Stopping the internal dialogue

[nothinginside]

i turn this dialog off when i go into hyperfocus...

my being is strange.. it's kind of an extreme of certain values of a human being.

one value, is socialization, communication.

one value, is thought... observation and understanding.

the problem with me.. is i've always been so easy to detach from my environment.. naturally add, probably due to earlier problems with hearing. I had problems with speech.. certain things were hard. the only problem, however, was the letter s.

I can remember .. maybe it's just me creating a memory.. of my life when i was around 2 or 3 of 4 or 5 or 6.. no idea. I remember hearing people talk. I remember that I couldn't hear well. I can see how not hearing well could make me not discipher the 'ssssss' sound out of s... so it was more of a whistle.. a lispe of sorts.

anyways. to get on with it. I feel like because of my ailment as a child, I might have become more internal, not being able to keep up with the external world... It would bore me, because it would never be to the point, which is the only way i know how to understand things.

only when things were drawn out.. could i see how they connected.


so i would observe... learn.. By 6th grade I had my own sci-fi universe.. many of them.. that i would fall into by the time school started, sometimes letting up when we had science.



jump forward a little.......
i feel as though being cut off from the world has allowed me to understand it more.. i was almost more mature because for about 10 years of my 21 years, i've been in and out of surgeries and doctors offices, had a mastoidectomy to remove the spongy part of the mastoid bone and cavity of the ear. Two of my ear bones were removed due to infection, my canal reconstructed, and my diseased ear drum replaced with a flap of muscle from the mastoid area.

Internal dialog was all i had at this time. That and my videogames.

I've had various surgeries to implant tubes... which were because of all of my infections

... basically.. i've had a lot of shit that's shaped me/scarred me.. as everyone has..

now i have tmj.. which debilitates speech and causes pain in areas related to the ear, teeth, neck, lymphatic systems....

for a year now the lymph nodes on the left side of my body have been inflammed.. due to an imbalance.

all caused by tmj.. all caused by something...

all interrelated at least.. always had problems with the head (physically).. always caused a lot of trauma on me.



and now at age 21.. i have perfect hemispheric balance.. i have this because i had to have this.. i wouldn't have had this had i had a greater connection to the world.. yet all i could do was observe.. and now that's about all i do..

I have a tendency to jump back and fourth on issues but i always say it can go further, because it does. It's like my two hemispheres are in constant arguement/agreement. every test i've every taken having to deal with personality or hemispherical balance says that i have perfect balance. normally within 2% of perfect symmetry. (i don't believe these numbers are accurate.. only on a scale)...

when the two hemispheres are full cooperation, that is when my peak levels are (duh).. and around these times i have been unbeatable in any video game i play hahaha.. nm.. that's just halo. that's a strange game... you ever pay attention to the workings behind the coordination of such a game? excellent multihemispherical excercise

anyways..

i'm done rambling.. basically i believe a human being has to have a little bit of both things.....

the internal dialog normally slows as one gets older anyways.. you tend to fall more into an encoded mesh that is "you".

But there are higher planes of existance that you.

that can be encompassed.. only if you just let go

but that's just our multileveled reality.. there really is no right or wrong.

everything is relative.

TMJ

 

[Belisarius]

Skeptic's corner: I seriously doubt you can really do this. The very act of thinking involves internal dialogue. Nor can you divorce yourself completely from the mindset created by your upbringing, though you can certainly to a degree.

 

[SoHiAllTheTime]

I am pretty extreme sometimes with my internal dialogue. I literally debate with myself at times trying to prove myself right one way or the other depending on the issue. I have ALWAYS been a very alone person, not lonely, alone. Ever since i was little kid i liked playing all by myself instead of with other kids. I tell people all the time i am my best friend and i keep myself pretty good company. lol

It can get to the point where i talk to myself inside of my head but will play and opposite role of what i really think just for the sake of having a conversation with someone other than myself, even though it still is myself! lol I know i am sick in the head...

Also i will pratice conversations that i may have with people...Like if i am meeting someone new and i will have a conversatin with them in my head beforehand...I will ask them the questions i will be asking them when we are together and then will answer myelf on their behalf in many different ways. This way when we do talk i will be prepared for anything and maybe be able to have a witty comment or something cool to say that i wouldnt have thought of or said if i hadnt gone over it already in my head.

 

[Void]

Skeptic's corner: I seriously doubt you can really do this. The very act of thinking involves internal dialogue. Nor can you divorce yourself completely from the mindset created by your upbringing, though you can certainly to a degree.

Thinking is created in the conscious mind, usually with reflective mind and subconscious mind playing some role. It is a fundemental part of consciousness, and getting rid of the internal dialogue does not get rid of your consciousness. You wont go into a coma. In a way the internal dialogue is ego, or at least it might be. So at least try it, you may learn something new about yourself. It really does work and make things clearer. You know the sayings how people put some things down to what their heart tells them, what their head tells then, etc. I feel that getting rid of internal dialogue gets you closer to your true self, at least that has been my own personal experience.

 

[Drugpert]

You're all over-thinking this too much.

Ask yourself the question: Does a new born child think in words, or in any way that it can even notice? The answer is no, of course. A new-born has no exposure to anything, so its thought process does not exist, because it does not have a medium of expressing itself. The only thing that exists is a in-born reaction to everything. When they're hungry, they cry, because they can feel the uneasiness in their stomachs. When they're hurt, they cry because of the physical pain.

Internal dialogue is a product of living amongst a culture founded upon verbal communication. It is the most used medium to express ANYTHING. You see words and you hear voices everywhere you go. You are constantly surrounded by language. So its only natural that your thought process will consist mainly of language, and visuals, of course, because we are all exposed to visuals.

A good example of my point are musicians. Especially ones that have played music for a long time. Now, as one myself, before I started playing any music, I could not formulate songs in my head, and I could not have my thought process consisting of ONLY a song. Now, after playing music for quite some time, and getting into the creative process myself, I am now able to think in music, without any words. I have merely found a new way for my thought process to happen. Now, if we were never to talk, and only to play music as communication, than we would probably think only in music (and probably visuals).

Take an example of a blind person to back up this point. A person blind from birth cannot think in pictures, because he has never experienced visuals. However, a person who is blind but isn't blind from birth, can think in pictures (and also dream in pictures) because they have experienced it. The answer is really simple.

So, to block out that internal dialogue, all you would need to do is focus yourself towards a different medium of expression. Artistic creationism will focus your thought more towards imagery and musical creativity will focus it more towards sound, tone and rhythm. Now, to turn off your internal dialogue of speech in your head, you would have to disconnect yourself from speaking. Why do you think its so common that in monestaries, the monks take a vow of silence?

Hell, there are a million examples to back this up. The more you do math, your methods of expressing caculations in your mind get significantly better. Just think, you talk alot everyday, and you hear people talk alot, and you read alot everyday, so why wouldn't you think in words? You'd have to detach yourself from the outside world quite a bit to limit that internal dialogue, either that, or pretty much shut off the part of your brain that concerns linguistics.

So you know what? If you think in words all the time, maybe even too much. BIG DEAL. If you want to think differently, open yourself up to new methods of expression. Just be open.

 

[Drugpert]

So at least try it, you may learn something new about yourself. It really does work and make things clearer. You know the sayings how people put some things down to what their heart tells them, what their head tells then, etc. I feel that getting rid of internal dialogue gets you closer to your true self, at least that has been my own personal experience.

Thinking without words does indeed bring about some new interesting methods of being. For one, it brings a person more to a reactive level, confronting each situation of the present moment (because if the only method of thinking you had was words, and you take that away, you'll be left with pure things like intuition, feelings, instincts, physical urges and the like). This can either serve as a good thing, or a horrible thing. Because for some people, they need a logical means of thinking (and words is about the most effective way of thinking logically), they need to assess things in order to make the correct decision. However, others are more intuitive, and have great instincts which usually point them in the right direction anyways. A person with terrible instincts, and no means of a logical thought process will, of course, be doomed to making horrible decisions. You just have to try and find out what kind of person you are. And even if you aren't highly intuitive, and sick of thinking in words, you may even want to take that risk to ditch a logical thought process and try to intune yourself to intuition. Then again, these are just my personal thoughts.

 

[Void]

I am not saying to get rid of logic or anything, just try to be without internal dialogue for a short period of time. Its a good and insightful experience. It doesnt get rid of the thinking process, just silences your mind for a while so you can achieve greater awareness.

 

[Drugpert]

Well, words are a means of logical expression. Practically our only one. So if you get rid of words, you get rid of the ability to understand and express logic to yourself consciously. The only way to live logically without words, would be to have logic ingrained into your subconscious, something not many people have. Especially when its concerning life, words are the ultimate medium towards analyzing, and intergrating a situation consciously. For example, I could not express a logical idea to you without using words, and the same goes in your conscious mind. Words are a human's means of expressing logic (except in mathematics, although it often relies on words as well).

 

[Void]

Ok I didnt say get rid of all physical words and your voice.

Look, there are different levels and types of thought, ideas, and internal dialoge. Turning off internal dialogue for a short period of time expands your awarness and calms your mind, I know that as a fact coz I experienced it, whats more, it isnt pernament. Just try it and find out, cause you seem to be catagorising everything that goes on in your consciousness as internal dialogue. Its not like that.

Whats more calming your mind has other benefits, like making you less attached to internal dialogue and also pruning it back a bit so you aint talking to your self for hours or constantly going through the same internal dialogue patterns over and over again. It's not healthy holding such an extreme attachment to your internal dialogue, or having it drain your focus from what is going on around you.

 

[nvr2old]

Hmm, a baby has no thought process? I am really confused about this. I mean think of it this way. The baby even inside the mother's womb will feel vibrations, and who knows even hears us singing or talking. I know when I was pregnant I would put soft music on...and even rocking music for the baby's enjoyment.So really how do we know for sure what goes on in their dear precious minds. All I gotta say are children are Amazing!
And about thoughts in my mind. I find I get very confused sometimes when I don't focus on one thing at a time. I mean if I try to consume my mind with too much information at once...then it's harder for me to consentrate on accomplishing things. Meditation helps me, and music is also very comforting.
Peace to all

 

[GrOwThSpUrT]

I can stop, and have been able to for years and years, my thoughts at will, I can sit with my eyes closed and look into the black without a thought. I think it`s kinda interesting, I tried it a few times, and it suddenly worked, it`s damn hard to do for more than a few minutes though, the thoughts just slowly come back, and I start my internal voice without even noticing it.

I am interested in meditation, not as a spiritual thing, but as a way to clear out all thoughts for an extended period of time, I usually start by concentrating on my breath, which is pretty hard to do, because concentrating on something brings thoughts. But when I feel like I can close my eyes and clear my head, I close my eyes, and thoughts will start to diminish, untill I am looking into the darkness without a thought. I have fallen asleep when i tried this late at night in my bed a few times, I just don`t notice anything but blackness, so I don`t even think that I`m getting tired, and next thing I know I wake up and it`s either the middle of the night or somewhere next morning(my sleeping pattern is so irregular, it`s just frustating, I am also, or more like was an insomniac, now I don`t stay up the entire night, but I wake up frequently at night and it takes an hour or so to fall back asleep, causing me to wake up exhausted).

I`m not sure if my view on the world has changed at all by this, but I have noticed that I can relax a lot better when my mind is cleared. I have also had moments where I am in the bus, usually this happens to me when I`m stoned, and I don`t think consciously, I just stare into space and my thoughts will run freely, I like this, because I snap back at the first interesting thought, and continue to think about that in a conscious way(am I explaining this correctly, because it sounds logical to me, but someone else might not have a clue what I`m talking about...).

What I`m trying to say is that I can stop my internal voice at will, or stop concentrating entirely and let my thoughts come at will, which is cool, because the weirdest things pop up in my head, things I would normally not even think about.

I think being stoned is something that helps me to think more or less(like I can turn my thoughtprocess up and down with the touch of a button, although sometimes the system seems to go haywire ) But it is almost always at will.

The best thing to me is still focussing on my breath, closing my eyes, let my concentration go down, untill I have stopped thinking completely. Sometimes it takes a few tries, like I focus on breathing, and I close my eyes, staring into the darkness, a thought pops up, and I just go back to focussing on breathing untill the darkness is all that remains.

I can completely understand why people believe meditation can help you sort out some of your problems, when you`re relaxed you just have a more rational thoughtprocess, when I`m frustrated about something and I look back on it when I`m relaxed, I usually don`t know why I got so frustrated in the first place.

thanks for listening to me ramble on, I just had all these thoughts when I was studying for my tests on monday, and had to place them somewhere so they would not distract me so much.

 

[Drugpert]

Ok I didnt say get rid of all physical words and your voice.

Look, there are different levels and types of thought, ideas, and internal dialoge. Turning off internal dialogue for a short period of time expands your awarness and calms your mind, I know that as a fact coz I experienced it, whats more, it isnt pernament. Just try it and find out, cause you seem to be catagorising everything that goes on in your consciousness as internal dialogue. Its not like that.

Whats more calming your mind has other benefits, like making you less attached to internal dialogue and also pruning it back a bit so you aint talking to your self for hours or constantly going through the same internal dialogue patterns over and over again. It's not healthy holding such an extreme attachment to your internal dialogue, or having it drain your focus from what is going on around you.

Glad you cleared that up. Seperation of internal dialogue is possible for moments at a time, but living in a society based aroung logic and language, it is impossible to consistently live like that.

There are more methods of coping with too much internal dialogue other than focusing in on clearing your mind though. Learning music and formulating songs in your mind is a way to do it, doing mathematics is a way to do it, and there are a million different other ways. Pretty much keeping yourself busy with an activity (playing a song, fixing a car, cleaning, etc) will clear your mind of annoying internal dialogue if you just involve yourself completely with what you're doing. Clearing your head of everything can be seen the same way; when you're doing nothing, and you completely involve yourself in that, you will think nothing. This 'clear mind' state you stress so much is nothing more than being involved with the act of nothingness.

 

[Drugpert]

Hmm, a baby has no thought process? I am really confused about this. I mean think of it this way. The baby even inside the mother's womb will feel vibrations, and who knows even hears us singing or talking. I know when I was pregnant I would put soft music on...and even rocking music for the baby's enjoyment.So really how do we know for sure what goes on in their dear precious minds. All I gotta say are children are Amazing!
And about thoughts in my mind. I find I get very confused sometimes when I don't focus on one thing at a time. I mean if I try to consume my mind with too much information at once...then it's harder for me to consentrate on accomplishing things. Meditation helps me, and music is also very comforting.
Peace to all

Well, let me clear myself up a little on that comment. When I say 'baby' I mean the time when a human has the potential to consciously contemplate things, but does not. A baby has the experience of being a fetus, so it is aware of a small number of experiences, therefore allowing it to think a little bit (it would be able to recognize sounds, vibrations and music it heard in the fetus, but practically nothing else). However, a fetus just starting to develop a mind to intergrate experience, will not have that thought process, just merely an inborn physiological reaction to everything. We don't know exactly what's going on in the mind of a child, but we do know, logically speaking, that there is very little going on.

 

[Void]

There are two types of medition. One to silence your mind and stop internal dialogue, the other to disattach yourself from internal dialogue so it flows without having any effect on you, and you just sit with your eyes closed and watch it go by. Though going around in the world with your eyes open and no internal dialogue is also beneficial.


Ok practically every meditive and spiritual tradition has stopping internal dialogue included in one form or another. It is important. Internal dialogue has nothing to do with logic or the thought process. At least that is my expirience. In our culture it is hard to do, cause the internal dialogue is related to escapism, obsessions, and addictions. Those are some of the most common themes of our lives in this culture. I do feel that the thought process still occurs without internal dialogue, in a clear and still mind, and is not related to silencing your mind.

 

[swayne]

what does your internal dialougue sound like? Is it your own voice? I know what internal dialogue is, but I can't exactly explain how it sounds.

I would bet that you can turn off your internal dialogue, you dont have to think in words. I recall reading somewhere that Albert Einstein would have lucid visual thoughts instead of thinking in words. And if you are born deaf dumb and blind, you obviously can't think in words because you wouldn't know any. I would think that you would just have feelings, equivalent to what you think of with words, minus the words.

 

[GrOwThSpUrT]

I saw a program the other day on people that had mastered certain things(like math, one person could calculate 11^99 and 99^11 degree without thinking for more than a minute, he would visualize the numbers and the answers in his head) With these people the part of the brain we all use to visualize memories was used by their skills in math etc. so they could visualize the problem and deal with it. I thought it was pretty interesting, he himself said that he didn`t really --think-- about the mathproblem, but visualized like on a calculator.

 

[Drugpert]

There are two types of medition. One to silence your mind and stop internal dialogue, the other to disattach yourself from internal dialogue so it flows without having any effect on you, and you just sit with your eyes closed and watch it go by. Though going around in the world with your eyes open and no internal dialogue is also beneficial.


Ok practically every meditive and spiritual tradition has stopping internal dialogue included in one form or another. It is important. Internal dialogue has nothing to do with logic or the thought process. At least that is my expirience. In our culture it is hard to do, cause the internal dialogue is related to escapism, obsessions, and addictions. Those are some of the most common themes of our lives in this culture. I do feel that the thought process still occurs without internal dialogue, in a clear and still mind, and is not related to silencing your mind.

Alright, we're talking about the same thing here. Stopping that internal dialogue when you are sitting there is merely the complete involvement with the act of doing nothing. It's like when you're playing sports. The best athletes don't consciously think out everything their doing, their mind is practically clear, and they just constantly react to the changing situation. When you are meditating, you are just reacting to the situation around you, which is nothing. If nothing is changing around you, then you react to it by having nothing change in your mind.. things remain in a constant flow of thought, or your mind is clear.. just like the scenario you're in.

You're taking this too objective as well. Not everyone is like you. Just because for you that internal dialogue obsesses on escapism and addictions, for other people its how they confront their biggest issues, and make themselves grow as a person. Not everyone in the world is fit for a clear mind, some prefer it the other way. This internal dialogue isn't some evil of society, its just a different way of viewing and explaning things to yourself. But if I can think of one method to prefer thinking in, it would be in words, so that if I ever needed to explain myself to anyone else (which happens constantly when interacting with other people) I would already have practiced the explanation to myself, allowing for better communication between people.

But, I'm still not convinced that all logical procedures in the mind can take place without words.. especially if you were to take philosophical viewpoint on a situation. Philosophy is pretty much the act of breaking down ideas in a proper conjunction with definitions of words. Especially when it comes to proving another verbal idea wrong, because then you can address the idea from two perspectives: ideologically, and verbally. Sure, you can think differently when it comes to math, any physical logical progressions, and so forth, but those are different situations.

GrOwThSpUrT - What you're talking about, is exactly what I'm talking about. That man is so incredibly good at math because he is able to completely immerse himself with mathematics. Mathematics don't use a verbal medium of expression, math works best through a series of visualizations and logical progressions. Math works on the level of allowing a person to see connections between things, and the progression that comes from it. Its the same if you're playing pool, it doesn't work out if you're thinking to yourself "Okay.. I have to cut the ball right about there, and then the white ball will bounce off of it.. hit the left, and then the far edges, and place itself infront of the 3 ball".. it works best if you visualize the logical physical progression that the balls are going to take, including how the friction would work, the spins would work, and so forth.

The point that I'm trying to make here, is that there is a time and a place for every different kind of thought process. If you go around, with a clear mind all the time, its gonna give you a disadvantage in certain aspects of your life, just as if you were to go around talking to yourself in your head all your life. Variety is key, and mastering different aspects of thought is what life is all about. Every different situation in life presents a different thought process, and thats why assessing your experience is essential to personal development.

 

[Void]

Alright, we're talking about the same thing here. Stopping that internal dialogue when you are sitting there is merely the complete involvement with the act of doing nothing... When you are meditating, you are just reacting to the situation around you, which is nothing. If nothing is changing around you, then you react to it by having nothing change in your mind..

Ok great, well, I'd like to give my own ideas about some points here but overall the most important thing is about getting personal experience with a bit of research. You cannot really discuss your way into understanding an experience, you need to live it.

Meditation and spiritual experiences cannot really be catagorised and placed into certain boxes, as leasure, work, and other activities can be. They are about peering within you and understanding you, not just about silencing your mind for a few hours. Its active involvement. As you progress, you become aware of the fundemental espects of the self and develop your fundemental internal characteristics and awarness. You then take that with you with everything you do, and everywhere you go.

So its not about being in a non-changing environment and experiencing a non-changing mind. The most simplistic way of saying it is that as you silence your mind and control your ego, your able to control your reactions to certain things. You are also able to lift the limitations you place on your perception. So, an enlightened being watching the world end would feel non-attachment, even though its an environment with extreme change, and would not be prone to running around in maddness. In a less extreme situation, say your a rascist, by taking responsibility for that you can look into your past and see where it comes from, and you can also see how your ego cycles through the patterns of a rascist. You can then break that pattern.

I am not sure if I am explaining this correctly, but basically there is sometimes a difference between how the world is and how you need the world to be. Or what you build up the world to be in your mind. Your need provails and it effects how you percieve things. By silencing your mind and going out into the world, and being aware, you can pick up on things you have never stopped to notice before. As you develop your internal awarness your one of the external world expands too, though that can be said about many things, like learning new skills.

Originally posted by Drugpert
You're taking this too objective as well. Not everyone is like you. Just because for you that internal dialogue obsesses on escapism and addictions, for other people its how they confront their biggest issues, and make themselves grow as a person. Not everyone in the world is fit for a clear mind, some prefer it the other way. This internal dialogue isn't some evil of society, its just a different way of viewing and explaning things to yourself. But if I can think of one method to prefer thinking in, it would be in words... But, I'm still not convinced that all logical procedures in the mind can take place without words.. especially if you were to take philosophical viewpoint on a situation. Philosophy is pretty much the act of breaking down ideas in a proper conjunction with definitions of words. Especially when it comes to proving another verbal idea wrong, because then you can address the idea from two perspectives: ideologically, and verbally.

People think in different methods, and its good you notice yours to be words. This thread is not about what each individual percieves in their internal disalogue, its about the fundemental structure of internal dialogue and the role that it plays within us all. The structure of the internal mind and consciousness is mapped out in many spiritual traditions, and ways to develop it and control it have also been researched. Those actions are what meditation and spiritual progress is about.

Someone with no internal dialogue, who goes through life with a silence mind, does still talk. He/she still has thoughts, ideas, and is able to explain themselves. Their view, awarness and state of being is just different, and you cannot understand the additional depth that comes from this all until you live it.

 

[Molybdenum]

I think many people (any psychologists out there want to do a study and find some numbers?) who don't take the time to train their mind seem to have an internal dialogue going on. I used to have an absolutely dominating one, and I've pretty much gotten rid of it permanently. That doesn't mean I don't think in words when I want to work through a problem or self-analyze situations in my life, for example. It's more that there's no little guy in my head who simultaneously is and isn't me who I (and who's that? another character?) seem to be having a running conversation with. From the perspective of having dropped it it's kind of like being addicted to masturbation. You are stimulating yourself in highly reinforcing ways because the voice(s) are talking to you in ways that are consonant with your worldview, because you're generating them. This even extends to confrontational voices, like I used to have; if the voice argues with you, for example, then you just like arguing and tend to see things in a me-versus-them way. It's kind of like a continuous thought loop in the brain, and getting rid of it generally enhances your productivity and creativity because, like Void said, it's a giant time and energy drain. Even if you do get something productive out of it, like self-examination, it's still draining and distancing from reality, just like looping your thoughts about something you currently have no control over. And I'd be interested to hear from anyone who didn't have their voice spend most of the time either haranging them (usually) or unrealistically building up their self-image.

If the original poster is still reading, Void is (again) right, you have to try different things and see if they work for you. Art or sports or anything that makes you really focus to perform well will silence the internal dialogue temporarily, but usually I don't think it will do much about how strong it is in day-to-day activity. For me, breathing meditation was a good first step because it took me to a slightly altered and recognizable place that was instantly destroyed as soon as a dialogue started up. This made it easy to notice my thinking and allowed me to build up concentration power. But personally I found that doing a lot of breathing meditation led to an inclination to spend a lot of my time sitting and breathing and spacing. Then, with my improved focus, I moved on to awareness meditation, which allowed me to really see the looping and splitting thought structures for what they were, notice when I was getting dragged off by them, and see how addicted to them I was (I also created many complete fantasy worlds in middle school, like one of the previous posters mentioned). The more I understood how they were working in my system, the less they came up.

I still think plenty, it's just that there is little energy wasting dialogue and my awareness is no longer centered in my thoughts but rather more deep and expansive spaces. But this whole perspective would be impossible to describe to myself 5 years ago, when I was totally dominated in thought.

It's almost certainly necessary to kill off most of that internal dialogue before engaging in any highly directed spiritual practice, so that you can gain some level of menal clarity and stability. Unfortunately, I think a lot of eastern tradition practitioners take this too far and spend all their time off in mantra/breathing states, trying to block off all thoughts rather than just clear up their thought processes. Which of course is unnatural and impossible, and produces personality-less "zen-bots."

 

[Void]

It's almost certainly necessary to kill off most of that internal dialogue before engaging in any highly directed spiritual practice, so that you can gain some level of menal clarity and stability. Unfortunately, I think a lot of eastern tradition practitioners take this too far and spend all their time off in mantra/breathing states, trying to block off all thoughts rather than just clear up their thought processes. Which of course is unnatural and impossible, and produces personality-less "zen-bots."

It doesnt matter what you do, anything can get you there, but the problem is to keep focused on the goal rather then the path. These days I think you need to take from many different paths to build up a large quanity of methods to help you let go, or just let go. The latter is hard cause most people want to entertain themselves with a beging, middle and end, and not just accept that they have the possibility already. Though I know from personal experience that a completely silent and still mind does go hand in hand with a highly charged spiritual state, and you still think during it. You have mental processes, but they are at a deeper level, coming more from the center of your being. Anyway, I think this is about all I can say on the subject other then to go experience it and find out for yourself.