• H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist | cdin | Lil'LinaptkSix

Recovery Should I go on Suboxone?

I get this. There is def a stigma attached even though those looking down their noses are often "dirtier" than we and are following a socially accepted way of hiding their own faults to make themselve feel superior in some way. At the end of the day, though, this is self destructive to these hypocrites.
I would imagine that anything we use to cover our problems are temporary fixes and will only last for so long. Speaking on the lasting effects of say bupre that may only help for a year or whatever. I actually started at .5g kratom 4 times a day. After 4 years or so I am at 2g 5-6 times a day. Just an example....
Hope we all get right eventually.
Peace
You maintain good dose ma friend.staybon that level..or if you wanna fully quit you will do it.sure of that.ifbusedbproperly kratom couldvbe of great use.Addictive,but for little potentialbof heavy missuse-kratom.safe.wouldbbe glad to see these on shelves or even like schedule 3
 
You maintain good dose ma friend.staybon that level..or if you wanna fully quit you will do it.sure of that.ifbusedbproperly kratom couldvbe of great use.Addictive,but for little potentialbof heavy missuse-kratom.safe.wouldbbe glad to see these on shelves or even like schedule 3
You okay Nas?
 
Ye man.got few bad days.around summer solstitude....like every year.Thank you.To know somebody unknown thinks about you warms you inside:)Heart
 
Suboxone can be amazing for getting your life back in order, I'll give it that.


I've been on it over 5 years now & for me, it's almost impossible to get off of. And the good effects have gone down to absolutely nothing except feeling tired & lethargic every day. If I don't take the subs, I'll sweat like crazy & become very restless. But when I do take the subs, I'll feel slightly better & then just feel ready for bed the rest of the day. I think it's actually made my depression worse & I think it's also caused me hyperalgesia. I can't say for sure the subs did it, cause I also had mono as a teenager (which means I have epstein-barr virus living in me forever, which can cause cause chronic fatigue & cancer later in life). But I'm constantly in pain & aching. Feels like when you work out really hard & are sore for a couple days, except I feel that way all the time without even working out.

So definitely think long and hard about it. I'm not against suboxone or opioid maintenance therapy at all. In fact, I think we should have more choices than just suboxone. I won't even consider methadone because you basically have to give up your life & privacy to be on that one. But these super long acting ones, especially a partial agonist like bupe, really quit helping with much after a certain time being on them.
Since you’re familiar with subox. I was just prescribed subox 8mg/2mg 2 times a day and I feel I’m that that’s a really high dosage, I’m on day 3 of tapering from oxy 5mg that I was taking about 80mg a day off to now 2.5mg in the am 2.5 I’m the night combined with usually 3-4mg of xanax through out the day. I’m also taking vitamin c and a bunch of other supplements and Tylenol to help with the joint ached and paint for WD. I keep looking online and it says I can’t allot the subox tab only the film. But if I end up needing it I don’t want to do such a high dosage. I just need it until my oxy withdrawals are gone
 
Since you’re familiar with subox. I was just prescribed subox 8mg/2mg 2 times a day and I feel I’m that that’s a really high dosage, I’m on day 3 of tapering from oxy 5mg that I was taking about 80mg a day off to now 2.5mg in the am 2.5 I’m the night combined with usually 3-4mg of xanax through out the day. I’m also taking vitamin c and a bunch of other supplements and Tylenol to help with the joint ached and paint for WD. I keep looking online and it says I can’t cut the subox tab only the film. But if I end up needing it I don’t want to do such a high dosage. I just need it until my oxy withdrawals are gone, so can I or can it not cut the tabs in half to only take 4/1mg
Can’t cut ^*
 
Almost two moths has passed and I hope this dinds you well. :)
I cannot read a lot atm (no glasses) but was wondering if you ever decided to try the sub route. I have drcided against it main reason is I am not done trying it without the doctors fees, visits, being a guinne pig (sp) blah bla. I did give a lot of thought to it. And it still may be an option down the way a bit, idk.
How has life been treating you?
Crazy shit around here lately. Still workin on it, though.
Be easy and try to be as safe as possible?
Peace
 
Hey guys.

I've been into drugs since I can remember, trying everything from RC Benzos to Meth to Opium, Rolls, Younameit®, however I've always had an affinity for opioids.

To give you some background information, I come from a family with a history of addiction. Not my parents, but my grandparents on both sides as well as their grandparents. Since my parents never talked about it and were pretty much sober the entire time, it just wasn't something I worried about. Both my immediate and extended family -as well as myself- suffer from a heck of a lot of depression, anxiety, and suicidal behaviors. When I was quite young, I had extremely bad asthma and was hospitalized a number of times because of it. I was put on Singulair at the age of 9 and stayed on it throughout highschool and early college. We (doctors, parents, and myself included) did not know at the time that Singulair has around a 10% chance of drastically exacerbating depression and suicidal behavior in those that use it. So I spent a massive portion of my developmental years horribly depressed with multiple attempts at suicide. I just didn't know a life without depression -until DRUGS! Yay drugs!

I ended up getting involved in all sorts of procuring, distributing, and consuming whatever I could get my hands on. It gave me a sense of relief, a sense of excitement, a bunch of money, new "friends", etc... I never let my (ab)use really effect my work/school and excelled at both, graduating college early and becoming Head Chef of a snooty restaurant by 24. It was around that age that I began to feel the emptiness and dissatisfaction that stems from living a life constantly high. I still didn't realize that the addiction was the issue, I just kind of assumed a needed a big change because my life wasn't headed in a direction I was happy with.

So I packed up and moved to Thailand. I cold turkey quit everything (was on 60-90mg of morphine/day plus whatever stims, psychedelics, weed, oxys, or fent) and made the journey. I was living by myself for a brief period and was bored one day, so I decided to see what I could snag from local pharmacies -since things can slip through the cracks in a city like Bangkok. After trying about 9 different pharmacies, I came across one that I convinced to sell me Tramadol. Boom. Back on opiates. I rarely ever abused, abused the tramadol while I was there but I had it in my system on a daily basis for the next two years. While living there I got another degree, got a girlfriend, and was probably the happiest I've ever been. But it was all still under the guise of avoiding reality. I even got into meditation, exercise, and healthy eating, but I still relied on Tramadol to keep me in balance and not depressed.

When I moved back to the States I fell back in with my old crew and got right back into the same shit. I totally burnt myself out on MDA/MDMA to the point where the "magic" is just nonexistent. I then moved onto microdosing LSD regularly and felt great, preformed highly at my job, got a few promotions and the best money I'd ever made, and was still left unhappy. By this point, I could no longer enjoy L because my mind immediately went into this mathematical, cause-effect, problem-solving, work-mode whenever I took it.

I still felt unfulfilled and depressed, feeling like I had made zero positive momentum in the last few years and had wound up in the same place, doing the same shit, just spinning my wheels. So I sought out antidepressants. Without a doctor. I knew I had an affinity for opiates and was still in denial about my addiction, so when I found Tianeptine and read all the horror stories about people getting addicted and having to take massive doses and how coming off of it was way harder than quitting smack, I was like "maybe for you pussies but I'll be fine!". It didn't work out so well.

Tianeptine is hell. This is the first time I ever realized that I was addicted and that I had actually been addicted to having SOME substance in my body for years. Coming off of that shit was a nightmare. It took me about 2 years. I was able to come off of it with the help of Gabapentin and Tramadol. Then I became very addicted to tramadol. After about a year of that -all the while hiding this shit from my girlfriend that I lived with and my family members- I managed to get off of Tramadol and onto Kratom.

Kratom was great and helped me satisfy that craving for opioids while giving me energy and motivation to get things done. It gave me some anxiety, though, so I relied more heavily on Benzos (which had also been a part of my drug cocktails for the last 4 years). I also developed a decent addiction to Alcohol because everywhere I worked for the last 4-5 years I would get limitless free drinks. Then in the last 6 months, Cocaine became a much more frequent visitor.

Over the last 4 months, I have been really trying to stay clean, but fall into binges every now and then whenever I am tempted or just say "Fuck it!" when things get too hard.
Every day I wake up feeling hopeless. I have no desire to have hope. I have no motivation to keep going. I contemplate suicide on a daily basis but I know I won't do it because it would hurt my family too much. I have no desire to hurt anyone, myself included. I just don't have the desire to exist.

So after nearly 2 months of total sobriety I find myself back on Kratom and Alcohol which mitigate my symptoms of just wanting to die, but also don't at the same time. It's a fucking struggle to do anything. I should also mention that I am on 150mg Wellbutrin XL (bupropion) and 75mg Effexor (venlafaxine) daily.

Last week a friend of mine told me to try some of his Subs (buprenorphine/naloxone) and HOLY SHIT I FEEL LIKE A HUMAN AGAIN! I am motivated. I have energy. I am excited about the future and am working towards goals -I haven't had DESIRES in quite some fucking time, let alone GOALS. I'm only taking around 1.5mg/day (8mg strip cut into 16ths, taking 3/16ths) and I can see my depression and just choose not to succumb to it. I don't have any desire to take other opiates or to drink. I feel like I have control of my life for the first time in a long time.

But do I really? Or am I just trading one substance for another like I've done the majority of my life? Furthermore, there's a lot of bullshit that comes with getting prescribed Suboxone. You have your constant drug tests, mandatory meetings (which I really feel like I don't have time for), and you get a big red mark on your chart that says to every doctor, therapist, and clinician that, "Hey! I'm an addict!!". I have no idea how long -if ever- that would take to go away. I just know that right now I do feel better than I have in ages. I have done a lot of research on buprenorphine, naloxone, and naltrexone on opiate use disorder and on depression and it appears to be somewhat of a wonder drug. However I'm not without knowing that it, too is addictive and that the withdrawal symptoms, while potentially more acute, could last a lot longer than traditional opiates

So on that note...

TL;DR

I have a long history of drug use that began out of a desire to combat extreme depression with suicidal behavior. After a number of years of moving from one drug to the next and still feeling empty and suicidal, I tried Suboxone and it appears to work miracles. Is it worth it for me to seek it out and get it prescribed? Or am I better off barely managing my issues with antidepressants and self-medication of kratom and alcohol?

Thanks for taking the time to read, I appreciate any and all advice or insight.
Don't hesitate at all, because there is no better option for us from the "bottom". I spend years looking for some alternative (instead of being on painkillers 24/7 ) and tried almost all that's available (legally). At the beginning everything works a bit, but after that comes tolerance and depression. Suboxone literally saved my life, because I did not have strength to cope anymore. This was my last try and I didn't believe in all those stories about "miracle drug" that treats addiction, depression and chronic pain at the same time. Luckily I was wrong. First 4 weeks are the most important because you have to find the right dose. Or something close to it. I will never forget my first morning since I started Subs. I woke up and something was missing? Depression, pain and opioid craving were gone. After 15 years I felt "normal" again. Unbelievable! I won't tell you anything about the dosage, because we are all different. Your body will tell you how much is enough for you. It's not a perfect drug and have some side effects. Constipation, sweating, insomnia (if your dose is too weak)... But with time, many of them will disappear or at least improve. People say that Suboxone withdrawal it's not easy, but I don't care about that. Hopefully I will be on Subs for life. We are not swapping one addition to another. We are just taking life saving medication, as people with diabetes take Insulin. I don't want to tell you what to do, but this one is wort trying. You have nothing to lose. Good luck. ✌️
 
Better option than street drugs especially you are in U.S. or Canada with this shit fent analogues.For me way better than effects than methadone.Yes-AD properties of bupr. are real....but it is addiction.The best option for me is drugfree life.....and I am battling this shit for years . ...now feel ok on bupr.,but don't wanna take it more than a year and i am on this from last November.You know better than me,which is better for you
 
Better option than street drugs especially you are in U.S. or Canada with this shit fent analogues.For me way better than effects than methadone.Yes-AD properties of bupr. are real....but it is addiction.The best option for me is drugfree life.....and I am battling this shit for years . ...now feel ok on bupr.,but don't wanna take it more than a year and i am on this from last November.You know better than me,which is better for you
Maybe one day, my friend. If they find something better for depression?
 
I was like a lot of you.

When I first got on subs, I thought they were the answer to my depression, addiction, etc.. It was for awhile honestly. But, while it is a valuable drug, all these positive effects disappear once you've built up enough buprenorphine in your system. At least they did for me. Then you just end up depressed & stuck on an opioid that never satisfies you.
 
I was like a lot of you.

When I first got on subs, I thought they were the answer to my depression, addiction, etc.. It was for awhile honestly. But, while it is a valuable drug, all these positive effects disappear once you've built up enough buprenorphine in your system. At least they did for me. Then you just end up depressed & stuck on an opioid that never satisfies you.
Could you tell me how long before that happens and have you found the solution? I am also taking Lexapro (SSRI) in the morning (for several years) and have a feeling that it doesn't work anymore.
ps. Does the same thing happens with Sublocade as well?
 
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Could you tell me how long before that happens and have you found the solution? I am also taking Lexapro (SSRI) in the morning (for several years) and have a feeling that it doesn't work anymore.
ps. Does the same thing happens with Sublocade as well?
Yes, it would probably happen even faster with sublocade, because it's an implant that will only release it's designed amount of buprenorphine into your system every day. Meaning your body will get tolerant to it faster and you'll be unable to adjust your dose if needed. I think the implants are a trap to start getting people to 'accept' drugs that go INSIDE your body & can be controlled how THEY want it controlled.

This means you cannot go up or down on your dose, which means once you've been on it long enough you're gonna hit the ceiling effect & buprenorphine will no longer have any effects. Including the ones you need to help you stay sober or off other opioids.

I find that it took me about a year of various daily dosages before subs lost their magic. Even shitty tramadol kept it's magic for 10 years.


No real solution except staying away from Sublocade and sticking to lower doses & splitting them through out the day, even taking some breaks from it when you feel like you don't need it that day. And even then, I still get days where I crave heroin or any drug really, just to feel something different.
 
Thanks for your honesty, mate. It's not what I wanted to hear but I respect the people who are telling the truth. So basically, enjoy while on honeymoon with Suboxone and prepare for the rough times. Some people after a while switch to Sublocade. Is that a good idea and is the withdrawal easier from an injection? Or do you have some other alternative in mind?
 
Just found this fact in one medical journal:"Drug tolerance has not been seen with Suboxone or with either of the drugs it contains (buprenorphine or naloxone). When Suboxone is used long-term for opioid dependence, tolerance to the beneficial effects of Suboxone doesn't occur." I don't believe a word and always prefer the ordinary people's experience. But my Dr. told me the same thing. I know the guy for 20 years and he was always honest with me. What's the point of giving the patient a false hope?
 
Yes, it would probably happen even faster with sublocade, because it's an implant that will only release it's designed amount of buprenorphine into your system every day. Meaning your body will get tolerant to it faster and you'll be unable to adjust your dose if needed. I think the implants are a trap to start getting people to 'accept' drugs that go INSIDE your body & can be controlled how THEY want it controlled.

This means you cannot go up or down on your dose, which means once you've been on it long enough you're gonna hit the ceiling effect & buprenorphine will no longer have any effects. Including the ones you need to help you stay sober or off other opioids.

I find that it took me about a year of various daily dosages before subs lost their magic. Even shitty tramadol kept it's magic for 10 years.


No real solution except staying away from Sublocade and sticking to lower doses & splitting them through out the day, even taking some breaks from it when you feel like you don't need it that day. And even then, I still get days where I crave heroin or any drug really, just to feel something different.sublockade
I coul not switch on stuff like long acting depo injection like sublockade.sublingual method is superior but that's for me
 
Hey guys.

I've been into drugs since I can remember, trying everything from RC Benzos to Meth to Opium, Rolls, Younameit®, however I've always had an affinity for opioids.

To give you some background information, I come from a family with a history of addiction. Not my parents, but my grandparents on both sides as well as their grandparents. Since my parents never talked about it and were pretty much sober the entire time, it just wasn't something I worried about. Both my immediate and extended family -as well as myself- suffer from a heck of a lot of depression, anxiety, and suicidal behaviors. When I was quite young, I had extremely bad asthma and was hospitalized a number of times because of it. I was put on Singulair at the age of 9 and stayed on it throughout highschool and early college. We (doctors, parents, and myself included) did not know at the time that Singulair has around a 10% chance of drastically exacerbating depression and suicidal behavior in those that use it. So I spent a massive portion of my developmental years horribly depressed with multiple attempts at suicide. I just didn't know a life without depression -until DRUGS! Yay drugs!

I ended up getting involved in all sorts of procuring, distributing, and consuming whatever I could get my hands on. It gave me a sense of relief, a sense of excitement, a bunch of money, new "friends", etc... I never let my (ab)use really effect my work/school and excelled at both, graduating college early and becoming Head Chef of a snooty restaurant by 24. It was around that age that I began to feel the emptiness and dissatisfaction that stems from living a life constantly high. I still didn't realize that the addiction was the issue, I just kind of assumed a needed a big change because my life wasn't headed in a direction I was happy with.

So I packed up and moved to Thailand. I cold turkey quit everything (was on 60-90mg of morphine/day plus whatever stims, psychedelics, weed, oxys, or fent) and made the journey. I was living by myself for a brief period and was bored one day, so I decided to see what I could snag from local pharmacies -since things can slip through the cracks in a city like Bangkok. After trying about 9 different pharmacies, I came across one that I convinced to sell me Tramadol. Boom. Back on opiates. I rarely ever abused, abused the tramadol while I was there but I had it in my system on a daily basis for the next two years. While living there I got another degree, got a girlfriend, and was probably the happiest I've ever been. But it was all still under the guise of avoiding reality. I even got into meditation, exercise, and healthy eating, but I still relied on Tramadol to keep me in balance and not depressed.

When I moved back to the States I fell back in with my old crew and got right back into the same shit. I totally burnt myself out on MDA/MDMA to the point where the "magic" is just nonexistent. I then moved onto microdosing LSD regularly and felt great, preformed highly at my job, got a few promotions and the best money I'd ever made, and was still left unhappy. By this point, I could no longer enjoy L because my mind immediately went into this mathematical, cause-effect, problem-solving, work-mode whenever I took it.

I still felt unfulfilled and depressed, feeling like I had made zero positive momentum in the last few years and had wound up in the same place, doing the same shit, just spinning my wheels. So I sought out antidepressants. Without a doctor. I knew I had an affinity for opiates and was still in denial about my addiction, so when I found Tianeptine and read all the horror stories about people getting addicted and having to take massive doses and how coming off of it was way harder than quitting smack, I was like "maybe for you pussies but I'll be fine!". It didn't work out so well.

Tianeptine is hell. This is the first time I ever realized that I was addicted and that I had actually been addicted to having SOME substance in my body for years. Coming off of that shit was a nightmare. It took me about 2 years. I was able to come off of it with the help of Gabapentin and Tramadol. Then I became very addicted to tramadol. After about a year of that -all the while hiding this shit from my girlfriend that I lived with and my family members- I managed to get off of Tramadol and onto Kratom.

Kratom was great and helped me satisfy that craving for opioids while giving me energy and motivation to get things done. It gave me some anxiety, though, so I relied more heavily on Benzos (which had also been a part of my drug cocktails for the last 4 years). I also developed a decent addiction to Alcohol because everywhere I worked for the last 4-5 years I would get limitless free drinks. Then in the last 6 months, Cocaine became a much more frequent visitor.

Over the last 4 months, I have been really trying to stay clean, but fall into binges every now and then whenever I am tempted or just say "Fuck it!" when things get too hard.
Every day I wake up feeling hopeless. I have no desire to have hope. I have no motivation to keep going. I contemplate suicide on a daily basis but I know I won't do it because it would hurt my family too much. I have no desire to hurt anyone, myself included. I just don't have the desire to exist.

So after nearly 2 months of total sobriety I find myself back on Kratom and Alcohol which mitigate my symptoms of just wanting to die, but also don't at the same time. It's a fucking struggle to do anything. I should also mention that I am on 150mg Wellbutrin XL (bupropion) and 75mg Effexor (venlafaxine) daily.

Last week a friend of mine told me to try some of his Subs (buprenorphine/naloxone) and HOLY SHIT I FEEL LIKE A HUMAN AGAIN! I am motivated. I have energy. I am excited about the future and am working towards goals -I haven't had DESIRES in quite some fucking time, let alone GOALS. I'm only taking around 1.5mg/day (8mg strip cut into 16ths, taking 3/16ths) and I can see my depression and just choose not to succumb to it. I don't have any desire to take other opiates or to drink. I feel like I have control of my life for the first time in a long time.

But do I really? Or am I just trading one substance for another like I've done the majority of my life? Furthermore, there's a lot of bullshit that comes with getting prescribed Suboxone. You have your constant drug tests, mandatory meetings (which I really feel like I don't have time for), and you get a big red mark on your chart that says to every doctor, therapist, and clinician that, "Hey! I'm an addict!!". I have no idea how long -if ever- that would take to go away. I just know that right now I do feel better than I have in ages. I have done a lot of research on buprenorphine, naloxone, and naltrexone on opiate use disorder and on depression and it appears to be somewhat of a wonder drug. However I'm not without knowing that it, too is addictive and that the withdrawal symptoms, while potentially more acute, could last a lot longer than traditional opiates

So on that note...

TL;DR

I have a long history of drug use that began out of a desire to combat extreme depression with suicidal behavior. After a number of years of moving from one drug to the next and still feeling empty and suicidal, I tried Suboxone and it appears to work miracles. Is it worth it for me to seek it out and get it prescribed? Or am I better off barely managing my issues with antidepressants and self-medication of kratom and alcohol?

Thanks for taking the time to read, I appreciate any and all advice or insight.
Look, sometimes substances work in surprising ways for us. If this does what the anti - depressants haven't managed to do, which is alleviate your suicidal depression, and enables you to function, you should fucking be on it.
 
Just found this fact in one medical journal:"Drug tolerance has not been seen with Suboxone or with either of the drugs it contains (buprenorphine or naloxone). When Suboxone is used long-term for opioid dependence, tolerance to the beneficial effects of Suboxone doesn't occur." I don't believe a word and always prefer the ordinary people's experience. But my Dr. told me the same thing. I know the guy for 20 years and he was always honest with me. What's the point of giving the patient a false hope?
I think that you would be alright on non high dose for a while.Tollerance is slow with bupr.-thatbis right too.More of maintance programs are more on this than methadone....cause it's safer being partial mu agonist and don't supress breathing significantly....some people got better results on methadone.It's individual
 
Just found this fact in one medical journal:"Drug tolerance has not been seen with Suboxone or with either of the drugs it contains (buprenorphine or naloxone). When Suboxone is used long-term for opioid dependence, tolerance to the beneficial effects of Suboxone doesn't occur." I don't believe a word and always prefer the ordinary people's experience. But my Dr. told me the same thing. I know the guy for 20 years and he was always honest with me. What's the point of giving the patient a false hope?
IMO it does lose it's beneficial effects or at least they dampen drastically the longer you are on it.

Tolerance to it does take awhile to come on & even to this day after 5 years, I still get a bit drowsy from it. So it obviously still does a little something, but none of the "mood lift" or craving satisfaction is there anymore. I can take 100mg of bupe (not serious, nobody do this plz lol) and still crave heroin. lol

As for alternatives, I'm not sure. Depends on what your objective is. Do you hate opioids & want to get away from them forever? Or are you some one who realizes they are going to need them one way or the other, possibly forever, like I do? If you're looking to get away from opioids, doing a quick taper is probably your best bet. Otherwise you'll just still be dependent on a highly potent opioid that gives you constipation & drowsiness but none of the actual "good" effects of opioids, unless you put a lot of time in between your dosing, which is difficult. Especially for an opioid addict to do.

That medical journal is definitely pulling your (ours) leg. lol There will always be "tolerance" to opioid drugs whether partial or full agonist, unfortunately.

Buprenorphine did stop a lot of my suicidal ideation. So I give it credit for that. It's not as effective now as it was back then, but I'd probably be worse off without bupe at this point. Or at least some other opioid.
 
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