Stimulants Stimulating herbs

[plumbus-nine]

Besides the obvious caffeine and ephedra - does something comparable or better than ephedra exist? I'm getting readily nervous and slightly anxiously restless from just 1 cup of coffee, react good to little amounts of meth but don't have any and looking for something herbal (tea doesn't really help, it's similar to coffee for me).. Thanks

 

[4meSM]

Coca leaves or khat.
But for real, what are you looking for? Wakefulness? Motivation? Mood boost? Euphoria?
No herb is going to make you feel as good as a low dose of meth (at least IME), so if you're looking for something pretty similar than the odds are against you.

Have you tried white tea? It's stimulating but smoother than black tea. There are other caffeine sources that feel less jittery than coffee, like yerba mate.
Maybe something like ginseng, or cacao beans/powder.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Yeah, coca leaves are high on my list but I can (yet?) only source them dried. At least whole, so should contain all alkaloids. Once I stumbled upon a few mate de coca tea bags, and didn't really feel anything but they might have been very old.

I'm not looking for a meth replacement, I only mentioned it to say that I'm not generally overly sensitive to stims but to caffeine..
Guess I'm longing for energy ... would have described it as euphoria in past but currently I'm using kratom which certainly is able to give euphoria but not an usable sort of.. I became very lethargic from long term morphine and SNRI use, currently kicking the morphine with kratom and want something to get over the time until my body adjusts ...

Do you actually feel (high dose?) ginseng?
Remembered rhodiola rosea, that was heavily pushy but just once, next day nothing.

Are harmala alkaloids usable for energy? (Yeah, dangerous together with venlafaxine. Would skip it for first try and then titrate carefully.)

@4meSM wasp spray - the meth? xD

 

[negrogesic]

Rhodiola rosea is pretty stimulating.

 

[burn out]

Yerba mate. Ginseng you can definitely feel.

 

[4meSM]

Yeah, coca leaves are high on my list but I can (yet?) only source them dried. At least whole, so should contain all alkaloids. Once I stumbled upon a few mate de coca tea bags, and didn't really feel anything but they might have been very old.

I'm not looking for a meth replacement, I only mentioned it to say that I'm not generally overly sensitive to stims but to caffeine..
Guess I'm longing for energy ... would have described it as euphoria in past but currently I'm using kratom which certainly is able to give euphoria but not an usable sort of.. I became very lethargic from long term morphine and SNRI use, currently kicking the morphine with kratom and want something to get over the time until my body adjusts ...

Do you actually feel (high dose?) ginseng?
Remembered rhodiola rosea, that was heavily pushy but just once, next day nothing.

Are harmala alkaloids usable for energy? (Yeah, dangerous together with venlafaxine. Would skip it for first try and then titrate carefully.)

@4meSM wasp spray - the meth? xD

Yeah ginseng contains terpenoid derivatives called ginsenosides, they have multiple pharmacological activities. Some are stimulants while others have anxiolytic properties (More info here).

Regarding rhodiola, I've heard good things about it, it's often described as an adaptogen. I used to take it a few years ago but stopped because I didn't feel anything whatsoever, maybe my dose was too low.
I think you'll just have to try a few things until you find something that works for you.

And yeah don't take harmala if you're on venlafaxine... Skipping a dose wouldn't be enough, I'd be best to wait at least a week (if not a couple of weeks) after your last dose of venlafaxine. I don't think harmala alkaloids are what you're looking for though.

One of the best things to do while quitting morphine/opiates is to start excercising regularly. It might seem very hard at first but physical activity will really speed-up your recovery process and it'll make you feel much better (and more energized).

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

Tongkat Ali has been helpful for me at times. Seems to give me a little more motivation throughout the day without feeling much anxiety. No euphoria though or any type of high. Has been helpful in keeping up regular exercise even during times when I was tapering opioid and would normally feel too blah to exercise

 

[plumbus-nine]

And yeah don't take harmala if you're on venlafaxine... Skipping a dose wouldn't be enough, I'd be best to wait at least a week (if not a couple of weeks) after your last dose of venlafaxine. I don't think harmala alkaloids are what you're looking for though.

I've done MAOI + SNDRA before, it was very fun (and very dangerous of course, but afaik all the fatalities were from accidentally co-ingesting pills / usual amounts of drugs and not when titrated carefully). Also took low dose (75mg) venlafaxine on the day after to counter the fatigue - never ever do that but me it didn't hurt. Must have a tolerance to serotonin like a horse to K ... :/ unfortunately. Didn't measure blood pressure tho.
Also tried moclobemide (600ng) + d-amphetamine - this is a BAD combo, it increased my pressure by around 30, took 150mcg clonidine and back to normal.

Won't be able to source coca for the next weeks at least
But for now, coffee + loads of kratom fulfills all I need for now. It's actually better than morphine (oral) ever was ...

Might give ginseng a try then, will have to read more ... tongkat ali, interesting, thanks

Edit: How about low dose iboga/ibogain? It was sold as stimulant and antidepressant in France long ago ... once I filled a capsule (guess 00, the biggest ones) with rootbark and took it, awaiting NMDA antagonist like effects but it was a very strange dysphoria version of DXM w/o the dissociation coming in waves. But had ungodly tolerance to dissos back then and at least some O-PCM in my system.

Also how about the real ephedra plant? Should be able to get some. Will it help with fatigue on morphine w/d or worsen all? Afaik much of the symptoms, runny nose, chills, etc. are coming from sympathic over-activation and clonidine effectively counters them but at the same time makes very tired. So maybe clonidine + ephedrine?

 

[Tryptamite]

Clonidine and ephedra (ephedrine, pseudoephedrine, methylephedrine and IIRC phenylpropanolamine)
Might be dangerous to use together. I'm really not sure. I would check it out or wait for another member more versed in clonidine to chime in.

 

[Gaffy]

Have you already tried gun powder ? It's extremely strong tes out if china. Vert hard to find, but it's worth a try

 

[Tryptamite]

What is gun powder?

 

[gojmay]

Caffeine and L theanine

 

[Tryptamite]

They aren't exactly herbal though are they. I mean possibly available through green tea delivery system herbalised

 

[plumbus-nine]

Caffeine makes me more nervous than stimulated, at least it's nonpredictable. Sometimes coffee works, sometimes not. L-theanine had absolutely zero effects even in extremely high doses, and I've purchased from two different sources to be sure - consistency, taste and non-activity were shared among these two samples. Learned that it might be an NMDA receptor activity enhancer, and I've got already too many of these little nasties ...

Coca leaves are tempting and cheap even available from a big online market here but I'm somewhat hesitant as afaik they're technically illegal. Well, recently saw a peyote/marijuana mix on the local market, I'll ask them if peyote alone is available too, to try microdosing. I don't tolerate THC unfortunately.

Schisandra chinensis (another adaptogen) is available but just too expensive. Still need to find rhodiola.
Ginseng also does absolutely zero for me, as does the "miracle fruit" noni which accordingly to pubmed contains a MAO-I. And for fucks sake I've drunken half a litre of noni juce. Nothing.

Any experiences with horny goat weed, maca root, microdosing peyote or iboga?

 

[Gaffy]

I once read that Purple grass (wheat liké) contained tryptamines

 

[emkee_reinvented]

I once read that Purple grass (wheat liké) contained tryptamines

Phalaris Arundinacea?

For the Caffein I would use Guarana. It is imo the strongest Xanthine around with the best balance.

Other Ephedra or fresh Khat.

 

[Neuroborean]

Phalaris Arundinacea?

For the Caffein I would use Guarana. It is imo the strongest Xanthine around with the best balance.

Other Ephedra or fresh Khat.

Didn't try guaraná, but cola nitida (kola nut) it's a good source xanthine energy, more potent (but perhaps less interesting) than ilex guayusa or ilex paraguensis (yerba mate).

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Didn't try guaraná, but cola nitida (kola nut) it's a good source xanthine energy, more potent (but perhaps less interesting) than ilex guayusa or ilex paraguensis (yerba mate).

One time in Paris in a African supermarket the fresh nuts were sold. The looked like organs and were pink reddish on the inside.

They were hard to chew and very astringent but did provide a clean Caffein boost. Different then Guarana but they shared the gradual decline. It also seemed to have a cooling effect, the temprature was quit hot at that time.

Paris is btw a very nice city to visit not only for the nuts.

But fresh Khat for the time being is my nr 1. Active substance Catinone.

 

[Neuroborean]

One time in Paris in a African supermarket the fresh nuts were sold. The looked like organs and were pink reddish on the inside.

They were hard to chew and very astringent but did provide a clean Caffein boost. Different then Guarana but they shared the gradual decline. It also seemed to have a cooling effect, the temprature was quit hot at that time.

Paris is btw a very nice city to visit not only for the nuts.

But fresh Khat for the time being is my nr 1. Active substance Catinone.

Yeah, I'm about to get some khat seeds, I hope I will be able to grow them...

 

[Neuroborean]

Besides the obvious caffeine and ephedra - does something comparable or better than ephedra exist? I'm getting readily nervous and slightly anxiously restless from just 1 cup of coffee, react good to little amounts of meth but don't have any and looking for something herbal (tea doesn't really help, it's similar to coffee for me).. Thanks

There's a plant (than I'm growing currently for the first time btw...) called Bala, Sida Cordifolia as its scientific name, seems to have different compounts, not only ephedrine, but has significant amounts of pseudo-ephedrine and ephedrine.
Maybe it's not "better" than ephedra in terms of getting the pure ephedrine feeling, since the % by weight is lower and it's mixed with other stuff, but I've read that can work with the proper dosage and specially when a good extraction is done.