as oxycodone or diamorphine, then, pointlessly, dose buprenorphine again 6 hours later, will not get thrown into precipitated withdrawal.
 
trying to stay clean, but cant keep this up

Hey all, just went to detox last week and Ive been clean since thank god but I have a problem. I have used subs in the past and they were great, however this time they arent working as well. I have been on them for a week and i have the dose at 16mg a day and I am still experiencing mild withdrawals and bad cravings. I precipitated my wd the day i went to detox and used a very small amount of h to get about 10 mins relief. I then went to the detox and they made me wait anohter 24 hrs until i was puking and in hardcore wd before the subutex. I took it and it only helped a little. Since then I have been in mild wds and I dnt get why, i know how i should feel on the subs and i dont. I am worried ill relapse, any comments? could it have something to do with me precipitating my wd and it takes a week or two to wear off even with subs? any help would be great.
 
Janja said:
Not if you are already on or have been on a buprenorphine maintenance therapy regularly.

I suppose your statement could presuppose no prior buprenorphine dependency, but...:)

For instance, if I take ~.66mg buprenorphine daily, and either skip, or take my normal dose, then dose a full-agonist such as oxycodone or diamorphine, then, pointlessly, dose buprenorphine again 6 hours later, will not get thrown into precipitated withdrawal.
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There are two schools of thought on that issue. I, for one, have spoken with people on BMT who precipitated withdrawal after waiting more than 6hrs to redose.

To the poster above - it sounds like you're still precipitating WD? Although I can't imagine how? Talk to your doctor. It sounds like you're being sincere. Tell him what you told us. Maybe methadone is more appropriate; the consensus around here is that subs don't get any better after 16mg, that is if they even get better > 4mg.

S
 
its unfortunate but the more you go back and forth with bupe the less effective it becomes......

how many times have you gone back and forth? and in what time frame........

i doubt its PW but maybe your just not being held enough.....done' is sounding like a good option.
 
Janja said:
Not if you are already on or have been on a buprenorphine maintenance therapy regularly.

I suppose your statement could presuppose no prior buprenorphine dependency, but...:)

For instance, if I take ~.66mg buprenorphine daily, and either skip, or take my normal dose, then dose a full-agonist such as oxycodone or diamorphine, then, pointlessly, dose buprenorphine again 6 hours later, will not get thrown into precipitated withdrawal.
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Same here. I can dabble with full ag. opiates and hop back on bupe as soon as it wears off. Likewise, I can do full ag opiates about 4-5 hours after dosing with bupe and still have pretty decent effects. I'm taking a really low dose of bupe though.

I know that it is definitely abusing subs from their intended use, but I never took them to abstain anyways.
 
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