Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

[ugly_pickle]

I take (2) 8/2mg Suboxone every morning....Doctors orders. Just thought I would share with everyone what my dose is. It takes forever for the pills to disolve...but once they do..i hold the spit underneath my tounge for about 10 min. and then i swallow it. At first I hated the taste but now i find that the taste is actually good..cause i know when i taste it that in about 20 min...i will be feeling great. It usually knocks me out and since i take it in the morning i just go right back to bed and sleep about 2 hours...and throughout the day it gives me a energy boost to get through the day..The only thing i hate about it is the freaking Sweating....grrrrrr

 

[maximumstrength]

snorting subs worth it?

Im sure this has been covered but wouldnt snorting it be useless because of how little of the active ingrediant is in such a big pill?

 

[StaffWriter]

That's actually incorrect. Although it is a large pill to snort, if snorted, you increase the bioavailability by at least 20% or more. Because of its size, it would be more productive to snort smaller doses instead of an entire 8mg pill. Also, make sure you don't catch a drain and swallow the active ingredients. By doing that, you're actually making the suboxone less effective, with a BA of around 10%.

 

[Dankycodone]

^ Yep. Snorting tiny lines work great. Snorting them works really good when you are tapring below 1mg because of the increased bio and it is easier to snort a small amount of powder. By snorting I can make an 8mg last a week. But sublingually that is only like 4 doses. If you do the sublingually alcohol method for me it is the same bio as snorting. I prefer sublingually overall because it lasts a lot longer and is more convinent for me.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Im sure this has been covered but wouldnt snorting it be useless because of how little of the active ingrediant is in such a big pill?

Whether or not something is "worth it" is subjective...so I'll answer with my own thoughts on this matter.

No, it's not worth it. I wouldn't actually know since I haven't ever tried it. I wouldn't try it because I don't like snorting anything (the only drug that has a clear nasal advantage is heroin).

Plus, you could have easily posted this in the Suboxone Mega Thread v4.0, so I merged it in here.

 

[InfamouzJ23]

And you IV subuTEX?

 

[InfamouzJ23]

Sorry, CAN you IV Subutex (without the naloxone)(the white football shaped shmills)

 

[Captain.Heroin]

You can IV Suboxone and/or Subutex.

The naloxone has nothing to do with it - it is essentially inert due to the fact that buprenorphine out-competes naloxone for the mu-opioid receptor.

The idea that you can't IV Suboxone is nothing more than a lie.

There are countries with epidemics of people who shoot Suboxone - many people do it.

 

[cire113]

^^^

in several european countries Buprenorphine has over taken HEROIN as the drug of choice for many opiate addicts due to price and availability

 

[Dankycodone]

^ Very true although in these countries subutex is atleast four times more expensive then heroin. So it does not have a lot to do with the price.

 

[twice]

I switched from methadone to suboxone a month ago, after having spent about five years slowly tapering to 10mg. Just in case anyone's interested, I waited about 50 hrs and the transition was essentially painless. They started me off at 6 mg of suboxone (which knocked me right on my ass), but after the first day I spent one week at 4mg, one week at 2mg, and one week at 1.5mg. Always sublingual, and always dosing once in the morning. At the beginning of this week, though, my doctor suggested going to 2mg every other day instead of further tapering my daily dosage. I tried it, got uncomfortably high on the first day and surprisingly sick on the second--much worse than the skipped methadone dose. I caved in by 3pm and took 1mg, which is where I'm holding now. I'm getting some RLS at night, and I wake up feeling pretty awful, but for the most part I'm stable.

I'd originally planned to be completely off before classes start up again on the 28th, which gives me about a week between taking my last dose and needing to be able to function. My main question is: should I even try? Or to be more specific, how is kicking 1mg after a month going to compare with kicking, say, .25 mg after 2 or 3 months? Is there any benefit to getting off quickly?

Also, does my experience attempting the alternate-day thing say anything about how fast I metabolize the stuff? And if so, what would that mean for the withdrawal? As I understand it, the recommendation for this dosing schedule is based on studies like this one that say most addicts prefer it to daily dosing. What was completely unsustainable for me is apparently favored by 96% of BMT patients.

One last question: will imodium help me at all right now, or should I save it for the proper wds?

Okay, well, I took 4mg loperamide before bed last night, along with 375 mg naproxen and 50 mg diphenhydramine, and had a surprisingly easy time sleeping/waking up. I'd tried doxylamine the night before, but it seemed to hurt more than it helped. I don't know how much the imodium helped in general, but my stomach was fine when I woke up, so it looks like the suboxone isn't blocking it.. at least not at 1mg.

If anyone has any insight into my other questions, I'd really appreciate it. I'm going to go ahead with the withdrawal this week.. I'll try posting again in a few days if I come across any notable data points to add to this thread.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Okay, well, I took 4mg loperamide before bed last night, along with 375 mg naproxen and 50 mg diphenhydramine, and had a surprisingly easy time sleeping/waking up. I'd tried doxylamine the night before, but it seemed to hurt more than it helped. I don't know how much the imodium helped in general, but my stomach was fine when I woke up, so it looks like the suboxone isn't blocking it.. at least not at 1mg.

If anyone has any insight into my other questions, I'd really appreciate it. I'm going to go ahead with the withdrawal this week.. I'll try posting again in a few days if I come across any notable data points to add to this thread.

Sorry I missed your initial question. I have no loperamide experience so I can't help there.

However, I'm glad that diphenhydramine hcl and loperamide and Suboxone are helping you.

Let me review your other post real quick and see if I can point anything else out for you.

From what I can see your main question is - how it'll feel to come off 1mg versus a smaller dose over longer periods of time. There seem to be different schools of thought on this one.

Some people say dropping off of 1mg after short use of Suboxone is a lot easier than drawing out a taper.

But, other people say taking many months to taper down to < 1mg is a lot easier than dropping off of 1mg after a short while of use.

I'm inclined to believe it varies for individuals. The longer you stay on a high dose, (don't worry - what I mean is higher than where you're at now - like 6mg/day for a long time) the harder it will be to quit. However, I have found that as long as you keep consistently tapering downwards as you feel comfortable, quitting should be easy. "Should" is the operative word, some people still find it exceedingly difficult.

I find that for myself, tapering slowly over a long time is the best way for me to quit. That's what I've stuck to - I find coming off of a large dose to be absolutely horrid and I can't do it (though some can). I definitely am going to keep tapering for a long time until I feel comfortable to drop off all together.

I hope this gave you some idea as to an answer for your question you had. Feel free to ask more questions in this thread and I'll be around to answer them.

Best of luck with quitting.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

You want to wait several days after your last dose of methadone, and you want to be in withdrawal from the morphine...before dosing buprenorphine.

It sounds like you're ready to call it quits, and Suboxone is great for that.

Just make sure you're into moderate/full-on withdrawal first - and then take Suboxone.

Does that help, do you have any more questions?

 

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

Could I get more specific answers on how long you should wait after dosing heroin, as an addict, to use suboxone?

I've been in precipitated withdrawals more than once from doing this, and it was absolute hell, even if it only lasted shortly.

The problem is that I know withdrawal should definitely occur at 24 hours from last dose, but there have been times where it's been 24 hours +, and usually when I've done a shitload of good dope 24 hours ago, and I'm not sick - I have extremely strong cravings, but no cold sweats or goosebumps or 'coldness'.

Is strong cravings enough of a withdrawal symptom? Is 24 hours good, or should it be when you feel withdrawal? I know withdrawal is best, but will 24 hours always be good? Does withdrawal mean fullblown withdrawal, just stronger cravings, or somewhere in between?

Thanks, and I'd really appreciate input from people who actually have taken suboxone too early before.

 

[Dankycodone]

^ 24 hours is the the least you should wait. I would say wait until your nose starts running let your w/d start a little bit then dose to be safe.

 

[tread]

suboxone hell.

im new to this whole bluelight thing so i hope this posts...
i need help. ive been using suboxone for over a year now and its really starting to screw with me. im discustingly moody. i snap at my g/f every other minute. and i dont feel the sense of progression in my recovery i had hoped for in the beginning. i am generally unhappy. i saw my doctor today and approached him with the idea of switching to Sututex. i told him i believed the Naloxone in sub was messing with my natural flow of dopamine. he co mpletely shut it down and exclaimed that switching a patient from sub to subutex was against the regiment of suboxone treatment plans in WA state and he could lose his liscence. this bummed me out.
what can make this better? could i find a dr. in washington (seattle area) that would prescribe me subutex? i hear tons of stories of ppl feeling "weird" while on sub and then switching to subutex and feeling normal again.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

-> Suboxone Mega Thread

i need help. ive been using suboxone for over a year now and its really starting to screw with me. im discustingly moody. i snap at my g/f every other minute. and i dont feel the sense of progression in my recovery i had hoped for in the beginning. i am generally unhappy. i saw my doctor today and approached him with the idea of switching to Sututex. i told him i believed the Naloxone in sub was messing with my natural flow of dopamine. he co mpletely shut it down and exclaimed that switching a patient from sub to subutex was against the regiment of suboxone treatment plans in WA state and he could lose his liscence. this bummed me out.

There's a few reasons this may be:

1) you are sensitive to thebaine derivatives and buprenorphine is not right for you

however, if you once did not feel this way from it, #2 is more likely...

2) your tolerance has dropped and your dose is too high - you need to taper downward.

though if this is what you're doing and you are at a rather low dose (i.e. < 1mg) then...

3) your dose may need to be raised.

I feel that it is more commonly #2 when people complain of the symptoms you're describing: irritability, moodiness, "snapping" at people - these are all symptoms of buprenorphine antagonizing itself at the mu-opioid receptor.

If your dose is 8mg/day or 16mg/day, it is more than likely that you need to start tapering down.

To be honest with you, naloxone is not effecting your dopamine at all: the naloxone in Suboxone is essentially inert. If you're having an allergic reaction to an inactive ingredient (like povidone K30) then it is possible Subutex might be better for you, but this is more than likely not true (you didn't mention anything for me to believe it was) - it is more than likely you are taking too high of a dose.

Though, it is not against treatment protocol to switch from Suboxone to Subutex - plenty of people do it all the time. Plenty of Suboxone dotors are ignorant twats though - don't get bummed your doctor won't switch you, just look for a different one who might even charge less.

what can make this better? could i find a dr. in washington (seattle area) that would prescribe me subutex? i hear tons of stories of ppl feeling "weird" while on sub and then switching to subutex and feeling normal again.

Suboxone doesn't make you feel "weird", at least, if it does so would Subutex.

It's mostly a placebo and the nasty taste associated with Suboxone as to why people think Subutex is more desirable.

 

[yoyolove88]

What's your current dose? That would probably help us a lot with what advice to give you.

You say you've been on suboxone for a year, that's quite a while. For me I think the only reason I'v managed to stick with sub and stay positive is because I have been on a tapering plan (not set up by my doc) since I started taking it. It's been almost 4 months now and today was my last day dosing, I'm down to .2-.4mg every other day. If I were you I'd start considering beginning the process to taper off. The first few times I attempted to get on sub and relapsed I didn't have a taper plan in mind, this time I did and I ended up making a lot of progress.

Not only will this get you on a lower dose (like CH was saying higher doses can cause irritability) but it will also give you a positive direction to head towards. Remember that the goal with sub is to use it to help you become non opiate dependent, you don't want to become stagnant and not be heading towards the right direction. That alone can cause a lot of anger, depression, and general moodieness. I wish you the best of luck man, the best advice I can give is to write up a tapering plan that sounds good to you and do your best to stick to it.

Like they were saying switching to subutex most likely won't make any difference, especially if these symptoms are new and not something you've been experiencing since you first started your sub maintenance.

Also, have you started taking any other meds with your sub recently?

 

[Eight0Eight]

After a 3 day heroin relapse, I'm clean again.

Weirdly, it was easier kicking smack, then it was subutex.

I'm never getting on that stuff again.

 

[i.am.mookie]

i would consider myself to have an above average understand of drugs, the body and mind, and the affects of drugs on the body and mind. i have used everything you can think of and always, always, always reserach anything i do in advance before doing so.

my addiciton has taken me down the road of opiates (def my DOC). from percs, to roxis, to OCS, to dope. i went on SMP (suboxone mataince prog) about 7 months ago. i was on the sub for a month and went back to diesel. even since then i would be on the dope for a while (3months straight) and then on the sub for a few days, then back on the diesel, and back and forth...as im sure this is a familar story to most.

i just recently moved to Louisiana from NJ and have been without dope for 7 days. for those 7days ive been on the suboxone. the first day i took a half (4mg) which got me stable for the most part. later in the nite i took another quarter (roughly 2mg). since then ive taken only a quarter, once a day.

my question is, and please if anyone can give a personal expierecne or advice it would be greatly appreciated, if i was to stop taking the suboxone now, after only taking a quarter (2mg) for 6-7 days straight, how would my widthdrawl be. im thinking that after a pretty good dope habit that even if i stopped the subs now i would still be sick just from not having the dope, let alone the suboxone.

i have been researching opiod receptors and heroin and bupes affect on them...but i still am not sure exactly how i would feel since its only been a week.

ANY THOUGHTS OR ADVICE IS WELCOME

Thanks everyone.